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This is an ·Appalachian Oral History Project interview with
M
r. Perry Hicks of M
arion, North Carolina who is a retired mill
worker. He was interviewed by Sam Howie on December Jl, 1975.
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Some of the first things we need to know are thi ng s like where
you we re born.
Well, I was born in Haywood County in the extreme western part
of North Carolina, right inside of North Carolina. Our closest
neighbors we r e in Tennessee •••• back in the extreme western part,
near Pigeon River.
Pigeon Rive r?
I was raised on a company's land. My father paid $25 a y e ar,
standing rent, on the mountain f a rm. And he raised hogs, c a ttle
and livestock and he farmed. He raised wheat, corn, oats, rye,
irish potatoes. The land produced rye and oats in abundance,
and irish potatoes and cabbage and vegetables. But the corn made
about 15 bushels an acre, about 6 to 8 bushels of wheat per acre,
and about 20 bushels of rye, and about 20 or 25 bushels of oats.
And , I was raise d there and we had a three-month school. We went
to school through July, August and September, at an old sawmill
shanty. And my daddy left there when I was ab out 12 years oad and
went farther back in Haywood County to a big double-band sawmill.
He went there for the e x press reason to send me and my brother
to a six-mon th school. We was up to a pretty good size. About
the only thing I learned wa s how to hobo a railroad engin e in
old log[ ing trains. It 'd leav e there in the morning ab out the
time my daddy went to work.
I 'd get on it and go to the mountains
and come back in just ab o ut dinnertime and go to the house and
eat my dinner. I went back, I went back to the mountains •• I did
most of the ti me. The thing that got me out of heart about g oing
to school was that most of the students were stupid or dumb or
something o r d i dn't care about learni ng and the tead.her appointed
me to try to help them learn.
nd I went from seat to seat for
a week or two and I wasn't making any progr e ss. They weren't
learning, and the teacher would get on me ••• so I got out of heart
and quit . ' Then my daddy bought a farm in Madison County, moved
back there, and stayed til I reckon it was 1920. But in the
meantime I met my wife and me and her was married. I was 17 years
old, she wa s 16. That 's been 59 years ago .
What year we~e y ou born in?
I was born in 1899 and we decided to come to t h e cotton belt •••
here to M
arion and we come up there and I went to work in the mill.
What year wa s that?
That was 1919 that I went to work in the cotton mill.
Which mill was that? Was1 that in •••
That was Clinchfield.
Clin chfield?
It's Clinchfield. The one that you came by.
The bi e one?
And the mill run 12 hours a day. Of cours e , the day I worked was
10 hours , but the wheels and machinery they would stop at 12
hou rs.
I went to work in the card room for a dollar for 10
hours, got a dollar a day. I paid 45 cents per week for house
rent, for a three-room house.
W
as it a mill village then, that you lived in?
Yeah.
Clinchfield mill villa g e?
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Yeah, Cli n chfield village.
Did you have to live in the mill village to work in the mill?
No, you didn't have to but it was cheaper. They furnished the
house. It took 700 hands to run the two mills at that time. We
was up there, I don't remember how many years, several years
though. There was a man who come in here organized a union.
What years?
Two cotton mills.
Was that in 1929?
I guess it was. Yeah , it wa s. And oh, he got the East Marion
mill pretty well organi zed . The mill I was working in, they
never did go so str ong for the union. All of the bus i nesses in
M
arion was bitterly opposed to it.
To the union?
Yeah , to the union. And, of course, by me being nonunion, I
was let in the inside of wha t was going to happen. I was sworn
to secrecy not to tell anybody what I knowed about what was go i ng
to happen. But I knowed the union wasn ' t gping to win and I
knowed the unio~··· ah, the company was not going to accept it,
the people wasn t going to accept it. The town and the businesses
wasn't going to accept it. They were se ar ching all the time for
something that they could try the union organizer for, in the law.
Take a warrant for him ahd try him.
Do you remember his name?
Hoffman . And he went right on and closed the mill I was working
at for three weeks a nd they got ready to start it up and they told
us all where to get to, t o come in on a certa i n Mo nday morning .
And we went there, and I was the first person to get ther e th t
morning , me and my brother-in-law. We went up on a bank and the
union neve~ did see us. But when they began to gather in, to go
to work, the union people they was on the picket line, they had
the spies and they all came in there. And the union got to
singing hymns and inviting people t o come to the ••• to be saved,
t hat is come in and join the union. And th9 superintendent,
Henderson, he c a me in and when he went to open the gate, why some
of them caught his coattails and drug him backwards. So he said
ev e rybody go home.
o we all went home and in another week they
notified us to gather up one day again a t 12 o'clock at the company
office.
That was the superintendent's office?
Yeah, so that day we all come and there was number one, number
two mill and we wa s going to try to start up number two mill.
It was the b iggest mill.
nd of course the union was evtErywhere.
It was closed. h nd we got the ••• finally got the soldiers in
there. 'l bey pushed t h em back.
nd we got inside t h e lock.
W
ell, we had enough help to start the smaller mill.
o they took
us all ov e r to the smaller mill and we started up at 12 o'clock
that day. Then after that, it was all over with. They cut the
hours down at the mi l l. Of course all along they'd be.gun rais i ng
the wag es. And I had got up to piecework and I made 18 dollars
and 75 cents a we ek , five days and a half on piece work.
ow many hours a d ay?
W
ell, I worked 12 hours a day b e cau s e every hour I worked was more
money to me. They started t h e machi n e ry at 6 o 'clock in the
morning, but I was always on hand to start my ·ob. Then me and
somebody would work together, and he wo uld take my job am. his
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too while I was of f to l u nch. And I'd come back and watch h is
job and mine too and he would g o to luhch. So we never let our
machinery stop. I was running frames in the card room, and it
went on that way and after that was all over with, all blowed
away, they went to putting one, couldn't have one man, put t ing
two men on a ••• putting one man on the job two men had been
running. And it just kept getting worse and worse.
Was that after the strike in 1929?
Yeah.
~hat was after that?
Yeah.
nd then they ••• thing s got so bad through the Depression
and they cut us down to half a day at a time. I went of a
morning and worked u ntil twelve and so mebody would come in and
run my job in the afternoon. But I had a wife and at that time
five children and I couldn 1 t feed anyone on it. So I quit and
went into farming, and went to farming.
Do you remember what year that was? In the early JO's?
Yeah. The early JO's. And them people that was left up there,
they didn't have no way to get out. But I had connections with
that person who had some property. I was always pretty bad to
talk and get acquainted and find about people, make friends with
people. So I had connecti ons with a rich man who owned all this
land from here, I mean right where this house is, and he rented
me his farm a nd
farmed it for five years. At that time, the
cotton mills picked up again ••• still stretched out.
e called
it the stretch out.
I went back to work to get my old job and
I worked about five years. And I b ought a farm, southe ast of
this county ri ght down near the Burke P ounty, Rutherford County
line. W
ent down ther e and stayed for six years.
W a t community wa s that?
h
That's the Dysartsvill e Community. And after I sold out that
place down the re, my motive t h en was to work out Social Security.
Th en you cou ldn't carry Social Security if y u we ren't working
for the company , but they chang6d theJaw after a while.
nd
in the meantime, by work i ng in the cotton mill I took what they
call emphy sema, brownlung we called it. I was afraid to go back
in t h e cotton mills on account of that so I went to Drexel
Furnitu r e Company and went to work for them.
Wher e is that?
I t's up here in M
arion.
nd I worked there for 15 years. So I
worked in t he cot t on mills for 15 years, I farmed for 15 years,
and I worked for Drexel Furniture Company 15 years. I made
4 5 years u ntil I r e tir ed. Th e fir s t of this year will be 14
years after I retired. And as far a s the mountains is c oncerned,
where I wa s rais ed, people wore out their land.
ot to where it
wou ldn't produce. One other thing tha t I didn't mention that
i t g re w good was tobacco back in them mountains.
Wa s there a good market for it?
Yeah. Pe ople ma d e pret t y good money a t it. A lot of people, they
didn't when I was a ch i ld, but af ter I got up about grown, people
g ot into tobacco, raising tobacco and mad e more and more after
I left. W been in this county about, a b out 5~ , ~ea!!B . fhat's
e
wh en we left Ma dison County. I was r ai sed inMAi~~ & · County , and
my wife was raised in M
adison County. ~ hat's mountain counties
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and my daddy bought a farm in Madison County . Tha t 's how come
we were living in Madison County when me and her wa s marr ied.
And her father owned a farm a nd it was wore out when he g ot it,
and he ain't ever d one muc h to build it up. And after me and
her c om e here,her who le family come too, in about a yeBl'and lived
here.
Did they come to work in the mills?
Yeah . The y c me to work in the mi l ls.
I t was he a ven to them,
to work in the mills and draw a payday, however small. But to
have payday every week and they had about thr e e or four chi ldren
old enough to work i n the mill .
How old did you have to be before you could go to work in the mill?
W
ell, back when I was a child, they put c hildren in the mill that
was e i ght years old.
Eight years old?
igh t years old.
What did they have them doing?
They were work i ng in t h e spinning r o om, spinning, swe eping the
floor.
I knowed a man, he 1 s been dead about two or three year· s.
He told me he went in t he mill when he was eight y e a rs old, worke d
there until he retired. He was an overseer for a bout lS or 20
years. But when my wife's p eople came here y ou h a d to be 14,
a ch i ld h a d to be 14 years old. You had to prove your a ge.
That wo u ld have been during the 2o•: s?
Yeah . And then they got it up ••• Yeah, then I think they fina l ly
got it up after I left there to where you had to be 16 before
they let t hem work in the mills. But when I first come to the
cotton mill with my brothers and sisters working i n there a nd
have little children, brothers and sisters, and the y'd take them
in there six, eight and ten years old and help to run. Anybody
going · n the cotton mill worked. ~ here wasn't nothing to it.
Did they pay, was th ere a pa y di ff erence for young •••
Yeah , you had to start off with the smallest wage and after you got
to where you cou ld run piece work, of course,you g ot a raise. Paid
better .
'pinners h a d to h a ve p iece work, we was in piece work and
carders had to h ave piece work.
hen they had day labor too. Hut
the day labor never did work but ten hours. They let them off,
they went to work at seven , let them off an hour lunch, and they
quit at six that evening.
iece workers, naturally, they would go
mor e hours a nd then of course I was y oung, pretty ambitious a nd
with family to support and I liked to get two hours more because
I made more. But they f :!. nally-I'm gett i ng a ll this mixed up-they f l nal ly got a case against the union or ganizer. 'l' oo k h im
to court. Tried him and he got a fine.
• urned him loose, he
r
went on down t h e coun t ry somewhere , I for g et where he went to,
went to organiz i ng down ther ~ and they got a case against him and
they came to Mari on to l nvesti r at e wha t went on ab out him around
here. And I don 't know exactly wha t the y ever did do with him.
But he t old them he organized Kingsp ort, Tennes s ee, that he was
over there or ganiz i ng, working on a union, to raise a union .
ell,
so me of the strikers here, to be sure,
they went over th e re to
check on him . They said that when they got there, the re was the
roughest looking man they ever saw with two .45 pistols walk ing
arou nd the gate , keeping the gate . Said they asked him had the mill
ever been uni onized and said he went to cus sing , said no, it
hadn't be e n organi 7.ed. ' hey run all the unions off. well, they
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run the most of them off here.
hey was defeated.
(inaudib le)
••• frie nds that hadn't jo i ned to beg for them and get them
(inaudible) ••• But naturally, I have, all of my l i fe, been opposed
to t he uni o ns.
I think, now this is just my opinion, I may be
100 percent wrong, but I believe the unions is the thing that
caused us to have the most troubles (i naudible) •• I think they
are what is causing 1.us to have high prices now.
Because when
they organize where they have to pay u~i o n wages, they have to
p a y s o much to pr0duce the stuff then they must let prices rise
to come out on it.
hen the poor class of people, people on
ocial Security l i ke me a n d my wife, we h a ve to pinch pennies,
to g et by. Buy only stuff t ha t's necessary. Of course, back
in the Depressi on, during the JO's and late 20's, there were people
who wer e out of work and strugg led to fesi their famili es .
nd
a 24-pound of flour about 65 cents, five pounds of su gar 25 cents,
a pound of coffee 15, all suc h as that. In the Depression when
th er e wa sn't so much union ••• ow, the people that have to pay the
union wages, to g e t t h eir stuff produced have to have a big price
on it to come out. And I guess the uni ons have done s orr.e good
but I th ink it's done more dama ge than any k i. nd of good, taki ng
all around. And I 've alwa ys been opposed to it and I guess I
always will be. I 've had some people, some v e ry close friends
belong. I n f a ct, some of my close relatives lost their jobs
up her e on ac c ount of uni on. ~ hey hired so me back but some had
to le ave. That's about all now,unless you want to ask questions.
You can ask questions about anythi n g you want to. I ' l l do my
b est to answer them.
You we re sayi ng awhile ag o that one of the reasons you all c ame to
M
arion was because the farming wasn't all that good. Now, did
you, your father owned the farm in M
adison County but you said
something about the soil th ere had been leached out, wouldn't
grow very well. Could you have had part of that f arm yourself?
No; there wasn't enough of it. There was just fifty acres.
How many brothers did you have?
I just had one •
Just one brother?
Only one of us could have l i ved on half of it.
I t j ust wouldn ' t produce?
No . It took the whole farm of fifty acres because it had been
cleared up , mostly cleared up and worn out before my father
bought it. M wife and father and mother, they had eight
y
c hildren when the y left there. He owned fifty acres, and his
land was wore out. Most of it washed away up there in the
mountains.
It was steep cou ntry?
Yeah . It was pretty straight up there •
Is there any way to estimate what, say, it was possible to
e a rn off of a farm of tha t size then?
Well, you t ake a farm of tha t size, my f a ther was selling
livestock and didn't mak e any grain to sell on that small place.
Now, he did where I was raised, where he had so much land. But
about, I 'd say about six hundred dollars a year was about wha t
he got out of his livestock he had for sale. Of course, the
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living , he had his l i ving made there, he made it there. Didn't
hav e to buy gr oceries or anything like that. About all the
money he got was clea r to stick in his pocket, clear. 'Cause he
made all his seed and in summertime he had pasture to run on.
As far as having any money and investing it, why wit h out he
too k a notion to buy so methi ng, he didn't have any at all. It
was all cle a r. When I was a child on the farm, I was raised
on, company land. I seen him in t h e fall of the year when lie'd
sold his livestock, and wha t stuff he raised on his farm for
sale, I ' ve known him sticking that money i n his pocket and going
out over the country want i ng so mebody to loan it to. He didn't
need it, didn't want it, didn't want to carry it. He got about
six percent intere s t on it and he felt safer of course when he
wasn't ca rryi n g it i n his p ocket. He just didn't want to carr y
it arou nd. Go out and hunt somebod y to loan it to, and sometimes
it was hard to do •••
Wasn't as much use for money then as ther e is or was later on,
was there?
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There wasn't mu ch you had to buy •
The only person who would borrow it was somebody who wanted to
add nore livestock. And of course, in them days, livestock all
run outside, in the mountains, fenced up your fields. ~ ow in
the mountain s it was ready to be put on the market in the
fall. It got fat and was ready for t h e market . He just brought
it off the r a nge and put it right on the market. An:i a year or
two year-old •••
.Al,.
End of tape #1, side 1
Beginning of side 2
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Your father owned tha t farm free and clear?
Yeah , the last p lace. I n fact, that ' s the only p lace he ever
owned.
In M
adison County?
Yeah . He finally sold it out and came her e to Mari on too.
So your family and your wife's family came to M
arion?
Yeah.
Did they come for the expressed purpose of working in the mills?
W
orki ng in the cot t on mills.
So you all pretty much figured it was, that staying on the farm
of that size was not going to bring you suf f icient income to raise
a family.
Wel l , that wasn't my father's c oncern. He wasn't worrying about
the income he made, he made as much money as he cared about.
He wanted to get rid of the harder work. Working l n the cotton
mill was not as hard work as running one of them mount ain farms.
Of course, me and my brother wa s married. Just him and my
mother we re living on the farm. He ca me here to work in the mill.
Him and my mother both worked. M mother didn 't work too much
y
but she worked some. He sold out. He give ~35 0 for the place
he owned. The feller except ed the timber but he had in the
trade to saw him house timber. And he built a house out of
great big boards, built a barn, cleared some land, built some
fence. Kept it I don't know for how many years and he sold it
for $2200. Aft er he comehere , a ft e r we all come here, he divided
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that $2200 with me and my brother, give me $1100 and give my
brother $1100 .
Of course, you take the mountain people who
learn to do what they do themselves and lea rn how to do wi thout.
And he saved money all the time,he laid money back all the time.
Not much, but some that after a year or so it began to count up.
He got enough money saved that he bought that place right across
the road there where that house stood. He stared there for 12
or 15 years, I guess. When he retired,he got $ 22 a month and
mother drawed off ofhim and she got half as much.
'he got $ 11.
Both together got like $33 . Well , they laid away some of that
every month, some of that $33 because they made everything we
e a t r ight over there .
This wasn't built up out in here as it is. It's farm country.
There was one build i ng right out here, that house, and one out
here on top of the hill. That 's all there was, just there at the
top of the hill up yonder plumb down to Ne bo. Uns e ttled.
How did you learn that the mil ls we re here?
Well , I had friends tha t had left there and c orre here and worked.
They came back home.
vid they leave for the same reasons?
Yeah , for the reasons coming to the co tton mill to work.
When they came back home andyou learned from them, they were just
visiting?
Yes. I n fact, when me and my wife moved here there was a young
man that we knowed had been h e re and worked and he came back with
us. In 1918, when that awful flu ep:t.demic come in here. W was
e
here at c1·nchfield, and we had one ch i ld less than a year old
who had flu.
('Wife speaks) No, we all had the flu and it looked •••
(Hicks r e sumes) No, it looked like it was going to be so long
b e fore I could even get back to work, well, I had a little home •••
so we went back there and stayed a year and then come back. (wife
speaks) Then we c ome back to the cotton mills .
That would have been in the early 20 1 s?
(wife) Yeah , the la st time we come back.
And you came back th a t time to stay?
Yeah.
1e been here ever since.
I n this country, but not whe r e
we'r e living. Here in McDowell County.
The people who we re working in the mills during the early 20 1 s
after you all came back, came h e re the second time, were they
from McDowell County?
No . M
ost of the people in M
cDowell County wouldn't work in •••
might few people from McDowell County that would work in the
cot ton mills at all.
Only a few people?
Mighty few.
It was a disgrace for people in this county t o
work in a cot t on mill .
I t was made up of mountain people. (wife
speaks) That 's all it was •• ( inau d ible) (Hicks resumes) M
adison,
Haywood , Mitchell, Yancey, Avery , Watauga countie s.
ost of
the people that wo~ked here was from Haywood County where I come
f rom.
M
ost of the people i n Clinchfield?
Yeah .
Some people would get maybe in debt back at home. Th ey
had a home, but they'd get in debt and couldn't ••• an:l they'd
come here, their whole f amily, go to work until they paid that debt.
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When they paid t h is debt, they'd take off back home.
Is it your fe e ling that the people that came here from the other
counties to work in the mills came for the reasons you've said.
That is, it was either impossible or hard to make a good living
on the farm?
Yeah .
And the reason they came here was because they might find work
a little easier and there was some more money?
Yeah. In the end of the year, you co 1ld make more money up
here in a cotton mill than you would out on the farm. But
people lived hard. The houses were cheap. The house we l ived
in, y ou co ld set in the house and see daylight almo yt anywhere
you looked.
W s that the mill house?
a
That was the mill h ous e . They'd have people ••• they finally at
last sold them to the hands . Most all the houses repaired (inaudible)
nd what did you pay for rent?
45 cents a week for a three-room house.
nd wh en you first started in the mills, y ou were making somewhere
near $10 a week?
Yeah, around that.
When people in, say, ~ adison County were looking around for
something to do other than stay on the farm, wha t else could they
have done, say, besides stay there or come to the mi l ls? Wa s
there a lot of timbering back then?
No , not then. When people began to c ome to the mills,the timber
business was ove r with. Peop le had log , ed out all. the timber.
What was the name of the comp any that owned all the farm where
you were born? W
as it a lumber company?
No, it was just a big land company. Uptogo (?) I believe was
the name of the company a nd then the Boise Hardwood Lumb e r Company
finally bought the whole mountain.
Boise?
Yeah, Boise Hardwood Lumber Company .
nd they built a narrowguage railroad up in them mountains and set their band mill at
Hartford , Tennessee.
ell, they were working on that when I
left. Of course, I could have went to work for them but it was
a little too rough, for me. I went down there and helped t h em clean
off the ri ght of way for the railroad up Pigeon River. That was
after me and my wife got married . And of course one thing that
bluffed me out on it, everythin g in the whole country c ame in
ther e to work.
On that railroad?
Yeah . Cutting timber and logg ing . Drunkards, murderers, everything
else .
I t wasn't no fit place I felt like to raise a family.
And , I help ed clean off the right of way on Pigeon tliver. I-40
goes down through there.
(wife speaks ) Where he was raised, now
it's a game pres e rve.
vhat' s the name of it? (Hi cks resumes)
Yeah , in orth Carolina and part in Tennessee . Have y ou ever
be en down I - 40?
Yes sir. I know a fellow who lives out at t h e foot of l t.
J;'.isgah. He 's out on the Pigeon River . Clark's his name (inaudible).
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rr you went down I - 40, do you kn ow that W
alters (?) dam, that
dammed up P igeon River?
uns the water through the moun ta _ns
and comes out at 1v'a terville? 'r o a powerhouse?
I know wher e the river's down below I - 40 there. But I don't
remember it .
Well , I don't guess you've ever noticed ••• (wife speaks) Did you
see the powerhouse when you ••• ? (Hicks resu mes) W
ell, back up
t h is way there's a sign up there tm.t says the Harmon Den , on
a post .
I remember t hat .
Well , right there, just a lit t le piece up that creek was wher e I
was barned an d raised .
That is up and down country , isn ' t it?
Yeah .
Good bit steeper t h an around here?
I've t o ok peop le down through there and told them I helped clear
off that right of way . The~ say I don ' t see how you stood up
on that hill . And I could n t now of course , but I could then ,
when I was a young man .
hey say people had one leg shorter than the other so they could
stand on the ~ide of a hill .
(pause) You said that when you came
here you d i dn t h a ve to live in the mill village?
No . You didn ' t ha re to but it was cheaper . And ther e weren ' t too
many houses for rent other than in the mill village . or course ,
the cotton mill company wanted you to live in their houses .
But you didn;t have to?
No, you didn t have to •
Did y ou have - to at East arion?
No , you didn't exactly have to but they were the same way . They
wanted them to live in them .
(wife sp ea ks) They h ad bet t er houses
at East 1arion .
They did?
(Hicks) ~eah .
When you start e d out you were working ten hours a day, ri v e and
one - h a lf days a week . Did that chang e much during the 20 1 s?
At some point i n there you went to a 12- h our day .
Ye ah . It changed a lot , now . or course,
think t he.y start up
n ow and run maybe ten hours and the day labor works eight .
But ,
when I was runni ng frames on piece work , in the number two mill ,
it's the biggest mill, the one next to th e highway, there were
23 frame hands in th u t card room to maJ.re roping to make thread
for yarn spinning . And they put in new machinery, bi gge r machinery ,
and the last time I was talk i ng to people that lived and was
work i ng there , they got three hands doing what us 23 done .
· 'hat is a stretch out isn't it?
Yeah, that's a s t retch out .
Did you start out working as ai. carder?
Yeah , I went to runni~cards .
What s being a carder? What does that mean?
Well; that's where the raw c otton comes and you start it into
roping, about the size ofyour finger . It first comes to the
lap room . They make it into big round laps , runs through two
machi nes im there .
nd they take a lot of the waste out of it .
And they make big laps and br i ng it in there and hang it on the
backs or card s . And when the laps run out we laid it down on
a roller , stuck the end of it i n there and it would conB through .
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And we carded it and took a lot more waste out of it. and
made that roping . Then we took that roping in cans to the
drawing f r ames . Them drawing frames, they run it through two
mach i nes there, front d r awing and bac k d.J:rawing. Then it went
from there to what they called slubbers, gre a t bi g heavy work.
That was the first piece work I ever did, running slubb ers.
Then it went to the intermediates. Tha t wa s the job I run the
most .
nd they took the slubb e rs ••• (inaudible). Then we run
it through them interme d iat e s a nd it cut it down to about fourth
of tha t size. But we had to run two spools of cotton togethe r.
That is , t~ of the same size. Then it went from there to tre
spe eders.
nd th ey had to run two together there . And tha t
cut it down to a smaller thread .
nd a stouter thread. fhen it
went from th e re t o th e spinning room and the y respun it on
spinning reels. l n the spinning room. Then it went from the
spinning room into t h e weav e shop .
Did y ou ever work in weaving?
Yeah , I worked in weaving one ti e. First time I ev e r come
her e I worked in the weave roo m.
Did Clinchfield do any finishing then? Or print ing?
No, they d i dn't do any fin ishing. Just white cloth •
Did East ari on?
Yeah . They finished cloth ov e r there.
(wife sp e aks) They do
now. I don't know whether the y used to ••• (Hicks resumes)
They didn 't the n , when I was working in the mill, but the y do now.
They make rayon and use man - made f i b e r over there.
Let me ask you a question about the mills . Was it possible to
move up in a job? Like to be a boss or foreman or something?
W s that pr etty easy or were there so many people that it w s
a
hard to do?
No, it wasn' t hard to do . It was easy to bu i ld up to it. I
built up to that and wo uldn't take the job . Because I didn't
feel like I could put up with the agg ravating help . I was pretty
high -tempered . I knowed ~ e andthem was go i ng to have trouble,
becau se t hey failed to do wha t they were suppos ed to do.
ow
when the bosses got on them, they'd argue back and they just
wouldn't fire anybod y . About the only way they'd fire anybody
was on account of bad char ct e r. I f he t u rned ou t to hav~ a
bad character, why they ' d f ire him right on the spot.
But doing bad work, they wouldn't necessarily fire •••
They wouldn't fire you for that. They'd c o me around and raise
sand with y ou, but they wouldn't fire you for it.
We re there plenty of jobs? W
as there lots of people tryi n g to
get in the mills then or was the re just a few jobs open?
No. There was plenty of jobs. And a lot of peop le co me and
there was h a rdly a n ybody come tha t didn't g e t a job. They
was always ne eding help.
'l 'hat was du r ing the 20 1 s ?
Yeah, because tha t was wh en t h e people wa s coming out of the
mou ntains and off of the fa r ms and they s oon got dissatis f ied
and went back home .
Did a lot o f that happen? Lot of t h em come in, they 'd work
a nd then they went back home?
Yeah , they'd go back home and usually after they went back home
and stayed a year, year and a half, two years , t hey'd come back.
And pr ob ably stay the rest of th e ir lives th a t time.
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Why did they go back to the farms i n the first place?
W
ell, because they'd got dissatisfied . Dissatisfied with
the mills . (wife speaks) Some of them would come to work out
money to buy more land with, or improve their land some .
Oh , the y 'd come and get more money to buy a bigger farm?
(Hicks resumes) Yeah . But them that did that, usually when
they went back home, they stayed .
But the ones that did come
because they kinda got tired of farm ng , in fact young people,
children, th ey all had to leav e the home to get a job.
Why wa.s that?
W
ell , there weren't a ny jobs there , only just the farm •
And -the farm would only support • .•
That was the only sup p ort t here was, and the young peop le
didn't much like it . They wanted payday coming in .
You stayed i n Cl i nchfield pretty much duri n g the 20 1 s . Or did
you ever work East Marion? Or one of the other mills?
Yeah , I went ov e r th e re one time and worked with them awhile .
t East Marion?
Yeah , after I went out on the farm .
I got some lei~ure and
didn't h a ve nothing to do and I went back up to Clinchfield and
they just didn ' t have nothing for me .
They told me to go over to
~ st Marion and tell them that they sent me over there .
And I
went ov e r there a nd told the overseer that I 'd been sent over
there to work about three weeks . He said, well I can't do nothing
but put y ou to work here . Come in in the morning and work .
So , I worked there thre e weeks .
I
I
That would h a ve been during the 30 s, wouldn t it?
No, that was in the early 40's . That was after I'd moved and
bought that farm .
Ioved out on that farm .
It was after c rops
was laid by and everything was over .
1
But up to that time that you all left during the early 30 s ,
you stayed in Clinchfield?
Yep. I was in Clinchfield .
At the time y ou left Cli n chfield , how many hours a week wer e you
working?
I was wo rking 55 .
55 . Do you remember wha t you were bringing home in pay then?
Do you rememb e r what y ou were being paid?
Yeah .
I was makin~ $18 . ?S (inaudible) .
But inthe early 30 s they we re c ut ting back hours and •••
Yeah .
(wife speaks) ••• ri ght after the war , the First W
orld War •
We re the wages during the 20 1 s pretty much steadily going up?
No, they didn't go up fast .
ow , I might AO a I little politicking .
I
I don t know what your politics are .
But that s all right .
I
like you just as g o od to be one as the other .
nd , right after
World War One , let's see , who was elected? arren G. Harding .
· ell , after the election was ov e r with , they c ome around and cut
me down to 85 cents . After the electi on, I was cut down fran
a doll a r .
Why was that?
Just because t hey could . And I don 1 t knov if poll tics had any thing
to do with it or not. But I always blamed Warren · G. Harding for
it . Because he was president when I got cut .
Were the bosses trying to tell you how to vote?
W
ell , up here at Clinchfield , they wanted you to vote straight
De mocrati c tick e t . And if you wasn ' t a Democrat , you didn ' t fare
too g ood .
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But you could get a job if you we re ••• ?
Oh y eah. You could get a job and stay, but they giv e you the
c old shoulder if you wasn't a Democrat.
Do you know if that wa s the same thing at East ari on?
Yeah, t h e same thin g at East 1ari on.
They wanted you to be a Democrat~
Yeah. But now at Drexel Furniture Factory I worked at, you h a d
to be a Republican to get any favor up there. They wanted you
to vobe a straight Republican ticket and all my overseers was
Republican. They led me pretty high . Wh en Nixon wa s running
against ~enne dy, they come around, several of them, and t old me
that they'd done found out that ixon was going to be elected so
I 'd better turn ove r and vote for him. I told t h em he wo uldn't
be elect ed, thi;t I d i dn't think so, that he wruld.
o I had it
I
back in my favor. Of course, I didn t rub it in on any of them,
after Kennedy was elected,you know , and Nixon got beat. But I
never could understand how Nixon ever could get elected. Then
after this Water ate mess, he got elected like all therest of
them do because he had plenty of money or the people that h a d
I
the money was backing him ••• (inaudible). But it wasn t too
long a f ter that that I got on piece work.
ow when you went
in there running c ards like I started running cards, they'd
tell you that if there was anything you'd rather do besides the
job you had, when you got a few minute s off your job, go and
work a t it.
nd help the hand that was running it. And as quick
as y ou got to where they thou ght you could run that job, pretty
well, why they 'd giv e it to you . Give you this same kind of
job. The turnover in the work was awful fast ••• (inaudible).
Do you know why t hat wa s? That t h ere was so much turnover?
W
ell, one thing was, they began that stretch-out system. Of
course, it wasn't too bad at that time, but it started in that
direction and the people that come from 0 outh Caroli n a up here,
just droves of them. I n fact, all our overseers was fro m ~outh
Carolina.
(inaudible) And they'd co me here and they didn't
like North Carol ina. They didn't like the temperature and they
d idn't like the people, didn't like the mills, didn't li~e
nothing about it. Well , they wou ldn't stay long before they'd
go back to South Carolina. And they might co me back aga i n. 3ome
of them did. Of course, some come and stayed.
ow all the
ove rse e rs up there was fr om South Carolina. And I said awhile
a g o where I was off e red an overseer's place, you had first to
start off, they c alled it a fixer. You had to keep the machinery
repaired. They held you res p on sible for the work, the machinery.
And some people would get c areless and make bad work and when
they got on them ab out it, they'd swear that the machine wasn't
working right. So then they'd g et the fixer up and they'd give
him a bawling out. And when the fixer got on to the help, for
the work, why they (inaudible) to tell him what they thought of
him. A~d they didn't hesitate to speak with him. I heard them
talk to the fixers and that was why I was glad li wasn't a fixer
after I heard what they said. Then you went from there to what
you called a second hand. He was over the fixers.
nd he had a
boss carder over him, and a lot of them went on to be the boss
carder, the boss weaver, and the boss spinner. After the old
ones all died out.
End Tape #1
Begin Tap e #2, side 1
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You were saying that the fellow you bought thi s land here from
was telling you that the bus i nessmen i n larion didn ' t want the
Clinc hfield mills to come in here?
No, they didn ' t want it to c ome . The people here knowed that
their people wasn ' t going to work at it . And then they regretted
the people t hat it brought in . ( i naudible) too many bad peop le .
But they fell in love with them old mountain people , when the y
come here . They found them to be truthful and honest . Whi c h
they didn ' t exp e ct them to be .
rrl they liked them .
Got along
wi th the m and r e s pect e d them .
You were s aying that a lot of people who might hav e been av ailable
in McDowell County to work i n the mills didn ' t . You ever find
out why?
No . W
ell , they just , it was a disgrace . They consid ered it a
disgr a ce , to work in the c otton mills .
That was the people who were , say , farmi n g here in McDowell Coun t y?
Yep . They lived around here , they was born and raised here , and
they lived hard . They lived a whole l o t harder than they would
if they ' d have worked in the mills .
But they just c ouldn ' t take
a bossman . They didn ' t want no boss i ng .
So they eked out a li v ing
out in the soil . And a f e w of them , a l o t of them , work ed on
the side and made a little blockade liquor . Most of them ended up
inthe chain gang before it was over with . They'd just rather live
off of what the y could make out o n the farm .
You farme d ••• You we r e on a farm in adison County and a farm in
this ar e a . Woul d farming have b e en any eas i er or more profitable
here?
Oh y e s . It was more profitable he r e , of course . I f a rmed with
a man that had an extra good farm .
t had been well took c a re
of and handed down thr ough his grandfather .
nd he finally
(i n audible) . He was a M
urphy . And his grandfather at one time
had owned 100 Negro slaves . And he built bri c k houses and burnt
the bri c k on the place where he built the hou se s for the colo red
people . • hey finally come on down to Condre y (?) , t h e g randson
and gr a nddaughter . There were two granddaughters and one grandson
a ndth em three got all his property .
Was tha t this property , here , or · n Dysartsville?
No , it was this here .
I don ' t know , it was about fi v e or six
hundred acres , all told . Arrl he had a riv e r farm but the Duke
Power Company bought his river l a nd and put water up on it .
nd he heired a lot of wealth from his mo t he r. (wife speaks)
She was a M
urphy and married a Condrey .
(Hi c ks r e sumes) Arrl
he had plenty of mcn ey and he was a hard man to get any of it
out of . He stuc k to it .
I n the 20 1 s and JO's , when you were in the mills , were there any
black people work"ng i n the mills?
Nothing only the scrub b ers . The y h ired a colored man to scrub
and (inau d ible) •
Then it must h a ve been co pany policy not to h i re bla c k people ?
Yeah .
Jell , them mounta i n people - wh e r e we re you raised at ,
in the mounta i ns or down in the cou ntry?
Down farther east .
ell , I can g iv e you a little informati on about that .
ow , them
W
mountain people was awful op p os ed to the colored people .
hey
didn ' t allow them in the mountains .
If one went back th e re ,
they killed him . And the peo ple that was work i ng in the mills
would have left if they ' d ever put a colored pe rson in there
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running a nything other than scrubbing. Scrub b ing the floors
(inaudible). Now they're using some of them now, but they
couldn't back then b e cause t h e people wou ldn't bear for it.
Up to the time when, you left the mills, there were no black
people work ing •••
No black people in th e re. Only the scrubbers.
During the 20 1 s and before you left the mills, how were mill
workers, people tha t worked in the mills like yourself, how
were they treated around town?
When you went to town to do
some shopping or something?
Wel l , they was high ly respected by the bus · nesses in town
because the bus i nesses in town knowed that Wu S where their mo ney
was comi n g from. And they knowed they was go i ng to get ev e ryt h ing
that the mill peo p le got ahold of.
So where busin es smen might h a ve opposed the mills coming in, they
were happy once the mill workers were here spending their money?
When they was getting the money.
nd the peo p le that was opposed
to it ever be i ng put here was happy about it once it got here.
Another thing. You were say ing ear lier that at some point some
of your bosses, i mmediate bos s es, were from South Carolina.
Yeah . W
ell, the main overseer was.
Was that true most of the time during the 20 1 s and early JO's?
Why was that? Did they ••• ?
Well , they ••• North Carol i na peop le didn't know the cotton mills.
And you know that ' outh Carolina was full of cotton mills and
everybody worked the cotton mills down there.
(wife speaks)
They didn't raise no cotton in orth Carolina much . (Hicks resumes)
And they knowed the mills . And sev e ral of them ••• my overseer
and a lot of the other overse e rs, the main overse e r, when they
found out that the mills was going to come here to arion , they
took correspo ndence co u rses in textiles. So they come prepared
to •• educati on for work and all . ~nd they really could handle
the cot on mill machinery . l'hey really coul d. I mean in running
the mac h i nery.
aking rope and thread and stuff like that. It
seemed to be na tural, b e c a use they had be en raised with it.
Do you know where Clinchfield and East ar i on got most of the raw
cotton they proces s ed?
Well , they got it out of the main market . The c otton market.
(inaudible) that bought and sold to these companies ••• (w ife
speaks) It come from South Carolina mostly ••• (Hic k s resumes)
W
ell , most of it did (inaudible) Anywhere t hey raised cotton.
Now , a t the time of the Depression , big cotton farmers come ·here
to try to sell t h eir cotton direct to the companies.
Did t hat work?
No. Th e company wouldn't b u y it. They to l d t h em to sell it to
these companies and they'd rebuy it from thEm. Shipped up here
by the carlo a d, one carload after another .
Why wouldn't they buy it direct?
Well , they had a standing contra ct with these bi g companies and
naturally the peo p le that have the mo ney get th i ngs dore the way
they wanted done.
The big cotton-buying co mpanies that bought the cotton and then
s old it to, say, Clinchfield . Do you know wher e they wer e ?
ere they in Balti more? Or New York?
W
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ell , they was way off somewhere . I don't k now for sure where
the y was at, but t h ey s e nt men i n at the fall of th e year , you
know, t o bid on the ~o tton for ginning . There never was but
one cotton gin in North Carolina that I know of .
It wa s down
near crest City .
It's gone out of business , I thin k , now .
It
was a small unit.
Let me ask you another que s ti on about that strike in 1929 . About
how many peo p le in C1inchfield were part of the union or supported
the strike?
I ' d say about , there was about one f::l:fth :,at Cli nchfield . Of
course there wa s more than tha t at East M
ari on .
And there was about 70 0 p e ople at work in Clinchfield? Then ,
in 1929?
Yes . At Cl "nchf ield, at the mill . And I don ' t know how many
worked at East ari on . It was a smaller mill than either one
of these up here . But there wa s about half of the people at
East arion that claimed for it . Finally got two or three kil l ed
over there .
Why was it that the workers at East arion supporte d it more than
at Cl i nchfield?
I don ' t know ••• I never have be e n able to understand that .
It
r eally was a bett e r place to work t b an Clinchfield.
t was?
Yeah , it was .
Was it better in t e rms of the mo ney you made or •.• ?
o, it wa s not the money but the work : ng conditions was bett e r .
You said earlier that the mill village at East Hari on had better
houses?
(wife speaks) Yeah.
(Hicks speaks) W l l , East t arion had better
e
homes for the people to live in .
(wife r esumes) ••• loo ked nicer
on the outside . I never have been in one of them . before .
Did you all know many of the peop le tha t worked at East Mar ·o n?
Yeah . I knowed a lot of the m. I knowed some of them well , one
of the old men that got killed was from Clinchfield .
Do you remember his name?
Yes . He was a Vickers . I knew him well .
Sam Vi c kers?
Yeah .
(wife speaks) He co . e from D ~ sartsville to the cotton mills .
(H ick s resumes) He got into the union . And some of them w&s so
stubborn that they wo uldn't have went back if the company had
told them to . But the most of them they wou ldn't let come back .
M
ost of them th a t joined the uni on?
Yeah .
nd they come around , I lived up here at Clinchfield at
that time, and they co me around one morning with a bi g old mega phone horn , around in a car . I was just getting ready to go to
work . They was hollering that everybody at East ar i on had been
run off . Ev e rybody at East M
arin has been run off . Tha t 's all
they said . W
ell , the people h ere from Cl i nchfield , well , that
joined the uni o n and was sticking to it , t h e y just took off ar:rl
went over there . But when they got there , why people was bunched
up into two bunches, union here and the non- uni o n up here • And
there was so me people, somehow, I don't k now how they d one it ,
some of them had got in the mill .
nd they was up in the card
room , up in the spinning room top floor , and they got a rifle in
the re . And the union f i nally at last went to sho oting guns (inaudible)
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And there wa s three peop le killed. One wa s old man J ona s.
e
was from East lar ion. Old Sam Vickers and I forget the other
fel l er's name .
(wife) He was a g ood old man, Vickers was.
(Hic k s res u mes) Yes , he was. He just got into that union.
e
liv ed,he had a home, he had a farm in Dysartsville. And he
had left it to come up here, but he was raised in hutherford
County . ~ nd he c ome up here and went to work. Had a great big
bunch of girls.
(inaudible)
Who wa s it ••• how was t h e union organized at Clinchfield? LJid
they get a couple of t h e workers to go a round and talk to each
person abou t joining?
Yeah . They first went to h olding a meeting about halfway b etween
Clinchfield and East
r i on.
nd a few of the Cli n chfield peop le
went out there and they liked what the o ld man promised them.
Promtsed t h em shorter hou rs and higher wages. If one of them
d i dn t like the boss, they'd run him off. So forth and so on.
They was going to appoin t common workers to be the hea4 man.
nd there was one old man, he was a Baker, and he didn t know a
thing l n the world about a card room. He could run, i fi the picker
r oom making them first laps. But that was about all he k nowed.
But they t o ld him if he joined t h e union, they'd make him a boss
carder.
' o before the mill closed down, he come around to the
card room there and he off e red me a second hand job if I 'd come
work for him when he got t hy place. I told him, oh yeah, yeah.
Of course, I knowed he wasn t going to get placed . And so he
g ot run off thinking that I -wou ld have been his boss man if he
had gotten the job they offered him.
nd he couldn ' t have run
the (inaudible) , much less the card room. And the peop le got to
talking it up, the ones that, had joined. Of course, they was
I
awful secretive about it. rhey didn t want many people to know
at Clinchfield. And •••
They were afraid of losin g their jobs?
Yeah. They was afraid of losing their j obs. Out they'd t a lk it
a lit t le and the strikers got gathering up at night after we went
back to work and they'd sh oot dynamite all night. 1 ight around
the mill villag e. Hard for a ma n to sleep. I can tell y ou one
pretty goo~ tale about that. I don't knew whether we ought to go
into that or not. But there wa s a fel le r when them strikers,
he had a little old dog ab out the size of that one and they'd
t rained it to t h row st i cks and it would go and get them. Bring
them back. That feller decided to get even with them.
e got
him some dynamite and he loaded up a stick one night and throwed
it down toward the ra i lro a d.
ell, that little dog seen him throw
it and he went and got it and brought it back. Got it back into
his yard before it exploded. I asked him , I said if, ever find
any of your dog . And he said no I never did find a p iece of it.
Blowed it all away,
(wife spea k s) inaudible .
I was read i ng in the newspaper in 1arion , had stories abou t the
strike and there was one thing I wa s reading about . Said they
had caravans d u ring the strike when both the mills were closed
down, ca ravans of farmers that we r e br:k:ging food i n for the
strikers. Do you know who organized them, or why?
Yeah. A lot of them did. The strikers organized it, but, they
got it started . But they made the farm e rs think they was
winning, go ng to win, and it would be up to them to buy the
farm e rs' food wh en ev e rything was over. lild a lot of people •••
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that wa s the day of th e horse and wagon and a lot of farmers
would bri ng a wagon-load of food in to the strikers and park
somewhere and they'd come and get it . Then the union went to
order i ng when they got out of any thing to eat. The strikers
all had a good garden. Everybody at Clinchf ield had a good
garden . And the strikers, the union man told them t o divide
their gardens with peo p le that didn't have any. W
ell, they'd
come in the r e, they'd pick tomatoes, they'd p ick potatoes , they
p i ck a row of corn, and in a day or two's time the y could clean
his garden out.
nd they went to Hoffman , the head man , and told
him that they had to have something to eat. lild he ordered a
carload of flour.
It come, and people told me that had a right
to know , they said it was from great .big rolli n g mills where they'd
sweep up of a tjight the flour that had sifted out on the floor.
They put it in bags and he ordered it. The people that seen it,
I never did see it , they said it was just as black as tar. People
got to eating that and the y all got sick.
But the farmers in the outlying areas were willing to do that
because they •••
Yeah , t hey thought ••• the uni on had them thinking that the y were
just going to take over. And they was going to help most of
them people buy their products when it was all over with. rnd
they'd bring it in just to give out to them.
You were saying earlier that some peo ple at the Clinchfield mills
had sort of taken you i nto their confidence and were telling you
how everything was going to work. Was that y our supervisors?
Yeah . No, not my supervisors. Me and him was very close
together and he kept me i nformed all the time what wa s going to
happen . I know the union c.ome to me, sent a special group , come
to my h ouse right late one evening. tl nd they told me that they
was giving me, since they liked me , they was giving me my last
c hance to join t he union . And i f I didn't, I was going to have
to leav e . Going to r u n me off if I didn't join the union. And
I knowed then that th ey was the ones that was goi n g to lea ve, and
I was going to stay. Th e way they come about it, they kind of
tole me now since y ou are a special friend of ours, we're giving
you a special c hance to join the uni on. You c an get in without
p aying any dues or anythi ng for so long . And I said, well, I
pretended gnorant i n it. Of course, I co u ldn't say nothing else.
I asked them, I said well, what am I promised1 They said s h orter
hours and higher wages. I said, well, when do I go to work?
I 'm ready to g o to wor k for shorter h ours and higher wages. I
pretended that I thought theunion was going to pay it, you know .
They said, n o, we're just going to make the company do this .
I said, well, if you ' re go ing to make the company do that, I can
do just as good a job at that as you can.
~ o just count me out.
I won't fool with it .
nd the loyal help up there , the y made it
so hard on the strikers after we all got back to work, after the
mills was running, they mad e it so hard on the strikers that
they j ust pulled up and left as fast a s t hey cou ld get away . The
company used so me tri cks too . They went down here somewhere
about outh Caro lina and the y got the roug hest old man and the
sweari ge st o ld man and the most profane old man I ever saw and
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he loaded up some household g oods i n a stati o n wagon. i nd the
union didn't think nothing. He come right on throughthe strikers.
And went to the office. They t ook back ovec there and showed him
an e mpty house and he put that stuff in that hou s e. 'l hey locked
the door. W
ell, the uni on found out . Uow I was working at the
time up in the card room. I didn't do much work.
I stayed at
the window to watch them mostly. I seen everything that happened.
They'd done had the soldiers up here in town, but hadn't brung
them down. They went over there, and t here was an old man, a
good old man, agood friend of mine.
ound the door locked, they
didn't k now wha t to do. He said it wou ldn't do to let that old
man move in there. So that old man that I 'd put so much faith
in, he took a stick and he broke the lock off tre back door of
that house.
Was it the h ouse he was living in?
The house t his old man had put his stuff in . He just , he put
it in the re a nd he left.
nd they carried that stuff out there
and throwed it across the hi ghway. I n front of the mill. And
the company sent a wagon team out there to get it. W
ell, when
they got out there, when they got to doing that, two big old
mules, and they got them mules by the bridles and everyone had
a club. And they got to beating them m
ules ove r the head and
most everywhere.
(wife speaks) The un i on people.
(Hicks resumes)
And they wouldn't let t h em come back. So that's when the soldiers,
they brou ght the soldiers in.
nd they said, the union said,
the so l diers was here to see that the rest of us left. That
was what they said. Well , the soldiers corre down here and they,
with fix ed bayonets, a n d they went to putting half of them this
way and half of them the other way. One old man- I could se e
h im fro m where I wa s at-he stood his ground. He wa sn't going to
run, a nd o ne of the soldiers give him a good poke in the backside
with that bayonet and I mean tha t old man could outrun a mule
af t er that. He just left there . fini then the soldiers stayed
up there for about a week.
(wife) Se ems to me they stayed lo n ger
than that.
Why was it the company went and got that feller from ~outh Carolina
and brou ght him her e with his furniture?
It was after we had went back to work. And then after trey p ut
his household goods back, they brought some more. Then he cane
he r e and they worked him ab out a month. I was glad when he
left . He was ••• (wife speaks) but he said why did they, why
d d they have h im t o come?
(Hicks resumes) Well , they had him
to come for j ust exactly what happ ened. They knowed that the
strikers would tear his stuff up.
Oh . '.!.'hey wanted to get the strikers to do sore thing, to provoke
them?
Yeah .
~ o the soldiers would come.
Yeah . And tre soldiEr s, they'd
told them t h e y wouldn't c ome down here, trey was already up here
in the courthouse. But they wouldn't let t h em come without there
was some violence erupted somewhere. And they went and got that
old ••• and he was the feller that got it started.
Was the r e anythi n g el s e you co u ld rem ember abo ut whether or not
the company had a plan to deal with the union? Did the y tell
you other things that they might have thought about doi n g?
Well , t h e¥ just aimed to be · t them. That was all there was to it.
They d i dn t aim to run under a union .
nd the Cli nchfield company
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did know that they h ad enough lo yal help to start up. ~hey
knowed it wouldn't be no trou ble to g e t e n ou g h .
nd they just
d idn't aim to run under a uni on. And that old man, bri nging
him in, he was the feller t ha t tur ned the tide.
He brought the soldiers, he help ed brin g the soldiers, arrl tm
soldiers could break t h e pickets at the gate?
Yeah.
W
ere there a n y other k i nds of tr i cks l i ke that th a t either side
used, that you could recall?
W
ell, not very much , I don't reck on. Now, t he company, after they
g ot back to work, the union members that was still in com
pany
hou s es, they notif ied them to g et out.
nd some of them left
and the most of them didn't.
nd they went a nd put their stuff
out i n the street. Or on the side of tbe street. t he c ompany
a nd the law did.
Evicted them?
Just piled it up on the si d e of the street. W
ell, the uni on
people they s ome h ow found some kind o f house a nd some of them
went back home. The y was all fr om the mountains.
nd some of
them went bac k home and some of t h em found a house. I had one
of my mother's brothers got into t h e union and one of my daddy's
brothers g ot i nto it.
nd my daddy's brother lived way down
h ere a t
ebo. And he was go ing back a nd forth to work. And they
fired him. And my mother's b r other, they got him a house over
the r e s omewhe re. And he went there and lived until he could find
a place t o mo v e. He went ou t on the f a rm.
' tay ed th ere as l ong
as he lived.
I s the re a nything that made the people that join ed the union any
dif f erent fro m t h o s e that didn't? I mean, were they like fr om
a diff e r e nt a r ea? Or did t h ey have anything in common?
ell, they was all fro m th~. mounta i ns. But the ones tha t I k now e d
W
from t h e mountains a nd back i n where we co ne from was co n sidered
to be boss y and ov e rbearing. That was the way . the y l o oked on t h em
back there at home.
W
ere they the ones that joined the union?
Yeah. They was t h e ones that join ed the union. And th ey was
people that had had their way where they'd lived. ~ ecause people
was afraid of them.
Sort of bossy and mean?
They were bossy and overb e a r i ng.
1
W
ere t h ey y ounger tha n tm people that didn t join the union? Wa s
there any age difference?
No, they were mostly middle-age peop le that joined. Mostly families,
that had a man at the head of t he family.
nd of course the
b osses had always made t h em mad.
h ey'd come around arrl bawl them
ou t about somethi ng.
W
ere t h e y g ood work ers? Or were they poorer workers t han t h o s e
that didn't join the uni o n?
W
ell, they just d o n e wha:; they had to do. uot by with anything
the y cou ld.
he ones tha t I knowed.
Did any of your close friends join t h e uni on?
Yeah •
We re you all still clos e friends t h en?
Yeah. I never did hold that against t h em, because some of them
I talked to, I t old t h e m I said now I don't believe in t h e u nion.
I don't want t h e uni ons. rlut you do •••
n d of Tape # 2, s i de 1
Be gin Tape #2, side 2
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After they broke the strike and broke the union, were most of
those people that was in Clinchfield that were in the uni on, they
eventually g ot them o u t of the mill? They run them out one way
or the other?
·
Yeah. Some of than t ore up their houses before they left (inaudible).
How did the company ••• did they just fire them or make it rough
on them?
They just fired them. Right off.
ost of them. Fired most of them~
Yeah.
Vo you k now where they went?
W
ell, they scattered about everywhere. ~ome of them went out
through the coun try around through M
cDowell County and some went
back to Madison , Haywood , Mitchell County, very Cou nty, Y111 cey,
back in there where they care from.
'ome of them stayed around
McDowell County as long as they 1 ived.
1:y uncle ••• both my
uncles did. Of course, my daddy's brother, he owned a home h e re
at Nebo.
nd worked in the mills I don't know how many years.
A lot l onger than we had. He ha.d a great big bunch of g irls and
they all worked (wife) They still live around here.
(Hicks . resumes)
They give him what they got for their work. It was the change
that come in their ticket. Say they drawed a ticket for $10.50.
He give them the 50 cents. He took the $10. That's the way most
of the parents did. ~nd he saved up enough money to buy him a
home. He had it when he died. A lot of tte parents, they just
let the children pay so much board.
Was there a lot of women that worked in the mills?
Ye ah. There was more women than there was men.
M
ore women than men . Did they do pretty much the same jobs that
the men did?
Yeah .
About the same thing.
LJid they get paid about the same?
Paid the same. All except n ow the rough end of the card room
where I was. L ike the carders, and drawers and intermediates.
'.l'hey was run by men. But the f i ner spinners, the speeders, that
made the f ner yarn, they was all most run by women.
Did they also work i n weaving?
Yeah. Abcut as many women as there was men in t h e weaving.
What about ••• what d id the women do? uid they join the union
in about equal num
bers, or were there fewer women?
No. Th ere wasn't hardly any joined •
The union was mostly men1
Yeah .
Was that true at East larion too?
No . I thi nk it was a loy of women joined over there. I tell you •••
That thing's off now ain t it? You got it cut off now ain't you?
No. It 1 s still on. You want me to stop it?
No. I don't care anybody knowing what I got, was fixi ng to say.
Th e re was one of our next-door neighbors up there at Cl inchfield.
And he joined the union and he had a little ch ld take sick. A
little girl, and he sent after me one evening to come out there
as quick as I could. And I got out there and him and his wife left
the r o om with a little child, and asked me to go in there and
stay with it. And ~ went in there and it died in five minutes after
I got t here.
W
ell, he had a sister that lived at East arion. Her
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husband belong ed to the union ove r there and they hadn't never
went bac·k to work. And everybody that belong ed to theunion seemed
to think that if you didn't belong to it y ou ought to be afraid of
it.
fraid of physical dama g e. He asked me, he said Perry are
you afraid to go to Ea.st M
ari on? I said no sir, I ain't afraid
to go to East M
ari on. He said you go over there, told me what
house his sist e r lived in and tell my sister to come over here 1
that baby's dead.
So I went to the house and pecked on the door
1
and she come to the door and I told her my business.
hat her
brother's baby had died, s ent for her. She said, well, I'll
have to se e my husband. He's down there on the picket line.
That was before East Mari en had ever started up. Said, I 1 11
h a ve to go down there,and se e him. Sa id I guess you're afraid
to go down there, ain t you? I said no, I a i n't afraid to go
nowhere. I said get in the car and I'll go down there. I went
down there an:i she hunted her husband.
evera.l of them c an e,
eight or ten foot of my car with t h eir clubs. And they was
looki ng at me awful mean, but they never said nothing. And
she talked to her husband and then she come back and got in the
car and I too k her back over ther e to her brother's. And when
I was a young man up there at Clinchfield, I was a man that
everybody looked to for everything. I had to hunt the doctor for
all the people. I had to dig graves for everybody, and I had to
hunt preachers t o preach at funerals, and I had to, well, they
just looked on me as a fre e riding horse. 0 o one n i ght, so me
feller pecked on the door and I went to the doo r and he said
Perry, my wife's having a baby m d I can 1 t get none of my uni on
men to go a fter t h e doctor.
aid, will you go? I said sure,
I 'll go. ~ o I put on my clothes and went out there and got in
the car. I had an old T- model Ford. He said, now are you afraid
to go to the head man? He lived over there between the r e and
Clinchfield. Said, are you afraid t o go to his house? I said not
a bit in the world.
owe went to his house andhe pecked on the
door and his wife come to the door and said he was over at union
headquarters on ~ orehead idge. That wa s a Negro secti on. He
c ome back and said that man's over at the union headquarters and
I guess you're afraid to go over there, ain't y ou? I said no,
I a i n't a bit afraid. Said a re you su r e~ I said I 'm v e ry sure.
So he g ot i n the car and we went over there to that union headquarters. That whole hilltop was covered up witq people. ind
he went in the old bu i lding there. I t had be en an old store
buildi ng. Found t h at man. And they had to get an order fr om the
u ni on bef ore they could get a doctor. He went in there and got
t hat order and brou ght it back and we went up to tov n to an old
doctor. He's b e en dead a good many years, and he wa s an old
country doctor. Name wa s Jonas. And we went to his house and
call ed him out. He promis ed to come. But I went through them
any time I took a noti on to. Part of the time I was mad e n ough
to bitten through nails and part of the time I was a mused, I was
tickled at them.
~hen you would go through the picket lines ?
I went through the picket l i nes. Another thing I ' l l tell · you. They
had t he roads blo c k ed. W
ouldn't l e t anybody in.
W
ell, my
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brother come down through there and me and my wife and family
was over at my daddy's on the other side of the mill • .And my
brother asked me, s a id have the y se rched your car yet? I said
no. He said, well, they will before you get home. He said
t h ey searched my car, and we both had an old t ouring car with
a cloth top. And of course, that finished making me mad. I
didn't have too much farther to go . I told him, y ou get right
behind me and I 'll show you how to go throu gh them. And my wife's
brother had t ook two old F ord c a r horns and tore them up and
put them together. Put it on my car and it made the awfulest
racket you ever hea rd. So he got right behind me and I started.
I had a 1 926 T-model Ford . And we crossed the railroad switch
that goes down to Clinchfield. W
ell, that crowd was all up
there, men and women playing (inaudible) , hav l ng a bi g time.
nd the farther I went, the mad d er I got. So I blowed that old
horn and it went l i ke a railroad whistle. .And they all turned one
another loose and just reached around and picked up them clubs.
They h a d them setting aga i nst the bank and the y watched the road.
And tha t's one time tha t o l d car run good. Just seemed like it
wanted to run g ood. I poured the gas to it, and it was the wnong
thi ng to do. And I went through tha t crowd. They just spread
li k e water. I got to the foot of the hill and told my wife,
said I 'm g o i ng to stop and go back the re. I might have hit
somebody. I 'm sorry that I done that. She commenced to beg me
to go on, s a id y ou'll just g et in a fight. Just go on, go on.
So I went on home. I said, you reckon I hit anybody? He said,
I don't know, but he said they was three and four double deep
on the side just as I come through . Bu t he said that ro d was
ope n, but they was all piled up on the side.
(wife speak s) They
j ust jumped out of the way. You brushed one man . (Hicks res umes)
A few d a ys after tha t, I was off , going back. The y stopp ed a
man , wouldn't let him g o in. I pu l led right up against him.
So they told him he'd have to back out, and go back. Wouldn 't
let h i m go in at all. And he started backing into me and I just
blowed that old horn and held my ground.
Some of them come back
there and looked. Said, let him through , let him t h rough. I t's
this craz·y man back here . He' 11 kill a bunch of us if we don 1 t
let him t h rough. So they let him through, go on, but they
followed h i m ove r there. F irst place he could t u rn around , t h ey
made him turn around and go back (wife spea k s) They was afraid they
was brirgtng i n new hands to the mills, that was wha t •••
Oh . New worke rs to repla ce the strikers?
(Hi cks resumes) Yeah. ~ hat was what they was trying to sto p .
ew
hands coming in. (wife speak s) But they never did try to s top
us no more . Why we lived on cotton mill hill a nd we had to go
out sometime. (Hick s resumes) ow when the soldiers come, they
sea rched my ca r every time I took it out.
(inaudible) Even
raised the back seat and raised t h e tr unk lid. Looked u nder the
hood and ev r y t hing .
Wha t we re t h ey looki ng for?
They wa s looking for weap ons.
Dynamite?
Ye a h . And pistols and ev erythi n g . F irst morning I went in the
mill after t h e soldiers come, the y stopped me abou t seve ral
hundr ed yards from the mill a nd wanted to search me. An d I needed
a poc ke t k nifle on my job, to cut roping.
nd he searched me and
found my p ocket knife . He said, now I 1 11 have to take that • I
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said well , I don 't know h ow I'm going to do withou t my pocket
knife . I said , no way I can get it in there? He s a id you might
put it in y our shoe . So I just reached down and stuck it in my
shoe . '.L ook it in there . But I left it in there . I wouldn ' t
brin g it back out . They was afraid sorr:ebody would take a weapon
i n there .
(wife speaks) An d they ' d g e t to fighting (Hicks
res um es) They sent us word o ne eveni ng from East Marion thEt
the y was comi ng over there a nd going to run ev e rybody out of
the place .
Who was going to do that?
That was the union at East arion . And they brought us the word .
W
ell, there wa s p lent y of broom handles in there . mi we had to
make , call t h e m brush sticks . Take a bro om handle and whittle
it off and cut notches in it, and make a brush out of that waste
(inaudible) . To clean up under the machine ry with . And everybody
went to work , some cut the brush off the handle . Some found
a bro om handle . And the feller that had the little dog that
carr ied the dynamite ba ck to the house , he bro u ght him in there ••
g ot h i m a railroad tap off a joi n t on the railroad . He had it
n there m.d he whittled down his broom handle and put that tap
on the end of the broom handle . I watched him fix it .
nd we
wa s go n g to meet th em out at the h e ad of the stairs . I told
h i m, I sai d when we go ou t there a n d me e t them people , I'm going
ri ght behind y ou . He said why? I said , well , there won ' t be
nobody left for me to hit after he gets through with that nut.
nd they had the picket line all around our mill . 'l'he railroad
switch was down t h rough there. W
ell, a lot of them mean bo y s
wou ld g e t nuts , a nd the re was always plenty of old wore out nuts
off of the machi nery . They could get a poc k etful . They slip
1
up ther e and they'd throw them up at the windows .
hey hurt
several people that wa y . But that felle r brought h i m a nut off
the railroa d .
(wife speaks ) W s he aimi ng to throw it at
s omebody? (Hicks resumes) Yeah~ And they'd pick up the nut wh en
it c ome a nd they' d go to the off ice and report it .
nd they c ru ld
look at the nut and tell where it come from . W h a d an of f ice
e
in o ur own depar tment. One old mean boy n the r e , good old boy
but devilish . And he went so mewhere and took a wrenc h and he took
him a ••• got h i m a nut off ••• Come back in there a nd told me , said
you come over here nd watch what I ' m going to do. And I went
over there and of cou r s e he h i d there i n the window a nd they
couldn't see . He throwed that old big railroa d nu t out there .
He d idn't hit anybody, but come ri ght clo s e to . They run a nd
rabb e d it up and look ed at it and we co uld see them .
nd he
said I 1 m wo nd e r i ng if they k now wha t wi ndow that cane out of.
He got it off the railro a d .
Let me try to get the time stra i ght in my mi nd . You c a me to the
mills firs t in 191 9 ?
I guess it wa s 1 1 8 •
1 91 8 . And t h en you a ll lived in the mi ll villag e? And then you
went b a c k to M
adison County? S ta;yed a year and then you come back?
Mov ed back i nto the mill vil l age , and t h en so metime during the
20 1 s, y ou mo ved h er e ?
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A.
Q.
•
•
•
Q.
Q.
No . Not here .
Dysartsville?
I first went out on a farm over across the hill, here adjoining
Lake James .
I rented it from an old feller . That wa s old man
Condrey .
When wa s that? What year were you out there?
Now that was in the 20 1 s .
(wife speaks) No, that was in the
30's .
(Hicks resumes) Was it?
(wife) Yeah, because Lois was
a little baby . Shew as born in 1930 and we moved between then
and 1932 . (Hicks)
ow, about the time she was a year old.
(wife)
It was ab out inaudible) when we moved out on the farm .
~ o , did you all then live in the mill villag e all thew ay during
the 20 1 s up to the 30's?
Up to th e 30's when we went out there . No , I bought a little
farm down here at Nebo and we quit the mill and went out ·and
stayed about a year . And ••• (wife sp e aks)But you worle d 'in the
mill. (Hicks resumes) But I worked in the mi l l .
went back and
forth .
And then you finally left the mills in about 31 or 32? To go •••
Yeah . We staye d ou t five years .
And t h en you come back to Drexel?
nd then I went back to Clinchfield .
nd I worked several years
t he n and then I bought that farm in Dysartsville . (wife) Th~
was in 1939 . (Hicks r e sumes) I t was in the early 40's . It was
just abou t the time that W
orld War One was breaking out .
They got three of our oldest boys. In W
orld W
ar umber Two .
How many children did you all h ave?
Ha d six. Six living and two dead . Got four boys and two girls .
You said earlier that you had brown lung . When did you discover
that you h ad that?
Well, I don't know that was what it was . I knowed it was something
bad wrong . Th e last wor k I done in the cotton mills .
That would have been in 1939?
Yeah . About 1939 . And I got a l lergic to everything . Hay fever •
Breathin§ got bad.
hen I went out on the farm and stayed six
years .
old the farm . That was wh en I was talk i ng a b out wanting
to work out ::,ocial Security . To have something to depend on
when I retired .
nd you had to have worked for a company at
that time to carry it ..," And I decided to go back • •• instead of
g o i ng to the cott m mills. They done everything they could to
get me to come back th re . And I went to Drexel Furniture ~ompany .
W
ent to work out on the yard . Handling lumber . And my emphysema
g ot worse, and worse. I got to where I wasn't able to run the
job . Somebody said (inaudible) well satisfied with my work .
When did you 1 k now you h a d b r own lung ?
W
ell, it ain t b e en too many years ago that I knowed for sure
that's what it was (wife speaks) We l l, the doctor told y ou that
was emphysema . He n ever did tell you it was brown lung .
(Hicks
resumes)
No.
lhey cal l it brown lung now . And , W3ll I wrote
t o a doctor that wrote this in the Asheville ~itizen . l old him
h ow I had work ed . And he wrote me back a letter and told me I
had emphysema . But the doctors around Mari o n here they ne~er
cou ld discov e r.
(wife spea ks) They called it athsma .
Just athsma?
�A.
And after I went to wor k up there in the lumber yard, I told my
overseer that it was getting too hard for me.
I'd have to give it
up. He as k ed me what I wanted to do and I told him I thought I wanted
to nightwatch. I'd worked with him a year and a half. So they had no
trouble getting a nightwatchman job. They was having trouble
keeping nightwatchmen. I t was an awful big old p lant and it was awful
spooky . And ther e wa s a lot of people ( inaudible). So they put me
right on. I nightwatched for two years there. .rind in the time I
was there, we built this lit t le old house h ere. Our oldest son's
wife while he wa s i n the Army, bought two a c res a nd a half of land
here.
nd he said he'd give •.• both of them said they'd g ive
e n ough l a nd to build us a house on. W
ell, I didn't much like the
idea of that, but I went ahead and built this little old house.
Cheap lit t le old house.
nd we been here about 30 years.
nd I
nightwatched two years and a half and our children all go t away
from home. There was nobody to stay with my wife. She was afraid
to stay by herself at night. I went and told my bossman that I want ed
on the days hift, something. I didn't k now nothing ab out the furniture
factory, that is the inside of it. Well, he went and got me a job
in the machin e room. Rough (inaudible) where all the lumber all started.
But it was worse than the cot t on mill. F or dust. There wa s dust
ev e rywhere. The ve ry worst thing that I cou ld have done. But
I stuck it out there until I was , got old enoug h to retire. They cut
the a ge down fro m 65 to 62. And on the l''ourth of July, I was 62
in April. Been 63 the next year. W
ell, I went to the Social Security
man here i n a rion and signed up to retire. He fir s t told me, said
you can't retire. Yet. Said it;s all right to sign up, but y ou
can't retire. I said,~11, didn t you know they'd cut the a g e down
to 62? He said no, I didn't know it. W
ell, I said, I been watching
th a t closer than you h av e. So he signed me up and I went back on
M
onday morning after the ~ ourt h of J u ly, went right up to my boss
and tol d him, I said I'm just work i n g a ten day notice and I'm quitting.
He said what's themat t er? I s aid I' m r e tiring.
So he come around
about an hour or two and he said, P e rry y ou can't draw a thing this
year. You've done made o ver $ 1200, and that's all you're a llowed
to make. Wi th them. He said you c a n't draw a cent until next year.
He said l e t's throw that notice away. I said, well, just throw it
a way. He said, well, I never did turn it in nohow. So I worked the
rest of that year and retired. I like to never made it. I had, tl!mt
dust gi v e me hay fever and agitated this collapsed lung. And so at
the end of the year, when they c ome out for Christmas, he come around
to me and said now P erry you're just go i ng to make $ 1200 next
year, ain't you? I said I ain't going to make nothing next year. W
hen
I go out of here a t Christmas, I 'm not comi ng back. Oh, he said, co me
back and work out $ 1200. I said no, I'm done. He s a id,~11, come back
and wor k unt i l yo ur birthday . I said no, I 'm done.
'o I ~ome out the
Christmas vacation and although I was supposed to go back and work a
few days between vacatio n and the first of the year. But I took
pneumonia fe v er. I saw a doctor and wasn't able to go back. But
quick as I was able to go, I went and signed out for release and got
what was coming to me.
nd they beg ed me there yet to come back and
visit, but I ain't n e ver g oing back.
End of Tape #2, sid e 2
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Howie, Sam
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Hicks, Perry
Interview Date
12/31/1975
Location
The location of the interview.
Marion, NC
Number of pages
25 pages
Date digitized
9/19/2014
File size
24.4MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
b6affd7cf20c7fcf3df5c2f7a0b30fa4
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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111_tape338_PerryHicks_transcript_M
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Perry Hicks [Feburary 9, 1976]
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Document
Creator
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Howie, Sam
Hicks, Perry
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Appalachian Region, Southern--Social life and customs--20th century
Appalachian Region, Southern--Social life and customs--19th century
Hicks, Perry
Description
An account of the resource
Perry Hicks talks about working in a cotton mill in western North Carolina in the early twentieth century. He was born in 1899 and began working at a young age because he dropped out of the six-month school he was attending. He explains the influence the unions had: "naturally, I have, all my life, been opposed to the unions." He says that the unions caused inflation, so the poor people didn't come out ahead anyway. He eventually left the cotton mill because he couldn't support his family.
Boise Hardwood Lumber Company
Burke County N.C.
Clinchfield
Clinchfield company
cotton mill
Drexel Furniture Company
Duke Power Company
Dyartsville
East Marion Mill
farming
flu epidemic
Great Depression
Haywood County N.C.
Madison County N.C.
Marion
mill house
mill work
Perry Hicks
Pigeon River
protests
railroad
Rutherfod County
sawmill
segregation
voting
World War I
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/2ecee374740f1c5b14cbd6c822f5d9f4.pdf
95873778cc95a03390e4552e34503883
PDF Text
Text
ALBERT HASH OUTLINE
SIDE A & B
I.
How he got started in fiddle making business.
Grev from need for a fiddle
1. Dreamed how to make the fiddle.
2. Got horse hair for bow. (story)
B. Man tuned fiddle for him
1. Stayed with it until he could play
c. Dad bought fiddle if he vent to school (in the '20 1 s)
D. Played "graphaphone."
E. Two brothers played guitars and one brotl"ler was dancer for Ringling
Brothers Circus.
F. Could play guitar a 1 it tle bit, but decided to master the fiddle.
A.
U. Other crafts
A.
Kept on with fiddle while working on others.
1. Made guitar that he could work with left foot to accompany him.
(sixteen years old)
2. Liked to carve animals or anything.
a. Made skull with workable jaws.
3. Farmed at same time.
a. Wun 1 t too strong, so stayed home a lot.
ALL THROUGH0t7r TH INTERV!nl 1 WE WERE SOOWN VARIOIB PIECES OF MR. HASH'S WORK.
E
4.
Desaiption of Mr. Hash's daughter's work.
III • Making music
A. Recording for radio station in Maryland.
IV.
Back to instruments
Description
1. Leaves guitar making to David Sturgill and Wayne Henderson.
2. Talks of German town of violin makers.
A.
V.
History
Borns fifty-eight years ago, 1918.
B. Lived around White Top, VA, most of the time.
c. Married.
D. Tried to farm a while.
1. Made instruments and repairs for neighbors duripg winters
E. Various machine shops
1. Could sometimes use machines to make things for hi:mself.
F. Took correspondence course in Mechanical Engineering and decided to
build clocks.
1. Built works for clocks.
2. Built machinery to take place of five or six people.
G. Experience in machine shops.
1. Learn basic steps and then you can make clocks.
2. Was model maker at Brunswick.
A.
�J. Lots of
interesti~g things.
Blessed.
B. Advice for 'l.D'lhappy people.
1. Look on other side of hill and find out what one can do.
2. Money is beside the point.
c. Some people cut out for certain things.
1. Life will be short if you work your life doing wta t you don't
want.
4.
X.
Outstanding things in life.
More in line of machinist work.
1. Story of tube making machine. (Long)
a. All engineers paid thou8ands and machine wouldn't wcrk.
b. Machine wouldn{. work after.putting more money out for.
t
c. Mr. Hash dtsigns machine and even got a patent on it. (made
it in one afternoon)
2. Sometimes one head better than many, because too many people
look from too many angles.
J. Some people study too much and don't see the simple things.
A.
XI.
Ribbons and Prizes
Descriptions of festivals and conventions
1. Went through a flood once.
2. Once played against one hundred and si.xty-f our fiddlers, won
second place.
J. Judged some Fiddlers Conventions
A.
XII.
Life Nov
Stay around home
1. Give people advice.
2. Help students with making instrtlllents.
3. Names instruments.
4. Give people wood.
5. Make tapes for people to learn to play fiddle.
B. Only play old time mountain music.
c. Recorded for the Library of Congress.
D. Recording
A.
SIDE E
Live Performance (JO minutes)
�3. Description of gun.
H.
4. "Scotch" tricks.
Family craftsmen
1. Grandfather could carve but wouldn't.
I. Why did you learn to do all you do?
1. Necessity, isolation.
2. Didn't want to hunt or fish, so did more creative things.
VI.
Craftsman
A. How do you make things?
1. See it in my mind. No drawings.
2. Everything I make works.
B: Favorites
1. Clock (description)
2. Describes other clocks (famous ones).
3. Takes maybe three weeks work.
c. Book on American clocks.
D. First clock made in old bus.
E. How do you build a clock?
1. Can make case or works either one first.
2. !_ Lo~g description.
F. Materials.
G. How did you becane famous?
1. Not famous, he says.
a.Fiddlers Conventions.
b. Smithsonian Institution.
c. Fairs (last five or six years)
2. People learn you through fairs and festivals.
3. Made fiddle for back-up van in movies Harold Hensley.
White Top)
(boy from
SIDE C & D
VII.
VIII.
Cornshucks and aances and beanstringings
A. Descriptions
1. Played tor thousands of dances
2. Wife danced.
3. Molasses boilings.
B. Good social gatherings. No trouble.
c. Dancing. Mrs. Hash's grandfather.
D. People left for workj changes so these kinds of things stopped.
Keeping talent in fmi.ily.
A. Daughter Audrey makes instr1.1nents
1. Twenty six years old.
B. Other daughter works in church and with scouts, etc.
PICTURES OF CHILDREN
tx.
Craftsman, machinist, artist.
A. Jack-of-all-trades.
1. Love of work.
2. Chance to do type of work suited for.
�----·- -
'
I
ALBE ~'T'
r!AS H
TAPE //1
SIDE A
A:
Did you read the book, l et's see , it was from Ashe Central, the one with
the little magazine that the students fixed up over t here?
Qi
What's t t e name of it?
Ai
Timberline.
Qt
I've some, but I don't, you know, I haven't read it.
At
I told one of them the story of how I got started in the fiddle ma.king.
It was upon the need of a fiddle which I couldn't afford and my folks couldn't
afford, so I decided that I, studied on that and studied and studied how in
the world I could ever get me a fiddle, you know, and I studied so hard on
that, that I began to dream about it, you know.
that fiddle.
And I dreamed how to make
I just took a t hick piece of plank and cut away the inside of
it as near as I could figure in t h e shape of the fiddle and then cut t he outside down to look like t he inside,making a little t hin rim all the way around.
Then I got some little thin boards and tacked t hem onto it to make the top
and the back.
There was a fellar plow i ng for m dad over in the fields and
y
he got out of tobacco and he'd give me a quarter if I'd go to White Top Gap
out there.
It would have been about t hree miles.
Well, I walked out and got
his tobacco and brought it back and I bought me a set of fiddle strings.
I
put them on my home-made fiddle and the bow, I didn't know how to make a bow
much, so I got me a hollow
stick and made me two ends for it and I
�- - -- - - - - -- -
------ - - -
/ ,
2
thought that the hair must be white hair, all the fiddles, I'd never seen,
but two fiddles before that you lalow, and I was about ten years old.
So,I
thought that hair had to be white hair or it wouldn 1 t play and the mail carrier had an old horse over in the field close to where we lived and I got,
I talked my brother into helping me hem him up in a corner of the fence.
He got him a couple of big corn stalks and drove that old horse into the
corner to the fence and I sndaked around through
I got in behind him and
~ached
the weeds and crawled 'til
through the fen ce and got ahold of his tail
and I yelled at him and tha horse took off dawn thehill arrl liked to pull me
through the crack in the fence.
But I had that horse tail wound araund my
fingers enough 'til I could pull me out a fiddle bow out of there.
So, I
brought it back and I put it in the two ends of my fiddle bow you know.
It
was".a crude looking thing and I pulled it acorss that fiddle and it wouldn't
play a lick and I figured, "My goodness, there is someting wrong somewhere
or another."
Then I looked the whole thing over fau top to bottom, I couldn't
figure out what was the matter an:l one of the neighbors passed by and said,
"Well, I know wha.t is the matter with it, 11 he said, 11 you need some resin on
that bow."
I said, "Resin?"
we've got sa11e r-esin at home • 11
He said,"Yeah, I'll bring a piece from home,
And people used it, you know, back then when
they grafted apple trees to make up their grafting wax.
So, he brought me
a chunk of resin down there and he could play a little bit on a fiddle and
he was lazy as he c aild be, just a big old boy you lalow.
And he lay down
in the chip: yard, where we chopped the wood, and put his head on the chop
block and tuned that fiddle and began to play on it there and that liked to
nm me crazy that it would play, you lalow.
Q:
With your horsehair?
At
Uh, huh, with
And he could play tunes on it.
my
homemade bow and all.
It would squeal out about:·like
�3
the average J/4 size fiddle will do, you know, and I don't guess anybody was
ever so tickled with anything as I was that.
As soon as he'd turn it loose
and give it to me I headed for the house with it as hard as I coUld go and
we had a little stove about like tip.a one here and over in the corner and I
got in behind that stove with that fiddle scratching and squeaking on it.
(Laughter)
I about run all the cats out.
I could play one of the tunes
t~at
But I .stayed with that thing until
he 1 d played trere, you know, and that got
me started fnom, in the build, making of fiddles and in the playing too and
then my dad, he found out.
He worked away, you know, all the time.
I stayed
with my granddad lived on his place and that little fiddle hanging right
there next to the mandolin, he bought that for me if I'd go to school
1
t11
Christmas, so I had to leave haue to go to school, you know, I was ten years
old and had never gone to shoool, only just a few days because it was, I couldn't
walk the distance to the school house, you know.
Qa
What year
As
Ah, that was back in the '20 1 s and so •••
Qt
You said your daddy :worked away?
A1
Uh, huh.
Qt
Where did he work?
A1
He worked for the Virginia Supply Company on, he worked, it was kind of
w~
that?
Do
you remember?
a railroad thing, he stayed in a railroad car, you know, and theymoved him
from place to place.
He was a kind of bookkeeper or sanething of that kind,
He'd been there, he'd been a teacher, you now, taught school and so he bought
me that fiddle there and I went to school, I went to my mother and went to
school from there, you know, and at C
hristmas time they brought me that
fiddle and I thought that that was the most wonderful thing in the world,
you know, and I've kept it all these years cause it wasn't a good one to play
�4
on and I pla.fed it for a long ti.me and th en I began t o make good ones, you
know.
And I made them that was so much batter than it that I just kept on
making them over the years.
Q: What ever happened to the first one, the one you made to begin with?
As
I don't know, I wish I could
~ind
out or had kept, but it was so
c rud~,
I guess that when I got to making others that I just, I don't remember what
went with it.
It has been so long ago.
It was, you see, I didn't have
glue, I took the, what pins I could steal out of the pin cushion and what
tacks I could find around about and tacked my top and back place on. You
can, you can begin to get a picture of what it looked like, yet it would
play•••
Qa
And all this came to you in a dream, I mean you dreamed it?
At
Yeah, I studied so hard that I began to dream about it.
Qs
H old wer e you?
ow
At
About ten years old, but •••
Qa
But you had been thinking •••
•
A!
Yeah, it had worked on for a year or two, the first time I ever heard
a fiddle played, I could remember of, I was scared to death of it, I was
just a little kid, you know.
And the next time we was, had a corn field on
the fellar 1s place and it come up a terrible thunder storm and we run into
his house and stayed on the porch and he went in the house and brought out
a fiddle and played for us while we waited, you know.
And then I had begun
. to understand what a tune was and what it sounded like and so on and I
thought that was music, I don't know what it, how to explain what it did
for me, you know, to hear that.
To hear the tunes played on that that I'd
heard my brothers sing, you know, and so on.
And of course, they wasn't any
radios back then and we finally got a hold of an old phonograph.
They
�5
called it a graphophone then, you know.
It played little round records,
cylindrical reocrds about so long, jsut a wee tiny thing, you know, and
it had some fiddle tunes on it and so on.
So that got me started into
muaic business and then my brothers, two of them played guitars and one was
a dancer.
One used to dance with
~ingling
Brothers Circus, you know •••
Qt
Wowl
Aa
••• he was a real dancer, he, ah, tap dancer and so on and he's dead now.
He, ah •••
Qt
What was hie name?
A:
Dennis and I had one named Rudy.
Qa
He played the guitar?
Aa
Uh, huh.
Qa
Why did you not take up guitar, I mean you just didn't want to do the
And one, Ernest that played the guitar.
same thingl.
As
I did at
~ne
time, played, played several years on the guitar, you know,
but the fiddle, I liked ao much better that I decided, "Well, you can't
master one in a lifetime."
So, I gave up the guitar altogether.
And tren
I tried to learn some on a five string bango and that thing, I could have
learned electricity easier than I could have learned that.
Qa
(Laughter)
Aa
And I never could learn anything about electricity.
I have to see some-
thing.moving before I can work on it, like the clock wheels up there.
Q.a
Well, you can go on-.and tell us how you started making other stuff, too.
Aa
Well, this I kept up working on the instruments and tren as long as
I had time 1 I wruld carve wood, you know, and make all kinds of things and
all kinda of little mechanical things.
And I decided one time tha,t my bro-
thers went off to work that I needed a guitar player to play with me and I
�6
took a guitar and got to looking at that thing, knowing the chords and how
it should be played and so on, I built me up a device, a rack to put that
guitar in and I had some levers that would go over and pegs sticking out
of them that would touch the strings at the right place and I had a pick
that I worked with my left foot, here on a shaft that run up and down and
I could play a guitar am a fiddle at the same time, you know.
After I
learned and I'd either play the guitar and forget the fiddle or play the
fiddle and couldn't play the guitar, after I got them both to going at once,
I could keep time with myself there you know, and I could play that thing
right along.
It'd play good, you know.
Q1
How old were you then, ten or eleven?
As
I was still, I was around sixteen or seventeen, I guess, s<11lewhere around
there.
(laughter).
And I kept carving this, that and the other.
I like to carve lit-
tle animals and so on and I'd carve frogs and mice and birds and just anything that come along, skulls,
time, of white wood.
I carved out a skull out of buckeye one
It was a pretty weird looking thing and I decided, it
looked so good and all that, I'd, ah, it's jaws needed to .work all the time
and I fixed that thing up with a set of old clock works.
A little wire
running out of them so that it would keep that thing's jaws a biting all the
time. (laughter)
Just anything to be a doing something, you know.
Qt
Well, were you farming at the same time, I mean •••
Aa
Yes, uh, huh.
Qi
••• were
Aa
We farmed all the time, but I was, I wasn't too strong so they'd leave
you farming and just doing it as a hobby?
me at the house lots of times, my mother was sick alot, too.
They'd leav.e
me at the house to do the house work arrl after I'd get my house work done,
I'd hit out under an apple tree or something, you kn01-1, some wood carving of
�7
some kind.
I carved everything.
Everything you could think of.
Qs
Did yau give those things away or just •••
As
Yeah, uh, huh.
of things.
I liked to carve things like that, I carved all kinds
Everything I could think of.
Q:
Do you still carve alot?
Ai
Uh, huh, along.
I don't do alot of it anymore, only jut when I have to,
like the horse head up there on the dulcimer neck and stuff like that.
I'll
pull it down here where you can see it.
Q1
Oh, wow, that is beautiful!
AJ
I carved one aide of it, and Audrey carved the other side, I wanted her
to learn to carve •••
Qs
At
Why don't we get a picture of that?
••• and she's, I wanted her to learn to build her instrmnents ela-
borate and she is doing a mighty fine job on all of them, I think.
Q:
What is that right in there?
As
That's a pearl.
shell.
So, here's the horse head that'll go on
one end of her dulcimer.
Qs
Now, did she do this or did you this?
At
She did one side of it and me, the other so that she'd have something as
a pattern, you know.
But
t~ is
is entirely her carving there, the dragon
which will hold the strings and the, fran the back end of the dulcimer and
this should be a very elaborate instrument that she is building up.
~e
is
building this for a gentleman that's a collector and also ah, does alot of
playing the music away from two radio stations that he owns, ah •••
Qs
Where are they from?
As
Up in Havre-De-Grace, Maryland.
we record for him •••
Qz
Your band recorded?
Ee has an FM and AM station there and
�A:
Well, part of my bmd has been in it.
Audrey helps me with her guitar
playing and he brings down a young lady with him when he comes down and we'll
make our programs for him to take back and play on his staitons there.
He
says the people like them, Idon't know what they sound like too, never
heard too much of them, you know, after we have put them on the tapes.
He'll play them back a little, once in a while, but I'm sure that I can't
contribute a whole lot ot them (laughter) I put out a whole lot of
loud noise.
As
big,
She is getting started in the instrument building now, I won't
have leave it all undone will
Mrs. Hash:
good~
!1
Huh, huh.
So, I've made alot of different kinds.
I've made some dulcimers and
I only made one guitar and it was a good guitar and a pretty thing.
I
made it out of curly map:te and it was pretty elaborate, but that was the
meanest thing I ever worked on.
I didn't have the prope~ jigs for holding
and so on and I'd get it in my lap and start working on it and it would begin to start turning around with me, (laughter) you know.
So, I decided
that I'd leave the guitar making to our friend David Sturgill down here and
Wayne Henderson.
They're good guitar makers, both of them are and this part
of the world up in here, we're getting several instrument builders around
about.
I call it "Little M
ittenwall'' now.
Q:
Oh, yes.
At
That is a place in Germany, I understand this violin school ah • • •
Qs
It is very famous for its violins.
At
Uh, huh.
Q:
Yes.
At
••• kindly started that out over there and from that day on
What is that?
made some fine violins in a place they call Mittenwall (?)
they have
I reckon it's
�- - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - --"
9
just a little community like place w.l th •••
Qi
Yes, a very small canmunity.
At
Uh, huh.
Qt
~t
A1
Right, uh, huh.
Qt
Why don't you tell us a little bit a.bout your history before we go on.
everybody in that canrnunity makes violins.
I'd like to visit them sometime.
Like where your family is f ran real brief.
As
Well, that won't be hard, that wouldn't take me long to get down to
where that I was born, right down at the foot of this hill, here.
A good
many years ago, about fifty-eight of them and I've lived right around this
White Top Mcnmtain vicinity here.
Most of the time.
I lived up, that's
where I began to learn the machinist trade, when !roved up toAlexandria, Virginia, there after I found that little girl over there and :married her along,
so maJl1 years ago.
And we lived up there for, well, I was up there alto-
gether around four o r fiv e years, around Washington and Alexandria and I
worked, learned the machinist trade over in the naval torpedo station there.
It was war time and they took me in there as a helper trainee and this torpedo station and I worked there till the war was over and then !cane back here
and decided I was a fa.mer and I bought me a · rhoe .. and a bag of fertilizer,
had a little place back up on the head of this creek that rtms over here and
I went up there and pretentied to raise a crop of corn (laughter)
more blackberries than anything.
t~ese
I picked
But I decided then I moved over across
hills over here a little ways and tired farming there for a, I don't
know, I must, how long do you reckon, I farmed Ethel?
Too long however
long it was, for I never did like farming.
Qa
Did you make instruments and things all the time you were doing that?
A1
Of the winter time I would and I'd make gun stocks for people and what-
�---- - - - - - - - - - -
---
-
-
-- --
-
- - -·
10
ever else they needed repaired and so on, you know.
I would do it for thEl!l 1
anything they needed, a piece to a, go to a piece of antique furniture or
anything they needed that way, I would try and come up with it and then I
•, j
I
•.
went to work for Spraig Electric C
ompany and I worked with them for fifteen
years and I worked •••
Q1
When was that?
As
••• that
was, let's see I've been out of there five years.
It's been
fifteen, it's been twenty years ago, I began to work for them, I'd say,
yeah.
Q1
Where is the electric company located?
A1
That's located over here at Lansing, just over the line, over inAshe
County and they was a good canpany to work for and treated me good and I had
a big machine shop and it was well equipped to, and alot of ambition and I
was alot younger than I am now, so I didn't take any breaks.
I'd get there
early of the morning and leave late sanetimes and sanetimes·, I'd go in on
a Saturday and they'd allow me to make sanething for myself, you lmow.
And
they was awf'U.l good that way and I began to make alot of guns, made all
kinds of hand guns, you know.
won the West, you know.
And I copied one Frontier Colt, the one that
Look, made it, copied one and made the parts in-
terchangeable into the one that I made and mine would go into the other e11e
and they'd .function, you know, and just for the sake of being,. a building,
making sanething, you know.
~
And then I decided that I had, I'd take me
course in mechancial engineering and I got up the books and began to study
that and I was having to read half the night or more you know and then work
nine hours a day and •••
Q1
Thia was a course through the mail?
Al
Yeah,
1.c.s.,
good thing and I got along way over in it and I come across
�11
this gear. cutting and so on , that is ratio of one gear to another
and all that stuff and I mastered all that and I decided, " Now,
I ' ve got enough of them books , I'm going to build me a clock ."
Arid I pitched my books aside and I started making clocks (laughter) .
I built several clocks and I never did try to study anything else ,
I just built machinery for them , you know, and I've built some very
complex machinery , I ' ve built machinery that would take the place
of five or six people, you know .
Q:
Gosh!
A:
And get it out on the lines to working and go on and build some-
thing else .
There ' s a machine I built to cut the gears in these
pretty clocks now, you know , and that ban saw I built there and the
sanders back there and I can look around out here and find alot 01'
things .
Q:
it?
A:
This kind of stuff that you made .
·How did you learn how to do
1 mean you just .. . tinker around ...
Well, actually the experience you have in a machine shop once
you learn the basic machines , you know , and how to go on your own
and if ,they give you a blue print of something they want made .
You learn to do the steps of turning it out and the milling and the
shaping and the grinding and so on .
Then this other , say making
this block up here , that now is not what I call craft or anything
, it just goes along , any good machinist ought a be able to turn out
the parts of a block , if he is a macninist , you know .
Q:
They couldn ' t carve all that stuff on there could they .
A:
I mean the movement of it .
So, all the, really all the skill
involved in the clock making is in the case, unlesr you want to de-
�- - - - - - - -- -.... :
•
..l ~
12 ·
sign one and put, say a bunch of dancing figures or a ship in the
top like mine upstairs. (Laughter) Make it a little different.
Then I worked for
.
,.
5~""'"-"\U~
~F~g
Electric for fifteen years and I decided
that I wanted to go out somewhere else and work.
So, I went to
Brunswick and worked for them for, I was there about four years,
I believe, you know.
And the job was compl eted , finished.
Q:
What is Brunswick, exactly?
A:
They, it is a company that is involved in making about every-
thing from pool tables up to cabin cruisers, anything you can .
think of Brunswick has made it at one time or another, even records.
They made records.
And they had me as a model.
I was
salaried, and my job was to make the first of everything that they
made.
If they wanted a certain kind of a rocket, really a model
maker is one who makes out of wood or plastics or something a model of something, but their need ... They had a machine shop, maintenance shop,a big machine shop, but there was no one that did alot
of design work on these new things.
So, if they wanted to make
rockets I designed the hardware and built the first hardware, then
it was out of my hands, you see.
all that thing, you know.
I'd get to go see them fired and
I built machine guns for them.
design the machine guns and things of that nature.
do much in the line of explosives.
You'd
But they don't
Theirs is more sporting goods
· and tnings of that nature, motors, they build, well, all kinds of
motors and so on.
Anything else you can think of they have at some
time or another built it.
paid me real good.
A good company to work for and they
I hated for the job to close down in a way.
I didn't want to make things to destroy people with and 1'ortunately
�13
nothing was ever used ·for that purpose that I made, so I felt alot
better about .
I just like to work at something like that .
I like
to make it and see it work and then maybe tear it up if it works
to ·good .
I
Q:
Where is this factory located?
A:
lt was over here at Sugar Grove , Virginia, about twenty-nine
miles from here , I guess .
Q:
Did it just totally close up?
A:
Philco Ford, a company out in California was building the gun
for this caseless ammunition
which was supposed to have been
used on one of those supersonic jets .
And this Gatling gun had
five barrels and fired, seems to me like it fired a thousand rounds
a minute, wasn .' t it , Ethel?
Ethel :
A:
Did I ever tell you or not?
I don't know.
I can ' t remember now .
Anyhow, when I , they'd show us movies
on how it was working and so on .
I said to myself it will never go .
The first movie I ever watched,
There ' s no way that it can .
They was pouring this ammuntion into these big boxes, just pour it
out and
then the stoker fed it into these barrels to that gun and
a blaze of fire looked like it would go about fifteen feet out and
just hold out there in that continous firing you
thousand rounds a minute it fired, Ithink it was .
kno~.
It was a
I know the bar-
rel s was set spiral and when it would start firing it would
straighten themselves, you know.
They'd fire away there ' til the
heat would get so intense and the breach of these guns that it
would begin to burn these cases that was made out of nitre- cellulose
and burn them up right there, you see .
There was no explosion,
just a big roaring fire out of it, you know .
�14
Q:
I wanted to go back and ask you something about when you
took that course in the mail.
Did you take that with the inten-
tion of making clocks when you finished?
A:'
'l'hat was mainly my interest in it and I wanted to see if there
was anything in there that would help me in my work.
I didn't
want to become a mechanical engineer ana have to leave the shop or
a.nything, I wanted to always work the machines myself, you know.
I found in taking this course that the re was so much of it that I'd
already covered that it was simply, wasn't worth my while to bother with it and work out all of the math that had to be worked and
all that junk that went along with it, which nine times out of
ten, I had a little Scotch trick or a nearer way or a different
way of doing it that worked much faster and better.
So, you see,
we have what is called a machinist's "bible" that always is in the
shop and I.have one over here now, because you'd never, no one
would ever turn out to be a first class machinist there's just too
much to it.
Look at the difrerent metals that comes up every day
different materials to work with in different types of machines
from computerized on down to the most rugged old equipment, some
of it antique like my lathe here, . and so on.
I had learned all
the Scotch tricks, that I like to call them, a Scotchman was •.•
SIDE B
Q:
Your parents did they do any kind of wood work or anything
like your father or
A:
~randf ather?
No, my grandfather, the only one that I could remember, he
could carve if he wanted tc but he, it was of little worth to him
to do that, because he was of the older generations that didn't
�15
believe in any foolishness of any, he called it foolishness, you
know, but he could carve.
carving out was a duck.
.~
The only thing that I remember him
He carved out a duck.
out anything that he wanted to, though.
And he could carve
I was the only one that
did any carving, but it is a strange thing, I had these three
brothers and each one had worked in machine shops at different
places and my three brothers and myself all could build any kind
of a house we took a notion or about anything else like that.
So,
I don't know, I guess, if we needed something we would make, it.
I guess, necessity is one of the greatest teachers of anything.
We could do hlacksmith work.
We could work on anything that we
took a notion to, you know, and make it work, do it 'til it would
work, you know.
Any of us could cut anyone else's hair, you name
it we'd try to do it, because it was the way we lived.
isolated .and we depended on each
and we depended on ourselves
Q:
Bu~
otgne~
We was
for the things that we neede
for the things that we needed.
it seems like other people that were isolated, you know,
they didn't start making all tho s e ....•
A:
No, they was families that was interested in different things.
Some like to go out with their dogs and gun and hunt all day.
never wanted anything like that.
I never wanted to kill the ani-
mals, you know. Never did want to do anything like that.
never hunted or fished.
I
So, I
My interest was in more creative work.
I'd rather of built the bird house than to kill the bird.
bird in my life I killed and I killed it by mistake.
One
I was
trying to kill a hawk that had been catching the chickens.
It
was in a tree, and I never could see out any distance like any-
�16
body else.
So, I shot and this dove fell out or that tree, and I
could of cried over it.
hunted for anything.
I didn't want to do that.
I never
I've tried to kill crows that was eating my
I
corn up when I farmed, but that was altogether a different.
So,
I guess that was one reason they had me working on the instruments
and so on, I didn't like to hunt and I didn't want to freeze myself to death out in the woods, so why not cut a pile of shavings
on the hearth and sweep them into the fire and come up with a
fiddle.
Something that would be worthwhile.
(Laughter) Or a
dough roller or anything else I took a notion for, if nothing
else an ax handle for the ax.
Q:
I was forever breaking them out.
When you carve anything, an instrument or whatever, do you
plan it before you make it, or does it sometimes take shape.
A:
No, everything I do, I always told the boys in shop said I was
training, I .always built it upstairs first.
before I even start to work on it.
I can see it working.
always worked a different method from
that I have worked with.
I can see that thing
mos~
every other machinist
They would want to make sketches and
drawings and compare this to this and so on.
them like that.
I have
I never would make
wnen plant manager would come and ask me, lots
of times, he'd come over the top of my foreman and ask me if I
could make a machine to do a certain job.
answer ready for him.
Yes sir.
And I always had the
And I would wonder off some-
where and sit down maybe drink a cup of coffee in the time of it.
I would begin to say, now this will work this way, but why won't
it work this way.
I would pick out the reasons why it will work
and why it won't work.
And when I got the reasons why it will
�17
work all in one-and
I would start
~
had no reasons why it won't work, then
machine1~g
out pieces and piling them up in a pile
and it would run my boss crazy.
He'd try to figure out, "Wnat
is he a doing now," and I've caught him several timec trying to
assemble parts to get- to see what it was a going to do you know.
I didn't want his ten cents worth in with it , you know because
everyone has a different idea about things you know.
He might have
had lots better ones at times than I did but I would get around
to the ah making it work after all you know and when I would get
it all machined out, I would assemble the machine and put it ,
on the truck and take it out into the line and put it to work
right there.
Q:
Did you ever made anything that didn't work right?
A:
Ah very few times that I've ever made any-no pieces of big
machinery of any kind have I ever made that was what you'd call
a flop you .know.
Ah it all worked out because I wouldn't start
it till I had figured it out that it would work.
I had weighed
my- why it will against why it won't, all the questions and
come up with the conclusion tnat it will work before I even made
any of it you know.
Q:
What about instruments?
A:
I have before now changed my mind in the middle of making one
that I had decided I would make ah ah design it one
way or
leave it a certain tnickness and then I would change my mind
due to the density of the wood or change design on it maybe
somewhere or another, I·d -c.hink maybe, "Well I'll do this to it
and then that- no I don 't believe
I·l~
do that, I'll go this
way and carve it some other way you know but not-I
wouldn~'t
�·~
I
get it far enough along but what 1
cou~d
change it without ah
it ever being noticed in any way after it was made you know.
It was made to look exactly like ah that I had planned it that
w~y.
Q:
Do you have a favorite piece of anything you've ever made, like
a
A:
c~ock,
c~ock
is that your favorite
Ah it is.
over there?
That clock, I'd rather see the stove and the refrig-
erator and everytning go out of here than that.
I take it out
once in a while to arts ana crafts ah festivals and so on and
I•ll leave it in the car, maybe going back the next day and that
corner, it worries me to death nearly till that clock is not there
you knew.
Q:
And now long ago did you make
A:
This ah I··ve had that made about fifteeen years I'd say now and
that~
it's ticked away-it ' s run ah I very seldom fcrget to wind it.
Now I could have made it an eight day clock by adding two more
wheels but I wanted to wind that clock .
I wanted tnat to be one
of my chores, daily cnores, as I started to go to bed to wind that
clock and it's just as natural for me now when I start to go
to bed, that's the last thing I do, I'll wind that clock up.
Q:
Is tnat one of your first efforts at clock making?
A:
That's one of my first metal movements .
I·d made them from
wood oerore that, but that ' s one 01· my first brass
c~ocks
to
make and ah the brass in that clocK is an e1gnth of an incn
thick, the
whee~s
ana tne main
whee~s
are over four and a half
inches in diameter and the leaves in the pinions are ah around
eighty thousanths thick.
clock with clocks
th~t
So comparing the thickness of that
was made beck pre-Civil War out of one
�·19
thirty second of an inch brice and have run for a hundred years and
that should tell you a story of approximately how long my clocks
would run , for they ' re made along the line of what was known as the
.
'"
O. G: clocks made by Terry and Waterbury, and all of
Conneticut clocks .
t~e old makers
After, you see the Grandfather clock the tall
clock like that, they used little clocks, Connecticutt clocks they
come out and it is no longer practical to make Grandfather clocks .
And wouldn ' t be to this day without you got an enormous price for
one of them, unless you just, you know , like I am, work if you want
to and don ' t if you don ' t .
Not but what I can use all the money
I can get out of anything, that ' s easy to do .
But the thing of it
is how long it would take to make one cf them .
You couldn ' t, I
wouldn ' t want to take it up as something to make a living with making these clocks like that .
For two
~easons,
one is it would take
a long to make them . There ' s every piece of that, you ' d be surprised how many pieces goes into that
~here
you make all of it.
You
see I even made the hinges for th8 case and the knobs for the door
and everything but the nails that went into that clock case I made .
The little ship up there is rigged up out of tin sails and screen
wire ropes and painted the scene back of it of the sea and so on,
and the dials and the hands , carved the spiral rungs that comes
down the side here and
up there .
And you ' d be surprised
at how long it would take to do that , it'll take
~ou ,
I'd say
that it ' d take approximately three weeks to built one of them ,
wouldn't it?
About like that .
So , you ' d get maybe five hundred
dollars out of it, for your three weeks work , which wouldn't be
too bad nor too good .
�20
Q:
Could you give us a general idea of the process or kind of the
evolution of one of these clocks?
A:
a
Where do you start?
Oh , I would say I have a book on American
r~al
rascinating book, you know .
alities of people that made clocks .
clocks here .
It ' s
We had all kinds , all nationAnd we had one woman that I
remember reading about in this book that was a clock maker , but most
of them were German or Dutch .
they
ca~led
And they called them , alot of times
them the Pennsylvania clocks, you know, the tall clock .
This pendulum, as I understand, was adapted to the clock in about
1630 , before that they had what was known a.s the balance bar , this
piece swung around ana back and around and back, just a balanced
up there held by a piece of string .
And that was one of the early
clocks , that was thirteenth century clocks beginning in the thirteenth century in China, 1 believe it was the origin
01
that clock .
Well , before that was the water clock, which was a container filled
with water with a tiny hole c.t the bottom and another container which
caught the water as it leaked out of that and raise this float
which read the hour of the day as it raised up , you know, as this
container filled up and then somebody had to be there to watch
that clock and pour it back in the other one again .
Of course,that
I guess they had the sun dial and the hour glass and what have you ,
or a mark on the porch to see when the sun got down to· a certain
time and it ' s time to E
.tart doing the work up .
some fantastic clocks .
appreciated .
'l'hese people made
Their ingenuity was something to really be
Now there was this one fellow who fastened himself up
and stayed for I forgot how many years and he come up with this
clock that has the Christ ana the disciple s and they march around
,
..
�at the time tnis clock is to strike, you know , and then he has
Satan and all kinds of figures of that kind that will come out
at difrerent times and so on .
T~ings
like that people have really
gone· into the clock making in a big way .
One fella made clocks
that I have a picture of one of his clocks which is I think the
most beautiful clock that I have ever seen any picture of or anything .
His clock back in the time that he maae it sold ror about
nine hundred dollars which then ir you could buy one now like that
it would probably be worth ninety or a hundred thousand dollars , you
see .
Q:
How many clocks have you made?
A:
I ' ve kind of lost count of them like I have my fiddles .
try to keep up with anything like that .
I never
But I hold some around
here and I took some way down into North
a couple to one man down there, aidn't 1?
C~rolina
dovm to Clairmont ,
Then I would a furnish
a set of works if somebody would make me a case for , give them a
set of works ana they would make two cases and put their works in ,
and give me a case to put another set of work s in.
deal for a while , you know , not having room .
I workea that
For I built my first
clock in the body of a school bus that I used as a shop .
I aian't
have room to turn tnat lULmber around and c.round in there when I
went to work .
bus .
Made a good shop, you know, but it wasn ' t big enougn for
anything .
Q:
So, my first clock building happened in that school
Plenty or light.
How ao you go about builaing one or the clocks?
Start with
the worksor do you . ...
A:
You could go either way .
I built the case fil·st ana one of my
�--- -- I
.22 '
neighbors come in and talking over the clocK he said, "What are
you building?"
I said ,
"J
'm building me a Grandfather clock."
And
he looked at the work , I had. it laying dovm , you know , in the floor.
11
'
It looks like it's going to be alright .
get your works? "
better
~ uild
Where are you going to
I said, "I'm going to buil cl them. "
the works first, then build the case .''
He said , "You
(Laughter)
I told him, I said , "If I can build the case, I know I can build
the works."
What really, the way you get started out you know a-
bout how many gears you want in ycur chain of gears up each side ,
providing this clock is going to be a one day movement, a eight
day movement, or a thirty day mo ve ment.
You'll have to work out
your ratio of gears then, but somewhere along the line you've got
to reach out into thin &ir and say I want a gear that 'll be, wel l
my main gears are, I use eighty and seventy eight teeth on them.
1 use the eighty teeth next to the
in that line.
firs~
gear up.
1
think of it
The one when the pa ir, you see , these are weight-
driven clocks, and the one that has the drum on it that the cable
winds onto has eighty teeth to begin with and it runs again one
which I believe has twenty teeth on the center shalt ana on towards
the escapement it runs again one with with seventy eight teeth ,
which runs against one with six teeth and always tha piniort gear
the
lit~le
up there.
gear has six teeth in all the way around in all my clocks
So, when you've worked. out the ratio then the size of
the movement depends on how you want to blow this up.
Say, well ,
I know that I need eighty teeth so you take , you say , I want to
make a clock, a big clock.
ment.
I want to make say a tower clock move-
You would say OK, it has to have eighty teeth on that first
�-----
--~- ·
23
wheel, and I will make this, how big
~ou
do l
want this fir s t whee.L .
can say , Ok, I'l.L make it twelve inches .
figure,you know.
teeth.
Just picking a
OK, you have twelve inch diameter with eighty
Now how big do I want the tone that it's going to run a-
gainst, because if it only has six teeth, then, if I get the diameter too big the gear whell
not mesh with the pinion .
~i.Ll
That's
where your ratio and proportion comes in on that, you work that out.
So, it i-:orks out perrect.Ly that way .
ure your clock out as you go
tether the length
~hat
And. you just go right on, fig-
way .
And. when you get it all to-
your penau.Lum tnen, that pendulum rod. that
01
swings back and forth determines the speed that that clock will gu
at, the length of that.
If you get it t.oo long the clock will run
too slow, if you get it too short it will go too fast, so you have
to have, keep slipping up on it.
Make it plenty long to start with
and then keep moving it up and cut t ing it - off, until you get it
established to what you need .
Then you can make right by
tha~
on
and on and on and they 'll work out right.
Q:
What metals did you use?
A:
.L use steel , coal roll steel and brass in the clocks that I
make.
I make
th~
always have brass.
plate, the housing that holas the wheels they
And l make the verge out of steel and the es-
cape wheel, the one that travels the fastest and does the most work,
it's made out of brass and there ' s one for you to figure out
I 've never been able to figure .
rou take all of your
go through your brass
~ hrough
wneel ~
and
~hat
~pinales
thav
tne1r steel and they go
through the brass fr a mes on the side of it and they will wear tne
ora s s frame, but the escape wheel at the top , the teeth come to a
�- - -- - -- - - - -- - ·- - - - - - - - - - -
24
razor snarp edge anu tna-c runs agairn:.t a p1 ece of steel tna.t I wou1d
say RocK\v·elJ_ haraened. to 6:> 0 ancl it v.:ill actually wear holec. in
that hardened piece of tool steel
whi~h
~ith
razor sharp edges .of brass
don ' t wear out and I can ' t figure that out .
(Laughter)
That ' s one tnat I don't figure out .
Q:
Maybe you can work on that .
A:
I believe I ' ll leave that for somebody else .
Q:
How , do you have trouble getting the materials you want or ao
you just take what you can get?
,
A:
The biggest thing is the expense of it .
Brass is high to buy
anymore , you know .
Q:
What about the wood?
A:
The walnut wcod that I make the cases out of , that ' s just about
out of the question anymore .
I happened. to ho.ve quite a bit of it
on hand., if that was gone I have no idea . where I'd get anymore cf
it .
Q:
Well, do you make you instruments from the same kind of wood .
A:
No ,
..L
make tnem , m2ke the instruments mcst of the time from
curly maple, a.nd spruce .
And it's native wood of th-'-s area .
My
fidale tops come from the highest mountain that I can get them
off of , White Top up here .
And that according to the old makers ,
I have alot of books on violin ma.king , I have one the Vio..t.in
En~
p1opedia and 1 have one on the German and Austrian violin maKers ,
the work of Antonia
Str~divariu s
and otners .
And they all se-
lected their wood from th e higl: mountF..ins, du.e to the slow growth
of the tree and that produced close sap rings around the spruce
that grew up on the high mountains and the wind would rock it
�;
25
year after year and it wpuld be more 1lex1b1e and you woulu get
Detter tonal quality and
bet~er
the maple ' s the same way .
wood from around here .
a cou s tics that way .
And I ' m sure
But this is a good area to get fiddle
Some of the be s t I ' ve ever had come from
the White Top Mountain over here .
Q:
A:
I~ '
s equal or bei::.ter to the Alpine Spruce .
iv1artin guitars ,
Martin is one of the leading gui ta1· makers they make the finest
guitars of any , made in this country you knew.
If they can on
their most expensive guitars , if they can po s sibly get it they use
Appalachian Spruce for the tops .
they can get
They can get Alpine
~pruce
ana
Spruce and other wooas , they can get any kind
of wood that can be had, but tney use Appalachian Spruce on the
tops of them .
Q:
Now , I want to ask you, I wa nt you to tell us how you became
famous .
I didn ' t
knov~
A:
WHAT!
Q:
uh , I re a d about you all the time .
A:
What .
Q:
We read about you .
A:
Oh , I gu e s s I ' m just different fr om oth8r people that ' s all .
I ' m not famous .
.Q:
I was .
(.laughter)
No .
Well , now if they take your music up to Maryland , I mean
that ..•.
A:
Oh, I ' ve liv e d up here a long
the best e:: planation I can hc.ve .
Q:
How did th ey find you?
ti n e, young ' uns , that ' s about
Mayb e a lot of people know me.
�. ' ., ..
.
~-
~
26
A:
I just happened to be at the wrong place at the right time , or
something .
Oh , I used to go out and play at the Fiddler ' s Conven-
tions that ' s the one good way th?t they learn you .
wouldn ' t have any idea hov1 many Fiddler '
c.:
I played , I
Conventions , you knov1 .
Too , I like to go to fairs and festivals and so on , especially I 'v e
been to the Richmond Fair dovm here , and stayed there for a week
to demonstrate riddle making there , you know .
me at the Smithsonian
Institutio~
And I , they wanted
and I kinda promised them that
I would go this sumr:ier , but I don ' t kno1 .
·.-
Q:
Well , now , how did tney know about you?
A:
Through some college down in North Carolina somewher e here .
A young fellow come up here and talked to me a whil e over there .
They wanted the fiadles and the clocks both there , but they wanted
to take enough machinery, you know, 'til I could be a show them
how both went .
I told him that I would go and that if t hey wanted
to haul my junky machinery up there why it would be alright with
me .
Q:
If they could find you.
A:
Yeah .
( laughter)
They kinda have to start a day ahead of
time to find me in here .
Q:
It ' s true .
Q:
Well , what will they do , set up a booth or something that ....
A:
Uh , huh .
That ' s what they had in mind .
mend Fair down there .
I went
Henderson the guitar maker .
a~ong
with thi s
1 enjoyed that Rich~ood
Ana we had alot of fun .
right together , had us some tables right close by .
of fun .
The wood carver ,
tie·
carver and Wayne
s quitE' a character .
We worked
We · had a world
�. .....
.
27
Q:
When did you start going to all this stu f1?
A:
Rigt1t within the laf'.t five or six years, I ' d say the arts and
crafts thing s I ' ve gotten interested in that .
And to the one at
always over to the one at Marion there I ' d take things
over there .
People learn you through that and it ' s a good place .
I never can keep any instruments to be ll , because my instrument s
leave here, I just turn loose of them when I get them done , that ' s
about it .
Hensley .
Now the last fiddle I made went to California to Harold
He ' s if'_ movie work out there.
for movies and all that stuff .
maae .
He plays back up music.
And I made him the last one I
It , out on , ordinarily where you see the scroll the curled
up thing out thert .
I had the Indian head carved on there that I
put on there on account of a very fine tune that he played called
the "Wild Indian , " you kne w.
One of his compositions no doubt .
the back I had in mother of pea rl and abalone shell
~orked
On
out a
I
hummingbird flying tov;ard a white flov.·er and it was a beautiful
thing .
the
Then I had a row of pearl around the top and it was one of
fini s hes like I like to put on rny in st rument s .
And
he was really thrilled with it .
When he got it , he T.ook it ana. haa
it, compared to one that cost
UOO , 1 believe it was .
$2L1
.,
him it ought to be a shame to compare my
of junk like that .
he sees me again .
( LEtu g,f1.l, e1 ·)
in ~t ruments
I told
to a piece
Sc, I 6ues[; he' 11 Ehoot me when
�· ---
- - - - - - - -- - - - - .
~
...
Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side C
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
We used to have a dance at somebody ' s house nearly every week ,
did~ ' t we darling (to his wife)?
There was not anything much
for entertainment other than things [like] dances and the music
and we made good use of that . And we ' d go to a house, say like
this ' un , with no more room that I have here , maybe 12 by 20
feet and there wouldn ' t be a whole big crowd like there would
be at a dance hall . There ' d be alot of people there , but not
too many would dance anyhow , just come to hear the music and
so on . They ' d just pick up the furniture and move it out of the
way and set here over in the corner and there it went . Girls on
one side of the house and the boys on the other and get that
dance started you know .
Would you play for them?
Yeah - played for thousands of them .
What did you do? (asking Mrs . Hash)
She was a dancer . I never did get to dance with her . That ' s
why I can ' t dance to this day .
But he had more fun trying (his wife) .
But I always did manage to take her home. I had to fiddle till
I was ready to fall out of the chair while she had a good time adancing . But I enjoyed every minute of it . Sbmetimes they'd
have corn shuckings . They would have a great pile of corn pulled
off with the husks all on it and they would tear into that and
shuck like mad, getting this all worked out so they could have
a dance after it was over . And beans, green beans you know ,
they ' d have to pull the strings off of them and break them up
~nd so on and they would bean s tringings, apple cuttings and
molasses boilings . That was the great thing , the molasses party .
You'd go out and there were these vat s . Did you ever see molasses
being made? There ' s be a vat about as long as that couch or a
little longer and it would take a horse and he pulled this mill
around and around and around . It had a little pole out there
and you tied it to his bridle and he d i dn ' t know but to follow
�----------
-
----
--- ------ - --
Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side C
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
that after they started him . It ' d lead that horse around and
around , leading himself around and around and around and it ' d
push that cane into these rollers and it would mash the juice
out of it and then it went into tte boiler and you ' d take skimmers , they look like a shovel or something with holes in the
bott om to keep all the green skimmings off of it and after a
while it would turn into a nice amber colored molasses . And then
when they all got taken up out of the boiler , we ' d get us a cane
stal k or a wooden paddle and sop that boiler with it . Get you
a bite out of it and it ' s good and sweet and then we ' d have
dances , maybe in a little meadow somewhere away from the cane
mills . For a couple of hours .
Would your parents come?
Oh yeah . Yeah , but they usually just sit back or paid no attention to you , you know . They ' d talk among themselves and it would
be just a good social gathering , no trouble . No nothing to
bother anybody . Everybody behaved and everybody had a good time .
What kind of dances did you dance?
It was mostly just old square dances , · wasn ' t it (to his wife ) ?
They used to have one called Virginia Reel and maybe now and
then we ' d have just a regular old flat foot dancer you know .
Now my wife ' s grandfather , he was a real good hand to dance the
old time flat foot dancing . He won one of the festiva l s up on
the white top here with his dancing . He was a tall man and wore
a big white handlebar moustache and wore leather boots made like
the old frontier boots you know . And he ' d stand up just as
st r aight as he could be and them boots would click out a tune
right there on that floor while you played " Arkansas Travelle r".
That ' s the tune that he liked to dance to .
Mrs . Hash : He wore suspenders , with his thumbs through them .
Mr . Hash : Yeah .
Can you flat foot? Is it like clogging?
It ' s a little bit different from clogging .
Mrs . Hash : It ' s more flat footing than anything .
Mr . Hash : Yeah , just more or less At the Galax Fiddler ' s Convention , they have flat footing?
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side
A.
Uh huh .
Q.
A.
Well what ever happened to these dances?
Wel~ ,
as time went along , the younger folks, they had to get
out away from here to go to work , to places , because there wasn ' t
any work .
Things begin to change and it was years and years that
the you ng folks , as soon as they got old enough to work on the
job, they left here .
That ' s what has hurt so bad , if they could
have all stayed around and about .
was gone about forty years .
My brother , he left here .
He
He lived in New Jersey and he c ame
back t o the upper end of Virginia .
He wanted to get back into
Vi rginia where he had some land up there .
a y ear ago , up there in Virginia .
He died last summer
That ' s where my brothers are
now , my two brothers that [are] living , they live up there , aroun d
App omatox and Linchbur g .
Q.
You were telling us ea r lier about your daughter learning how to
make inst r uments and things .
about that?
Why don ' t you tell us a little more
[That] you keep it in the family and soon will pass
it on .
A.
Well , she is· making some nice instruments now and I am trying to
teach her .
I don ' t know much about anything , butI ' m teaching her
everything I know about the instruments .
Q.
How old is she?
A.
She ' s 26 I guess now .
I raised two daughters .
what 30?
JO .
Uh , 26 , yeah
The other ' uh is ,
She lives out in Creston .
mad e a dulcimer but one is all she wanted to make .
in other ways .
She als o
She ' s gifted
She could have learned it alright but she puts
most of her spare time into church work and the teaching o f c hi ld r en .
She likes children , she has her Brownie Scouts and this
and that and the other .
But Audrey , she ' s the instrument maker
and she has two little daughters .
So Audr ey is getting ready ,
I think she is advanced in it enough now to try to make a fiddle
so I am going to fix her up for making a fiddle [ as] the next
instrument she makes .
Q.
Who are these pictures of?
A.
Mrs . Hash :
Thi s is Audrey , her husband ...
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side C
Q.
Oh, goodness, I thought they were all children .
A. Mrs. Hash: This is my other daughter and her family .
Q. What do you consider yourself? A craft s man, an artist ..• ?
A. Just an old hard working country boy, (laughing) that's been a
jack of all trades and not very good at anything I ' d say. I
guess the love of work, I think has really been what put me
through so many fields of it. I like to do things and I think
anybody that's blessed with a chance to do the things, the type
of work that he wants to do and is suited for is really wonderfully blessed that way. I never think of the work that I ' ve done
as being a job . It was a pleasure to me and was - it's more or
less like going to a fiddler's convention or something like that .
It ' s been just alot of interesting things . Never was boring. At
times you know, you'll have this and that and the other, little
frustrations of one kind and another, but my work as a whole has
been really interesting and something that I looked forward to
doing and felt like that I had really been blessed by being able
to follow up the things that I wanted to work at.
Q. So many people are unhappy with what they are doing, they are not
satisfied . Like today, do you have any suggesti ons for these
kind of people .
A. I would . We never know what's on the other side of the hill
till we go over there and look . I don't ever advise anybody to
do that kind of work which he is not qualified to do or which he
doesn't want to do, despi s es to do, for that would be a very
boresome life . To have to go out and do a job every day of your
working career that you didn't like to do. Say for instance, if
I had been a doctor, now that I wouldn't have liked at all.
Q. · Even if you made twice, three times ...
A. Three times the money - that's beside the point. If you do what
you want to do, for after all , I would say happiness in what you
are doing, being satisfied in what you are doing is well worth
more than that money. I could never have been a coal miner, I
could never have been a farmer and been satisfied . The only
things I liked about farming - I liked to raise little pigs and
l \
�--- - - - ------
Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side C
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
calves and things like that you know . And I like bees that I
could keep and have . But I didn ' t care anything about any other
crops , didn ' t care enough about it to even remember from one year
to the next how much fertili z er I should buy for an acre for oats
or corn or anything. I just wa s n ' t, had no, absolutely no interest in it at all .
Well , do you think people , when you were growing up, went ahead
and did the things more that they wanted to do than people are
doing today? I know a lot of people now that are just doing
things that they really don ' t want to do .
I ' m sure that that's been true all the way along but I think this
day age with so many fields open , that that person should not
bore himself long to work at something that he doesn ' t like or
doesn ' t feel that he ' s going to be satisfied or have a growing,
big interest in , because I think he should go over on the other
side of the hill and get him something else to do . Try, try again
till you find what you ar e well qualified for .
Well , what would you think if someone wanted to start making
instruments or do some kind of carving or something , do you think
it has to be something sort of in you, a talent , or can they just
learn it?
That would help immensely, but I think that, no , every person
would not be an instrument maker . We have certain people that
are qualified for one thing . Now maybe he could paint a nice
picture , but give him a bunch of tools and he ' d only cut his
fingers with them . It would be just as different for me, say
for instance, I tried to do something with electricity , which I
cannot - I can only put batteries in a flashlight - all I know
·about electricity i s to leave it alone . My brother-in-law comes
and does everything for me like t hat , that I need . He wired this
till it works from all direction s , you know . And where ever I
have this light turned on at, I ca n turn it on from my switch
there . Now I can ' t see how he ev e r ca n learn that, so there ' s
no way that I coul d do that and I ha ve tri ed to learn it from
books and I can ' t catch onto a thing in the world . There ' s just
nothing for me to see th e r e . And as I said, I can feel it but I
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side C
can ' t
see
that .
If I get into it I ' ll find out that I shouldn ' t
have been messing with it in the first place.
So let the artist
paint a picture and the craftsma n , he can do whatever type of
thing he likes to do .
another .
Some maybe would like one thing and some
But if a man likes to build houses then he wouldn ' t be
satisfied down in the coal mine somewhere .
there building a nice home for somebody .
He wants to be up
I think that a person
should keep looking till they find something that is interesting
to them and that they can be interested in all the way through
their working career .
Then it won ' t hurt you to work .
If your
work doesn ' t make you tired, it won ' t hurt you, but if you go
out to something that you have to do and it makes you tired and
you go out there with a bad outlo ok on life then I think if you
follow it up, that life is going to be short if you keep it up .
I don't think anybody should ever , at any time , should ever knuckle
down and work on something they don ' t like to do .
Our country
has too many things to offer , too many fields are open for them .
Maybe one would like to be a doctor or a dentist, another a mini ster , another a black s mith or a machinist or what have you .
they can ' t swap places .
And
You might find one once in a while that
can do these other things , but he has his own thing in the long
run that he would rather do than something else .
So I think he ' ll
live longer and be much happier .
Q.
Mr. Ha sh , are you going to play us a song?
A.
Oh, I'll make a big noise .
Q.
Well, let me ask you one more thing before you do it .
I don ' t do much playing music .
Can you
tell us any outstanding things that have happened to you that you
can r emember right off hand .
~usician
A.
Like as an instrument maker or
- particular things you remember .
I've had lots more happen in th e line of my machinist ' s work
than anything else .
Q.
A.
Machinist?
Uh huh . I ' ll tell you one story on that line .
When I worked
for Brunswick , they needed a tube ma king machine that would weld
mylore and they gave their engineers about $5 , 000 or $6,000 t o
�------
---
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--
--------
Albert Hash
Tape 2, Side C
that thing, welding as it went, you know . It was a little piece
of inch and a quarter wide mylore and when that piece went through
there I sent it dovm to the foot of the hill, down where these
boys were working with that other and asked them if that looked
like about anything they could use (laughing). So one of the
engineers came up there in my shop you know , and my shop was only
a two-man shop . I had an apprentice boy that worked under me and
he never opened his mouth and there it was covered up with a
piece of tarp there and he wanted to borrow something . I can't
remember what it was now, but that was his excuse to get into the
shop. He thought he was going to get to see that thing. I didn't
have it, whatever it is and he went off and in a little while he
was back and he wanted to borrow something else and he paced
around here and he looked this way and he looked that way and I
could tell all the time that something was wrong you know. But
he wasn't a-going to tell me anything . And I told him I didn't
have whatever it was that he wanted that time you know, and I
didn't. It was probably something I never heard tell of, but anyhow when he made his third trip back, he said , " Would you mind
demonstrating to me how you made that piece of tubing? " I said,
"Well, I'll be glad to." And I just went and pitched that old
cover off that machine and it was a little compact rig about
that long, and I plugged it in and had to wait just a few minutes
for the heat to come on you know, so it was welding with a simple
little soldering iron that I had turned a little wheel and put
out on the hot end of it out here to roll over that mylore and
it just welded it together as pretty as you please. I had a
variak on it which regulated the amount of heat that would come
in · on it. And he got down on the floor and looked at that thing.
And he looked at it and looked at it and he said , "According to
science , this thing is not supposed to work ." I said , "According
to science a bumble bee is not supposed to fly, but it does."
And I ran him off several pieces of it. I could run it the length
of my shop which is about 60 feet and if I opened the door, I
could put . it to the end of the hill to the m dovm there , you know.
�-----Albert Hash
Tape 2, Side C
And they forgot their machine.
They never did anything more to
it, but they made me get a patent on t hat.
I didn't want a patent
on ·it, I didn't want any publicity on it or - I didn't ask any
favors.
All I wanted to do was my day's work you know.
all I ever cared about.
I didn't want any credits for anything.
"Oh, you must have a patent," they s aid.
want any patent.
That's
I said, "No, I don't
I don't ever intend to manufacture those things."
"Yeah, but you need a patent on it," they said.
I said, "No, I
wouldn't fill out a bunch of papers to get a patent on that.
I
know it's going to run into a bunch of paperwork and that I can't
stand - to hear papers rattle."
So they brought the papers up,
"Now fill these out, we want to get you a patent on that.
ought to have a patent."
And I wouldn't fill them out.
You
And they
come gathered the papers up and went and filled them out.
come back and said would you sign thi s .
And
I signed my name on it.
They gave me a dollar for my patent on it.
It belongs to Bruns-
sick but they can't ever ma nufa ctur e without my signing for it
you know,
i~
they should ever wa nt to manufacture a machine like
that, which they won't, no doub t .
But that was one - just one.
There's been many many of them.
He begins to tune his fiddle ...
Sometimes one head is as good as a do z en in something like that
and sometimes I think it is better because one man can work out,
he can work the details out on anything so much better than a
dozen can because they are all looking from a different angle at
what you are doing.
And one will see this thing and another will
see that thing and they finally agree to disagree on everything and
that's what slowed our works down a whole lot.
involved in something, it begins to drag.
If too many people
I think if you put it,
anything like that in the hand s of a f e w, y ou'll come out much
better in the long run.
And too, I believe, now I'm not downing
education in any way, you know, I think it's a wonderful thing, I
wish I could've got a lot more of it than wha t I did, but I think
people have studied too much, the y t hink t oo much, they run out
yonder and they don't see the s impler way s o f doing things.
They
go way out yonder and they come b a ck with an elaborate piece of
machinery which as I said, you could take the near cuts and do
�- ..-:·' - ... - - - - - - ..
'·
.'
Albert Hash
Tape 2, Side C
A.
just like I did.
Their machine was an impressive looking thing
but it didn't work, that was the worst part of it.
Q.
That's really something.
~.
You get too complex with things sometimes.
I think alot of our
things that we have in this day and age are that way.
that they don't work.
So much
Q.
What can be done about it?
A.
Simplify everything.
Q.
How do you get people to go along with it?
A.
It's hard to do.
Q.
Just show them like you did.
A.
That's the only way and then what are they going to take from a
Q.
man that never - I don't have any diplomas to hang up anywhere.
But you have originality.
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Alot of those people that have diplomas - they have the education
but they don't have the originality.
A.
That's what I think hurt in that case there.
They couldn't
actually see that thing working there .
Q.
You've got alot of ribbon s too .
A.
Those are the ones I got away from the judges.
fast.
Why don't you tell us about them.
I can run pretty
(laughing)
Q.
Why don't you tell us about some of those.
A.
Well, alot of hard fiddling went into those.
And alot of fun.
Got to meet alot of fiddlers, both blue grass and the old timey.
Lost many of an hour's sleep over those things.
Q.
What?
A.
No, just being there.
Worrying?
We'd go and stay all night.
·wouldn't get back until daylight, you know.
Sometimes I
And one time I got
my car off the road over back of this mountain here in the fog
and didn't make it home till about nine o'clock the next day.
I went through [a] flood to get to one of them .
Oh, I'd go fur-
ther to a fiddler's convention when I was a younger man than most
people would to elections.
Q.
What happened with that flood?
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side C
A.
Oh , I got started out , [and] decided to stop over there at Sugar
Grove . I came down from the plant and was going to eat my supper,
you know , and then go on out to the fiddler ' s convention , which
was out in a place they called Adwolf over there . And I looked
back out that way and it was so dark you know and raining - Boy
it was ever more than a- storming out in there . I decided , well ,
I ' ll go on and I had my supper and I started on out through
there and I finally got to seeing water in the road and I kept
venturing along and finally at last there was nothing but water .
And the car - I didn ' t know what to do . I came to a bridge and
I didn ' t know whether the bridg e was there or not - I could see
part of the railing sticking up, you know ...
( Part of the conversation lost as the tape ran out on one side .)
..• let him pass me right here and I stopped my car and he waited
a while for me to go on but I wouldn ' t go on and he finally tried
to go on and I followed him out that road and there was water in
the fields. There was water in the road . And sometimes it was
way up towards the floor of the car and .I decided that if I ever
'
got to a place where the ground was high enough , you know that ' s
low level country out there , I will stay in that thing till this ·
water goes down and I ' ll turn it around and go back home . But
after I got to the high ground , I saw I was getting up above the
flood and I went on to the fiddler ' s convention . On that very
next morning , coming out of there , that ' s when it rained and got
so foggy I couldn ' t see . The highway wasn ' t marked , you know , and
there ' s no way in the world - I drove with my head sticking out
the window till I was drowned nearly and thought , well if I could
, get to the top of this hill , the fog will be lighter , or something
or other , and I felt my car bumping over the rocks and I ' d got
off the road on the lower side . I sat there till daylight . But
I ' d say the one fiddler ' s convention that has meant most to me
and the one little ribbon that I got from that which is about the
least , scrawniest I ' ve got - wa s the one from Galax . I ' d always
wanted to win something down t here . I got down there and I
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side D
believe there was 164 fiddlers to fiddle again .
I decided well,
it looks like a slim chance of getting anything here but when I
went out there I went out for the kill you know .
stage .
Right on the
Now that was a fiddler's convention like they are supposed
to be had .
You went out and played just the one instrument , you
weren ' t backed up by a guitar or a banjo or something like that .
You went out there all by yourself and you played .
~I
really gave
it everything I had but there ' s one other fella - he had it won
befo r e he played .
Joe Greene - he ' s in television .
Has had
a lot of records with the major companies , you know , and so on .
But Joe , he went out with a flashy green suit with alot of fanc y
trimmings on it and all that stuff and they began to scream before he played you know , and naturally he got first place .
I was satisfied to get anything .
But
Now that was on about a Friday
and then I didn ' t have to play till Saturday I don't believe .
Yeah , I had to play Thursday and Saturday .
Then on Sunday morning ,
getting away towards daylight I had decided to go .
I didn ' t look
to win anything myself you kno w, but I just couldn ' t leave that
place .
Everytime I ' d start to leave , somebody would play some-
thing pretty on the fiddle up there on that stage and I ' d just
have to go back .
I started about three times to my car , you know
to leave , I ' d decide well , it can ' t hurt nothing to stay a little
longer and it ' ll be daylight a-driving home .
It had rained and
the mud was about four inche s deep there and Wayne Henderson ,
he and I had just kind of gotten out towards the side of the
stage and hunkered down in that mud resting , and we were pretty
well r eady to rest , and they began to call out the winners and
when they called my name there I couldn ' t hardly remember whether
, it was me or somebody else .
But I went up and got my r ibbon and
that I think was what helped me you know .
be as good a loser as I was winner .
But I always tried to
I never have played at any
of them and ever thought that I really deserved anything .
I
always thought the other fella' s mu s ic sounded lots better than
mine and I never - I always jus t t o ok the judges ' decision about
anything like that, but ...
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side D
. ;
Q.
How do they decide?
A.
Well, they usually have three judges and they judge them on point s .
Your tuning, your performance and showmanship .
different things .
'
to judge them .
There ' s several
I ' ve judged a couple myself, you know , helped
And it is one headache .
You get about 25 up
there that all play so near alike that you couldn ' t tell any difference in them you know .
And maybe - if one doesn ' t stick out
better than the rest like a sore thumb - you just don't hardly
know who to give that to .
You can just do your utmost to be as
honest and fair and square as you can and there wouldn't be any
way that you would know exactly who should win that .
It ' ll give
you a headache .
Q.
Why don't you play a little for us now?
A.
Okay.
(Begins to tune fiddle)
Is that all you do now? Working with wood and stuff ... You don't
Q.
work at a job now .
A.
I don ' t go out to a job anymore .
October a year ago .
Q.
I haven't worked since last
I ' ve just piddled around here and so on .
Get in Ethel's way while she ' s working .
Well, do peep.le come i.;_ pretty often to get you to show them
p
how to make something?
A.
Oh yeah , I give alot of advice .
age , David Sturgill?
If you remember a fella about my
David has a_,guitar factory down here in
Allegheny County and it ' s quite a factory too .
hundreds of guitars a year there .
He can manufacture
He had two boys , Johnny and
Danny, twin boys, that helped him and he takes ih apprentices ,
which are students that want to learn the makircg of instruments
and they work in there .
He starts them out in the rougher works
and then wo rks them up tc where they can handle the finished product s you kno w.
Alot of these young folks come up from his fac-
tory there, boys and girls .
He dcesn 't fool much with violins
you know and they like to learn something about violins , about
violin making, and so on and I tell them how it ' s all done and
show them and I always hav e them in all stages of completion and
give them a good start on hew to make one .
I made one for one of
the boys down there - a real good instrument.
It turned out real
�:·
Albert Hash
Tape 2, Side D
good and he really treasures it . I always have names for my
instruments you know . I name them after my grandchildren and
this and that and the ether . This one particular one I felt kind
of, I had tried it out , I try them out before I put the varnish
on and this was a good instrument and I said what am I going to
narr,e this one? And then he came to me " vlhy don ' t you name it
something appropriate? " I said okay I ' 11 just ca l l it the Screaming.
Witch . (laughing) And so I named it the Screaming Witch and when
I finished it , I finished it in blood red . Oh , it was red , that
fiddle .
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
You named it after your wife? (laughter)
She claimed I did . But I didn ' t think of her just then . I
thought she was pretty clever to think about it . ( laughter ) But
I had named mandolins and banjos and this and that and the other
after my grandchildren . He really likes his instrument and he ' s
doing good on playing it . I get to teach him a wh6le lot about
the making of the instrt..ment~; and so on . And too , I will hunt
him up and give him the wood .
Well , would you take on somebody as an apprentice?
Uh , I couldn ' t hardly , if I intended to do that on any big scale ,
I wouldn ' t mir.d doing that . But since I don ' t have any more
stock or any more room than I do , why I ' ll tell them anything that
I can to help them out but I wouldn ' t have enough work at all to
get it to that big a thing . Because I like to keep it to where
it would just be , more or less , a hobby and a pleasur e . But if
I went into it as a way to make money out of it then I could do
it , but I don ' t care if I make any money out of it or not . So I
just make them you know . I like to teach them . I always figured
that the best thing s c f life were t he free things c>.nd if I can
pass on anything that I have happened to stagger on and learn to
somebody else that will help them , I ' ve done nothing other than
my duty .
Mrs . Hash : He make s alot of tapes for these people that come from
all around that make tapes of him a-playing the old time tunes
you know . So they can learn from ttat , don ' t you Albert?
�- - -·- - - -
Albert Ha s h
Tape 2 , Side D
A.
Q.
A.
Yeah . To help t hem to l e a rn to play the fiddle . Because they
like the old traditi onal way of pla ying . I had a gr eat uncle that
was a fiddler and one of the be st . He could play the best of
anybody I have ever heard and he ~a s a l ong , tall , straight fella ,
wore a vest and he ' d but ton tha t v est up t c th e last button and
then he ' d pull it back and stick that fiddle back there . That ' s
the way he held it and he ' d just miss hi s face with that bow just
by a very littl e , you know a nd how h e could play one of them .
.. i inaudible s ection of tape} .. He could heat anybody I ' d ever heard
of . I ' d of liked to hear him when he wa s younger and r eally active
in playing .
Well , do you like classical music with the violins?
I like violin music of any kind but the only music that I understand , now I don ' t know a note in music, not one note do I know .
It ' s just the music of the mountains here , the music that I was
brovght up with a s I came along and heard these old fiddlers
playing . I learned that and then the blue grass came along , I
decided to learn that and then I decided I didn ' t want to learn
it , that I wanted to keep my old traditional kind of music as pure
and as unadulturated as I possibly could . I don ' t try to learn
blue grass , I don't try to learn any of t he new stuff that comes
out . I just keep back and I ' ve got records , I ' ve got hundreds of
records you know . Several hundred of them of fiddlers from all
over this country and even some from out of it . But unless it ' s
my kind , I don ' t pay any attention to it much . I like to hear it
now , just for entertainment , but I don't try to learn it , any of
it because every locality had its bunch of tunes and I have several of the old original tunes from around here . I have one
from down here [in] Crumpler, North Carolina , that ' s just over the
line . You know , my grandfather had a cousin that was a lady
fiddler and she played a tune called "Nancy Blevins" and he
danced , he was two years old and still wearing a dress like little
boys wore back in the old days . And he danced with his dress on
to the tune of " Nancy Blevins" and he told me about it and I
heard a fella play it one time and I got him to teach me this s o
I could remember i t on account of t ha t and one about the
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side D
.. ~ inaudible section of tape} .. I know that one too and then I was
acquainted with alot of the older musicians.
Henry Whittier was
a r ecording artist and I played with him after his buddy GB Grayson
was · killed .
He got killed in action , I [had] played with him
and Whittier , he (Whittier) was one of the early recording artists you know .
He recorded in , I believe it was Camden or Trenton ,
New Jersey and then someplace in Georgia then , Atlanta , Georgia
I believe it was .
We were going to record some records at that
time , I was only a lad , but Mr . Whittier ' s health got bad and he
finally wound up in the institution you know and died right away .
And I never have had any desire to make records or anything .
They are at me he r e lately and I recorded , well I recorded alot
for the Library of Congress , but I never wanted to go out and p l ay
musi c for a living or go on the road with it .
That would have
made a job out of it and I didn ' t want that and I didn ' t want to
make records .
I have had several bands together that could have
cut some good records you know .
But we didn ' t
care enough about
it to go ahead and do it because - well , [we] just didn ' t do it
fo r that reason you know .
It wasn ' t a money making thing .
never think of it as something to make money with .
I
Right lately
I have recorded two tunes that - You people may have run into him
somewhere or other ,
(name inaudible) who
recorded for the Library of Congress and he got at me to record
some .
There ' s about , (to his wife) what , about 16 or 18 different
ones?
that pla;ed tunes on this one album that he was trying to
gather up of the mountain music .
And I played two tunes on that
which will be on Rounder Records .
And t he paperwork [and] the
contracts - just signed [them] and didn ' t mess with them , y ou know .
A~d
then this mountain record , we have practiced to make an album
for mountain rec ords .
He wants the old tunes that hardly anybody
every plays any:no re . And I ' ve g ot about twelve or fourteen tunes
of that kind t ha t we ' l l put on that r e cord with the old five st r uments like they had back t hen , you know .
That should be a
p retty good ' un for them that want to learn the old time music
b e c ause it will be in its purity .
There won ' t be any half played
�- - - - ---- -- --
----
Al be rt Hash
Tape 2 , Side D
stuff in it or anything .
I don ' t mean that I ' m any great fiddler
o r anything , but it will be , the notes u sed in the right way ...
( tuning his fiddle )
'
So when we get that done , we should have had it already , but the
weather ' s been so bad up here and we ' d have to go down to Galax
to this fella ' s recording facilities . And he ' s getting old .
Q.
I don ' t understand about the Library of Congress .
are recording for it?
A.
Yeah , they have this big library of recorded music and folk
I mean , you
music , folk lore and what have you , you know , and that is just
like a book library in a way .
Q.
It ' s up here in Washington , D. C.
Ma r ion - I r emember they were here in Asheville and Columbia .
J ane - No , I didn ' t know that , I never heard a thing about it .
A.
And you can go there .
If you should go there and say I would
like to hear a tune by or some music by Albert Hash , they can
hunt that up right quick and play it for you .
And too , alot of
it is kept kind of as a record would be kept .
So much of i t
goes into cylinders and is deposited in certain safe keeping
vaults to be 'played , say if time should go on , in a thou sand
y ears from now , it ' ll still be ready to play .
They came over
here , to Wayne Hender s on ' s father , Walter Henderson , he was an
old time fiddler and they recorded quite a bit of him .
And Slim
Ball , you ' ve probably heard his gospel ...
Mrs . Hash :
Mr . Hash :
E . C. Ball I guess you might know him by .
Yeah .
Music from him and his wife .
They reco r ded
alot , years ago , for the Library of Congress . Now they are re co r ding alot on their own . They live just across the hills ther e .
Q.
How long ago did you do this for the Library of Congress?
A.
Six or seven years ago .
( tuning his fiddle)
Q.
The bow is not made out of horsehair , is it?
Oh , this last one was last summer .
(laughing )
Did you catch the horse?
A.
They have tried everything , even fiberglas s , nylon , rayon and
everything else to try to make bows , but nothing will work like
that ho r se hair .
'i
�•.
Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side D
Q.
Well, I thought you just did that, that you didn ' t really know
it was horsehair .
~twas
A.
No ,
~
that I got acquainted with at the arts and crafts festival .
horsehair .
There ' s a lady who has a bunch of horses
In
grooming her horses , she cut out alot of their tails and she sent
me a r oll of horsehair - oh , that big around .
Mrs . Hash :
Mr . Hash :
Alot of it was too short wasn ' t it?
Uh huh .
To fill these bows is quite a little trick ,
to put the hair in them you know .
And keep it straight .
Q.
It doesn ' t need to be white horsehai r though?
A.
No , it can be black or it can be a sorrel or bay o r any kind ,
as long as it ' s horsehair it does the same .
Q.
You made that too ( referring to the bow)?
A.
No , I didn ' t make the bow . We don ' t have a native wood s u itable
fo r mak ing the bows . This bow stick must be a ve r y stro·ng wood
to stand the pressure of that hair and still hold its shape in
here .
Now , I ' ve made bows out of rosewood but we don ' t have a
native wood that is suitable for making a fiddle bow .
You either
get , some people pronounce it Perna'mbico and some Pernamb~k~ wood .
It ' s f r om , it ' s Brazil wood to make the bows out of and most of
the bows that are made are imported .
[There are] not any bow-
makers in this country I ' d say that amount to anything .
do have some first class violin makers around about .
But we
Two that I
know of , one that I was acquainted with was Scott Herman , he was
a German fel l a that had a violin shop in Washington , D.C.
When
I was up there he wanted me to work with him but I was tied up
there with that Navy .
with him up there .
I would have given anything to have worked
He ' d go and open that vault up where he had
his inst r uments and he had some out .
The wood was , I believe he
said the wood was five or six hundred years old . Some of the boys
had sent him some wood out the Abbey of Cocina , one the of the
spruce beams from the Second World War when they tore the mona stery down over there .
was .
This monastery in Italy , I believe it
They sent him some wood and he had made the top
(inaudible ) out of that wood and he was getting about $1400 . each
for the fiddles made out of that then , you know .
Work wasn ' t so
�Albert Hash
Tape 2 , Side D
high as it is now ...
(tuning his fiddle)
Now I may be stiffer than an old working mule for I ' ve not tried
to play any since I was over to the college ...
Continued on Tape 3 - playing his music .
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Hash, Albert
Interview Date
2/5/1976
Number of pages
48 pages
Date digitized
9/19/2014
File size
32.7MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
f115dd3ecdebb91ef91196e20b9b7f4c
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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111_tape337_AlbertHash_transcript_M
Title
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Interview with Albert Hash [Feburary 5, 1976]
Language
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English
English
Type
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Document
Creator
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Hash, Albert
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Appalachian Region, Southern--Social life and customs--20th century
Violin--Construction--Appalachian Region, Southern
Clock and watch making--Appalachian Region, Southern
Hash, Albert
Description
An account of the resource
Albert Hash began making things out of wood at a young age. He had a dream as a child about making a fiddle, and did the best he could with the tools he had and a plank of wood. He continued to perfect his wood-working and carving skills and began to make more instruments. He also worked in clock making, farmed for a short time, and went to school for mechanical engineering.
Albert Hash
Alexandria
Ashe County
banjos
Brunswick
childhood dances
clock making
clocks
corn shucking
curly maple
David Sturgill
farming
fiddle
fiddle making
Fiddler's Convention
flat footing
guitar making
Havre-De-Grace
Lansing
Library of Congress
machine shop
machinist
mandolins
mechanical engineering
Richmond Fair
Ringling Brothers Circus
Smithsonian Institute
Sprague Electric Company
spruce
square dancing
Sugar Grove
Timberline Magazine
Virginia
Virginia Reel
Virginia Supply Company
walnut wood
Wayne Henderson
White Top Mountain
wood carving
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/80c6e96d868d6434c97a40f9fdd09bb7.pdf
6dba4c07388efb0ee777cee6ec3e21a4
PDF Text
Text
MR . & MRS • ALLEN TOWNSEND
(Note.
Q:
Here the answere are from Mrs. Townsend)
What do you first r emember about the Depression?
How did you lmow it had
starte ?
A:
Well, food always- got so high .
It looked like you didn ' t have enough money
to go cwound, I guess , and you just got the notions of things like that .
Q.
Were you not liVli:ng somewhere w
here you could make your own food?
Did you
have to but it . ?
Ai
It's been for a few years that now at first we raised our own food and , you .
know, we had our own chickens and raised our own meat like that , but then we jus t
couldn 1 t do that so we 1 d just have to have money to buy it .
to work .
I ' ve worked myself to death .
Then Allen got unable
You know, with young ' uns you just can ' t
get out to do.
Q:
Was there anything besides the high prices that you knew that the Depression
was starting?
A:
Well, I re
ot .
It was just everything, you lmow , seemed different and a
shortage of everything .
Q:
What were sane of the things that you, that were hard to get, find , or buy?
A:
Well , I just don •t lmow.
Se emed like that we didn 1 t have much of anything
or couldn ' t get much of anything or something .
Back then there just wasn ' t much
work for anybody to do and we lived in Ashe County at that time .
awfully sick
just coul
1
t
d she had double pneumonia .
.. d1y g t to the doctor .
My mother was
She was going to die and , you lmow,
At that time it was hard .
daddy worked , on a school .gym at Fleet wood and he had to walk .
He worked ,
It ' s four miles
�2
there and
our miles back .
o ' clock in the mornin
~o
That's ei
t
Ue
get there in time .
got back and he was always so give out .
a
and he had to leave at four
It was alw
after dark when he
We young ' µns woul
ork in the crops
So , we cut wood ta make hea:b
around there at hane and we had to cut firewood o
and bad to carry our own water, for a right smart ways .
They couldn ' t hardly
make enough to buy soap and Mama would make ho.memade soap ; make it in a big
kettle to wash our clothes with .
Q:
What kind of crops did you raise?
A:
W
ell, we raised about everything that they could raise .
We raised potatoes ,
corn, cabbage, and we'd make corn bread out of the corn that we raised and we ' d
make what you call himiney out of it and then we canned a lot of stuff .
we dried apples .
Then
I can remember Mama drying a pumpkin, cutting it in rings and
hanging it on sticks over the fireplace to dry.
Q:
What did she do with them .
A:
Take it and cook it .
Make pumpkin pies for us to eat and dry apples and make
dried apple pies .
Q.
So , did you have enough to eat then at this t
A:
W
ell, we had plenty to eat, I reckon, and the way we managed it , you know,
'l
had to do the same thing .
Q.
Did you have to buy anything?
Was there anything that you had to buy'l
Well, there were a lot of people that raised wheat that made their own flour ,
but we ddidn ' t raise any wheat, so we had to buy our own flour , you know, and sugar .
The salt and stuff, fix something to eat and they used to be something like
chicory that people would raise to be a plant .
It would grow in great long roots
�3
and they called it chicory and people would dry that and grind i t up and make
coffee, chicory coffee .
They call it coffee, but it really wasn ' t .
They ' d
take it and percolate, or boil it in a pot like they did all their c offee .
Bout everybody in our neighborhood would raise that and make their own coffee .
There would be a lot of young people now that never heard tell of that .
They
wouldn ' t know what I 1d be talking about and you might not .
Q:
No , I never heard of it .
fas the flour and the sugar and all that hard to
find during the Depression?
A:
Yes , it was .
Q:
Where did you get the money or how dfri you get it?
A:
Well, a lot of times we gathered herbs .
How did you buy it?
Dried herbs like cherry bark and
we 1d pull big wood leaves and skin bi g
ood bar •
thing else to do he would go out in t.
woods and mountains , you know, and cut
When Daddy couldn ' t get any-
the cherry poles and those big wood poles and the closes t one would bring them
home and he ' d chop them up into firewood lengths and we ' d burn them , skin them
in the house of the night .
dry that .
Then burn the wood part of the day and you ' d have to
Some times it would take about a week, you know, to dry the bark and
the leave •
Q.
What did urou do with it?
A:
There was a lot of sang in the mountains .
called it .
I reckon it still grows .
They called it ginseng is what they
I haven ' t seen any in a long time , but we
were always •••• Now there was something you gathered mullen and when it began to
get dry it would stick you up .
bath .
Q:
What was it?
You just had to change your clothe s and take a
�4
A:
I don't know .
It was a little old fuzz or something, you know, and it would
get on you and just itch you to death .
Q:
Was there anything that you can think of that was good about the Depression?
A:
No , I think that everything was bad .
Q:
Well, what was the worst thing about it?
A:
Well, in clothes and food you just didn't have the money to buy it with and
you really couldn 1 t get it because it ;just wasn't there .
Q:
Well , did you or your mother make, your own clothes?
A:
Mama went and made our own clothes and she didn ' t even have a sewing mach-
ine.
She had to sew
with her fingers, or maybe there would be a neighbor some-
where around that would have a sewing machine that didn 1t mind, but usually people
just didn ' t have time for a neighbor to come in, sit down , and stay all day and
sew .
So , she would sew with her fingers and make our clothes and they would
make long dresses that really took more .
so hard .
I guess that was the reason times were
It took more to make the clothes because the dresses were way down to
your feet, you know, had big collars to them .
It really took a lot of material
to make clothes , now you can take a little bit just so your legs are had in it.
Q:
Where did you get the cloth?
A:
Well, thake and but it in
have now .
the town, city.
They didn't have cloth like they
What you could get, it was awfully hard to iron .
then, you lmow.
I wonder what we did make it out of .
varieties of material, you know, like they have now .
I didn 1 t notice it
They didn't have different
A lot of people that raised
sheep would make their own wool, you know , to knit socks and sweaters and things.
Q
:
What do you think caused the Depression?
�s
A:
Well, I just. don ' t know .
Q:
Did you hear any people around blaming any certain people for the Depression1
Ai
No , I don ' t remember if they did .
He was the Republican pres dent .
A lot of people blamed Hoover, you know .
A lot of pe9ple blamed him, because I heard
them say that he had a lot of grain thrown in the ocean that the poor people
could have usedo
It would have made it more plenti'ful, you know , wheat , in the
community.
Q:
They said he threw grain in the ocean?
A:
Instead of giving it out they did that , you know, to make the prices go up .
Q:
Did they, was that true or was the just what the people used to tell?
A:
W
ell, now ! don ' t know if it was true , but that is what they all said .
They
said what made the meat prices go up , they killed a lot of the animals when they
were little .
They didn ' t have feed to feed them.
I think in something like that,
if they managed it right, try to help everybody get a start to have sanething,
because it ain ' t everybody that is poor because they want to be .
Qa
So , did the local, what were the local at titudes towards the leaders of the
government?
A:
W
ell, I just don!.t remember much about them then , because we always lived back
from anybody else and didn ' t have much .
Then young ' uns didn ' t pay any attention
to what they. . . _-_ _ •
Q:
How were the farmers, what was their situation during the Depression?
Do you
thinlc they felt any differently than the people who didn ' t farm?
A:
Yes , because if they that farmed really fared better because they didn ' t have
to buy, you know, all that stuff o It really made a difference all the way around .
�6
Give the farmer some of his money back and give the people , you lmow, something
to eat that they woul dn ' t have had .
Q:
Did you ever sell any of your crops other than the herbs that you collected?
A.
No , not too many, because we were always renters , had the farm on the shares
and usually our part, it would take it, for us to eat .
was the farm that you were on?
Q
:
How big
A:
Well , it would just be small farms that we would be on .
Sometimes it would
be about fi'fteen acres of corn , and then maybe five acres of potatoes , or something like that .
Well , by the time the owner of the land would get his share out
of i t , we wouldn ' t have too much to sell.
We usually always had same potatoes and
beans , to sell .
Q:
How did you think the tenant system worked?
A:
W
ell, you could rent a place and you ' d get house rent .
of the stuff, they ' d give you half of what you made .
If you furnished half
If you couldn't affarEl to
pay for farming equipment, they'd pay for it and you could just end it .
That's
a preetty bad thing, because you had to work a whole lot to make all that .
would taice all your time to aake it .
It
Then , however , it was havested and divided
you didn ' t get much by getting a tmird of it .
So , if ycu were a big family,
you'd have to be careful to make it go around , you know , to do until it was raised
again .
thl~
Q:
Were there very many people doing
A:
Yes , there were a lot of people doing that .
during the Depression?
SeliU!lea to me like that there just
weren ' t too many people that did own their places .
all thouMt was wealthy.
It would be sanebody that we
Maybe there would be two or three tenants on one farm .
The one that did the renting, that owned it, he really come out pretty good , having
�7
several different people .
Q:
Did he sell crops?
A:
Yes , he would sell.
Q:
Did he sell maybe part of the CI'9PS that you harvested really?
A:
Yes , and take it off, maybe to the cities , the town .
were just small and maybe one or two stores .
could take .
Back then the
to~ms
They ' d but everything that you
Then the people that didn 't have it, would come and but it fDom them o
Q:
.Ih you remember any of the work proje cts that were started?
A:
Yes , I can renember that but not until I grew up and got married .
I had t wo
twin brothers so everything was gettin pretty well organized when they got up ,
you know , old enough to work .
Do you remember any of the things that these people on projects did?
A:
I don ' t .
Q:
Were there any other efforts that were made to help recover from the Depression?
A:
I think that what came out when there wasn ' t anything mcuh .
Now what was thi s
Democratic President after Hoover? What was his name?
Q:
Roosevel.t ?
A:
Now it seemed to me like whenever he got in, things began to change .
~an
to build these buildings for schools .
to good .
They be-
That gave people jobs but it didn ' t pay
They ept on until ••• I think they just changed the nam .of it about
the same time .
That was baxk when they started it , that building the gymnasiums
and bigger schools , different room.
Now, back when I went to school , it was
just a one room school building arJI they went from the first grade to seventh .
�8
O
.:
W your father on one-. of the work programs?
as
A:
Yes, that was where he had to work to walk eight miles a day.
miles there and four miles back .
He had to leave at four o 1 clock and cane in at
I don ' t know what time it was .
dark .
It was four
He was so far away, he had to take a light
of the morning to see how to go and we live in Ashe C
omty and that was down at
Fleetwood, you know, where tmy built .
Q:
What was the nome of it where they worked?
A:
It wasn't W . A.
.P
husban
used to
e
They had that going on when I was grown and married .
My
r k on i •
?
A
t
Yes , when me and him were married and then he quit after we got married .
Q:
Was the Depression about over by then?
A:
rle~ ,
yes, pretty much, because everything got to working around until there
was a right smart of work going on and it has been ever since .
Q:
·11e11, what kind of work did you do , Mr. 'l!ownsend?
A:
On thew .
ed buil
a
A.
He worke
hospital ~.
on it some clearing the roads, you know, and he help-
That was up there in town, well, she don ' t know where it
is but they had the old one .
�9
because there were just two brothers .
They was twins so everything
was getting pretty well organized when they got up , you know , old
enough to work .
Do you remember any of the, the t hings that these proje ts, any
of the work that was done on them, wh t they did?
A:
Q:
No, I don't.
fore there any other efforts that were made to help recover
from the
A:
ression?
I think that what came out when there wasn ' t anything much , ••• ow
what was this Democratic President after H
oover?
Q:
As
Roosevelt.
T
Jhat was his name?
l oosevelt?
ow it seemed to me like whenever he got in , things began to change ,
because they began to build, these buildings for the schools, and different
schools ·
1hat gave the pe ople that didn ' t have anything much to do or
to live on, it give them a job, but it didn 't pay too good at the time
being, 1 hey kept on until. •• I think they just changed the name of it
about the same thing is going on now only they raised it up , and gave
it different names •
11
t was back when they started it, th t building
the gymnasiums and bigger schools , different rooms .
Now, back when I
went to school , it was just a one room school building and they went from
the f irst grade t o seventh.
Q:
las
your father on one of the work programs ?
A:
Y
eah, that was where he had to work or walk eight mi les a day,
I.k-
�10
was four miles there and four miles back .
Had t o leave at four o ' clock
arrl cme in at dark j I don ' t know what tbne it was ,
He was
so far
away, he had to take a light , of the morning to see how to go and we
lived in Ashe County and that was down at Fleetw ood, you know , where
they built.
Q:
lhat was the name of it where they worked?
A:
Oh .
Q:
. • p • A•?
No , wasn't ·•• P .
and married .
A.,
because they had that going on when I was grown
y husband used to work on it .
He did?
Yeah , when me and him
~as
married and then he quit after we got married .
at year did you all get marrie ?
'38 .
Q:
W the Depression about over by then?
as
vell , yes , pretty much , because everything got to working around
till there was a right smart of work a going on and it has been ever since .
Q:
· ell what kind of work did you do , M . Townsend?
r
It was •••
Q:
On the work program?
A:
On the
1• .
P . A. he worked on it some
clearing the roads , you know 1
H.e built , helped build, you worked on a hospital, , , what ever hes pi tal ,
the old one , you know, where the old hospital was?
That was , up there
in town , well , she don ' t know where it is at , but they had the old one .
�1Tt.
11
I
(Jc.
He helped work on it and some of them back •••
( ote:
r . Townsend and Jane Efird have been carrying on a
short indecipherable conversation .
Q:
It will be picked up here . )
rlhy don 1 t you tell, talk into there and tell us about working on
the
• P. A., what you remember?
(Laughter)
Q::
ow , you just talk , go ahead and just tell us then .
ou said you
worked on the roads , what di d you have to do?
A:
ell, we fixe d the roads , fiXed the roads down in places ,
places , for people to get in and out .
0
fferent
W hauled dirt and rocks and we
e
fiXed the places so people could get in and out.
Trim the roads , keep
the road , trim the road of bushes and things like that, so people could,
roads would be open .
Q:
.
.
A:
Did you work on that before you were married or after?
Yeah , I worked before I married •
( rs . ·"Townsend)
You just worked before , when we was married and
quit right after .
Q:
at did you do at the hospital, what did you say you helped build
that?
I hauled cement and brick and mortar blocks , I mean cinder blocks .
(Jane Efird speakfng to Janice Young)
during the Depression
(} rs . Townsend)
he could
If they weren 1 t married,
tell something about it .
If you could get him to talk till he'd understand,
he don't seem to remember much.
Q:
(Jane Efird speaking to Janice Y
oung)
aybe if you could let
�12
her ask him .
( Janice speaking to Mrs. Tmmsend)
You could ask him
sane questions that yav. know he would know about .
A:
(l rs . Townsend speaking to
school house at
A:
Q:
A:
You helped build that
alle Crucis didn't you?
(Mr . Townsend)
eah .
• P. A. in that?
(M . Townsend )
rs
( r . Townsend)
Q:
• Townsend)
Yeah , the •T. P . A.
Y , the
eah
•
P . ~A .
built it.
Before you got married , where you living on the farm or · with your
parents?
W
ell, we just had a garden , that' s a ll .
Q:
~ as
it hard to get food then?
I
o, it wasn't so hard .
I just staye d hane an
(lielpe ) my
folks , my daddy and mammy and my brother was all there were of us , so
me and him just stayed there and helpeJ them , looked after them .
Q:
A
:
W
hat di d your father do f or a living?
Tell , he used to work on t he railroads till after he got disabled
till he couldn 't do anything , - couldn't work .
He used to carry the mail, too , didn ' t he?
used to carry the mail.
He kindly ••• ( rs . Townsend)
(M . Townsend)
r
Yeah , he
He carried the mail for several years and he
used to work on the railroad tracks .
Q:
What did he do ?
Y mean on the railroads?
ou
Q:
A:
\
Yeah .
He ftel{)id raise til es , I mean cross ties and things like that .
�13
Q:
Bid you have enough money during the Depression?
A:
Q:
ell , we kindly
made out .
\ ere there any things that were hard to get that you needed?
A:
ell, groceries and things like that weren't as high as they are
now .
There was more and seemed like they were cheaper back then than
there was now .
Oh , we did raise mostly our own stuff from the garden
and things like , we always had corn, corn and potatoes and stuff like
that .
Always had plenty of app les and things like that to live on.
· as there anything that you needed that you had to buy?
ell , we bought some stuff
that we needed such as flour ,
and stuff like that at the store that we needed .
Q:
A:
ere did the money come from to buy the stuff that you needed ?
ell, that was when I was working for that
r.
P . A. business and
then my mother she drew a check every month .
Q:
A:
t kind of check?
County check , they give her a county check , her
and my da dy, a
county check that way every month .
Q:
That was during the Depression?
A:
Y .
eah
Q:
What did they give it for?
A:
They all got it and, they all got rations and things like that with
it .
It was kind of what they called the 01
Age Pension .
I think he is mixed up, th t was just before they died .
(M . Townsend)
rs
�14
Q:
A:
How did you get started on the
• P . A. ?
ell, I just got out there and signed up f or it to give me a job,
something, a job t o work , so I signed up .
I worked up there , I worked
up there the whole time before I was married .
Q
:
~as
it hard work?
· ell , some days it was pre tty hard and some days it wasn ' t .
I
'blilt fires whenever it was col d weather , whenever it was cold why
again they built , kept fires going, to keep warm and everything around.
The bossman always told me , give me the job always keeping fires and
things like that .
Q:
How much did you get paid ?
A:
I couldn't tell you now , how much, it has been •• •
Q:
as it enough?
A:
Huh?
Q:
W what you got paid, was it enough to buy the tllings you needed?
as
O yeah , we ma e out, I made out alright .
h,
Again , I'd get stuff
on credit at the store and then I would soon pay up.
Q:
as +,he pay enough f or
people
t o live on or not?
A:
W
ell, a lot of those ot her peopl e they had rad i os or anything, but
they always paid out, took and got groceries and stuff like that with that .
Q:
A:
D d anybody else in y CfUI' fami l y work on any of those proj ects?
i
o, nobodyA but me worked on i t .
�15
Q:
as it hard to , to get on with work programs ?
A:
o, it wasn ' t so hard to get on and I signed up , up here at Boone .
It wasn't so hard to ge t on .
Q:
A:
Q:
D d people make fun of the people who worked on work projects?
i
o, they never di d, nobody never di
say anything about it .
W
ell, were a lot of people around in your neighborhood workin g
on the project?
A:
Y , there was a lot of people around over there where I lived
eah
that worked on it .
(EN
OF PA_T III )
�16
TAPE .u2 SIDE B PA. T IV
Q:
1
1ell, like over in, I was reading a book that said over in
Kentucky, people that worked in a coal mine •••
A:
Uh, huh •••
Q:
They had it real bad, couldn't get money, couldn't ge t food .
d
you all know people like that?
A:
No .
e never di d have •••
(· rs . Tmms en ) M
ost of the people were , th at would work , a few
people around that wouldn't work , no m tter what kinds of a good job
they had to help them out and they have it pretty rough.
I 'm a having it ri ght now .
Just like
(laughter) A it h s been a couple of
nd
years that I ain ' t been able to work .
The young 'uns helps me out some .
(M . Townsend ) A while back I used to work in the furniture shop
r
down in H
ibriten .
I was down there f or a year or two .
Y
eah, Allen did work in Lenoir at Hibriten some back in
( rs . Townsend)
' 43,
he worked
at H
ibriten.
( r . Townsend)
ibriten and at G
reer's Herb
I worked down there at H
ouse, where they had herbs and things like that you know .
H
I worked
both places down there .
Q:
That was after you got married that you were working down there?
(Mrs . Townsend )
Uh, huh , because what makes me remember it, my
little girl was born while he was working down there and he ha to
stay a week at a time.
�17
Q:
Oh, you didn't live down there?
(M . Townsend)
rs
o, we lived up here and he ' d go down there on
the mail of the first of the week and then he ' d come back the next
weekend .
(He ) Stay a week at the time and I went to my sister's .
They lived over in town and I stayed when my little girl was born.
Q:
D you ever hear of anybody making moonshine during the
id
pression to pay for things ?
Io , I didn't, but I want to tell you sanething my da dy- in-law,
A
llen's father , said that his mo her , the family that she stayed with
that raised her , that they made it and that was on up above where they
lived , and Mr . Townsend said that was why he married
randmaw .
It was
to get her out of the furnace , you know, she was hel ping them make •••
Q: M
oonshine ?
:
Q:
A:
0:
Yeah .
D you remember, during the Depression, the banks closing?
o
o, I don't remember too much about that .
How were businesses affected?
D they lose trade ?
id
ell , I just can ' t tell you , ju t didn't know much about it , you
see , he ' s fifteen years older than I am .
Q:
Did a lot of people move out of the mountains during the Depression
looking f or work?
Y , they did .
es
Q
:
There was a lot of people left, trying t o find work .
D they come back or what happened to them?
id
�18
A:
ell , I don 't know , some of them after so long a time , would
come back , but they waited, I reckon , till sanething,
better and , up here where it opened up .
eems like
ot a little
~it
took
me a long time to remember , I mean, since now , seems like that I
just can't remember back too far or something .
I mean, how things
went or , about business .
Q:
D you remember any women working on any of the Federal ·brk
o
Programs?
A:
The first that I remember about
working, I don ' t remember
wh~t
women
kind it was .
It was at
; ~st
Jefferson
and , it was , now, I ' ve knmri women th t , to be work in the stores , with
merchandi se .
They went and shipped an awful lot of cattle over there
at · rest Jefferson and I don ' t kno
1
where from, I guess it was from
everywhere and they had a stockyard over there and they would kill
them and fix them, give them out, to the people that needed them,
poor people
that.
and it was a job for , some of the women, to help do
To help
to give it out or fix it up , to the ones that
needed it, it give them a job, like people would .
Q:
A:
Q:
A:
That was during the D
epression?
eah .
And it was free?
eah, it was free , to the main people that didn 't have nothing at all .
�19
Q:
· ere there a lot of people like that around?
A:
\· ell , there were several big families , maybe where the families ,
the mother wasn't able to work , well there wasn't work then for .the
women, it's the first I knew women working except , maybe once in a
while , in
st~res
or something or school teacher .
they had great big crowds an
Q:
But -
where
the man, ju t couldn't provi de for them .
•ell, di d you know people like your father who didn 't want to
take things free?
There
was
a lot of people that just wouldn't want to take
things
like that .
Q:
A:
Thy?
ell, I don' t lmow , I guess that made them feel a little bit help-
less or something .
Q:
ell, were the schools affected by the
epression?
ell , back then they didn't have any lunch rooms as I can remember,
anything to offer them at school, they ha d to take their own lunch, those
that didn't live close enou gh , that they could
to eat .
And
rtm
back in a few minutes
so , about something like that I don't remember , the parents
had to buy the books , and the paper and everything that the child used,
see they had to , just buy that and the going to school, it didn't cost
them anything but, the books and the paper , the pencils , stuff like th8t ,
the parents had to pay for it .
Q:
~ell,
do you lmo
they didn't
:
anybody that had to quit because of that , because
ve enough money?
•Jell, they couldn't quit .
They wouldn't allow them to quit .
�20
If they didn 't have it and c
ldn't afford it now I guess it
was maybe scmeway from the school , to give them paper to do
their homework on .
But, it seemed like they didn 't do as
much , as , like they do now .
'·Tere the churches affected in any my?
A:
No, I don't think that they was .
i-. ell, what were , I guess you had people talking about it ,
what were their i deas or attitudes like durine the Depression,
were
they worried about it?
es , about everybody was woITied, afnaid that they cruldn 't
get what they needed, they were going to have to do without, things
that they needed and a lot of them did do without a whole lot and I
guess about everybody did to a certain extent.
Q:
Di
they feel like maybe it wasn't going to en ? W
ere they
afraid that it was going to keep on like th t?
r
ell, I don't know , but I imagine that they do because , now
things that happened, we feel like it .' s going an forever .
Q:
How did they get out of the Depress ion , how did the co1IDtry
get out of the
ression?
·Jell , I reckon everybody must have got together , and worked in,
something to give everybody scmething to do .
Q:
i
at, how did you know it was over, how did you know that the
Depression had ended?
A:
· ell , I guess when everything got better till people could make
it alright .
�21
Q:
A:
o you think that the work programs arrl the federal programs helped?
Y , that helped .
es
f hey gave jobs , but what else do you think helped
Q:
them out?
A: : ell, I don't know , I guess it gave people more ideals , till
they could, could go on and do more , to keep more going , more to do
and causing to be more,
' cause see I reckon it takes talents
and knowledge , to keep it up an
the more that they try to do, the
more you know how to open up , s omething else and I
ess , that's the
way everything got started and to make people feel better anyway and
eally did better .
It's been for a few years , seemed like everybody's
been doing pretty good , but they have to wo k .
Q:
D d you see any l asting effects caus ed by the Depression?
i
o.
Q:
'"ell, do you think , how would you canpare the
~ression
of the
'JO's to the way things are today?
A:
ell , there's been a lot of difference , but there's a lot of
similance (similarity).
H
ere about a year ago , when they began to
close down sane shops and things like that , that reminded me , what it
used to be way back yonder , they wasn ' t nothing open, to do .
Q:
at about family life? Has it been, could you compare the way it
is now as to how it was
A:
uring the Depres ion?
o, I think life goes on pretty well the same .
�22
Q
:
at about prices ?
A:
, ell , there's a difference in prices .
Q:
There are di fferences ?
.
Yeah, there are , there 's a lot of differences , well, everything
i s higher n
than it was back then, but you see , if the prices are
~
low and you don ' t get pay an money, ah , they ain't much difference
in whether you c
make a lot more and the prices are high, than it
i s when you don 1 t get anythin
anything .
0
and you don 1 t have to pay much for
So, it's just as hard, back then when prices were low ,
you didn ' t have anything to buy it with , you couldn ' t get any more
than enough , it's just like it is now , it's just hard life , I reckon ,
'
just you get a whol e lot of money, you have to pay a whole lot and if
you don ' t get much money, well, now if you ain ' t got much money you
have to pay, but then you didn t hav. . to .
Q:
Is there anything else you ' d like to tell about the D
epression,
anything you remember?
· ell, there ain ' t nothing really that I can remember .
Q:
fuat about you M . Townsend , i s there anything you' d like to add ?
r
A:
I don ' t know of anything.
Q:
0.
• , any more questions ?
( END OF
APE)
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Townsend, Mrs. & Mr. Allen
Interview Date
9/25/1975
Number of pages
22 pages
Date digitized
9/18/2014
File size
10.2MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
c08dbee4015362a0037fdd0be79ab830
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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111_tape335_Mrs&MrAllenTownsend_transcript_M
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Mrs. & Mr. Allen Townsend [September 25, 1975]
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Document
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Townsend, Mrs. & Mr. Allen
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Mountain life--North Carolina--Ashe County--History--20th century--Anecdotes
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Ashe County
Ashe County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Townsend, Allen
Townsend, Allen, Mrs.
Description
An account of the resource
Mr. and Mrs. Townsend talk about the Depression and how it affected their families. He explains: "It was just everything, you know, seemed different and a shortage of everything." Farmers were the ones who fared the best, because they didn't have to buy in order to support themselves. His family worked on a farm during the Depression, but they didn't own the farm. Most people in Ashe County, because they "lived so far back from everybody else" didn't know much about the political situation, or why the Depression was happening. He remembers that when Roosevelt things changed, and schools started to be built in his area. His father was assigned to a work program and had to walk eight miles a day to get to work.
Allen Townsend
Ashe County
crops
dried herbs
farming
Federal Work Programs
Fleetwood
Franklin Roosevelt
ginseng
Great Depression
Greer's Herb House
Herbert Hoover
herbs
Hibriten
Jane Efrird
railroad
work projects
Works Progress Administration
WPA
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d64cd610551e84347b37f6f1ba7e6a13.pdf
b8c8f282d27abb9305cda32faf9cfed5
PDF Text
Text
This is an interview2with Carter Ruppard by Tommy Pursley for the Appalachian
Oral History Project at Matney N. C. on June 10, 1974.
Interviewer :
Where was your mama and daddy born?
Mr. Ruppard : In Irdell county . I forget the name of the town . That's been
years ago. If my daddy had been living yet he would be a hundred and seven
years old . He come to this country from I rdell county to Watauga.
Interviewer :
When did they move here?
Mr. Puppard: My daddy was twenty-five years old when he moved to Watauga
county. And raised thirteen children in the country.
Interviewer:
born?
What were you in that thirteen?
Were you one of the first ones
Mr. Ruppard : No, no . Let's see. Andrew is the oldest, Laura, Ellen, James,
Nanie, Daisie, Me, Maggie, Besty, Troy, Roy, Sherman, right on down the rotation.
Interviewer :
Were they all born f ight here?
Mr. Ruppard:
In Watauga County :
Interviewer :
So when your daddy moved here • . . .
Mr . Ruppard:
Right over here at Cove Creek, at Willow Dale.
Interviewer:
That's where he lived?
Mr . Ruppard:
here .
Yes sir.
Interviewer :
Are all your brothers and sisters still living?
He lived there eighteen years before he ever came up
Mr. Ruppard : No sir . I just got two sisters a living. I got two brothers
and a sister living besides myself . The rest are all dead .
Interviewer:
Do they still live around this area?
Mr. Ruppard : Got two brothers that live up here at Blowing Rock; one sister
lives over here this side of Banner Elk, Horse Bottom they call it.
Interviewer :
Why did your parents move to Watauga County?
Mr. Ruppard : They just come from Irdell County to here, took up and raised
here, right over at Cove Creek at Willow Dale.
Interviewer :
Did they have them a farl'l?
�2
Mr . Ruppard:
Rented~
They rented fro~ old man Thin Mast . , Dave Mast's
daddy, Gharles Mas.t t:s daddy . Stay up there eighteen years till we come
to tnis country up here. Been here about sixty-nine years, right here.
What I was going to say about the little ridge up there where Troy and Roy
live, up there this side of Illowing Rock, stayed up there eighteen years, butchered for Boone Fork Lumber Company when the band mill ran over here at
Shull ' s Mill, then I came back here, home to the old place .
Interviewer:
You were born on Cove Creek right?
Mr. Ruppard:
Yes sir.
Interviewer :
How old were you when you moved away from there?
Right up there above Willow Dale.
Mr. Ruppard: I was just ten year old when we come from over there over here.
I'm eighty-two years old . We been here some while .
Interviewer:
Did your brothers and sisters help with the farming?
Mr . Ruppard: Oh yeah . I can remember very well nister when there were
nine of us all big enough at home at one time to take a row of corn across
the hill together . Went to the taole and filled the table as far as here
over to mama . Lived better then than we can now . And it was every day
business .
Interviewer:
Did you all raise most everything you needed on the farm?
Mr. Ruppard : Yes sir . We hardly ever go to buy anything unless it would
be a poke of flour once in a while. The rest of the stuff was all raised on
the farm . People better get to doing it now to .
Interviewer :
Do you still raise a lot of your food right now?
Mr . Ruppard :
Everything mostly.
Interviewer: Do you remember anything that happen when all thirteen of
your brothers and sisters were living at home?
Ruppard : I can remember everything from two years old up to now . Yessir.
I stayed with my oldest brother that Has married . The first baby that vTas
born I was two years old . They sent me back home and I could carry just half
a gallon of water to his wife . I stayed with them nearly three weeks and when
they sent me back home they bought me a pair a overhauls just like the ones
I got on now . I've wore pretty much ever since. I can remember stuff back
then just about as good as I can a month ago . It was daylight to dark
work, carry a lantern up at night to tie up ( unintangible) and put it
in stacks. People have to do it this day and tiwe they'd die in spite of
everything.
l~r .
Interviewer:
Do you think life was better then than it is now?
�3
Mr. Ruppard:
Well in a way .
Interviewer:
What ways was it better?
Mr . Ruppard : We never had any of this back then . . . I can remember very well.
I was ten year old when we lef t over there and come here . Been here ever since
and up to that time you never heard of a sickness only one thing . An old
one-eyed fellow lived over here at Matney and people would come from Cove Creek
and come to him to get him to make medicine to cure Diptheria they call it .
Now then there is all kinds of disease everywhere. Every kid that took
Diptheria would come to old man Doc Hogsy right over here at Matney . They
had to make medicine to cure that. You would hear tell of measles, mumps,
something like that, but I mean anything like cancer, stuff that a way
you never heard tell of it.
Interviewer: When the doctor had to take care of people what did he charge
and how did you pay him?
Mr. Ruppard: Back when we were over there for eighteen years, there weren ' t
two doctors in this country at that time, old man Doc Perry and Doc Fybes
down on Cove Creek . If they went to see you years ago they went horseback riding.
Interviewer :
Mr.
was
the
two
Well how were the roads?
Ruppard: Oh boy it was bad . Not a hard surface road heard tell of. It
just out of one hole and into another one . They call you out to work enroads and you had to do it for free. They'd work you out two days every
weeks. I worked this road here when free labor was working .
Interviewer:
Were the roads wide enough for wagons?
Mr. Ruppard : Just about one way. You had to pick places ti pass. It wasn't
like it is now where you could pass anywhere . A lot of places you would have
to pick places to pass . I've hauled lumber from here to Elk Park and Cranberry
on the dirt road, mud down through there. You be expecting to meet somebody
and have to pass them with a load of lumber. It's all together different.
Interviewer: Well you've talked about how hard you had to work, did you ever
have time for games or anything like that .
Mr. Ruppard: Lord dickens.
place a going.
It was daylight to dark, after dark to keep the
Interviewer :
You never got to go out and fool around with your friends?
Mr. Ruppard:
Very seldom did we get to' do the same thing as a vacation day .
Interviewer:
What did you do for entertainment?
Mr. Ruppard:
Like I tell you, hard work .
That's what we got .
�4
Interviewer:
You didn't have get togethers?
Mr. Ruppard: Only thing like that back then was in clearing new ground people
would go in ... if we had a big new ground to clear here, the Binghams down
here and Haurts and all of them would come in here and help us in our new ground
and when we got ours ready to pile the logs and burn the brush we'd go on and
help them get theirs ready. And while the men folks were doing that the women
folks would have a quilting . . They sit around and quilt and get dinner. I
fell on two old sled standards years ago and broke two ribs back there and just
got so I could get out of the hospital with that and they swell up on me
and it cuts my breath off every once in a while. I guess I took a team and
logged more than anybody in this country that I know of now. Two big settings
up in Jenkins, Kentucky, two big settings up at Garden Creek, 26 miles above
Wilkesboro. We logged all over this country.
Interviewer:
What would you do leave home for a couple weeks?
Mr. Ruppard:
Yes sir.
Interviewer:
How was the pay then?
Mr. Ruppard: It come slow. It come slow, Mister. I was talking to a fellar
the other day about going up there to · Kentucky on that job, we destroyed and
wasted more timber that if we had it back this day and time we could buy up a
sight. Big chestnut logs and we'd just cut a twelve foot slice out of them
to make our log losd out of and just leave the rest hardwood, poplar, and
stuff and now old rotten wormy chestnut is way up yonder. We wasted more
than people make this day and time.
Interviewer:
Besides logging and farming what other jobs have you worked at?
Mr. Ruppard:
That's about all I ever did, farmed, sawmilled, logged.
Interviewer:
Which work did you like the best?
Mr. Ruppard: I just as soon get out and go to the mountains after a trail
of logs as I would anything. Or work at a sawmill if every man does his
part under a sawmill shed. I loved that pretty good. You couldn't find
most of them that would do that. One would loaf on his work and that would
make it harder on the rest of us under the shed. If everybody would carry
his load, I'd just as soon work under a sawmill shed.
Interviewer:
Was Saturday and Sunday any different from the rest of the week?
Mr. Ruppard:
We'd work Saturday and take off on Sunday.
Interviewer:
What did you do on Sunday?
Mr. Ruppard: Go to church and have a good time. Most of the time we had to
work late Saturday night carrying out hay and tie up the stacks. It was hard
business.
�5
Interviewer:
Did you go to church on Sunday and stay all day?
Mr. Ruppard: No. We go until after the service and come
back home.
lay around or walk up to your neighbors.
Interviewer :
What kind of church did you go to?
Mr. Ruppard :
Baptist .
We'd
Everyone of us, the whole bunch was Baptist .
Interviewer: What did you do when you started getting a little older about
courting girls?
M.r. Ruppard:
going.
We'd ask daddy if we could go out .
Interviewer:
Where would you go if you went?
If he said no then you weren't
Mr . Ruppard: Just go to her house. I was telling a fellow here the other
n~ght • he. was· talking about drinking liquor . I said anybody can smell gas or 1
~iquor quicker than I can they just might as well stay in bed. I don't fool with
it and I never did . I had a pair of mares and I hooked them to a bug . ..
I dated this girl nearly four years, stayed in a sawmill with her da~ly and
hauled lumber through the \-?inter time with him ... we took a buggy ride down to
Elk valley, down Elk Park and around on Sunday . And they was Advents; Seven
Day Advents. We came hack from the ride and I hitched the mares as far as from
here to the road from their house. Her daddy never would ask me to help him on
Sunday . But when we drove up her daddy and grandpaw, an old man, was up in the
hollar trying to finish stacking some hay. It looked like it was going to rain.
Well this girl ' s name Fas l)aisie, but her daddy always called her son . Her
sister's name was Blanche and he always called her Jack . He seen us walking
up to tl\e house and hollared, ''hey Son." She said, "what do you want Papa?"
He said, ''bring us a bucket of water up here . '·' We went out to this spring and
carried them a bucket of water and he said, "Son, how about getting up there
and finish stomping down that ' so-and-so'· hey . " He was an awful man to swear .
That's the only thing I ever had against him. I said, "no, I ' 11 do it." I
wasn't going to stand there and see her do it . Before I did it he said, ''Cart
you never have took a drink and before you get up on that hay you got to take a
drink. 1 ' Before I could say anything there he come around that haystack totin
a gallon jug, holden the cork in his teeth and pouring it like he was pouring
water. To satisfy him I took that jug and turned it up and took one swallow.
I got the whole whiff of it as I . . .. I got up there and before we could finish
that haystack, I had to hold to th~ top of that stack to keep from .. . . . I could
see everything in twos, two of everything . And I noticed this girl sitting up
there laughing at me. Yeah, she was tickled to death. I had to hold to that
dogged pole up there to keep f rom falling off till we got that stack done .
Then I had to go back down to the house. I had to go about from here to the
woods up yonder to my horse and buggy. I remember very well trying to get my
horses unhitched and a fellow come along that was courting one of my sisters,
Walt Bennet, he was corning over here . Re got me in that buggy and brought me
home, took my mares and turned them loose . The next thing I could remember,
buddy, was right in that room, right in there, my mother was standing there
trying to pour sweet milk down me . I could always blow an old French harp.
�6
My paw, he was sittinr, there and he said, " son, let's .~ear you play some on your
French harp. Be said that I said, "where's the dad-blame thing at.'~ rle gave
me that French harp. Instead of holding it the way I was supposed to, I was
blowing in the back of it. He said that I said, " I can't blow this dad-blamed
thing." And I throwed it at him and bearly missed him in the face. So I count
it that I been tight one time in my life. Then one other day we went to Johnson
City. Feller up here, Lee Ward, went with us, cattleman. I bought me a calf.
Coming on back ... Willie, my oldest boy, he lives down here by Ernie Tripplet,
by Connie Yates out there. Lee says to Willie, "I want to p.sk yo u something.
I want the truth and Willie I want you to tell me. Did you ever see your papa
turn up anything to drink?" Willie says, " No sir, not in my life I ain't."
Coming back outside of Johnson City there's a place Mister Lee can 't pass to save
his life without stopping and ~etting him a pint. But when he does he says,
"Mister Cart there ain't no use to offer it to you. You won't drink it."
And he'll set it behind the seat. And I'll take an ~ oath anytime you want me to
that I never saw a bottle turned up to Lee Ward's mouth while he was behind
the steering wheel. Lee said, " I want to ask you again . Did you ever hear
your daddy swear?" He says, "No, only when he was talking after somebody else
and telling what they said." I brought that calf back ... Mister Lee says,
11
Mister Cart, before you put that calf on that rich cows milk you better give
her something for the scaires. I've got the medicine." I said, "Mister Lee,
I 'd just soon pay you as anybody." He got that old calf and took it over there
to the barn. In the barn set an old Pepsi bottle with about that much clorox
in it. He just pick that stuff up and poured it down that calf and that calf
went about half way across tne yard there and just fell over. I said, ''looky
there Mister Lee." He said, "Goddamn."
I said, "there ain't no Goddamn to it. It's a dead calf." It just kick two
or three kicks and it was dead right quick. He said, "what was in that bottle?"
I said, "you had it poured down that calf so quick, I couldn't tell you."
It was clorox Andrew had over there bleaching his Stallion's mane. He came out
with his checkbook to write me the money for the calf. I said, "no Mister Lee.
That money's worth advertising your doctoring. He said, "Cart, don't you ever
tell anybody about this." Well if I'd promised the man that I wouldn't have
told it then I'd not told it, but I never promised that I wouldn't. I swapped
horses with him one time and he gave me fifty dollars to boot. He said, "I'll
swap with you if you'll never tell anybody I booted you." I said, "that's the
reason I want to swap with you Mister Lee; so I can tell everybody that I got
a little boot in a horse swap.'' Well a little later on over here at the stock
sells in Boone, we were all standing up on the bank watching the rotation.
Right there about middle ways there layed a two year old that was just bearly
milk broke. He was just a shaking. One of them, a fellow called on Mr. Fred
Greene.
Me and Lee were standing right together watching them run the cattle
in there. One of the fellows said, "Fred here's one down the milkboard. He
called on a fellow, Johnson, to get some ~oys and drag him out of the way so
the other ones would quit runnin~ over him. He said, "I'll get him up from
there directly. I'll give hirr. a dose of penicillin." I said, "Mister Taylor
if you can't get him up Mister Lee here can." We had a lot of fun together.
Interviewer:
What did he intend to give the calf?
Mr. Ruppard:
He figured it was
\Tater
and he mixed this powder with it, but he
�7
poured that clorox down that calf . That's what killed it . It just walked there and
i t didn't kick three kicks.
He just poured that powder in that Pepsi bottle .
He never asked if it was water or coffee of liquor no~ nothing.
Interviewer:
Well the man that gave you the drink of liquor, did he make it?
Mr. Ruppard : Oh, no sir. A fellow right down here this side of Elk Park bootlegged all the time. His daddy did up till he died then old Hoove Eller . ..
old man Ben Eller, he made it and sold it all fiis life . After Ben died Hoove
ran it, he sold it. Anybody wants a gallon of liquor they go down to Hoove
Eller ' s . Me and his oldest brother, a crippled fellow, took a load of lumber
over tp Elk Park, broke a wagon wheel down, didn't get to come back that nigpt .
A fellow down there name Williams fixed our wagon wheel, and we slept with
Uncle Ben in what he called his liquor house . There wasn ' t much roof to it,
but it had a good floor and it was good and warm. Thomas and Ben made an agreement about something . Ben moved our bed where he had a lid there and he raised
it up and reached down there and pulled up two gallons of liquor. That bo-x
was sitting just as full of gallons and half gallons just _ pretty as you please .
as
We stayed there over night . Sometime during the night it come to snowing one
of the prettiest snowa I believe I've ever seen. That always did me good too.
It would snow and we could pull our logs easier. I bet you the next morning
that snow three or four inches on us. Ben said Reese .. . he was laying over
there behind. He was way bigger than me or Reese was . He said, "Reese. What
do you want Mr. Boss . " He said, "Reese, it ' s time to start a fire . " He says,
"OOOOOOH Mr . Boss." I can see .him just as plain as if he was here talking.
Ben said, ''you coming out from be~ind there Reese?" "OOOOOOH Mr . Boss I don't
believe I can." Be said, "I be dad-blamed if you don ' t." He picked a little
of the cover up on on his arm and rolled all of that snow back on Reese . He
said, "wait Mr. Boss . Wait Mr . Boss . I'm acoming." Two or three fellers had
stayed there on the floor and you couldn ' t tell them from snow. Ben ran them
up from there. Now this fellow I was telling you about, I courted his girl,
he kept it regular, too, buddy. He kept his liguor .
Interviewer:
When did you get married?
Mr. Ruppard: Oh, I was about 23 years old. She was 16 . What I was going to
tell you about the liquor business now. Two fellows were shot over there at
Foscoe on Christmas Day . That liquor came from down in a whole where we lived
at Watauga Gap . Old man John Townsend, they claimed, could come nearer to making
pure whiskey than anybody they knew of . Well from Saturday evening to Sunday
night they kept the road full going down there. They'd go down there and spend
theit money and go on back home . They never bothered a thing at our house
except just passing back and forth . Two fellows, I forget their names, but
they fished all the time. They were sitting up under a big oak tree and one said
he wished he had some of them fried up, he loved to eat them . Well somebody
said, "if you like fish so much why don't you eat them ~·a..; . He said, " by God
I can." He caught one that was four or five inches long and he put it in his
mouth and swallowed it. They'd had bet 25¢ and it cost him twenty-five dollars
to operate to. get that fish out. He swallowed it alive. Well anyway, them
same two fellows come up through there one day, had them a gallon a piece and
started to come in the house. My daddy stopped'em . Said they weren ' t bringing
that stuff in the house with all the youngins in there. They tried to come
anyway and my daddy had to drag one of them out by his ankles. That was the only
�8
trouble we had the whole time we lived there . But after that killing took place . ..
my daddy knowed all four of ' em, worked with them. The high sheriff of the
co~nty, Luther Farthing, Coe Perry, Ed Shipley, and old man, I forget his name;
we d g~ne to b:d, mama and us children. We slept back in the bedroom and papa
slept in here in front of the fireplace. I wasn\t asleep and somebody knocked on
the door . Dad said, "come in . " · If he hadn't ask where I was at I wouldn 't
have cared so much. Sheriff said, .. he called my daddy grandpa all the time . ..
he said, " Grandpa, where is Carter a:t?" I got up and came in there and we sat
there and talked to eleven o'clock . Finally he turned around to me and said,
•:carter I want to tell you my business." I said, "What's that Sheriff? What
have I done or is it something I ain't done . " He said, "no, I brought these
three men with me for you to be swore in here as deputy sheriff if it won't be
too much trouble for you . " I said, ,. Thank you Sheriff. That's as nice as can be t.
asked of anybody . I been here thirteen years and I can't do enough to get people
to stop going down there let alone being a target propped up out there to be
shot at . " I went on back to bed. He finally deputized one of my brothers, Coy,
to help him catch one of Dave Chirley's boys . They was making liquor up in the
hollar up there . Bill Whiter's boy, Paul ~'hiter, ¥as up at Blowing Rock courting.
About your size for the world and not a finer hoy on the Blue Ridge . He had to
pass here and on up through Dave's where they was making the liquor . He come
ridinf through in a buggy and they hollared halt at him and didn ' t hear them.
They was laying out there on a stack out, Coy and the Sheriff . Coy shot the boy
right through the arm there as purty as you please . Talk about somebody giving
up their job in a hurry, now Coy did . I never had a run in with the law. I ' ve
been in court one time and the judge scared me, I could _
haye_ gone out the top
of that building . I went up there and I was a butcher for the Boone Fork Lumber
Company while the ban mill was running . I had two sheep to kill and a beef to
kill every week. Old man Judge Wagner was the man to pay me, giving me three
dollars a day . Now this is the way it went . He went down to Ed Shipley I was
telling you about and he give him twenty-five dollars a ewe, a hundred head of
ewe. He brought 'em up there and had a divided field with fifty on one side
and fifty on the other side . Right here was a white spring and an apple tree
stood over there where I had my block hung for butchering. My orders were to
kill the two best out of the left hand side of the field until they was used up
before I was to kill any on the right hand side . They had jerseys, gernseys,
holsteins, all kinds in there . I had an old collie dog, if I had it now I wouldn ' t
take five hundred dollars for it. I clip his ears and cut off his tail and =I
betcha he weighed 125 pounds. People would come to see that dog catch a sheep.
I get my block hung, then I pick out the best one in the bunch and I'd hit that
one on the back with a peice of bark of a stick and I ' d say get her Red . No
matter hiw many times he ' d chase the sheep around the herd when he finally got it
seperated he would get it by the legs and drag it to me . Well that morning my
daddy was up there with me and he said, "look coming up the hill." There wasn ' t
a road to get up there and a bunch of people from the lumber company were coming
up the hill . They got up there and the boss says, •:son which one you gonna give
us today?" I said I hadn ' t had time to look them over yet. · Hell the ones on the
left side were all nasty looking and had what I call snot-slinkings coming out
thear mouth and nose . He picks one out of that bunch and says to kill it and not
to kill another one till he sends me word. The next day I was down by the sawmill
and Mr . Jud Wagner come up riding a great big old horse and he said, "Hey Mr.
Ruppard you back fron killing sheep already?" I said, "No, I ain't killed no
sheep and back already." He said, "Well ain ' t the day sheep day . " I said, "No,
'
�9
today ain't sheep day . Mr . Richard told me Tuesday morning to kill that one
and not to kill any more till he sent me word . " He got mad said he was gonna
tell them all off . He swore tnar he rode that horse up to where they was and
cussed them all out. I know he was l y ing' cause if he ' d rode that horse up
there he would have nad to ride it across two train trussels and there's
no way he could have done tnat . Thursday week here comes the deputy sheriff
and sentence my daddy and me to Boone to go to court . What it was, the company
was sueing Ed Shipley f or putting diseased sneep off on 'em . Jud was sueing
Ed Shipley for putting then off on him . Well, they called the case and they
said, "tell us your ousiness up there with them sheep . And I told him I
was the butcher for the Boone Fork Lumber Company. I told, I had had orders
to kill two sheep a week and a beef . I was supposed to take the best two
out of the left hand side. The judge was sitting up there behind me and he
said, "look around here son." Buddy I could ' 9- went out the top of that
court house . He said , "what do you mean the two best out of the left hand
side?" And told him the right hand side had more snotty noses and nasty
behinds and germy sheep . You know from that day till this they never did
settle that unless they compromised some how. Tnis fellow I was telling you
about natl this old leather saddle. Nice saddle. I had one . Anyway he was
a big old fat fellow and he had that open end saddle on that big old horse
he was riding. There was this woman that lived up above us, she could plow
as good as any man ever could. She could take a team of horses and handle
them better than a man . Well old Ben went up to her house on that big horse
and while he was there , she turned that saddle around on his horse and you
know he rode that horse all the way back down there to Foscoe before he turned
that saddle around, nearly ten miles . You should have seen that fellow .
He was sore and black and blue up under there where he ' d rode that saddle
backwards all that way . Yeah . We had our ups and downs; ups and downs .
Interviewer:
Did you get to go to school very much?
Mr. Ruppard: I never got to go to school over two months in my life. I
was talking to a feller the other day . His daddy was the only teacher I
ever went to. He smite me . He hit me . He was a little feller . . . Ralph
Wilson's daddy, Frank Wilson, alittle fellow . Rignt there at Willow Dale
where I'm telling you, right over there a little farther. There was an old
well there, That ' s the reason they built the st:hool there. They cleaned
that well out a little later and you'd be surprised at the old dead dogs
and cats and chickens and things they got out of that old well . Right
on above now us boys had us a swimming hole. It was long as from here
that old building up yonder and it was about ten or twelve feet deep. About
middle ways there was an old apple tree limb sticking out over the water.
And we were playing 'mad dog ' we called it. \{ e were always playing that,
us boys .
I could run then .
The person that was it would say, " innie minnie
miny moe, catch a guinie by the toe," then you would light out after them.
I had caught all of them except for one boy . He went up that apple tree and
I went up after him . He started out on that limb and I was right behind
him. Well he got out there and I started shaking the limb . Ee fell in
the swimming hole and nearly drowned. I ended up having to jump in there and
pull him out. Well there was this girl up there watching and she says she ' s
going to tell the teacher . I lite out after her to make sure she tells
�10
the truth. Well she told him and he sends me to get a switch. You needn'.t
come back with one with just one switch on it, it had to have two switches on
it. He switched me, boy he switched me.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Pursley, Tommy
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Rupard, Carter
Interview Date
6/17/1974
Location
The location of the interview.
Boone, NC
Number of pages
10 pages
Date digitized
9/16/2014
File size
7.54MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
9452ab507801e9bf1d4f158da784e47a
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
111_tape292_CarterRupard_transcript_M
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Carter Rupard [June 17, 1974]
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Document
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Pursley, Tommy
Rupard, Carter
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County
Logging--North Carolina
Sawmill workers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Rupard, Carter
Description
An account of the resource
Carter Rupard talks about growing up on a farm in Cove Creek with his many siblings. He says that they "lived better than we can now" and that "we hardly ever went to buy anything unless it would be a poke of flour ever once in awhile." His family was totally self-sufficient with their farm, and they had to work very hard every day of the week.
Banner Elk
Blowing Rock
Boone Fork Lumber Company
butcher
Carter Rupard
courting
Cove Creek
Doctor Fybes
Doctor Perry
farming
Irdell County
Johnson City
Judge Wagner
liquor business
logging
Matney
North Carolina
sawmill
Shull's Mill
Watauga County N.C.
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/1fbd66f7d563f355b9b46038529a8345.pdf
8abd80a56901f7962cea6994bab58322
PDF Text
Text
Ti1is is an interview with Hrs. Jennie Horton of Boone, North Carolina, done
for the Appalachian Oral History Project by Mabel L. Brooks.
Mrs. Horton: My name is Jennie Horton. I'm sixty-seven years old. I'm
retired. I used to cook, mostly I have always cooked. I worked pretty hard
in my younger days. I worked in Monroe, 11ichigan seven, six years, I left
there and worked in Pennsylvania up in the Pokenoles for four years. And
when I worked up there, I was working with my son-in-law, and that work was a
little too heavy for me so I quit and got a lighter job at a camp where they
have young people come in on week-ends. And I stayed there six years . And
then it was time for me to retire, so I came back home. This i s my home,
Boone. I signed up for social security. Then I worked four years down here
at the hospital, down here at Watauga, I got arthritis and that really threw
me, so I haven't worked anywhere in three years. I have two children, a boy
and a girl. My son is married and he lives here on 8 North Street. My daughter
lives in Strausburg, Pennsylvania.
Interviewer: Could you tell us about life during the depression and how you
made a living?
Mrs. Horton: My children were small then. I worked at a hotel. I didn't
make very much, we didn't make very much in those days. We got b~, but it
was close and very hard. I ah1ays had a garden. I had a pretty good little
garden, and I would can different things that I could get, and what I could
buy.
Interviewer: What food was most scarce at the time? Like now we are having
a beef shortage . What was in shortage during the depression?
Mrs. Horton: Just about everything. I tell you, seems like I don't recall,
any beef being in shortage, just meat. Just pork meat. Sugar, it was rationed
also flour and coffee, and stuff like that, just about everything. You could
only get a certain amount.
Interviewer:
Was it per week or per month or what?
Mrs. Horton: Per week. And I sold, let me see what else . I believe thats
all. Most of the food was rationed. They ~ allowed you to have so much a week.
I don't remember about the beef, I guess it was too, but ... you had such a
little money to buy things like that. If ~e could really do without it we
would.
Interviewer: My grandparents said they couldn't get much meat so they had
to eat horse meat on the table.
Mrs. Tiorton: Oh there wasn't anything like that here. Two, Three months
ago, I heard some say they have been eating horse meat. And you know I said
if it ever comes here t6 North Carolina especially here in Boone, I'll never
but it. I'll never eat it. Cause if you read the Bible you aren't going to
find where Christ ate horse meat, nor any of his Disciples, why should I eat
it? When it gets down that low, I just hope the Lord will take me on out
of the way . Horse meat? Uggh.
�2
Interviewer : Well Y.rs . Horton could you tell us about getting medicines and
visiting the doctors and things?
Mrs . Horton: Well it seems like it wasn ' t too hard to get a doctor. Seems like there weren't as many prescriptions filled. They didn't write you prescriptions
as quickly as they do now for medication . But mostly, if you weren't too
awfullu sick, just with a cold and had to have something like that , the doctor
generally gave you a medication, something you didn't do yourself.
Interviewer :
Were home remedies more of usage then?
Mrs. Horton:
Yeah, home remedies were pretty useful then.
" ~
Interviewer : What do you think works best, home remedies, or that you recieve
from the doctors?
Mrs. Eorton : I don't know. Sometimes that old time stuff is pretty good,
yes it is. It really is. Of course the doctors make light of it and all .
I have heard in my younger days where people would have pneumonia fever and
they ' d make onion polysis and put on the patient, and give them some kind of
tea, and it would break up the fever. If you put onion polysis on you, on
somebody now, I guess the doctor would throw you out of the house .
Interviewer:
You said you had a garden before, what kind of tools did you use?
Mrs . Horton: I had hoes, shovels, madigans, what I got now . I raked in the
garden last year . This summer I had a pretty good garden, but last year, I
didn't do any good. I was on crutches with my knees. I had arthritis so
bad and I was on crutches just about all summer last summer, but by the help
of the Lord, I got better and I put out a pretty good little garden this year .
I think I raised enough potatoes to do me all winter. And I raised corn and
beans . I canned corn and I canned beans.. I canned tomatoes , and I canned
apples and I made apple jelly .
When your mother was
Interviewer: Sounds like you ' re pretty well stocked.
raising her garden, can you remember any methods that she used that you don ' t
have to use today?
Mrs . Horton: No, I don't . I was born and raised on a farm. My father farmed
and there ' s not much difference now . The only difference in it now and back
then, people would have to use a horse and a plow . But now they can take one
of these little tillers and go through and maybe dig a few weeds out and you've
got your stuff made. But then they would have to have a horse and a small plow,
a one horse plow and plow through the rows . But all of thats done away with now.
You just get you a tiller and go on through and plow up your garden without
horses . And we had cows, we had chickens, my daddy raised p.igs, raised hogs
and we got along pretty good . Money wasn't plentiful, but we did have plenty
to eat.
Interviewer: Would you think that your family got along better than some of the
other families durinE this time?
�3
Mrs . Horton: Well yes I do because now-a-days my grandchildren, they have
two and three pairs of shoes, which we didn ' t get but one pair of shoes a
year when we were growing up . Now my little grand- daughter, she ' s got two
or three pairs of shoes . Hy nieces little daughter ' s has two or three pair .
I say if you all had to survive what I came through, I say you'll be thankful
that you have just what you have . Ilut I don ' t know, they still aren't satisfied .
Interviewer:
I guess people had to make a lot of their clothes and things?
Mrs . Horton :
Yes, way
Interviewer :
Did you ever have to go to the grits mill?
back then they did .
Mrs . Horton: Yes, I went to the mill. We ' d take wheat to the ~ill and get it
ground into flour . And we ' d take corn and get it ground into meal . I couldn't
carry but a peck or about a half a bushel. It wasn't too far from where we
lived, where we took our meal to. But the mill we took our flour to was about
four miles from our home .
Interviewer:
Did you have to walk?
Mrs. Horton : Yes pretty much, and that ' s a long way. But generally, my
father would always get our neighbors. they had a team of ~ules and when they
would go to the mill, they would all go in and go together . That made it a
little easier.
Interviewer : Do you know any little funny acts or incidents that happened
on the way to the mill?
Mrs . Horton:
No, I don ' t know any.
Interviewer :
What about the educational situation?
Mrs. Horton : Among the children, there . weren ' t but two of us that went to
school. There weren't but three of us . We had to walk three miles going
and three miles coming. Six miles a day to school .
Interviewer:
Were the whites and blacks going to school together7
Mrs. Horton:
No.
Interviewer :
this time?
Was there a lot of tension between the whites and blacks during
No way .
~
.
Mrs . Horton: Not a bit . I ' ve been here in Boone . I ' ve been living in Boone .
I was born and raised in Tennessee, but ~y mother and father moved here about
forty or fifty years ago and I never heard anything about segregation till I
came to Boone, North Carolina , that's the truth . We didn't go to school together
nor to church together, but sometimes the whites would come and visit our church
and they would invite the Colored to come and visit their church . I didn ' t
�4
know anything about it until I came to North Carolina and seems like it got
worse and worse and worse so I hope it •·s better now. Some places it will
never be any better. That's right.
Interviewer: Do you think it was a good thing for the schools to intergrate
like they have?
Mrs. Horton: Yes I do. Especially in a little place like this. This is no
city, you know that, but the Colored weren't situated to teach some of the
children. Especially when they got to high school, at first they didn't
have any high school teachers here and they would have to send their children
off. My son and my daughter, when they finished elementary school here, I
had to send them to Kings Mountain, North Carolina. I sent them to Kings
Mountain, North Carolina to finish high school. And then, as I remember,
some of the children went to Tennessee and some went to Greensboro these that
wanted to. You know, so many will and so many won't. And so many can and so
many can't. But I am thankful to the Lord that everything has turned out like
it has. Everything seems to be a whole lot different from what it used to be
when I was ~ growing up. If they'd get a job, people would get more money than
they did back when I was a kid. I have worked for as little as three and four
dollars a week and you know that isn't anv money. Now just let somebody ask
you to work for them for three or four dollars a week. Some people would get
rather violent. You'd better believe it. Yes sir.
Interviewer: When you were going to school, how were the schools set up, did
they have everybody in one room?
Mrs. Horton: No, we had two rooms. I got as far as the sixth grade. I went
about two of three weeks in the sixth grade and I had to quit. My father and
my mother weren't too well and my brother, there weren't but four of us, and
three girls and my brother. He lives out on up above us. That little white
house that sits down there, he lives up above there in a yellow house. He
married and we had to be the girls and the boys too so we just quit going to
school. Stay at home and help with the house work.
Interviewer:
Did
peop ~ e
tend to marry younger back then they do now?
Mrs. Horton: No I don't think so. I don't think they did. It don't seem to
me like they did. They jump up and marry, I wouldn't be surprised if some
little ten, twelve year old children don't get married, it wouldn't surprise
me a bit. They didn't marry as young, as early as the young people do this
day and time.
Interviewer: Would you say there was a difference in the races getting married?
The whites tend to marry younf.er than the blacks?
Mrs. Horton: Well I don't know, I don't knm» how old they would be, but seems
that they'd be pretty old when they would get married, no older than eighteen
or nineteen. But now they marry younger than that don't they? Some of them
do.
�5
Well Mrs. Horton, I see that you have company coming and I won't hold you any
longer. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
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Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Brooks, Mabel L.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Horton, Jenny
Interview Date
6/17/1974
Location
The location of the interview.
Boone, NC
Number of pages
5 pages
Date digitized
9/16/2014
File size
3.11MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
acacad4985e3489eaecff5dca3a621e2
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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111_tape288_JennyHorton_transcript_M
Title
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Interview with Jenny Horton [June 17, 1984]
Language
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English
English
Type
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Document
Creator
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Brooks, Mabel L.
Horton, Jenny
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County
Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County
Horton, Jenny
Description
An account of the resource
Jenny Horton, a black woman living in Boone, talks about working as a cook most of her life. She worked in a hospital for a few years, but had to stop after she developed arthritis. She talks about the rationing of sugar, flour, meat, coffee, and other foods during the Depression and the different views on medicine people used to have. People were much more likely to use home remedies than go to the doctor. She also explains there was "a lot of tension between whites and blacks."
Boone
farming
gardem
garden
Great Depression
grits mill
home remedies
Jenny Horton
Michigan
Monroe
North Carolina
Pennyslvania
Poconos
segregation
Watauga Hospital
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/43395a413921417dae7245f68e238901.pdf
b25813346867e8597f1d7abf616b108f
PDF Text
Text
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, Tape 79
Interviewee: Ted Potter
Interviewer: Karalyn Shelton
Date: 12 June 1973
Transcriber: J. McTaggart
Karalyn Shelton: This is an interview with Mr. Ted Potter for the Appalachian Oral History Project by
Karalyn Shelton at Mr. Potter's home on June 12th, 1973. Okay, where were you born, Mr. Potter?
Ted Potter: I was born up, back up there on the mountain.
KS: In this area?
TP: Yes.
KS: Okay. What year were you born in?
TP: 1908.
KS: Okay. Uh, do you know Tamarack got its name?
TP: Mm no. I don't know unless they got it from the Tamaracks and [inaudible].
KS: Okay, well um has anything happened in this community that you can think of that really changed it?
TP: It's changed a lot. They made that road. Roads are getting better.
KS: They're better now.
TP: Yeah.
KS: How did they used to be?
Female voice: [Inaudible].
TP: [Inaudible] rocky...
KS: Okay, do you know who some of the first settlers were in this area?
TP: The first settlers?
KS: Mm hm, what families?
TP: I reckon it was the Mains and Potters.
KS: Okay, what were your parents' names?
TP: Johno Potter and Lily Potter.
�KS: Where were they born?
TP: Well, I think Mama was born right here in the barn, wasn't she...
FV: I think so.
KS: Well, where was your daddy born, just in this area?
TP: Yeah, he must've been born...l wanna say, I believe he was born back up on the mountain.
KS: Well, how many children were there in your family?
TP: In my family?
KS: Yeah.
TP: Eleven.
KS: Eleven?
TP: Yeah.
KS: Well, what are their names and ages?
TP: [Inaudible]
Female voice: [Inaudible]
KS: Who came after Bert?
TP: [Inaudible] and then Lady Bell and then Boyd...
KS: You wanna read 'em to me?
Female voice: No, I can't see [inaudible]...
KS: Well after Lady Bell was Boyd then Nel and then Rosimer (?) then Ted Ward, Bonnie Lou and born in
1908, and then Ms. [inaudible] was born in 1910, okay. Well, what about your family, your mama and
daddy's family. How many young'uns was in that family?
TP: Five of us.
KS: What were all their names?
TP: Well, uh there's...
Female voice: There's Ted and Ennie (?) and Nan (?) and Charles and Rob of the [inaudible] first family.
Wasn't there?
TP: Yeah and then there's seven in the last one.
�FV: Well, we'll have to count 'em up I don't know how many. There's uh Fred and Howard and Dane and
Velma and Juanita, they call her Tu, who's the other ones?
TP:Johno.
FV: Yeah, Johno. That's six.
TP: And Bart.
FV: Bart's seven.
KS: That's a big family.
FV: I believe that's all of them. Then they've got three, three of the...one of the first one's to join
[inaudible]...
TP: Two, two's dead...
FV: Two's dead.
KS: Well, what did your daddy do for a living?
TP: Well, he uh carried the mail and...
FV: I give up [inaudible].
KS: He logged?
TP: Yeah, yeah, he logged for years when he wasn't carrying the mail.
KS: Well, how did he carry the mail?
TP: Well, he walked to the post office down here at the forks of the road up on the mountain and then
he'd ride from [inaudible] to uh [inaudible].
KS: So he walked and rode the horse?
TP: Yes,
KS: Well, um how much land did your daddy have?
TP: I believe this whole town. Well, when he was dying he was still in charge of 150 acres [inaudible].
KS: Well, did you move a lot or did you just stay around in this area?
TP: [Inaudible] You mean did he move or?
KS: No, you.
TP: No, I've lived right here all my life ever since I've been married and that's forty...43 years?
�FV: I don't know! [Inaudible]
TP: [Chuckles]
KS: But you've lived in this house right here for all them many years?
TP: No; we lived in an old house.
FV: No, we lived in a little ol' box house up here in [inaudible].
TP: I guess I moved well about 20 feet still from [inaudible].
KS: Mm hm, well where did you go to school?
TP: Down here at [inaudible] down by the post office.
KS: How many years did you get to go to school?
TP: Well, I didn't, well I [inaudible] third grade. I [inaudible] didn't go much.
KS: How many months did they have school out of the year?
FV: Six back then I think!
TP: Yeah, they had [inaudible] six months out of the year.
KS: Well, what were the teachers like?
TP: Well, there's uh Charlotte Thompson was my teacher [chuckles] and Ms. Rainy. She's a middle age
woman, wasn't she?
FV:Yeah.
TP: Uh, Louise Sutherland, you remember her don't you? How she looked?
KS: No, I don't believe I can.
TP: She teach school down here. [Inaudible] them [inaudible] that lives over there in the Cove Creek
they teach down here. [Inaudible] Weinberger he teach down here.
KS: Well, what were they like, were they strict with you?
TP: Yeah, they [inaudible] up on you. Well, they'd take kids back down uh make them [inaudible]. I
reckon they're meaner now. They're now [inaudible]. They had to be rough on us [chuckles].
KS: How were they meaner?
TP: [Inaudible] just [inaudible] right there. You know where [inaudible] and stuff like that. They wasn't
uh they hit, when I [inaudible] beat up on you and I reckon it'd make you a lot meaner.
�KS: Oh well, what kind of punishment did they have?
TP: Well, they'd [inaudible] roots with a [inaudible].
KS: Well, what subjects did they teach?
TP: You mean in Boone?
KS: Uh huh.
TP: Here at [inaudible] I don't know what it really, I forget really what was the highest grades. Back then
they had these old timey primers. You know when you first start middle school.
KS: Well, did you just have a primer in the first grade?
TP: Yeah, that's all we had just...
FV: They had ABC's and [inaudible].
TP: Yeah, you just had back in them days there wasn't like [inaudible]. [Inaudible] uh saw mills, logs and
timber.
KS: Mm hm.
TP: And you had to do all the work [inaudible] with horse and mules and steers and oxens would haul
'em.
KS: Well, did your whole family get to go to school?
TP: Yes, they all went a little, I reckon.
KS: Have the schools changed much over the years?
TP: Oh yeah, they've changed a lot.
KS: How have they changed?
TP: Well, you see they put this transportation on and they cut these schools out of the settlements. And
put the buses on them see takes uh the kids there.
KS: What was the first job you ever had?
TP: Well I, I've logged. I've logged here. It wasn't too long. [Inaudible] with a hoe was. Back then you
didn't have no work [inaudible].
KS: Well, what else did they have besides the hoe?
�TP: Maybe some old turning [inaudible] you turn the ground and then I don't reckon there's any
[inaudible] back in them days. One of these old wooden [inaudible] and most of 'em just go over and cut
'em [inaudible] brash, stone brash [inaudible].
KS: Oh, well did you do any...
FV: [Inaudible] just a dollar a day and sometimes it was like 90 cents.
TP: Yeah, now-a-day we [inaudible]. Way back years, before they had [inaudible] it was about 50 cents a
day.
KS: Well, did you have any other jobs besides logging?
TP: Not before I was married.
KS: Well, what else have you done?
TP: I've carried the mail and was carrying the mail when I was married. Then they build some bigger
roads to go on.
FV: You worked over yonder at [inaudible].
TP: I drove on that trade road from Craigstate(?) line. I have to build a [inaudible] over there on that
road that goes through [inaudible].
KS: When was the hardest time you ever had getting a job?
TP: Well uh, to take on the time uh you could hardly get a job.
KS: When was this?
TP: I had to [inaudible] married and...
KS: Was this during the Depression?
TP: Yeah, yeah right in there, the Depression.
KS: Well, how did it affect you and your family?
TP: [Inaudible] uh had to dig lots of roots and skin cherry bark to get along.
KS: Well, did you raise your own food?
TP:Yeah.
KS: What did you raise?
TP: Corn and beans and meat.
�KS: What kind of meat?
TP: Hog meat, killed about two hogs every fall.
FV: Raised buckwheat and make pancakes.
TP: [Laughter]
FV: [Laughter]
KS: Well, did you raise any of these crops to sell?
TP: No, took about all of 'em back then [inaudible]. It wasn't like it is now. You what you made, you see
people went through the summer made their uh what you say your meat and veggies. You raised your
corn and had it to your mill grain or go to the mill every couple during the week.
KS: Well, where was this mill at?
TP: Uh well, there's some all right along up and [inaudible] had one up here. Fred Emerson he lives up
there; he had a mill up there [inaudible]. Earl Lynn he had mill there for years.
FV: [Inaudible] had one up there.
TP: Yeah, Frank Naylor had one up there.
KS: Well, can you remember anything about the banks during the Depression?
TP: Well, the banks?
KS:Mmhm.
TP: Yeah, they went bank, they claimed that they went broke or busted.
KS: Well, did you have any money in at that time?
TP: No [chuckles]. You couldn't have no money back them days.
KS: Uh huh, well, where were you working during the Depression?
TP: Well, I had to quit carrying the mail I just make a [inaudible] around on the farm. Make what we eat
just skinning cherry bark and haw bark and digging roots.
KS: How much money did you get for this cherry bark and roots and stuff?
TP: Well, I don't know it wasn't...cherry bark it wasn't over 2 cents, was it?
FV: No.
TP: And the haw bark it run up 6 maybe cents a pound, wasn't it?
�8
FV: [Inaudible] for 5 cents then it went up to 8 [inaudible].
KS: Well, back during the Depression it took a whole lot of cherry bark and stuff to get money didn't it?
TP: Yeah it just, you had work pretty steady at it. Like [inaudible] you had to work pretty steady at it to
uh get something to eat.
KS: Well, did any of your children have to leave home or anything during that time to get a job?
TP: No, no they wasn't big enough to.
KS: Oh, they wasn't?
TP: And we got a pretty well grown [inaudible] Bernice she took that polio.
KS: Well, um do you remember any programs like WPA or CCC?
TP: Yeah, when they first started that WPA I think we first went to work on [inaudible] work up and
down the roads. And they give a lot, give us an [inaudible] that store up there at Boone. We'd go up
there and get had to go up there and take that [inaudible] team. Me and [inaudible].
KS: So you worked on...
FV: [Inaudible] talking [inaudible].
TP: Nobody gives them...they had to [inaudible]. The store gave enough wheat for your work all week
and you had to take it to Boone up there and [inaudible] the store and take that...
KS: Well, did you work on the WPA?
TP:Yeah.
KS: Well, what all did you do?
TP: Well, I helped build that surge line or sewage in Boone up there on the State Farm. And then later I
worked in Blowing Rock a year or two, didn't I?
FV: Yeah.
TP: Walk up there to uh go over there into Wade [inaudible]. It's through the mountain and catch the
state truck there and ride it on into Blowing Rock.
KS: Well, can you remember the first car that came in here?
TP: Yeah.
KS: Well, uh who had it?
TP: Will Sutherland.
�KS: What kind was it?
TP: I think it's an old A-Model and cloth top.
KS: Well, what'd you think about it when you saw that?
TP: [Laughter] I don't know what I thought about it them days. Shoot. My memories just a little bit
[inaudible]. Down there right well when that old road come up through there then is right in front of
that old house I lived on where my grandpap lived. He drove it up there and turned it. An old two seater,
cloth top A-Model.
KS: Well, before that how did people get around?
TP: [Inaudible] buggies, hecks (?), wagons...
KS: What's a heck?
FV: Riding horse.
TP: [Laughter] Yeah, it's an old four wheel outfit with two seats on it made like a buggy. It had a bed on
it and had two seats on it.
KS: Well, uh what churches did they have around here then?
TP: Uh Baptist Church it set down here where this Baptist Church is. And then the Christian Church uh it
set down right down uh just about where Curtis [inaudible] store is.
KS: Well, where did most people go to church around here?
TP: Well, they split up like they're now, part of 'em go to the Baptist Church and part to the Christian
Church.
KS: Well, do you think the preachers have changed much over the years?
TP: Well, I don't know whether they have or not. They, I know one thing they've done they've back them
days they would walk and now-a-days they ride they've got the cars to ride in [chuckles].
KS: Where did they walk from?
TP: Well, you see they'd walk from or ride horses from wherever they lived, you see, to church.
KS: Well, did they ever spend the night with any of the members or anything?
TP: Yeah, back them days they would stay over. Well, uh most of would have a week's meat and they'd
spend a week with uh Christians one day and members of the church and they'd spend the nights.
KS: Well, how did the teachers do? Did they stay with students or did they have their homes around
here?
�10
TP: Uh, you see Earl Wineberger he lived back in yonder there and he had a big he had him a horse, a
grey horse and a black one. He'd ride one of the horses and ask [inaudible] or one of the boys to ride the
other one across the mountain. And I don't know, I forget how Charles Hompson got over here. I don't
know, seemed like he boarded. [Inaudible] but I have I can't remember where exactly—it seems like he
boarded in [inaudible].
KS: Well, did the Depression affect the schools in anyway?
TP: Yeah, that Depression is hard on everybody.
KS: Well, how did the schools change during that time?
TP: Well, they never changed too much they just keep dragging along you know just people trying to
send their young'uns. Once they got big enough they had to help work the fields, making corn, and stuff
like that.
KS: Who do you think was hit the hardest by the depression?
TP: Well, I don't know. See if the banks went broke like they claim they did then them fellers that had
decent money in 'em of course it hurt them. But [inaudible] to keep something to keep the poor man he
didn't have [inaudible].
KS: Well, back in the days when you was younger, did they have any bad men or outlaws or anything
around here?
TP: Yeah, they were here. [Inaudible] Potters they think he was bad and then they had a killing, well a lot
a killing. Several was killed down there. And they spread the [inaudible]. There were several killed down
there and they [inaudible].
KS: Were those people born here or did they just come into to this section?
TP: Wel,l part of 'em come in from Kentucky. 01' man Brooms(?) then [inaudible] then they come in, you
see.
KS: Well, who was the sheriff then?
TP: I 'bout forgot [coughs] who was the High Sheriff. The first one I remember was uh I believe his name
was Young, Sheriff Young they called him. His name was Young. And he had a daddy that Ed Horton, I
think was his daddy [inaudible]. They change so much, you see, and I think the time I just can't...
KS: Did any of 'em ever get killed?
TP: No, not at all. Officers never did get killed,
KS: Did Tamarack have a jail or anything?
TP: No, no, they take 'em out. When they arrest 'em, they take 'em to Boone's jail just like they do now.
�11
KS: What kind of buildings did they have, like post office and stuff like that?
TP: They just old building, store house just like the one on old [inaudible], store house [inaudible]. Of
course, some of 'em was bigger but just like uh it like [inaudible].
KS: Well, where was the country store around here?
TP: Down there at the fork in the road. Frank Miller owned a store there for years. And then uh after he
quit uh Curtis Potter took up the store down there.
KS: What all kinds of things did they carry in their store?
TP: Well, they carried dried goods and groceries and uh every now and then you'd buy you coffee. You'd
have to buy and the grain. Most of the time you'd have to parch it, grind it at [chuckles] the mill.
KS: Well, did anybody moonshine around here?
TP: Yeah, they [inaudible] moonshining and bootlegging went on back them days, back when I was a
boy.
[END OF SIDE ONE]
TP: ...with a you can cook then you had a six gallon barrel and a little beat boxes back then. They took a
bushel of meal there to the barrel and they put the malt and rye chalk. I've even put a gallon of rye chalk
in the barrel. It takes that about a week to go sour and work off and make the alcohol.
KS: Was it good?
TP: Yeah, just like the on his grain [inaudible] back them days once drain for the [inaudible]. See they,
see they don't know what to make out of it.
KS: Did anybody ever try to stop 'em from making moonshine?
TP: Yeah, the law they's report 'em in and the law they would come and search and hunt for 'em, see. If
they had to arrest a man, they'd have to [inaudible] back when I was a boy put him on a horse up behind
them and take him in [chuckles].
KS: Any revenuers ever come in?
TP: No, I don't reckon there wasn't no federal [inaudible] back then it was just the county officers that
there.
KS: Well, what did they do to you when they took you to Boone?
TP: Well, they was pretty rough on 'em. They fined 'em maybe they'd have to go to jail cells.
KS: How much did moonshine cost?
�12
TP: I believe you could buy you uh it was you could buy a [inaudible] for $10 a gallon.
KS: It was that expensive?
TP: Huh?
KS: It was that expensive?
TP: Yeah, they'd sell it to trade for $10 a gallon and where'd they take a [inaudible] then they'd have for
about $6 a gallon. And take it back into Tennessee in [inaudible]. I believe they put about six and four,
they put about four cans to a hemp sack, tow sack they called 'em, and they'd put one on each side of a
horse roll up on the horse and take it to Tennessee. Take it over night and they'd stay overnight over
there. And then there was a drunk and they come at it. They would get them two or three half gallon
cans and they [inaudible] in their saddle pockets and ride off with it.
KS: [Chuckles] Well, what did you do for amusement when you was a little boy?
TP: For what?
KS: For amusement, what did you play with?
TP: I forget. You see, back then there wasn't no toys to play with it was just, I forget. Little kids back
them days there wasn't much to play with [inaudible]. We had no toys like there is now.
KS: What was Christmas like?
TP: Well, they [car horn honks] there's some difference in it, not too much. There's, now-a-days people
they buy most of 'em buys their cakes and stuff. Back them days they'd [inaudible] and bake.
KS: Did you have Christmas trees?
TP: No, no Christmas tree [inaudible, chuckles].
KS: Didn't anybody have a Christmas tree?
TP: No, they didn't. Nobody had a Christmas tree.
KS: Did anybody believe in Santa Claus?
TP: Well maybe, some of the kids would. And back then they'd go around your neighbors and go around
and fix up some kind of old [inaudible] spaces maybe the night before Christmas. They just [inaudible]
candy, there wasn't no toys then [inaudible].
KS: How much did candy cost back then?
TP: I forget just one cost but it was way damn cheap I [inaudible]. You can get a right smart little pop for
a dime [inaudible] candy in buckets. Well, I guess it [inaudible] in buckets, wooden buckets, the bulk
candy was. The stick candy was in boxes like it is now I'd say. And there wasn't no uh well there way up,
�Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C.
This electrostatic copy is subject to United States Copyright Law (Title 17, U.S. Code).
3
way up that [inaudible] I don't reckon it was the later I got going [inaudible] bark candy, you know,
would break your teeth, it was just all loose candy.
KS: What kind of medicines did they use back then? TP: Well, I don't know. If anybody gets sick they just go, go to the doctor. And I don't know I reckon he
made his medicine.
KS: What kinds did he use?
TP: Huh?
KS: What kinds of medicines did he use?
TP: Well there, use quinine and you know stuff like that most the time. And I don't know what else he uh
made medicine out of.
KS: Well, what about home remedies? What kind of home remedies did they have?
TP: What?
KS: That your mama made up.
TP: Well, they make bone-sift (?) tea and there's some other kind of tea. See there wasn't no aspirins or
none of these pills like there is now. No aspirins...nothing like that.
KS: Can you remember any legends or tales or superstitions that people had back then that's maybe
been passed down to you?
TP: No.
KS: Did your grandfather ever tell you anything about the Civil War or your Papa?
TP: No, I never did hear any him talk too much about it [inaudible]...
[Children yelling in background]
TP: You see, if they wasn't [inaudible] ol' Grandpap he was [inaudible]. He was just uh...his daddy
[inaudible] and Granny's daddy [inaudible].
KS: Was there ever any Negro slaves around here that you heard about?
TP: Yeah, up here on the [inaudible] place used to be a family of Negros that lived up there.
KS: Were they slaves?
TP: No, no they lived up there just like any other family go and make their, made their living.
KS: Well, how did people like 'em?
�Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C.
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_4
TP: Uh they liked 'em all right. They had a little good I reckon they would you know barter with 'em and
ask somebody if they talked to 'em. Yeah they's...! forget what the nigger man's name was but the lady
her name was Reena [inaudible]. [Note: this is the Red or Read family.] Most of 'ems buried up there
just to go up and touch [inaudible].
KS: Would people around here very superstitious back then?
TP: No, they wasn't superstitious.
KS: Was there anything you can think to tell me about the old days?
TP: No [chuckles], you forget a lot.
KS: Mm hm, would you like to live back there in them days, now?
TP: Well I don't know whether I would or not. It's...back them days nobody much tried to save, save any
money like they do now-a-days. Always looking at any [inaudible] to make their what they went up on,
you know, to raise a family.
KS: Well, thank you.
[END]
�
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
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Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
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Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-27
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Title
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Interview with Ted Potter, June 12, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Ted Potter was born in Tamarack, NC in 1908 and throughout his life was a logger, mail carrier, and farmer.
Mr. Potter recalls childhood memories of Christmas, moonshining, and the Great Depression. He discusses the schoolhouse experience from his childhood as well as farming during the Great Depression.
Creator
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Shelton, Karalyn
Potter, Ted
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
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6/12/1973
Rights
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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14 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape79_TedPotter_1973_06_12M001
Spatial Coverage
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Todd, NC
Subject
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Potter, Ted--Interviews
Depressions--1929--North Carolina--Tamarack
Farm life--North Carolina--Tamarack--20th century
Tamarack (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Boone
CCC
Civilian Conservation Corps
farming
Great Depression
moonshining
North Carolina
schoolhouse
Tamarack
Ted Potter
Works Progress Administration
WPA
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/918b1ffafa4a2a9fe248bbb995492337.pdf
de1b7557918f512ebb32acd029a18650
PDF Text
Text
AUH f Y-L
This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History
Program with Mr. C. K. Morris of Meat Camp, North .Carolina.
The interview is by Mike McNeely and today's date is
June 11, 1973.
Q. Alright, Mr. Norris, Let's start out with talking about
your, the farm you were born on. When and where were you
born?
A. Right up at that old house.
Q. What was the year you were born?
A. Eighteen and ninety-one.
Q. Okay.
Uh, ya...ya daddy was a farmer, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
A. I had three sisters and three brothers.
Q. Sounds like your daddy had a lot of help on that farm.
A. Well, right much.
Q. Let me get something here.
Uh, how big was the farm?
A. Uh...
Q. Acre wise...
A. Uh, you might say it's only about, about forty acres now,
till we added more to it.
Q. And how much of that forty acres was used for farming?
A. Well, I'll say about half of it.
�AOH # 71
Q.
What all did you grow?
A.
Crowed potatoes, corn,, cabbage, wheat, rye, buckwheat.
And we had our own fruit, had ? orchard with plenty of
apples. We kept cows, made our milk, made butter and
cheese. Kept chickens for eggs and for the market. That's
about all the farming.
Q.
How much of the vegetables and stuff that you grew, how much
of that was used for the market and how much for your own,
home grown use ?
A.
Well, it took right much to feed all them people. I'd say
about half, about half a that amount. And that, the surplus
was hauled to town. It was hauled to Lenoir, Hickory, and
Morganton. We bought our salt and flour and what groceries
we used then out of the store, we bought with surplus, and
paid on taxes. We h?d to have enough to pay the taxes. And
on this farm one time, the tax was only about $4, 00,
Q.
Was that with all the buildings and everything on it?
A.
Yeah, and now I pay a hundred or more. A lot of difference.
Q.
Did you have hogs on your farm?
A.
Yes, We raised our own meat, raised our hogs, raised a few calves
for the market. And there wasn't so many cattle in the county then,.
like there is now. Most every family had, oh, from three to six
cows. And they milked 'em-a big family used a lot of milk.
And they'd sell off the calf. A plump, good calf would bring
ten dollars,, ten dollars to twenty dollars, A cow would bring about
twenty-five. Mow ed, mowed the meadow with a mowing
siythe. You know what th$t is. Cradle it, cut the grain with a
cradle- you ever seen a grain cradle?
Q. I'm not sure. You got one up in your barn?
A".
There's one a hanging right out there in the back of that shed.
Q.
You shew it to me pfterwhile, and I'll get a picture of it.
I saw your cniltivstor, pnd you had & plow ?nd what else?
�A.
We had a lay-off plow and a cultivator. Where they cleared
the land - where they cleared , now they'd go in the woods and
clear , like that over there. 'That mountain, one time, was
in timber all over this bottom. Go in there, and cut that
timber and pile it and cut it, and saw it up, so they could roll
it in big piles and burn it. Burn the logs and the brush. And
if it was too bad, the first year they'd dig holes sndijilant their
corn and beans. Dig holes with a hoe. And by next year, thye'd
take - they used 9 lot of them, ole shovel plows. Just one plow like sort a like a. cultivator, you know, a lay - off plow. They used
them a lot in gauching up the land. They used mainly the hoe
in the steep land. A lot of land was used , farmed and never cultivated.
I mean they just dug it with a hoe. Stacked their hay, mowed with a scythe,
and stacked their hay out in the meadow. You've seen hay stacks, plenty
of them.
Q. There's not as m^ny now, though as there were.
A. No, no body stacks their hay anymore. Very few really. Back on Cove
Creek way, they.stack right much hay, back toward Mountain City.
Q. Did you let your hogs - I was reading somewhere that a lot of people let
their hogs run free back then.
A. Run their hogs, and their sheep and some cattle - run 'em out in the range. Turn
'em out in the spring and go and, go and get what was left in the fall. And
everybody had fences and some cattle just run out on the outside. They had
stocklaw then and everybody had a fence back when I was growing up. All
the fences were made out of rails. Made out a split rails, yonder lies
a pile right now.
Q. How was that meat from the cows and hogs that ran free around
wag -fotfesin the woods? Was it any good?
'
•w
^
A. Oh yeah. Well, they'd bring 'em in now, they drove - bring
•em in and put 'em in pens and feed 'em corn a while before
they killed 'env And they's a lot - now some of them,
they's sjpme run out and was killed just off of the mash.
Had lots of chestnuts and acorns, and them hogs would get
just as fat , and that was the best meat you ever tasted.
A lot of -'em noe, they'd bring their hogs in, they had 'em
marked, every man, you know, they'd get together. And every
man had a certain mark that he knowed his hogs. And then
when they brought 'em in, they'd sort 'em out. Get "em in
a pen, a lot somewhere, and every fella pick 'em out.
A lot of 'em'd go wild. Once in a while, they'd never get
'em. They'd be wild hogs out in the mountains.
�Q. When did ya'll have your - did you have an annual kill, or
you ju$t kill 'em at different times during the year of what?
A. Anytime, anytime, there wasn't no slaughter pens at that time
My neighbors'd go in and help each other kill hogs. Sometimes
they'd kill fifteen or twenty a day. A whole lot of hands go
in, keep water in big ole pots and barrels and fill a barrel.
And they'd kill their hogs and drag 'em in. I've helped kill
as high as twelve of fourteen in a day. Kill, maybe one man'
have two or three of half a dozen. Go in and dress his'n out
whatever he wanted to kill. A lot of times, they's killed
one or two at, a time. They didn't go in and butcher 'em all
day long lik;rthey do now. •-/• And I never treated 'em or never
really took care of 'em, just kill 'em and salt the meat in
big ole barrels. And where they'd stay, well I've seen old
buildings was good then like that one there and they's
just hanging a;; over up stairs.
Did they smoke a lot of it?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did they smoke it instead of salt it?
A. They had to salt it, It'd take salt - they had to let
it take the salt and then they'd hang it up and smoke it.
They salted it in them barrels and lets see, there's about
a month and a half to two months and then they'd hang it
up, and then they'd put that smoke under it.
Q. Did the smoke give it any flavor?
A. Oh yeah, that smoke flavor's real, well, you can get this
breakfast bacon that's got that smokeed flavor. It was
more of a smoked flavor then, when we smoked it in the ole
smoke houses than they did in this bacon you buy.
Q. That's sorta like getting charcoal broiled hamburgers now,
get the taste of it like that?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, you didn't have refrigerators or freezers back then...
A. No, we didn't have no freezers, and we kept the milk and butter
in the , had the spring house. Built a house right up the
spring. The water run in, and they have a big ole
trough as long as that car that run that the water right from
the spring in there and they kept their milk and their, all of
their stuff that, they like to use a freezer now. All their
pickled beans and kraut and everything that stayed in that
water. And it was like that, it kept it cold. And they
kept their butter and they salted and canned a lot of their
meat. They canned that and salted as we do yet. And they
salted and tender loined and all that stuff"now, they put
in cans and it'll keep right on.
Q. How about your vegetables? You didn't keep them in your
spring house did ya?
�A. No, nothing much. We buried the cabbage, the potatoes
and rutabaga and all the root crops eventually we
.
And we buried the cabbage and they're burying a lot of times,
burying a lot of them cabbage and use 'em all winter and the
dig 'em up, and sometimes there'd be a whole big field of
'em. And in the winter, they'd haul 'em to market they didn't
need to use and make barrels of kraut. I've seen them ole
wooden barrels - the fifty gallon barrels of kraut. And they'd
haul it to market a lot of it to sell it, oh, in a pint or a
quart. Just measure it out. Used to haul it to Lenior,
and them niggers, you couldn't fight 'em off: of the wagon.
Q. How did you make kraut?
A. Well, ya have that - hack that cabbage up real fine, pack it
in a barrel, put salt on it. Put so much salt. And then they
weight it down, put a plank on the barrel, put a rock and then
they'd put weight on it. And it'd pickle that cabbage in
only a little while. It didn't take it long to pickle it.
And then you'd have kraut right on.
Q. Was that kraut better than what you get over at Watauga?
A. Two to one better! Way better. That old chopped
really good. Take a dish of that kraut on a cold
and put a little sugar and black pepper on it and
it raw. It's good cooked too. I love it raw and
It was really good.
kraut was
winter day
just eat
do yet.
Q. Do you remember any days like Christmas or Easter or your
birthday or anything? What was Christmas like back when you
were a child?
A. Well, we didn't have much Christmas. I gotta stick or two
of candy and an apple or two, and a orange once in a while.
We didn't have but way little Christmas. Most kids got a
few sticks of candy. Didn't have no toys. Very few toys
at that time.
Q. Did you have a Christmas tree?
A. Sometimes we'd have a little Christmas tree. Sometimes at
the closing of school, they'd have a big Christmas tree and
the kids would all getta, all getta a little package, a few
sticks of candy, orange, apple or two, and that's about it.
Baked ole molasses sweet bread for a cake. I love it now
better than anything you can buy.
Q. You ever make molasses yourself?
�A. Oh yeah, we made our own molasses.
Q. How do you do that?
A. Well you grow the cane and pull the fodder off of it. Go
in and top and pull the fodder off and run it through them
rollers and catch the juice. Run it through a cane mill.
You ever see a cane mill?
Q. I think so, yeah.
A. Two; big ole rollers, and you ground with a horse. Horse
pulled it. Big ole pole round and it just went round and
rounf. Stick that cane in and it squeezes juice out. And
they had a furnace and a big ole boiler sitting on it. And
they boiled that sown and made molasses. I've ground cane
a many a time till I'd just about freeze. And then the
kids'd come on and play on the cane stalks and have a good
time. Boiling molasses, ah, nearly every family back then
made their own molasses. Some of 'em made a hundred gallon
or two. But the average family didn't make but twenty or
forty gallon. And then they didn't have to have much sugar.
Sweetened a lot - and they made tree syrup.
Q. Maple syrup?
A. Maple syrup - maple sugar. I can remember my mother sweetening
her berries and fruits with the maple sugar. They'd have big
ole dishpans full of it and just go and shave off whatever
they wanted and put it in their fruit.
Q. Mr. Walter was telling about a guy that still does that,
when he makes pis molasses, he just boils it on down to sugar,
cakes it up, and goes and sells it to the stores.
A. Oh yeah, there's a few that still makes that tree sugar and
tree syrup.
Q. Did your mother use that much in her jellies when she was
making it?
A. Well,,1 don't know whether they used it much. They didn't
make much jelly at that time. I don't know whether they
used any in jelly or not. They could have, I guess. I
guess it would really be better flavor than the white sugar
now. I can remember when you could buy brown sugar. They got
it in big barrels. I've got some barrels now. Four hundred
pounds of brown sugar and you could buy it for $20.00, five
cents a pound. And the white sugar was a little bit higher.
And they weighed it out in, from a pound on up to whatever
you wanted. Dipped it out with' a scoop and put it in bags.
Q. Yeah, its already bagged up.
A. Yeah, it's up to four hundred pounds usually in a bag. And
a, and the first fertilizer that ever come to this county
come in barrels. Two hundred pounds in a barrel.
�Q. What did you use before fertilizer, before it came in the
barrels?
A. We didn't use it. We didn't have it. We just planted
without it.
Q. Did you use any, like cow manure or anything?
A. Yeah, we used what manure we had. We used manure, and the
earth growed the rest of it.
Q. How about the feed for the animals? Did you just feed them
some corn that you grew or did you go buy some of that or
grind it up...
A. Well, we ground into, I had it ground, some of 'em fed the
biggest part of it just whole. Feed your cattle whole. They
had some ground. They'd have the buckwheat and rye, they had
the small grains ground, but most the corn was just fed whole.
Wasn't no hammer mills. Just a flour mill and a corn mill
was all the mills there was then. There wasn't no thing as
a hammer mill. All water power. Back yonder all the mills
in this country was run by water. Big whole water wheels,
you've seen 'em.
Q. Like down at Mr. Winebarger's mill?
A. We take wagon loads of grain up there, of buckwheat, raised
buckwheat, and go and have it ground and then use a lot of
it for flour. And ole buckwheat cakes are good. And then
they haul it. They'd have that flour ground and put in ten,
twenty-five pound bags and haul it to Lenior and all down
south, Lenior, Morganton, Hickory, Statesville. And sell to
the stores. Swap it for wheat flour and we bought our salt.
We'd buy a hundred pounds of salt for sixty cents ($.60) then.
Q. Wow!
A. In Lenior, that's what it cost.
Q. Did you truck it down the mountain in wagons?
A. Oh yeah, there wasn't no trucks.
Done it all in wagons.
Q. How were the roads?
A. Muddy a lot of the time. Real muddy. Sometimes there'd be
a row of wagons as far as from here to the creek, right along
together. And they'd all camp out of the night, tie our
horses and cattle up and feed 'em. Lot of time we got to
make our bed on the ground under the wagon. After we'd get
a load off - after we'd get a load off the wagon, then we'd
have hay and stuff we'd fetch on our load for our produce,
you know, and then we'd sleep in the wagon. And it was fun
when the weather was good. I'd enjoy it now. But it was
rough going, when it was pouring rain or snowing.
Q. You had to go in the winter?
�A. Oh yeah. We'd go when it was cold weather. Oh, we had a lot
of apples then. Haul apples, potatoes, chestnuts, beans, shale
wheat, buckwheat flour, meat, butter, and stuffed hams - people
then sold a lot of hams. The farmers have more meat than they
could use, and they'd haul them and sell them to the stores.
And you didn't see much loaf, well, in this part of the country
they didn't. Very seldom did you see a loaf of bread in the
store. They didn't - well down in the bigger towns you could
get loaves of it some places. And you go in and you could buy
sausage and beef and
. We done our own cooking.
It was fun. Build a fire outside and cook potatoes and cabbage;
we didn't take time to cook beans. Fried taters and onions.
Tie our team up and feed 'em and while they were eating, we'd
get supper or breakfast. Fry eggs and meat. And hit was they was a lot of fun in it. Whole lot of hard work and
hardships too.
Q. Do you remember any incidences where a wagon didn't make it
all the way down? Where there any that ran off the road?
A. Well, not much. There's a woman or two got killed, run off the
road on a wagon, way down at Blowing Rock Mountain. And once
in awhile they'd be a team run away and tear up everything.
But not hardly ever hear tell of any. Once in awhile you
hear tell of a train running over a team and killing them.
And it took about four days to go, four or five days to go
to Lenior and back, sell your load out. Took about two days
to go and get your load off and get back home - and two more
to get back. And if it was slow selling, it took another day
Sometimes you'd see twenty-five or thirty wagons in town selling
produce. They peddled a lot; they'd go from house to house,
done a lot of peddlin'. And sometimes they'd buy half a
bushel of potatoes, apples, bushel - bushel of potatoes, maybe,
and a bushel of apples. Oh, the next house, maybe they didn't
want nothing, maybe the next one you'd go to would buy something. That's the way we got rid of a loy of it.
Q. What was the price of farm products back then?
A. Well, potatoes was a dollar or less a bushel. And apples sixty cents to a dollar a bushel. And cabbage was seventyfive cents to a dollar a hundred. Now we didn't get eight or
ten cents a pound back then like they do now.
Q. Did your mother, here at the house, did she bake a lot?
A. Yeah, they baked corn bread and biscuits, fried buckwheat
cakes , made light - homemade, light bread, baked pies,
cookies, sweet bread, that ole molassey bread. And that was
all done in an ole skillet by the fire.
Q. When did ya'll - ya'll get a wood stove?
�A. Finally, I can remember. I helped work out money to buy the
first wood stove my mother ever had to cook on.
Q. Which did she like better, working on the fireplace or the
cookstove?
A. Oh, it was much better to have a cookstove. Easier to do the
cooking, than it was by the fireplace. But that ole cornbread
and light bread baked in them ole skillets, it would melt in
your mouth. It was the best cornbread I ever eat. She had a
great big ole oven she baked light bread in. Loaf bread, they
call it now. A great big thing. And she'd mix her - make
up her yeast and get her dough ready, put it in that big ole
oven and she just heated it real slow, barely warm, you know.
And it'd rise a way up - just puff a way up there. Be that
thick. And then she'd put coals under it and she had a lid
to fit it, a cast iron lid. And it'd rise up there, and she
put the coals on that thing, heat it slow and after a while
it'd just finally turn - when it got done, there'd be a good
brown crust on it. And it was really good. A lot better than
this bread you buy now.
Q. How often did she bake?
A. Oh, only once in a while. Maybe every two or three weeks, to
make that light bread. They didn't bake it every day. They
made biscuits and I can remember when most people, they eat
cornbread for breakfast and biscuits every Sunday morning.
You wouldn't believe that.
Q. I believe it. I love cornbread.
A. I do too. I eat it, most the time, twice a day. They didn't
have wheat flour to make biscuits every day. And you used
eggs and shortening on the old cornbread, and it like you do
biscuits and it was pretty good.
Q. Did you ever have corn fritters?
A. Yeah, I've seen my mother bake corn sweet bread. Bake
it like they did the ole molassey bread, put molasses in it
and it was good. But I'd rather have that old molassey sweet
bread now than to have any you could go to the store and buy.
They baked what they called gingerbread. Great big, thick.
They baked it in cake, make them cakes to fit the skillet.
It was really good. Put ginger in it and that ole gingerbread was hard to turn down, when you're hungry.
Q. Your mother had to buy a lot of spices at the store didn't
she?
A. Yeah, they bought the grain spice and ground it.
�10
Q. Really? Did you have one of those things like a pepper thing
that you ground?
A. Ground the coffee - ground the coffee in the bean. They bought
that coffee green and they parched it, parched that coffee and
they - seen my mother a many a time parch that coffee in a one, them ole skillets. And they had a coffee mill. I've
ground coffee - you seen them, hadn't ya?
Q. Yeah.
A. Hold it between your knees, grind that coffee. The coffee
then, now you got real coffee then. There wasn't no dope in
it.
Q. Did they do the spices the same way?
A. leah, done the spices the same way. Pepper. Gosh, that
ole pepper. You get it in the grain and grind it, you
didn't have to make anything black to taste it. Ah, it's
a gettin' now, you can make your egg black now, and hardly
taste it.
Q. How about, did they dry a lot of stuff?
A. Dried berries, fruit, dried berries, apples, cherries of all
kind. Beans, dried beans, dried pumpkins, they dried a lot
of stuff. I can remember when my mother didn't have more than
two or three dozen cans. Dry that stuff and cook it. And
them ole dried beans, they was worth it.
Q. I've heard of drying apples - I've seen people drying apples
and beans and all. But I've never seen 'em dry cherries or
blackberries. How did they do it?
A. They used to dry lots of blackberries and cherries. And they
didn't do too much canning and they didn't have no way of
freezing it.
Q. How did they do it? Do you remember?
V
A. Well, they had grates, and they had good, big crates they'd
put 'em on. And when the sun shined good, they put 'em out
on....
Q. The apples they'd slice up and cook....
A. Slice up and dry it out. They dried the bigger part of their
fruit at that time. Dried sweet potatoes. My daddy used to
grow a lot of sweet potatoes. He didn't grow 'em for the
market. He'd just grow 'em to have plenty to use. They cooked
them and sliced 'em up and put 'em on crates. And when it
rained, they'd take 'em in and set them around the fireplace,
so that if they ever stayed out in the weather, they's spoil.
You had to keep them dry.
Q. Back then you had the spring houses, right? So that's where
you got your water. When did you build your well out here?
�XX
A. Oh, it's been about forty-two years or longer.
Q. Where was your spring house located?
A. We didn't even have a spring house here. There's a spring
down under the bank there that we used - we just had a box
down there. And we kept pur milk and stuff to keep it cold
in there 'til we dug the well. I was aiming to pump the
water from over yonder, but the spring went dry. And the
people built way up on the hill somewhere and they carried
their water up the hill. Why, they'd carry, some families
would carry as far as from here to the hog house over yonder.
Didn't think about a well or a pump. No, carried their
water from the spring/
Q. How often did you take baths back then?
A. Well, once a week, and you're lucky to do that.
Q. If you had to carry water that far, you wouldn't take it very
often.
A. Didn't have no bathroom in the houses. Outside toilets.
They wouldn't such a thing as a bathroom in the house. No
where in this county and its not been many years so there
wouldn't a bathroom in none of the houses that are here, in
this part of the county.
Q. How big was the house you were born in?
A. Oh, it had about four, four to five, five rooms, I guess.
And some places, they just had one or two big rooms, old log
houses. Three or four beds in one room and the kids slept
in
little beds you pushed under the big ones.
Q. Yeah, tumble beds. I've seen those.
A. And they didn't have a whold lot of room, like they build
houses now. Wasn't a bedroom in every little corner.
Q. Did your mother have to make all your clothing?
A. Bigger part of it. Weave, she had a loom and she'd weave the
cloth, weave clothing - made our clothing. And they made shoes.
There were men had shoe shops round and made most of them, wore
homemade shoes - men and the women. They had a few shoes in the
store, but the bigger part of the farmers wore homemade shoes.
A lot of the women - the women's dresses drug the ground. And
they wore button shoes up about that high. You never seen
them, did ya?
�JL/C
Q. I've seen pictures of them.
A. And the dresses drug the ground.
Q. Did they go to the store and buy the cloth to make their own
dresses?
A. Well, they went to the store and bought some, but the most part
was homemade. Wove at home. My mother had - she'd card the
wool and spin it. She had them spinning wheels and then she
had a tig ole.Toom that she wove that cloth. I've wore homemade clothes many a time, many a day. And they'd make their
underwear. They didn't wear much underwear, like they do now.
They'd make their pants and coats and vests and all like that
out of homemade - outa wool. That old wool'd get next to the
hide, it'd just scratch ya. It'd rip you to death. Wool and they knit your mittens and knit our scoks, outa that homemade wool.
Q. She didn't have a sewing machine, did she?
A. No, my mother never had a sewing machine in her life.
Q. She did all of it by hand?
A. Did it by hand. My aunt done a lot of sewing for people.
She had a sewing machine. Lived up the road here. But my mother
done all her sewing by hand. And the bigger half of the women
did it. Made their own dresses and their men's clothes and
everything by hand - sewed by hand.
Q. They made their quilts too, didn't they?
A. They made their own quilts. Wove their own blankets. Old
yarn blankets. Now that old wool blanket, it'll keep you
warm.
Q. Scratch you to death, but keep you warm.
A. They was really good and they'd last for years and years.
Had feather beds. They kept geece, and picked your feathers
out of them and made bedx. I sleep on a feather bed all year
round now. We've got two or three feather beds. My mother made
it in her life time. And I still sleep on it.
Q. Was the church really important in this community?
A. Well, more than it is today. About everybody walked to church
And ole timey preacher. And they got up there and preached,
we sat on ole benches. Had four legs on 'em shaved out of a
round piece like a chair post. No back. Hardly a few of 'em
had benchs of this - seats made out of plank. But back as Ion
as I can remember they sat on them old split logs. And they
all went and they enjoyed the meeting, they enjoyed the sermon.
And sometimes the preachers had to walk four or five miles.
And he's get maybe fifty cents or a dollar for two sermons.
And they all - and the preaching was over and they all walked
out and ever - out this road they all walked together. Where
�13
one or two would drop out, and they'd stand and talk and they
enjoyed themselves, much more than they do now.
Q. How often did you have meetings?
A. Well, they had it once a month, a lot of churches. Just have
it once a month, two services. Then they'd run a week or two
of revival, sometime during the year, usually in the fall of
the year. And they'd have a - have a real, live one. One
of 'em get happy and they'd really have a time.
Q. Was the preacher a hell-fire, brimstone preacher?
a mild one?
Or was he
A. Well, they - sometimes there'd be one preacher for eight or ten
years before they change. And then maybe they'd set a new one
amd maybe he'd serve a good many years. Now they have to have
a new one about every twelve months, don't they? A lot of
churches. They change right often.
Q. Did the preacher - what type of sermons did he preach? Did
he tell the people what they were doing wrong or did he tell
'em something they wanted to hear, like...
A. Ah, he went to the Bible for it. Told 'em their wrong doing.
Q. What church did you attend?
A. Meat Camp. Right over here. I went ot differnet churches.
Went to Howard's Creek. You know where Howard's Creek is?
Went there part of the time and went to the Rich Mountain
to that church. Sometimes we'd go way down yonder to Fairview
way down toward the river. People wasn't too selfish where
they went to then. Now they have to - there wasn't so many
churches as there is now. Built a lot more as time passed by.
Q. Were there a lot of community activities centered around the
church?
A. Well, not too much.
Not like it is now.
Q. Did ya'll have any square dances then?
A. No, they wasn't no - wasn't nothing of that kind a going on
in this part of the country.
Q. What did ya'll do for recreation, when you weren't farming?
A. Well, we'd go a fishing or squirrel huntin1 or something of
that kind.
Q. What did you do when you were courtin'?
A. Well, we walked out there to our girlfriend, whereever she
might be. Sometimes we'd go to church, sometimes we'd walk
out and pick cherries in the summertime. Sometimes they'd have
a candy pullin'. Gatherin' in all and have music. Not too
much dancing. There wasn't many people could dance.
�Q. Did they "flatfoot" a lot around here?
A. Well, not too much.
Q. What type of music did you have?
A. Had a fiddle and a banjo. Once in a while a guitar, French
harp. My daddy and a neighbor, they went lots of places and
made music. My daddy was a fiddler and my neighber was a
banjo-picker. They'd go to the closing of the school, sometimes to a neighbeor's house, make music - a few of the neighbors
would come in. They'd just set and enjoy it. Close of the
school, they usually had 'em come in. They'd give 'em a
dollar or two at the close of the school.
Q. Tell me something about the school around here, like the
size of it, and the people in it?
A. Well, these old school houses where they walked, I've known
teachers to walk five or six miles to teach school. And there
wasn't too many One teacher was all they had, and they teached
up to about the seventh grade. And then they had to go - they
went to Boone then to finish up. The eighth or tenth grade,
something like that. Go to Boone - go to town for the rest
of it.
Q. Tell me about life during the Depression.
A. Well, we got enough to get by with, but it was hard going, we
just had to work a day or two to get a little chew meal to help.
And we're lucky to get by with it. People didn't have enough
to eat. They got by, but Their clothes were pretty bad, hard
to get a day's work. Dug roots and drained the wood and dug
roots and gathered herbs to help keep clothing and something
to eat.
Q. How about - were there a lot of moonshiners?
A. No, not much. There's never been - oh there's a few around.
Right many in Wilkes County. And if they had to get something
to drink, they went to Wilkes and got the most ot it. I can
remember when you could buy corn whiskey for sixty cents a
gallon, and it was pure corn. And they was - there was one
man that made it, I'll never - my mother got some for my
grandmother once, take it back here between here and Todd,
on the Big Hill. He had a bonded outfit and they come around
and check 'em once in a while. Gaugers would come around they wasn't allowed to have so many barrels, you know. He'd
come around and they always knowed when he was coming, then they
would get it down to where they wasn't in no trouble. And
theycould sell - I don't know how much they's allowed to sell.
I was too little to know much about it.
�15
Q. Do you remember any government programs?
the CCC?
Such as the WPA and
A. No, no, well, I remember when the WPA worked here. They bought
'em a lot of mules to farm with. They were army mules that
was brought here when the war was over with Germany. And they
had people take 'em and work 'em. Farm 'em too, try to raise
'em something to eat. And they worked 'em on the road. They
worked a whole lot - the WPA worked at a building that highway ,
They let 'em work ehm mules, to farm with and, I don't know,
they all just gor old. Last one I ever knowed of, well it had
a picture of him. An old white mule and man a following the
plow. And they said the best they could estimate his age, he
was fifty-five years old. He was a relief mule.
Q. Oh, the mule was fifty-five years old.
A. He was fifty-five years old, the best they could estimate
his age. H<=: was still a pulling the plow. I never did get
one, I didn't use 'em. Had my own work horse. We plowed it
off a lot, plow, harrow with 'em, seen'a few worked a mowing
machine. But they was too slow to do much more with a machine
Most of it was with things like that out there. Pitch fork,
I've seen 'em use. I've seen 'em use old hoemmade pitchforks,
three-prong, I've got one. I'll show it to you. I've got one
that I guess is two hundred years old.
Q. You've given us a lot of information. I've just got one more
question. What's your philosophy of life? Do you have one?
A. No, I don't think I have one.
Q. Why do you think you've lived as long as you have?
getting along pretty good here.
A. Well I just worked hard all my life.
day, eat cornbread.
You're
Drink lots of water every
Q. Molasses bread too.
A. Molasses bread and I get along pretty good.
Q. Have you got anything you'd like to add to what we've already
talked about?
A. No, I couldn't think of anything more that would be of any
interest to you.
Q. Well, thank you very much.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scnajet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-24
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Title
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Interview with C.K. Norris, June 11, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
C.K. Norris was born in 1891 in Meat Camp, North Carolina where he grew up on a farm.
Mr. Norris talks mostly about growing up on the farm, such as raising crops and livestock. His family would haul their produce to Lenior, Hickory, and Morganton to be sold. Mr. Norris talks a lot about food throughout the interview including how to dry fruits and vegetables, make sauerkraut, use spices properly, grind coffee, salt meat, and make maple syrup. He also describes other aspects of his childhood including church, school, and the Great Depression. Mr. Norris also talks about WPA's affect in the Meat Camp area.
Creator
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McNeely, Mike
Norris, CK
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/11/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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15 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape71_CKNorris_undatedM001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Meat Camp, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Norris, C. K.--Interviews
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Depressions--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
United States--Work Projects Administration
C.K. Norris
cane mill
church
dried beans
dried fruit
farming
Great Depression
Hickory
hogs
Lenior
livestock
Meat Camp
Meat Camp Church
molasses
Morganton
North Carolina
sauerkraut
spices
spring house
wagon
weaving
WPA
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/27b53db1ad01c1f3a826eda7b31264f6.pdf
cb874bf7faff180b24891f6117d6ed17
PDF Text
Text
AOHP #$7
This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History Project on April
10, 1973. The interview is with Mr. L.E. Tuckwiller, County Agricultural
Extension Agent for Watauga County. The interview is being conducted by
Joy Lamm.
Q: Mr. Tuckwiller, you have been county extension agent for how long now?
At
Thirty years this last February.
Q: Are you going to be here thirty more?
At
No. I expect about another year and a half or two years will get my tenure
filled out.
Qt
Was this your first job?
At
No. I worked for a cooperative, coming out of school, for seven years -
Farmer's Cooperative over in Cherokee and Clay County, N.C.
Qt
What kind of cooperative?
At
It was handling feed, farming supplies. At that time we were making some
butter, and also we were pasteurizing some milk, and got into bottling milk
before I 16ft there. We were processing farm products and selling supplies also*
Q; Was this a large farming area?
A: No, it's a very small farming area. Farms are small - well, I would say
an average of 30-1*0 acres per farm. Most of the farmers had from one to five
cows and sold a little surplus milk. They also, at that time, were keeping a
large number of chickens - by large number, I mean most of them had a few
chickens which amounted to a large number in the area. Cur cooperative purchsed
the eggs, ran trucks through the community. We purchased the eggs and purchased
the chickens«
That was before broilers got to be very prominent, so we purchased
what we call fryer chickens, and roasters0 They were fryers after they weighed
about h Ibs., they they were called roasters after they got above that. So we did
quite a bit of business that way.
Qs
And then you pulled these and sold them at a market?
At
Sold them mostly in Atlanta, Georgia. We had a truck that usually carried the
produce to Atlanta each week* Thay would take some live chickens, some eggs and
�often times some butter, processed and packaged of course. We would bring back
farm supplies, and also, often times we would bring back feed.
Qs Now what years were these?
Aj That was 1931| - 19U2. I graduated from Berea in 193U, June, and went directly
to this cooperative. The post office was Brasstown, N.C, I left there in February
of 19U3 to come over here.
Qs
And so your only training before then was at Berea?
At
At Berea, yes. In the meantime, since I'*ve been working here, I've been to
workshops and extension courses. I've taken k of their three-week summer sessions.
I've had numerous week-long sessions of training, what we call in-service training.
I couldn't count those, there's been many of them, usually 2-U a year. So you
count 30 years, there were probably 75-100 of those week-long sessions.
Q: Plus working in the cooperative was probably the best trainifeg you could get,
wasn't it?
As That was good training, yes.
Q: What was your job in the cooperative?
A: When I started I was called the butter-maker. I made the butter, processed the
sour cream. I did that for approximately a year, then I was promoted to manager
of the Cooperative Feed Store, and as that I was kind of kicked upstairs to an
office.
Someone else took over the butter-making, and I suppose that would be the
title you would call me through the other six years that I was there. But, of
course, we grew from a small butter-making plant. We began to handle poultry and
eggs and more feed and supplies in 1937> so it increased in volume from, oh, I
think we had sales of something like $i|0,000 - $50,000 the first year, and it ran
up to about $250,000.
QJ What was the name of the co-op?
A: Mountain Valley Cooperative, Inc. It's defunct at the present time,, Went out
of business after we quit the manufacture of butter from sour cream collected from
farm to farm0 You see, the Health Department got into that a little bit.
�Qt
How did you make the butter?
A: The sour cream came to us in containers, cans , and we pasteurized it and made
the butter in those large churns - well, not a large churn - we would make from
300-500 Ibs. of butter at a time, but it wasn't large. Of course, they have churns
that will make k or f> tons of butter at a time.
Qs Was this electric or hand operated?
A: It was electric. The churn and the pasteurizer was electtic. Of course, we
had the steam boiler that produced the heat for pasteurization - just a process we
went through.
Q: And did you have a factory?
A: It was a small factory - I'd guess you would call it a small factory. The
building was about 100' X 1 0 I believe. Run one way kO1 and then we had the
|'
boiler room to the back. It was a small unit.
Q: Getting back to Berea, could you tell me about your schooling there; what you
studied, and what you remember about the school?
As Well, it was a four-year collegej a small college, with only about liOO students
when I went there. They did away with the section they called normal school, and
they built it up to around 800 by the time I left there. I went in 1930, right in
the bottom of the Depression, and then it was coming out of the Depression a little
bit in 193U» when I completed there.
Qs What was it like going to school during the Depression?
A: Well, I suppose it might have been easier going to school during the Depression
than any other time, because you couldn't get a job, and if you could make enough
to kino, of keep going, why you could feel like you had been occupied. So, I didn't
have any money, and Berea was a very economical school to attend - I worked 2 hours
during the week, and on Mondays when we didn't have classes. I usually tried to
work from U-6 hours, and of course our wages were Iow0 I think I started in around
1U# an hour and worked up to 2£# an hour, which is not quite the minimum wage now!
I was able to go through school - I think I had something like $165 when I went there-
�I borrowed from the strident fund, worked, and got out owing approximately $300,
Probably did pretty well. I worked through h years, stayed at the school during
the summer months, and worked - first summer I worked in a broom factory carrying
broom corn to the broom makers. Then I worked in the shipping department the latter
part of the summer. The other two years I worked in the creamery. That's where
I learned to make butter, pasteurize the milk, make cheese, so it was a learning
experience even while I was working.
Qs And this is what got you interested in the Job with the co-op?
At
I expect it was. At that time, jobs were very scarce. A few of the boys got
jobs teaching - or boys and girls - got jobs teaching. When that was over, there
were not many that were employing college graduates for more than just manual labor,
and I felt very fortunate to get a job; even though the salary was very low, it was
a job.
Q: Inhere was your family living during these depression years?
As My family was on the farm, or were paying on a farm in Greenberry County,
West Virginia, and they were lucky to keep their payments up, and they were not
able to help me. Also, the two sisters at that time were just finishing high school
and were ready to go to college. They finally wound up going about a term each, but
they didn't go through. But if there had been a little more money, they probably
would have.
Qt Were you born and raised in West Virginia?
AJ
Yes, I was.
Qs Was this in the mountainous section?
A«
Yes, it's not quite as mountainous as around Boone, but over where we were
raised it was what they called the rolling lando And, part of it got up on the
mountains also, but we had land you could get machinery over. It wasn't quite the
one-horse farm you find in some of the steeper mountains0 It was a 200-acre farm quite a. bit of land involved,
Q: T/fes there coal mining going on around there, or was it agricultural?
�A: It was agricultural entirely,. There was coal mining approximately 25 miles
away. We were - well, later than that it came a little closer when it got to strip
mining. But, we just at that time, some few were beginning to go to the coal
fields for work, because the roads were built just before that; they had hard
surfaced road, and they begun to get automobiles and trucks dependable enough to take
a transport to and from the coal mines. Up until that time, we were strictly
agricultural, and that was the only kind of work we had available. There was not
much money. I can tell people we grew up in poverty, but we didn't know it, se it
didn't make too much difference I guess*
Qt Did you make and have the things you needed from the farm?
A: Most things we made. We bought, I think my mother had the few chickens. She
made some homemade butter. She sold butter and eggs to get sugar, salt, coffee.
As I remember, that was most of the things we purchased. The rest of the things we got our meat, vegetables, wheat for the flour - most everything was produced
right there on the farm.
Q* When were you born?
A: September 16, 1908.
Qi Were you at home when the Depression started?
Ai I was - yes, I suppose. I finished high school in 1?29 and I got a job working
on a neighborhood sawmill, immediately after finishing high school, and my
application for college; I planned to work a year to try to get a little money to
go to school on. Actually, the Depression hit, started in 1930, and that's the
year I started to Berea, So, I had my application in, had been accepted, and was
planning to go when things begun to really tighten down.
Q: When you growing up on the farm, did your family farm by planting by the signs,
or did they have any superstitions regarding fanning?
AJ We heard about those all along, but as a rule we paid no attention to them.
My father was not much on signs, neither was my mother, so we planted when the
ground was dry, and we farmed when the weather was suitable, so I heard very little
�about the signs when I was growing up from my family. Now there were people in the
neighborhood who did farm by signs. They did certain jobs when the signs were right
and only when they were right. I heard them, but I never grew up believing in them
very much.
Q; Do you remember any particular superstitions?
A: Oh, I heard quite a number of things. If you planted when the sig.i was in Twin,
I believe, it was suppose to yield a good crop0 If you planted when the moon was on
the decrease, your bacon and fat would shrivel up when hogs were killed. Several things
I heard, but I don't remember too many of them.
Qs It was a whole lot easier to just go on and do what you wanted to do.
At
I tiling so, yes.
Qs
Did your mother help your father on the farm?
As Not too much, except my mother always did the milking in the summertime and my father
was working in the fields* Usually in the winter months, my father took over that chore.
My mother always tended to her chickens, those were hers. She took care of those0 The
rest of it, my father pretty well took care of. My mother was there were six of us
children born just two years apart then, for 11 years, so she had her hands full at the
house. I was the oldest of six. She didH have much time to get out in the farm. She
would help occasionally. In hay harvest, she would get cut and what we call hitch hay
shocks, bringing hay into the stacks. Or, she would drive the wagon hauling the hay
sometimes, something like that.
Q: What about your sisters? Did they have different tasks to do than the boys?
A: They had their household tasks to do, and as I remember, one of them would-it kind
of rotated-one of them would wash dishes, one of them would peel potatoes and prepare
�the vegetables, and one of them would carry in the wood-that got to be-we cooked with
a. wood stove-it was a right smart little chore sometimes. My father and I did a lot
of that, but during the summer months, why, that usually fell to the girls. They
carried the wood in from the wood shed, saw that everything was ready for the fire.
The water was on the back porch. Had an old well bucket, so they had to draw the water
at certain times. Some few things like that that I remember.
Q: Had your family been in that area for several generations?
A: Yes. The old family farm had been in the family since this area was settled, because that area, the colonists from Virginia began to spill over in there, about the
1^70's, sometime in there. Some of the little tales that I can remember about some
of the ancestors that had been in there. Around 1785, something like that—they had
been there for a long time.
Q: What are some of the tales that you remember?
-A: Well, the tales, of course the ones that are scary, and things like that, would be
the Indian raids. One that my grandmother used to tell was pouring scalding water through
the puncheon floor to scald an Indian that had crawled under the floor to try to get into
the house. Of course, that would be one I would remember, something like that. Then,
about hearing the Indians at night-acting like- making sounds like hoot owls communicating
with each other across from the home, and barring the door-keeping everything closed. I
remember those kind of things0
Qt
Did they ever have any attacks?
At
Not right in our immediate community. There was a fort some 8 or 10 miles away that
did have and Indian attack-in fact, I think it was burned. I believe one time, but there
was none right in our immediate community0
Q: What was the name of the fort?
�A:
Fort Donneley.
Q:
This was in your grandmother's day?
At
No, it was before my grandmother. My grandmother was born about 1852 or 1853• That
was after the Indians were driven out.
Ail these tales were before, just something
passed down by her parents or grandparents, or something. There was no Indian there
when my grandmother was, as far as I know. She said there was bears and deer. I heard
them tell about seeing deer go through the clearings they hacked out of the woods, things
like that.
Q:
Did they have some Civil War stories?
As
Tes. There were some Civil War stories. They were pretty well on the border, and
I think seme of the people went to each army, so there was-I don't know of any brothers
against brothers, but I've heard some tales of some cousins against cousins on different
sides. There was always an alert to - if the soldiers of either side were coming, they
were to hide in the woods or somewhere„
Qi Who was to hide?
AJ
The family-the women and children would hide.
Qs
Oh, the whole family would go hide?
AJ
Yes, they would particularly try to take care of the horses because the horses were
essential to the farm. So they would try to hide the horses0 There's one tale-this is
limestone country-and ther's one tale that they took the horses of anyone to a limestone
cave and took them back into where they couldn't hear the horses of any soldiers Cavalry
that came by.
Those were scary tales too, you know.
Q:
The soldiers on both sides would come through and just take whatever they wanted?
A:
Yes, that seemed to be the idea, that if either side would come through, they would
�pick up anthing was loose. If there was a cow or calf, they would drive it
off, you see. If they found any potatoes, why, they would take them. That's
all "hear say", but I would suspect that there is quite a bit of truth in it.
Q:
What side was your family on?
A:
Most of my family was on the Soughern side-Confederate side. My father's
people were all, and my mother's people were divided somewhat. There was two
sections of those. One brother had already migrated to down of the Ohio River,
which is 150 miles further northwest, and they were very definitely Yankees,
but the ones right there in the community I suppose they had more Southern sympathy than they had for the Northern. The next door neighbors was a Northern
soldier so-both ways.
Qs
Do you remember any stories about hiding runaway slaves?
As
No, I suppose that, evidently, not many went through that areao I think
that most of the slaves headed further East into-up Harper's Ferry, West Virginia.
Of course, that was Virginia until Civil War time<> West Virginia was cut off because what is now West Virginia wanted to go with the confederacy. That's really the reason the state of West Virginia was formed I guess, when you get basically down to it.
Q:
Your family migrated from Virginia?
A:
Yes, they migrated from Virginia. They came with the colonies from-well,
actually we don't know what ship the ancestors came over on or anything like
that, but they were with the Jamestown Settlement, but they might have been,
I don't know.
Qt
You had never been down to Norht Carolina until you came down after col-
lege?
As
I came down after finishing college and got a job.
Qj
What were the farming conditions like when you first came to this area
�10
30 years ago?
At
Well, most everyone depended on their farm for their income, whether it
was, whether they actually farmed or whether they did business with the fanners
such as the fertilizer dealers and the merchants. The biggest payroll of course
was Appalachian State University, as it still is. We had, the census gave us
around 2600 farms, and the income about l^g million, total sales during the year,
so you see, there wasn't really a lot of money floating around<, Part of it was
what we would now call "Subsistence farming", with making most everything that
you used at the farm, on the farm, and in the home. We didn't buy a lot. I
guess the grocery stores would say we didn't buy anything much,
Q:
What portion of the farm products were marketed?
AJ
We were producing at that time quite a number of vegetables. In I9k3>
when I came here-the second World War in progress-we were growing cabbage, snap
beans. Irish potatoes for sale. We were also "growing some beef cattle, a large
number of farmers kept sheep and sold sheep and lambs. Then there were poultry
and eggs on a good many farms at that time. So, we sold vegetables, livestock,
livestock products, and eggs, poultry.
Qt
Did the family use most of what they produced?
Aj
Depending on the size of the farm. The small farmers used a higher pro-
portion of what he produced-total poduetions-thah the larger farmers. Of course,
the larger farmers sold quite a volume of their produce. I would say of the
amount produced was actually sodl or more, and livestock, it would be 9/10 I
expect, because they would produce enough, where 1/10 of what they produced
would supply their needs.
Q:
How did you define1 "subsistence" then?
A:
Well, what we mean by subsistnece was what that most of them raised all
that they needed on the farm, and then sold the surplus.
Q:
Were there outside laborers that worked on the farm?
�n
A:
Usually neighbors. The small farmers would work on their own farm part
of the year, and then work for their neighbors part of the time.
Q:
And the neighbor would pay them cash?
AJ
Cash, or pay them sometimes in farm produce, swap labor with them sometimes.
There wasn't an awful lot of cash to change hands, but some of it did, of course.
Q:
What were your main markets—the main commodities produced?
As
The vegetables were sold through-at that time we had, well Goodnight Bro-
thers were operating at Hollar's Produce, At time to time other large farmers
would have some produce. As trucks,- began to come in, we got more and more
of the outside truckers coming in buying a truckload of cabbage, a truckload
of beans. The biggest bean market in the world at that time was at Mountain
City, Tennessee. We had a bean market there. We had a small bean auction market
here in Boone for a while, and there's also one in West Jefferson. Some of the
towns south and east of here, such as Charlotte, and Gastonia, were good markets
for farm products. Farmers began to get pick-up trucks. They would load a pickup, or maybe a larger truck, with cabbafe, beans, apples-take off down there for
2 or 3 days and sell a load* Potatoes were a Mg item. We could store potatoes
all winter.
Q:
What did the Goodnight Brothers and the Hollars do?
A:
They shipped their produce by the truckload, to the terminal markets—Atlanta
Charlott$, and up the Eastern Seaboard-Washington, New York. I've even heard of
sine if tgen giubg as far as Boston. Some went to Louisiana. That used to be a
pretty big market for cabbage in the late summer, so they distributed wherever
they could find a marketo
Q:
Did they use the railroads at all the ship the produce?
A:
Some. But, most of them went by truck* They could load up in Boone and be
in Washington, D.C. the next day. The railroad was a little slower. A good many
�12
of the livestock, cattle and sheep, were shipped by train to the processing
plants in New York City, Baltimore, Maryland. Usually our produce would head
East and North, because you could get it from the West in to New York a little
later in the season0 • We were a little bit earlier than some of the northern
markets•
Q:
Ai
Were there any local trucking companies?
There were some local trucks. Sometimes you would find people that would
gather up a load and take it to these markets themselves. Some fortunes were
made that way, and some were lost too, from what I hear. A rather risky business.
Q: Do you know the names of any of the people who did that?
A: Well, the Critcher brothers, Fred Critcher and his f?mily, were one of the
ones that I remember making a pretty big success of it. They are still in the
business.
Then the Hollars family was into it. Of course, the Goodnights,
that's the way they started,, They started with, I think, if I remember tales
I've heard. They started with just a wagon and horses, hauling cabbage and
potatoes to the East or Southeast, selling them that way.
It grew into a very
successful business. The Cooks, McNeils, Browns, you could just about name
any family.':and you would find somebody that's done a little bit of that trucking trying to get produce to the market.
Q: Were there any particularly larger farmers when you first came here?
A: Well, yes, there were some large farms. Most of the large farms were
livestock because they could handle livestock with less labor than the vegetable farm. That's, in what we would call large fawns, there really was not
any. I expect the largest would be 1 0 - 0 acres with £0-68 acres cultivation
|050
which would be what we would call a large farm, which wouldn't be anything,
today we wouldn't call it large,, But, the average farm in Watauga County
�13
has always been somewhere from £0-60 acres, wiich would indicate that there's
quite a number of 10-20 acre farms, some were UOO-5QO acres.
Q: Who were the larger farm owners?
As
Well, one of the larger ones that I remember was the Dr» Peary farm
which more recently is owned by Floyd Ayers, who is now deceased,and over on
Highway 10$. Then we had farms over in Valle Crucis, the Tom Beard farm,
Will Mast farm, the Taylor farm, Don Shall farm, those were fairly large farmsi
Down at Brownwood on the Ashe County line, we had the Coopers, Albert Cooper
farm, it was a fairly large farm. And down at Deep Gap, old man Moretz had
all that land there in the gap, which was a pretty large farm. Of course, a
few of them stiU have farms. The Murray Brown farm, he was a pretty young
man at the time, he had a little over 100-150 acres, rapidly accumulating more,
The Neil Blair farm, where the golf course is now, was considered a pretty
large farm.
ASTC Dairy Farm was considered a fairly large farm.
Q: So a lot of this area that we've seen developed into other things is
where the prime farm land used to be?
At
That's right. The development has taken quite a large part of the better
farm. The Neil Blair farm was a big farm. Where the Hound Ears development
is was the Claude Shore's farm. That was not an exceptionally large,farm,
but it was good farm land. Where Boone now sits, wJiere all this shopping
development on the Blowing Rock Road is, see that was farm land. That belonged to the Farthings-mostly, Grady Farthing's brothers, Ed, Zeb, and Don.
Q: How do you feel when you see the shopping centers and bulldozers where
your best farms used to be?
Aj Well, I have mixed fellings on that. A lot of the people are making an
easier living, at least part-time, in industry, than they were able to make
on the farm with the assets that we had for farming.
So, that has helped.
But, also I hate to see the bulldozers tearing up our land. I think it could
�be done without as much destruction as has been for the last few years, but
they say it's progress, so we'll go along with it to a certain extent. We'll
do all we can to try to keep them from tearing up all the beauty0 We still
think that the farmers are the backbone of Watauga §ounty, that is as far as
the attraction for tourists» There's nothing more attrac tive in our reports
that we get, one of the things that they like about Watauga County is these
well-kept farmsteads and nice cattle on the hill, tilings like that. So, I'm
still a farmer, I believe in farming.
Qs
Do you think that it will be possible to continue with out well-kept
farms and cattle on the hillside?
A: I'm hoping it willo I know we'll have difficulties and we're going to
have problems. But, I think we'll be able to maintain quite a bit of that,
and may see some of it coming backo We've cleared some land when we're trying
to farm extensively that I know would be better off in forests. So, I'd like
to see some of these steeper, rougher places go back to forest production,
which I think would add to the beauty of the area. I hope that we'll be
able to keep enough of our rolling land, sloping land, bottom land, to produce feed for livestock, support our operation, and I believe we will.
Q: Were you involved in the timber growing business, or was most of the limber sold before you came here?
As Most of the timber was sold before I came to the country. We have had
the part in getting quite a number of seedlings set, pine seedlings, poplar
seedlings, and in some cases walnut seedlings, locust..
T e've
also been in-
volved in sane timber stand improvement work, but most of that timber was cut
out before we came or was being cut out during WWII, pretty extensively at
that time. So, we didn't get in on too much. We worked with the land owners
where we could„
�Q:
How did WW II change farming, or change the acea?
As
Well, when WW II was over, the market for Vegetables dropped off, and our
farmets went to other types of production. Many of the boys who had been in
WW II were not satisfied with what they could produce and income they could
get on the farm, so they went seeking other employment. It was a period of
change--the automobile came in strong*, prosperity seemed to increase and the
young people became more restless. Of course, the rural prpulation was too
great for the land to support all of them, so they began to spread out.
Qs
Would you say this was when the major change took place?
As
I think it is, yes.
Qs
Right at the end of the war?
As
Yes, just in the years right after the end of the war. Actually, I expect,
when we begun to get industry in Watauga County, most of it occured in the 'Jo's
which was a period not too lone after the war. We begun to take stock of what
we had, and work with industry to get some payrolls in the county. So, we were
instrumental in studying the situation and getting several facts before the
people. Then we worked with the Chamber of Commerce and others to bring in some
industry. I tell some of them we might have overdone it.
Q!
Were you personally involved in helping to get industry in?
A:
Yes, we were. We were one of the counties designated as rural development
county, and in 1956 one of three in N. C. An extensive study was made of the
situation and the assets and possibilities in Watauga County. We got quite a
lot of help from the state, notable N. C, State University. We were pretty
active in that,
Q:
Going back for a minute, during the war, was there a decrease in farming
because the men were away?
As
Well, we have reduced the land that is being used for agriculture. I think
�16
according to the US Census, only about % of Watauga County is now used for
agricultural purposes. Most of the agriculture has shifted from a row-crop
vegetable production to more of a livestock economu with grass covering the
hillfi, and some of the roughland going back to trees. The income from the farm
has increased from about $1.5 million sales back in 191*5 to approximately $k.£
million at the present time, and the large part of the people that live on the
farm, one or more members are now partly employed or full-time employed in
industry.
So, we would say that our area is more of a part-time fanning area
at the present than it was back in those days.
Q:
What about the crops that are grown? Has there been any change?
A:
The crops grown now are mostly the U-H crops, grass crops, livestock feed
crops. We've gotten away from the vegetables, and the crops that require too
much labor—what we call child labor. There's not as many people on the farm,
the farm families are not as large, they don't have a large number of children
growing up to help pick beans and cabbage and things like that, so we're getting
away from that type of farming.
Qj
Are more outside laborers employed?
A:
No, most of the farming is done by the fanner and his family,, There's
not too many outside laborers employed by the farm. There is some, but not
as much as there was a few years ago.
Q:
What about the markets?
A:
Well, the market—transportation has come in with the better roads and
trucks, so you can get rid of most any crop you can produce. On the other hand,
the transportation through the U. S, , so that crops producedlin one area, can
be qu±6kly transported to another area where they're used. So, that's maybe
reduced the demand for the corps we produce in other areas with machinery, and
the price has become more equalized and not as profitable for us.
�1?
Q: Do you sell the grain crops outside of this area?
A: No, ma'am, most of the grain crops are now fed to Itestock in the area, and
we're even importing some grain from other areas, because it's easier to buy
corn produced at the foot of the mountain than it is to grow it here, sometimes
more economical. But, we grow our hay crops and our silage crops,
Q: What is a silage crop?
A: That's corn that is put in these horizontal silos and used for livestock
feed during the winter months, usually corn,
Qi Since cattle is one of the major animals raised, how do you feel about the
meat controversy?
As We do not agree with the housewife when she says she's paying too much for
meat. If she had to get out here and produce it, I think she'd change her mind.
We think food is still a bargain. The U.S. housewife is only spending around
17$ of their income for food. Most countries, they're spending quite a bit more,
so the farmer, as yet, is not getting his fair share. I think the increase in
price, the increase has come about largely because of increase in the cost of
labor, transportation, marketing, and so on.
Qt Are there any particularly good years that you can remember, or one best
year or best period, for farming in the area?
At No, I don't remember any particularly good years that, there was a time long
about '50 or '51 when livestock prices were quite a bit higher than they had been
before, that were considered good years for livestock producers. Every so often
you'd have a good year for vegetable producers0 Cabbage would bring a good price,
but I don't recall which years those might be.
Q: What about a worst year or years?
A: The worst years were the years around 'f&-'55, in there, when we had unreasonably dry weather for our area, and our vegetable crops were short, so we ran
short all the way through« Those were pretty hard years for us. We can get
�19
them anytime again, too.
Q:
Do you know how the 'ijO's flood affected the soil, and therefore, the
farming?
A:
Only from hear-say. There were still signs of the flood on these mountains
when I came in 'ii3. Many of the little fertile valleys were covered with logs,
ricks, and debris taken out of cultivation. We could see what they called "burst
outs" on the sides of the mountains, where it looked like big patches of the mountain slipped off and slid down the valley. It was evidently, a scary time of destruction at that time.
Qr
Was that land ever recovered?
A:
A lot of it is gradually being recovered, but there's some of it that has not.
Some of it was just graved beds. The highway department has gone into several places and scooped up the gravel and used it for highway construction, and things
like that.
I'd say 1S% of it has been recov ered, but farmers have been reluctant
to plow up those bottoms and make them more vulnerable to erosion, in case we do
have high water. We tru to keep a high percentage of it in sod crops that won't
be—they can be washed away, but it takes more water to wash them away, and it's
n6t quite as vulnerable.
Q:
Have there been any floods or natural disasters since then that have affected
the terrain for farming?
A:
Not to any extent. Some of the river bottoms have flooded a little bit, but
we've been remarkably free of disasters-natural disasters-such as excessive flooding or wind damage, tornado damage, anything like that.
Q:
Could you comment on the Watauga Sour Kraut Factory and impact on farming?
A:
The Watauga Krout Factory was here when I came. They have been processing
cabbage from 75-125 acres of land over the years. They were, I guess, one of the
first industries using farm products.
Sawmills used lumber, timber, but--and they
�have helped quite a number of farmers, probably 60-100 per year, with a small
income, no excessive income, but they've been a good substantial, stabilizing industry for our area.
Q:
When was that started, do you know?
As
I do not know, but I think it must have been just about after the first World
War, shortly afterwards sometime, but I do not know just when,
Qt
Do you know who started it?
At
I do not, I'm sorry.
Q:
Who runs it today?
A:
Mr. and Mrs**Bil Miller-William Miller-are the operators. Mr. Miller's father
operated, it for some time with the help of Dr. K. C. Perryk who I think furnished
part of the financing. So, I really don ft know just how they gained control of it>
or just what did happen. Maybe I should have been curious enough to try to find
out, but I did not.
Q:
But they are still as successful as ever, aren't they?
A?
I think so.
They—I don't think they make any great lot of moJiey out of it,
but they are making a living and they're supplying a market for cabbage, which is
a good thing for out there.
Q:
They buy from individual farmers, is that what they do?
A:
Yes.
Q:
How has—I'll ask you this, then I'll
let you rest. How has your job changed
over the years?
A:
My job, when I started, was working with individual farmers trying to help
them change their management practices, or their production practices, to produce
more and make more money for their farm. My job has been more in the last—well,
since the rural development program in the mid 1950's, has been to try ot help the
people help themselves, whether it be in agriculture or whether it be funding employ-
�ment or starting some kind of small business that would help them with better incomes or make a better living0 It's evolved from a help the people in a limited
way with agriculture to helping them in any way that we can to make—to give them
a better living whether it means more money or just more pleasure from what they
are doing.*
Qs
What sort of assistance has the United States government given to these kind
of programs to help people?
As
Of course, part of the salary of the country extension agents, home agents,
Ij-H agents, is appropriated by the Congrss and that comes through the North Carolina University which is supplemented with some money from the—appropriated by
the state and them that is in turn supplemented by some county money topay personbel and to do research work to try to increase the income or the know-how of farmers c, You see, back thirty years ago, we were producing thirty to thirty-five bushels of corn per acre when the hybrid corn was devleoped and now we're not satisfied
if they don't ge over a hundred. So there's been quite a lot of work from the federal government, the U, S, Department of Agriculture, plant breeding, animal breeding
and soil testing, fertilization, chemicals can be used to control pests, those kind
of things. The research, as far as direct supplement ot farmers, unless you would
call the fertilizer that came through the agriculture stabilization program as a
supplement, why the department has not given farmers the handout or anything like
that. They did give them some money to encourage conservation, and that's one
thing that helped us to get away from plowing up too much of these hill land, those
kind of things.
Q:
Well, I have read a lot about how universities like North Carolina State, the
land grant colleges have poured millions of dollars into developing machinery that
really puts the samll farmer out of business and I've been concerned about that.
I wondered how much they've done that actually helped the small farmer.
�22
Q:
Well, unfortunately I think there's too much truth in the statement that they
have developed machinery and technology that the large farmer or the one that is
able to control the acreage or rent their own acres-a little more benefit to them
than it has been to the small farmer, so I'd say there's more truth than we'd like
to talk about that.
Qj
What can the small farmer do to compete then?
Aj
Well, there are certain crops that the small farmer can produce more econom-
ical, that require a lot 6f hand labor and he can increase his income if he's
willing to maybe work a little bit harder. We think this small fruit crop is one
reason we're into the strawberry plant businesso That's an opportunity. We know
that, with proper care, that a farmer could can have a labor income of from $2f>00$3000 from an acre of strawberries and maybe blueberries, take longer to get them
established, but that may increase to that amount or even more so then with such
crops as trellised tomatoes that require a large amount of labor, at a high income
per acre, other fruits, the production of fancy vegetables, things like that. There's
Opportunities there I think and North Carolina State University has worked for those
type of people quite a little bit. Maybe they can do more, but it's a—I don't
think we've left them our entirely and now at the present time we've got--we're
working three, what we call nutrition aids that are working with'the low income
farm families on a-not only producing vegetables, fruits, and a family food supply,
but on usine what they buy from the stores preparing balanced meals and health
care.
Q:
What is the U. S. Government doing to help the small subsistnece family far-
,mer?
Ai:
Outside of the educational assistance we can give them with extension programs
through the home economics and different kinds of sids, I don't know that the Department of Agriculture is doing a lot for the small subsistence farmer. They are
�more concerned with getting the farmer and his family educated so they can take
advantage of employment opportunities. It seems to me that they might be encouraging part-time farmers more that they are full-time farmers on these small farms.
And perhaps, outside of the few speciality crops, especially vegetables, and small
food projects* Why, if the farmer doesn't want to do a pretty good job of management and take quite a bit of pains, he might make more money on the job. But I
think at the same time, and I think our Department of Agriculture is encouraging,
the use of the resources that they have, such as the land for the production of
these high-income-per-acre crops* We are not willing to admit that the samll farmer is completely out.
He may have to do a little bit better job of management,
and have to get his business established, spend a little more money to get started
then he used to, but he can stiU. make a pretty good go of it,
Q:
Is money available to help you get started?
A:
Money is available usually through the Farmers Home Administration and usually
some other sources to help him get started. He does need to work out a pretty good
farm plan and know what he wants to do, and how he wants to do it.
Q:
And that's where you would come in?
A: Yes.
Q:
Do you see any hope in cooperatives or farmer's associations to kind of band
together to compete with the very large farmers?
As
If cooperatives—if there is a place—if they have a specific purpose and know
what they're after, and have a pretty good plan to go after that particular point,
then a cooperative will work. There's been too much emphasis place on cooperatives
just because they're called cooperatives. Farmers get together and they don't know
what they want* They don't plan far enoueh ahead, so I'm not too strong on just
fanning a cooperative just to say we have one. Let's have a purpose and have a
real need for it.
I think the Blue Ridge F.lectric Membership Cooperative-the Elec-
�trie Co-op, the teltphone co-op, have done wonderful-have been wonderful, and they
are doing a good job.
There is a need for it-there's a purpose, and they had it
well planned. If you talk about a little co-op such as a transportation eo-op,
which I know of, it wasn't planned well enough, and the people were not willing
to use it, so those types of things I think we need to be care ful what we get
into.
Q:
What about a cooperative or association to pool and sell produce or livestock?
As
If the visiting markets are not doing what they should then a co-op can step
in and do the job, but your management in a co-op needs to be just as good as in
a business. Sometimes that's hard to1get. We need to study carefully.
Co-ops
are not a cure for everything.
Q:
Are there any in this area?
A:
As I mentioned, the telephone and the electric co-ops are the better ones that
are going strong.
Q:
I'm thinking of fanners.
A:
Well, of course the PCX is a co-op—it's a large one.
Qi
Are there any that market farm products?
A:
Not that I can think of right off hand. But there-is , over in some of the
western counties, there's a tomato marketing co-op, and apple marketing co-op in
Mitchel County* We have not had a co-op here to market vegetableso I think a lot
of that will depend on if you have good, conscientious markets-private enterprise
markets-then the farmers will go along with that before they'll put their own money
in and try to form one of their own. I think they're wise to do that, because its
hard to hire-you just can't hire the type of management that it takes sometimes.
Q:
What about a farmer's market?
A:
Well, we have-now, let me go back a little bit. Our livestock market is-the
building and facilities-is supplied by an association which is leased to private
operators, so we have gone that far, so maybe I better back up a little bit on
�what I said awhile ago. We do have a. livestock association that has supplied the
facilities, which is in turn leased to private operators. Those types of thingsI think the situation has to be evaluated as it develops.
You can't just make
a general statement, say every place should-the producers should land together to
get facilities and them lease it to private operators* Mayb;e they should get the
facilities and msybe operate it themselves, and maybe a private operator who will
bet or funish the capital themselves can do it. So, each situation needs to be
evaluated in itself.
Qx
Has there ever been an open-air market, where the fanners could bring in thfeir
produce?
At
When we had our bean market, there was-you might call that a kind of open-air
market. There's been little small curb markets, but there's never been what you
referred to as an open-sir market, as far as I know, in Boone, as there is in the
larger towns. So, you've got to have buying power before those type of things will
succeed. I don't believe that you have enough buying power around Boone to operate
a very large market. Little private roadside markets, will do a good job. I don't
believe we've got enough buying power to operate a big market*
Q:
Do you know if any of the farmers take their produce to Winston-Salem or other
cities?
A:
Very few. Occasionally you'll get them taken further away the Columbia Veg-
etable Market, Columbia, S. C. we well a few loads down there, but it's sporadic.
A farmer has a surplus and he don't think he's getting the market price satisfied,
then he'll take a load, but it's not a good sustem.
QJ
Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think would be helpful
for us to know?
A:
I believe you've pretty well covered the agricultural situation. I don't
know, I hope I've given you the facts. Ifve given you my opinion, so maybe you
�can compare it to someone elst, and them form your opinion.
Q:
Thank you, Mr. Tuckwillere
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-25
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with L.E. Tuckwiller, April 10, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
L.E. Tuckwiller was born September 16, 1908 in West Virginia. He graduated from Berea College in 1934 and was the Watauga County extension agent for the past 30 years.
Mr. Tuckwiller talks mostly about his career as an extension agent throughout the interview. He explains his academic career and what lead him to the job. Mr. Tuckwiller was born and raised in West Virginia, so he describes the history of that area and compares the land to Boone. He also talks about his childhood on the farm and stories he heard of the Native Americans and the Civil War. For a large portion of the interview, Mr. Tuckwiller talks about farming in Boone and how he has worked with farmers. He also discusses the loss of farming land to development.
Creator
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Lamm, Joy
Tuckwiller, LE
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
4/10/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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25 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape57-58_LETuckwiller_1973_04_10M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Boone, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--West Virginia--20th century
West Virginia--Social life and customs--20th century
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Mountain life--West Virginia--History--20th century--Anecdotes
Berea College
1940 flood
Appalachian State University
Atlanta
Berea College
Blue Ridge Electric Membership Cooperative
Brasstown
Cherokee County N.C.
Civil War
Clay County N.C.
Columbia Vegetable Market
Cooperative Feed Store
country extension
Department of Agriculture
Farmer's Cooperative
Farmers Home Administration
farming
Fort Donneley
Georgia
Goodnight Brothers
Great Depression
Greenberry County
Hollar's Produce
L.E. Tuckwiller
livestock
Mountain City
Mountain Valley Cooperative
Native Americans
North Carolina
North Carolina State University
sawmill
subsistence farming
superstitions
Tennessee
Watauga County N.C.
Watauga Kraut Factory
West Virginia
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/f3905df2ba703c574ba8227640ecbad0.pdf
444744f7916455869455aa54a4b58318
PDF Text
Text
AOHP #73
Page 1
This is an interview with Mrs. Elizabeth Hartley^ and
her son, William, by Karen Weaver for the Appalachian Oral
History Project in Triplett on June 11, 1973.
(in this transcript Mr. Hartley and "son" are the same person)
Q:
First I'd like for you to give me your name and age
please.
A:
Lizzie Hartley, Elizabeth Hartley and I'm 73.
Q:
Where were you born?
A:
ABout
Q:
Did it have a name?
a mile over up this holler.
Did it have a certain name for the
area?
A:
Arnold's Branch.
Q:
Arnold's Branch?
A:
Yeah, Arnold's Branch.
Q:
How many children were in your family?
A:
Seven.
Q:
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
A:
I had four sisters and two brothers.
Q:
What did your father do for an occupation?
A:
He farmed and worked the sawmill.
I've never heard of that.
�Q:
The sawmill?
Was it around this area?
A:
Yeah,rail around this area.
Q:
Did your mother-was your mother just a housewife?
A:
Yeah, my father was a carpenter.
Q:
Was he?
A:
Built houses.
Q:
So you had a farm?
A:
Yeah, yeah we had a farm.
Q:
Did the children have to help with the work around the farm?
A:
Yeah, the children helped with the work.
Q:
What did you have to do?
A:
Oh, we hoed corn, made a garden, and all such things as that,
What did he make?
Building, he worked at a carpenter's trade.
Is that where you get most of your food from?
raised cattle, chickens and hogs.
Q:
Was it hard work?
A:
Yeah, it was hard work.
Q:
How long did you have to work everyday?
A:
'Bout twelve hours every day.
People worked form sixvo1clock
till six o'clock for 60£ a day0
�Q:
So you rteally felt like you'd earned that, didif'^. you?
A:
Yeah and most everybody lived in a one roomed house.
Q:
The vtiole family?
A:
Yeah, amd we were raised right here in a little ol' log cabin
with-it had three little rooms.
One big one and two little ones.
There wasn't hardly anybody that even had a stove to cook on.
They cooked on fire.
Q:
You had to cook all your food on fire?
A:
Yes.
There wasn't anybody, only just- I bet there wasn't half
a doxon in our community that owned cookstoves.
Q:
Really?
Who were some of the families that had stoves?
A:
My grandmother had one and Mary Carroll had one.
That's the only
two I know of in the whole community at that time.
Q:
I bet living in a small house, did you have alot of fights with
your brothers and sisters?
A:
No, no.
I's the oldest girl in a family of seven and I took care
of the other young'uns.
Q:
Oh, so that's mainly what you had to do?
A:
Yeah.
�Q:
Did your brothers have to help around the house with the housework?
A:
No, they didn't do no housework.
Q:
They just farmed.
A:
Yeah and fixed wood and things like that.
Q:
Have you had any jobs?
A:
Nol
Q:
lfc>u just lived around here on the farm all
A:
Yeah, and people used to gather all kinds of herbs and dig roots
your life?
and all for a livin1.
Q:
Did you all used to do that?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
How much would you make?
A:
Oh you couldn,'t make nothing hardly.
You could a lots a kinds
of roots you could dig 'em and dry them and sell 'em for 2$ a
pound, and people would dry fruit and sell it for 2C a pound,
corn 50£ a bushel and coffee IOC a pound and sugar about 4C a
pound, cloth about If a yard.
Q:
Really?
Some of that cloth now is two and three dollars a yardl
�A:
Yeah.
Q:
What kind of roots and gerbs did you gather?
A:
There way May Apple, Blood Root, Black Cohosh, Blue and Stone
Root, and Quill Root.
Q:
Quill Weed?
A:
Quil Weed, yeah.
Hydrangeas, something that is on the root
list, hydrangeas was then.
Gather pine tips to make Christmas
roping and skin white pine bark.
Q:
What were some of these used for?
A:
Oh, it was all used for medicine.
Q:
Can you still sell them today?
A:
Oh, yeah.
It was 2C a pound.
(Mrs. Greer's neighbor) Beadwood leaves are 15C
a pound green now, 30C for dry.
Q?
What are they used for?
A:
Medicine
Q:
Any particular type of medicine?
A:
(Mrs. Greer) No, don't know what kind.
(Mrs. Hartley)
It's
Oxblood that they use for heart medicine, they sell it up here
at Boone, that medicine for heart trouble made o : of oxblood.
u|
It had a little purple bloom on it.
Star root and Gensang and
�lady's slipper, wild cherry bark, "sassyfat" root bark, that's a
tree.
Q:
What is lady's slipper used for, do you know?
A:
Some kind of medicine, I don't know what.
And Beth Root and
Indian Turnip, sprigmint and angelico.
Q:
I've heard some of these, but some I've never heard of before.
Like I have heard of ginsang and things like that.
They pay
a pretty good price for tinat, don't they?
A:
Dollar an ounce.
(Mrs. Greer)
get hardly nothing.
(son)
Pepper drinks that you but.
Q:
A:
It wasn't back then, you didn't
You take now, you know these Dr.
That's wild cherry flavor.
It is?
Yeah and this here root beer drinks that you buy?
That's sassafras
flavor.
Q:
It is?
I didn't know that.
So they use some of these herbs
for those drinks too?v>
A:
(Son) I think so.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Sassafras and you never see
no drink made with Beadwood do you?
Q:
Is that a herb or root or something?
A:
A little branch.
(Mrs. Greer) just pull the leaves off.
That's
�what we's telling you was 15C a pound, green now.
we are talking about spicewood..
(Mrs. Hartley) Mo,
Them there are beadwood leaves, they
are called witch hazel on the list.
Q:
Yeah, I have heard of that.
Did your family used to use any of
these for medicine, like when you could'nt get hold of a doctor?
A:
Oh, yeah.
Make tea out of them and catnip, catnip tea.
TMey
used to make catnip tea and boneset and lemon balm and another
kind we gathered, bugle weed, and wild horse mint.
What people
hepatitis 'now, wild cherry- tea from wild cherry bark will
cure that in two or -three days.
(Mrs. Greer)-
Lord a mercy, yeah.
I took my, one of my young'uns had it one time, had that for I
don't know how long and I took her to the doctor time after time
and she didn't get no better, just laid there like she's dead
or something.
Little girl came up and she was-well her and
Mizelle was A'sout the same age I reckon and she said, "I had that
stuff and Momma made me some wild cherry bark tea," and said,
"It cured me".
So I said wouldn't j^t, no harm in trying.
ANd
I went down here and got me some and fixed her some and in three
days she's well.
Q:
Did you tell the doctor what you had done?
A:
No, they wouldn^tbelieve you.
it.
He'd say some of his medicine done
�8
Q:
Wild cherry bark, is that what it is?
A:
Yeah (Mrs. Hartley)'
and Balm of Gilead buds you pick them.
I picked eleven pounds one time and took them to Boone and
got eleven dollars for it.
Q:
Really?
Do they fix. them in town or do they send them off
somewhere?
A:
They ship them.
Q:
Did you mother or grandmother used to have any home remedies,
like for Wtan4lvLkids were sick?
A:
Oh yeah, Catnip tea and wild cherry tea, boneset.
If I had to
die or drink boneset , I'd have to die because I couldn't swallow
that.
Q:
A:
That is a bitter thing, oh nasty.
(Mrs. Greer) Corn silk tea's
good for your kidney's if you can get it ciown, but getting it
down.
(Son)
Have you ever tasted any Quinine?
Q:
I have heard of it, but I have never tasted of it I don't think.
A:
(Mrs. Greer)
Well they used to give us quinine when we was little
for a high fever.
Q:
Really?
Did it cut it down?
�A:
Yeah, but it would run you crazy.
(Mrs. Hartley)
was assifidity, you buy it at the drugstore.
That there
You can put that
in a- put that in some kind ofaicokol, it is awful good medicine
for your stomach.
(Mrs. Greer) Yeah, for babies for the cholic.
(Mrs. Hartley) Now you can tell her what you make.
Q:
(To Sofl) What do you make?
A:
Well, few dancing dolls,-and churns, buckets, and lamps.
Things
of that nature.
Q:
How did you get started in doing these things?
Making these
things.
A:
Making them?
Q:
How did you get started making them?
A:
How did I get started?
Q:
Why did you get started making them?
A:
I picked it up myself.
Q:
You just wanted to start making them?
A:
Yeah, well in fact I think I must have been gifted to work
like that because that is what I like.
Q:
You sell these to craft shops?
�10
A:
Yeah to different places.
There's not alot to be made at it
because there is to many in it. Ocaasionally I build a little
machinery once in a while for woodwork as the drill, lathes,
grip saws, ^B^rfLuS. a"d things like that.
Q:
What kind of instruments do you have, do you own that you play?
A:
I have three right now, two guitars and a harmonica.
Q:
You have a dulcimer, don't you?
A:
(Mrs. Greer)
Yeah, he's gonna build him one.
one to build him one.
(Mr. Hartley))
not mine, I borrowed ri.t.
He borrowed that
The dulcimer , that's
I got it and I'm gonna get the pattern
off of it to build one for myself.
Q:
Oh, how long do you think it'll take to build one?
A:
Weil, now I wouldn't have the least idea, because I ha^re never
built one of those.
Q:
Well that makes sense.
A:
Well, no, I just work around home.
craft work.
Do you have a certain job you work at?
I do garden work, I do some
Well, occasionally I'll work away from home <X livrl^j
help somebody finish a house of something like that, but not very
often.
Q:
Oh, so you just stay around home and work mainly and carve all this
�11
stuff?
A:
Well, I have been playing the guitar and other instruments
like that.
I reckon I been where I could play an organ ever
since I coiald walk because they was an organ in the home when
I was born wasn't there?
Q:
Who played it?
A:
The whole family.
Q:
Where did you get it?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley)
(Mrs. Hartley) Yeah.
Roebuck then.
Ordered it fro'm Roebuck, Sears.
(Mr. Hartley)
I am gonna show you.
It was Sears
I have something in a few minutes
It is a 1908 Sears catalog.
Q:
Really?
Is it an original one?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) Yeah.
Q:
Is it one that you all had?
A:
(Mr. Hartley) I found it advertland and I bought it.
In a few
minutes I'll get that out and we will go through it.
Q:
Okay.
What can you remember about the Depression?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley)
Well, I don't remember anything unusual that happened,
Alot of people suffered for something to live on and you would
see people- we lived in Tennessee part of the time at that time
and you would see whole wagon trains going down there and stop
�12
everywhere a wanting potatoes or something to live on.
We made
it pretty good through the Depression, but a lot of people suffered.
Q:
So it didn't affect you all as far as food?
A:
No, as far as food was concerned it didn't bother us.
Q:
Did any of the children leave home during the Depression to
find work?
A:
No.
Through the last Depression, now we went through two- one
±>out 1916 and one about 1930 and the first on I believe was the
worse than the last one.
We skinned pine bark and gathered
stuff and bought food we had to have and o£ course we always
put up a lot of food at home.
(Mr. Hartley) Well the way it
was, I remember just a little bit about it because I was very
young, but the pBople that owned right much property and owned
their own home where they could farm it, they made fairly wellthey growed allftheir own foor, but the people that rented or
depended on jobs- they suffered.
Q:
Were neighbors helpful to each other during this time?
Did
they help each other out a lot during the depression?
A:
Oh yes.
Some did- them that had anything divided with them that
didn't.
(Mr. Hartley)
Well it was about the same way then I
think it is now, there as some people that wouldn't work regardless,
(Mrs. Hartley) and we helped Virgil folks down here out.
had a big family.
They
�13
They didn't have - they owned their own home, but they didn't make
much.
We helped them out a lot.
We always kept hogs , we killed
hogs every fall, had plenty of meat, kept cows and had plenty of milk
and butter and things like that.
And then we growed a lot of corn
and potatoes and beans and all kinds of stuff like that.
Q:
What about -this first depression?
in 1916.
A:
I had never heard about it-
What can you remember about it?
I don't remember to much about that.
remember that at all can you Vear?
But these people- you can't
It was hitting pretty hard on
them, at that time, them that didn't have nothing to live on.
And we gathered pine bark and all such things as that in order
to buy the the things you can't raise like sugar and coffee,
salt and stuff like that.
(Mr. Hartley)
Made no difference
what you took to the store when they ran out of herbs at regular
how much, you never got no money for it.
If you get enough you
get it all up in groceries or whatever you needed.
They wrote
out what they called a due bill.
Q:
A what?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) A due bill.
not a penny.
Wouldn't never give you no money,
People couldn't hardly get enough money to pay
their taxes at all.
Q:
What did they do when they couldn't pay their taxes?
A:
They just let them go until they could pay them.
�14
Q:
Just let it pile up kind of?
A:
Yeah, our tax never did.
We never did have our property advertised
for tax, but the last paper we got there's two whole pages people's
land advertised for tax.
Q:
They advertised it for sell for their tax.
A:
So they could pay their tax they were gonna sell their li'.nd—
A:
Mo they had to pay it with that.
Now a lot of people owns enough
that they pay their tax and never miss it, but they don't want to
you see.
(Mr. Hartley) What's the matter with times now they're
taxing people so high and they're getting sick of it.
(Mrs. Hartley)
They will tax them so high that they CQiA't pay it hardly.
Q:
You said that your father had a farm.
Did he ever take any of
his products into towns to sell?
A:
No not much, well they used to.
Used to take a yoke of oxsns and
a load of Irish potatoes to Lenoir.
Take them about three days to
go «Iown there and back and they would take them a load of Irish
potatoes down there to town and sell them and bring back a load of
flour.
Q:
How would he get it?
Would he get his flour like in
A:
Iibags just like it's bought now, cloth bags.
back a thousand ppund6 at one tirae.
I have seen him bring
�15
Q:
A thousand?
How long would it take you all to run through a
thousand pounds of flour?
A:
Oh, we didn't use it all.
He let other people have alot of it.
I would ruin before we could use a thousand pounds.
Q:
What else could he get besides flour?
When he took his produce
in what else could he bring hack?
A:
Well he never did bring anything , but flour.
Q:
Is that all?
A: .Yeah.
You see they had a little grocery store round here just
below the church and there's one down on the creek and you could
get all things like that, well we could have got flour, but I
remember Wivius_ 4iu/ju. wasn't no flour in the stores, nor no meal either,
Q:
Why not?
A:
They just didn't sell it then.
the flour mills to but flour.
They'd have to go to Lenoir to the
(Mr. Hartley) We raised wheat, lot
of wheat, had to take it to the mill and have it ground.
Q:
Did you have a lot of wheat?
A:
No, not too much.
Q:
Just enough to live off of?
A:
Yeah, we raised wheat and rye, cut it by hand.
�16
Cut it with an old-fashioned cradle.
I bet you've never seen one
one of them.
Q:
A:
I don't know whether I have or not.
Oh they had a blade that long and then a little bitty fingers
on it about- they's little bigger round than your finger and I
guess they was about 40 inches long.
You'd just take that
cradle, swing it around, get you a bundle and just pour it off
of it.
You'd get about a bundle ever lick.
and rye both.
I've bound wheat
Go along behind the cradle and tie it up in shocks
and let it dry and then stack it or thrash it- stack it and then
the thrashing machine come and thrashed it, after there got to
be any thrashing machines.
A lot of people thrashed it out by
hand.
Q:
How would you do that?
A:
Fixed them a thrasing floor and spread that our on it and just
beat that grain out of it.
Q:
Oh, I ' l l bet that was hard work, wasn't
A:
Yeah.
it?
Then you could hold it up and the wind was blowing it'd
blow every bit of the chaff and trash out of it and you just had
clean wheat.
Q:
Isn't there something in the "Bible about the wind blowing the chaff
away.
�17
A:
Yeah
Q:
With all the work around the farm, when did you all find time
to play?
A:
When you were children?
Oh we didn't play none.
I was having to tend to the young'uns
till I got too big to play.
Q:
So you never got to play?
A:
No, No.
Q:
Did your brothers and sisters ever have any little games that
I didn't play none.
No.
they used to play?
A:
Oh yeah.
Played ball and once in a while I could get time to
jump rope or something.
(Mr. Hartly)
Q:
What would you do?
A:
Veil, we'd get out and maybe we'd go somewhere there's a big
a big whole of water- go swimming, or we'd get out in a good
cool place in the voods, set around and talk, find us a good
grapevine to swing on and played with that.
Then after we ' <'
learned to play music we'd get together some of us over the
weekends, get back where it was cool at.
Maybe a whole crowd
of us gather around, play sing, and dance.
sometimes keep as many as four cows
(Mrs. Hartley) We'd
and it's whole lot of trouble
to take care of youTmilk and keep it clean.
�18
Q:
How would you go about doing it?
A:
Well, you'd just milk the cows and then strained your milk and
diurn, make butter.
And we kept four or five old hogs all the
time and we'd feed the hogs milk and now give $1.;35 a gallon
for milk.
Q:
Did you have any kind of ice box or something to keep your milk
and stuff in?
A:
No, but it kept in the spring.
Kept a race below the spring
water ran in it all ihe time.
Q:
Oh, I bet it kept a lot colder, too, didn't it?
A:
Yeah, it kept it good and cold.
We had a spring box down here
when we lived here and we kept our milk in the water.
(Mr.
Hartley) The way we'd do-that we'd get some kind of good wide
board, make a box*
Make it waterproof.
Go right down below
the spring, we'd dig out a space in that branch there that
would fi>^ it so the water would stand about eight inches deep
in the box -and the W^W- hjojld, flow through that box all the time
and that's what kept the milk and butter cold.
Q:
Looks like after a while the water would start to rot the box
or something.
A:
Oh, it won't run under the water at all.
�19
Q:
What the box. wouldn't be under water?
A:
No, not under water, no.
Q:
How long did you have to use it like this before you got an icebox1
A:
I guess about my whole lifetime up until about thirty years ago.
Q:
Really?
A:
About thirty of thirty-five years old.
I guess I was thirty-five,
maybe forty before we ever got refrigerator.
our first refrigerator in '55.
five years old then.
(Mr. Hartley) We got
(Mrs. Hartley) Well,X was fifty-
(Mr. Hartley)) Well, you see we didn't get
ttie electricity until '54, then '55 we got the refrigerator.
(Mrs. Hartley) We didn't have no electricity till about '54.
Q:
Iteally?
A:
(Mr. Hartley)
They didn't nobody around down in here have no
electric til right up around '53.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Electric wasn't
down in here til that time.
Q:
Wasn't that hard not having electricity?
A:
Well you never was used to it, you wouldn't miss it, if you never
knew nothing about it. But now if you were to go back and didn't
have electricity it would be rough.
It would be bad now.
never was a car down here til about '22, 1922.
down here.
There
Not even one car
�20
Q;
Really?
Do you remember if that is that the first time you had
ever seen a car?
A:
Oh, no.
I had rode in a car before that time.
Q:
Wiat did you think about the car when you first saw it?
A:
Oh, I didn't think much about it.
First car I was ever in was
Charlie Watson's, when Roxy and Deity, my two sisters went to
Boone to lave their tonsils out.
and I rode in that car.
taken out.
That was nineteen and eighteen
I went with them to KuVt- their tonsils
But the first car that was ever down in here was
Seymore Carroll's car and they never was a car down in here til
'22.
Q:
Why not?
Just nobody down here had one?
At
No they couldn't get in and out of here.
There wasn't no road.
Couldn't get in and out, no there wasn't no road they could drive on.
Q:
So that's how you traveled before you had a car?
A:
Yeah, walked.
I walSed.
I could walk then.
First time I ever went to Boone
I was eighteen years old before I ever went to Boone.
Q:
How long would it take you getting there wilking?
A:
Oh not long, not too long, no.
Deerfield, that way.
Went up to Jake's mountain through
�21
And the first time I ever went to Boone I went up there to my mothers
sisters, walked up there.
We got back home about two o'clock.
Q:
Did you?
And that is the first time that you had been to Boone?
A:
First time I ever went to Boone I was eighteen years old.
Q:
What did you think about it?
What did it look like when you were
eighteen, what did the town look like?
A:
I don't remember. cThere wasn't too many buildings there.
I remember
Roby Blackburn's, went into see him, she-her son had died and
she went up there to, have , be appointed administrator.
Roby Blackburn up there and he asked me how old I was.
And I saw
I told him
I was ei ghteen and he said I was old enough to begin to court
just a little bit but I wasn't old enough to get married yet.
Now most all the buildings that was up there at town, I would say
fourteen years ago, was torn down.
Q:
Really?
What kind of buildings were up there?
A:
Well, there's some of them was dwellings and some of them was
for business purposes.
Now up at the place where I bought my
first Gibson guitar I ever owned was tore down.
the theater is at?
You know that parking lot just above it?
Right there.
Q:
You know where
That is where it was?
The store?
�22
A:
Yeah, it belonged to Richard Greene.
Q:
Richard Greene?
A:
Yeah he owned it.
He owned the store?
He had his music store in the basement of
his house.'
Q:
And it/s torn down?
A:
He is dead now.
Did he go into another business or what?
I have got the guitar now yet, the one I bought
from him.
Q:
The very first one you bought?
A:
No, it is just the third one but it is the first Gibson.
Q:
Oh, -that is the kind that my brother has.
I think it is a Gibson.
When'did you get your first guitar?
A:
The first guitar I got was in, the first one that I ever owned
I got it in 1936.
Q:
Who did you get it from?
A:
Sears and Roebuck.
Q:
Did you?
A:
Uh huh.
Do you still have it?
I wished I had kept it. A guitar like it today costs
$32.00 and that one costs four dollars and thirty-nine cents.
�23
Q:
What kind was it.
A:
Silverstone.
Q:
Prices have certainly changed.
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) You could get a good cow for $15.00 but you had
to work thirty days to get that $15.00.
Q:
WMit, just doing any kind of work?
A:
Any kind of woirk that you done you just got 50C a day and you had
to go to work at 6:00 of the morning and work till 6:00 of the
evening, for 50C.
Q:
That is the most you could make was 50£?
A:
50C, 50C a day, and people got so they could get a dollar a day
for work and they thought they's going to town.
Women, when they
worked they got 25C a day and the woman would do just as much a«
the man, they got, a man got, 50C a day and that wasn't fair.
Q:
What kind of jobidid the women have to do?
A:
Oh, they would get and work in the fields hoeing corn and working
out like tbat.
Q:
What about the men, what did they do?
A:
They would do things like that too.
Worked in timber and the saw-
�24
mill, cut timber and logs, and I worked in the sawmill. They wasn't
no way to get lumber out of here only haul it out with,* team.
Couldn't
get in here with a truck.
Q:
Either oxen or horses?
A:
Oxens or horses.
Q:
Didn't you say that your father worked wi-fk the sawmill?
A:
Yes
Q:
Would he just cut up the lumber?
A:
He usually logged.
Q:
Logged?
A:
Pull logs into the sawmill out of the mountains.
What would he do, what do you mean by logging?
He'd pull them
with teams and he done a lot of carpenter work, too.
(Mr. Hartley)
He helped build every house that was built in the neighborhood,
until he died.
Q:
He was probably a pretty \\&rd worker then, pulling all that stuff.
A:
Yeah
Q:
How long has it been since you have made a quilt?
A:
I ain't been too long.
four years.
(Mrs. Greer-neighbor)
It's been about
(Mrs. Hartley) I guess it has since we made one.
But I've got some more to make cause I have got some to quilt.
�25
I ain't got nowhere to put them up to quilt.
Ain't got room in here
and it is too hot upstairs in the summer time and too cold in the
winter time.
Q:
Where did you used to quilt them?
A:
We'd quilt them right here but we didn't have as many things in
this room,
(Mrs. Hartley left the room to get a quilt to show me so I talked
to Mr. Hartley about school until she got back.)
Q:
How much schooling did you have?
A:
I went to the fourth grade and then I got sick end had to quit.
Q:
Do you remember your first year of school, the Very first day of
of school?
A:
Yeah, I didn't like it.
Q:
You didn't like it?
A:
Well, I didn't like my teacher awfully good.
Q:
Where did you go to school?
Ai
It was down here.
Why not?
I tell you, you know down yonder where come
down, you know where the church is around there?
Well, you know
where you come on down to that road you turn left to come straight
on down
this way?
Well you remember after you got on down, you
�26
remember that house that's setting over that creek?
Right there
was where the school house was at.
Q:
Really?
How long has it been since they have torn it down?
A:
They te.d the last school house there at the '40 flood.
(Mrs. Hartley returned with her quilt)
Q:
Oh, this is beautiful!
When did you make this one?
A:
It ain?.t been too long since we quilted this one.
Q:
Is this a certain pattern?
A:
Star. (Mr. Hartley)
If she wants to make a certain design in
her quilting, I help her figure her patterns out.
Q:
Do you make up the patterns?
A:
Yeah
Q:
I knew that there were some certain patterns to go by but I
didn't know that you all had made these up.
pretty.
A:
Oh, these are
Now, do you do these by machine or hand or what?
(Mrs. Hartley) I can do it by hand or by machine or either one,
It is quilted by hand.
Q:
Are you ging to go back to quilting?
A:
I don't know.
I don't know whether I could or not.
I've got
�27
I ain't hardly able to do nothing.
A:
(Hr. Hartley)
People used to talk about seeing such hard times
back then, I don't wonder at it.
Took everything they could
rake and scrape to buy buttons with to go on the clothes aad
they was made of brass, and brass never was cheap.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Well, people back then didn't know how to have nothing.
The land
vas worth three times as much as it is now and -they planted about
four hill of corn to the acre.
(Mr. Hartley)
They would plant
•the corn four foot apart each way.
Q:
They just didn't know?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) Didn't know hosr to do it.
take you right now and show you a farm.
(A\r. Hartley) I can
It is in Ashe County
and it is a beautiful farm too and way back, it is a great big
farm about 300 acres was sold for one old hog rifle.
Swapped
for one rifle.
Q:
Really?
Whose farm'-is it?
A:
Cooper's, Cooper's farm.
(Mrs. Hartley) People used to buy all
all the land the land they wanted for $4.00 an-acre.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Sell any kind of old bluff for $2.00 an acre.
Q'i
Why do you think their has been such a drastic change in the prices
of land and everything>else?
A:
Well I don't know.
People has just got to be bigger dogs than
�28
they used to be I reckon.
(Mr. Hartley) and what's run the prices of
land up here in the mountains so much is the people from Florida and
also from the North coming back here, and what I think has really
happened is people has made so much money they either have a farm
or a lot that costs just so they got it.
See they could buy that
land cheaper than they could pay their income tax.
Q:
What do you all think about all these people coming from Florida
aid like from the North coming in and building houses and all these
condominiums and things on top of mountains?
A:
(Hrs. Hartley) Well, I don't exactly approve of that, do you?
(Mr. Hartley) Well, I will tell you what I think about that.
I think we should hold that more or less for the people in our
own state.
a home.
Now say for instance,say you wanted to go buy you
How much more would that home cost you on that account?
A 30, a $25.000 and a $30.000 home now ain't worth over $45.000.
And they will burn you. up building it.
And'the labor costs on
a home now is more than the material to build it.
people wfisn^t work like they used to did.
Because
And most of the contractors
when you build now, they build you a house at costs plus 10%.
Well they don't try to save nothing on that building material.
They don't try to save nothing on the lot.
Now they don't care
how long it takes them to build it, why the more they are going
to make.
self.
(Mrs. Hartley}
Well, built our house practically his
He cut every piece of framing in it but three.
it his self.
He built
�29
Q:
How long did it take you to build it?
A:
Well, in getting my^timber out and having it sawed, it took me a
little over a year.
See, I cut my own logs and had them sawed.
I built this houee for a little less thafa $22.00.
I am thinking
about, I don't know whether I will or not, I been thinking a little
bit about building me another one.
Me and a friend of mine are
going to buy a sawmill, in fact we are going to build us one
a piece.
Yeah, we are going to cut our own timber.
Q: Where would you build it?
A:
I would probably build right around here somewhere and my friends
gonna build one about a quarter of a mile on up above here.
Right
there's where I was born and raised.
Q:
You said awhile ago when I was talking to
you about school.
Do
you remember any experiences that you had in grade school?
A:
Well, not but a very few of them, Matter of fact, what I liked
about school, only it was different than it is now.
We run up with
a problem then in school that you didn't know what to do with, your
teacher, she would come to your seat and sit with you and explain
dt to you and help you, or my teachers would.
She would work with
the whole class like that as long as we had her for a teacher.
learned in school and learned and learned fast.
And my favorite
subject was arithmetic, but today we call it math.
Q:
How much schooling did you have Mrs. Hartley?
We
�30
A:
They just, when I was growing up they was just three months school.
Maybe I would get to go two or three days during the whole term.
never went to school none to amount to
nothing.
I
(Mrs. Greer) She
can out read any body you ever seen.
Q:
Did you teach yourself to read?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
You did?
A:
Well, •-! just got to reading every little thing I could come across.
How did you know how to teach yourself?
(Mrs. Greer)
there?
Q:
You see all them books and things stacked up across
She reads everything in the world.
That is really good.
What about your brothers and sisters, did
they get to go to school?
A:
Oh yeah, they went to school.
Q:
Did your parents go to school?
A:
Yeah, both of them could read and write.
Q:
How many years did £hey go?
A:
I don't know.
They didn't have no school much.
Back then children
didn't get to go to school, they had to work, and their wasn't
no compulsion school laws then.
Q:
I never went to school none hardly.
Do you know what they used'to do Hor discipline in the schools?
�31
A:
Used to whip them.
stand up.
Sometimes make them slay in.
Sometimes make them
I was going to school in an old log cabin, and one
boy, they made him stand up and he fainted.
He was a grown man
just about, Granville Tripplett.
Q:
Who was it?
A:
Qranvilfc Tripplett.
Q:
Do you say you went to school in a log cabin?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Was it one room?
A:
fust one room and they didn't have no glass in them, just open
He is dead now.
windows and a big old fireplace, they kept a fire in it, big old
chimney, kept a fire in.
Q:
Who would keep the chimney supplied with wood?
A:
Well, the students would.
Yeah, they was woods all around it and
and they would cut the wood.
Q:, About how many students would be in the classroom?
A:
They would be about.
I've got a group here of pictures taken,
maybe I can find it.
Q:
What did they used to do for discdpLine when you went to school?
A:
(Mr. Hartley) Well, sometimes they would use a switch on them,
�32
sometimes a paddle or they'd rnark a ring out in the center of the
floor and make them stand on one foot for a certain length of time.
Q:
What if they would fall?
What would the teacher do if they lost
their balance?
A:
Send them back to their seat.
Then alot of times they would make
them mark a ring on the floor and make them hold their arm up
like that for a certain length of time, ot again go up and put a
dot on the board and make them stand on their tiptoes with their
nose in that dot on the chalkboard.
Q:
Just anything they could think of to do.
A:
Yeah.
But I will tell you though, the teacher I had was good to
them but she kept them under control.
Q:
Was she a strict teacher?
A:
Well, the same teacher I went to was my first grade teacher, second,
third and fourth grade as the grades come up for me, why she got up,
she come up and started teaching higher grades.,
Q:
Who was she?
A:
It was Ollie Triplett at that time, it is Ollie Thompson now.
Q:
So she would just move up with you all in the grades?
As you
would move up to another grade, she would move up?
A:
Well, see she would go to school herself when school was out.
She
�33
would build herself up to it,.
She'd teach around here and -then when
school was out she would go to college.
Q:
Well how would the teacher go about teaching if you were all
different ages?
A:
Would he teach you all at one time?
No, they had certain classes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and
7th grades.
Q:
Would they all be in the same room?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
What would the other ages be doing when he was teaching another
age group?
A:
They was, they'd just call them up to class and have them recite
one class at a time.
Q:
What would the others be doing though?
A:
Be studying.
(Mr. Hartley)
I believe folks back then days too
Wis alot stricter with their younguns than they are now.
Back
then it is a possibility that they were too strict with their
family andnow it is a possibility that some of them are not strict
enough.
Don't you believe that a lot of this doping that has got
dnto the college and many different places, don't it start at the
students homes?
Q:
I couldn't really say.
�34
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) No, I don't really believe parents, if they know
that, I don'tAtheir parents would allow it. Of course alot of the
parents are dopes too.
(Mr. Hartley) Yeah, what I mean, I think
alot of times I believe these things begins at home.
Q:
Probably so.
Probably has the roots of it at home.
A:
Or at least in the hometown.
You see, the students that go to
college up there are from all over.
some cases their from other nations.
All over the nation and
I don't know you might not
agree but I think in America, I don't think they should allow
anybody in Boone to have schools but for theJAmerican students.
And you know that as messing up our nations too much and that is
giving other nations the chance to learn too much about our affairs,
Q:
You think they should stay in.their own nations and country and
go to their own schools?
A:
I think that we'd be better off.
Q:
That is interesting.
A:
This United Nations"4Keu have got I don't think too much of fchat.
Because we are paying for all of it and the other nations are
paying for none of it.
Q:
We are paying all the expenses.
You don't think that it is helping keep peace or something with
other countries or anything?
A:
There^ is no way to keep peace with other countries because we have
�35
done found, looks to me we've done found that out.
All they are
doing now, just trying to get everything out of us
that they can
and we are giving it to them.
Now I have had people that stayed in
i
Germany for three or four years andhow I had a cousin, her and her
husband stayed ovet there for four years and she told me that the
German people had any love for Americans they did not.
they hated our guts.
fact.
(Mrs. Hartley)
She said that
And I wouldn't doubt it that ain't about the
Now I think that our government authorities is
just doing the American people awful wrong.
They are taxing them out
of all reason in the world and then sending it to them people over seas
now that is not fair.
I don't think they should do that.
(Mr. Hartley)
Well, now you know when they settled this here peace treaty there in
Vietnam, whenithey went- and signed that peace treaty and they wanted to
i
give North Vietnam so many million dollars, two and and a half million,
I think, and South Vietnam two and a half million , I agree with you
that isn't fair, it isn't fair.
Q:
What, to give them the money?
A:
To give thm the money to build back with.
They was the ones that
started the war and they were the ones tho^" tore up everything.
Vfty not let them fix it back themselves.
Q:
Where would they get the money to fix :it back?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley)
Where did they get all the money to buy all that
equipment for the war?
�36
Q:
Well, that is right.
A:
(Mr. Hartley)
I think to let them whup theirselves, that would
teach them a leason.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-25
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with William and Elizabeth Hartley, June 11, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Elizabeth Hartley was born in Arnold's Branch, North Carolina in 1900 and lived on a farm where her only job was to collect herbs and dig roots. William Hartley is the son of Elizabeth Hartley.
Mr. and Mrs. Hartley both talk about growing up and childhood activities such as picking herbs, but they both agreed their childhoods were mostly hard. Mr. Harley talks about playing instruments like the organ and his interest in music, while Mrs. Hartley discusses her hobby of quilting. They both reminisce about what it was like living through the Great Depression and such as using electricity for the first time in 1953 and seeing their first car in 1922.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Weaver, Karen
Hartle, William and Elizabeth
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/11/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
36 pages
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
document
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
111_tape73_William&ElizabethHartley_1973_06_11M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Triplett, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County
Elizabeth Hartley
farming
Great Depression
herbs
homemade remedies
instruments
Quill Weed
quilt making
quilts
roots
sawmill
schoolhouse
Triplett
William Hartley
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/1c04874866d2f6313dada5f54c78381b.pdf
e9fdcfa2c1181ce72c540cb6fcb66ae6
PDF Text
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�Page
Q:
Were .your chicken;:; principlly fcr
egg production?
A:
X e a h , just for eggs.
Q:
Did yen. have any boilers or roaster;;?
A:
No, we just carried a few layers mostly then.
Took, one ana ate
ore occasionally, jutvt more for laying,
Q:
Were you cows principlly .fcr meat or for milk?
A:
T b e y ' s for milk., most alt
for milk and calves.
Q:
¥ our hogs.
W e ' d kill a b e e f , bat prin^:iplly
Raise the calves, you k n o w , and sell them.
You mentioned, you had hogs.
f a r m , o.r did you let
A:
of them.
Dio yon keep them on the
them run f r ^ c ?
No we kept them up here in pens.
We never did let
them run. out r u o h
We just .kept three or lour for our killing, you know what 1 .moan.
A:
us abont t h a t ?
A:
Well, I remember about Easter,
UL- boys would get out, and :.:i;ea.L the
egg,., ana hirie them in the hay stack' a.nd w e ' d have around, 1 guesG, half a.
bushel of Easter egg,-3 that w e ' d g e t . gach as that, 1 remember- t h a t mighty
good.
Q:
Did you color egge?
A:
Yeah, colored eggs, bcilea egge, fried eggs, I looked forwarn to
"Easter.
Q:
What aid you use to color the eggs?
A:
Well, we u e u a J l v got. gras:- and onion hull;: to make our green-
Brovaa,
�Page 3
now that was alder bark.
Ana blue, I forget what we made the blue out o.f.
We used to make up a coloring out of stuff like that you know and color.
Get a pretty good, color too.
Mrs. A:
A:
And then we'd get cloth, you know,, that would fade...
...put that around them and that there would make a pretty color.
Q:
How was Christmas?
A:
Well, my Christmas was gun shooting, gun mostly.
fellow to hunt, shoot guns.
you know, have a big time.
Mrs. A:
Coming down
A:
I was a powerful
We'd usually get out a crowd of us hunting,
Looked forward to old Santy when we was young.
the chimney.
Never did get to see him come down the chimney, and I finally
dec idea there wasn't any Santy Glaus.
$:
Did he bring you anything?
A:
Yeah, he'd usually bring us some toys.
back them days, and a bucket of candy.
And my
A stick of candy mostly,
stepmother'd make a whole
lot of little cookies, you know, like animals and such as that.
We thought
that was a big Christmas, you know, then.
Mrs. A:
A:
You got to make fire balls and throw them.
Yeah, get to make fire balls.
A crowd of us get out 'with kerosene,
roll them up about as big as of your fist, and soak them in kerosene oil.
Get us on some gloves and we'd throw them as high as they coula.
had a big time such as that.
Boy, we
Shooting firecrackers, roman candles, skyrocket;
Q:
Were there any celebrations of the Fourth of July around here?
A:
No, they never did pay much attention back then to the Fourth of
July.
About like any other day.
They went about, everybody. They worked
on the Fourth of July just same as they would the third.
usually celebrate, you know, on the Fourth of July.
But now, they
A lot of people.
�Q:
How w'i s the work on the farm done princlplly, like yc^r plowing,
your cultivating?
A:
Plowed it kith a yoke of
cattle.
Kce it kith hoet;.
Cultivate,
maybe with one steer, single steer, you know, tangle yoke.
Mrs. A:
A:
Thought you bad some horses?
No, he never did Keep much.
a yoke cattle.
Always had
When they'd got 30 big and old, he'd nell them off, and
get iiim a. young one, and I'd break
Q:
He liked a yoke o.i' cattle.
them in for bin.
Were mot:t of the crops that you grew for your owr; use or aid you
eeil Gome?
A:
No, we j u s t a b o u t made enough for
buy a. little.
Q:
curcelves.
Now ana tiv-n have bc^
D o n ' t reckon ive ever sold i'ny.
How omen y t u f f were you able to produce on your farm and how K U C H
,:;tu.ff did you have to go to the store and buy?
A:
We produced might near to everything e,xcept sugar salt, eoaa a r x " . . . .
Mra.A:
Coffee.
A:
'Coffee and stuff like that,
We rna.de about everything V;H oat back
then, e.xcept something like that.
MrB.A:
Had their own cows and milk, you know, eniekene, egg:;.
Had their
own hogs.
A:
They depended on making their living and laying it up.
their living up in the summer to o:.o them that w i n t e r .
get out
i:n'id
w o r k or e] ;:,p they cut
They d i d n ' t have to
fi.rewood or something,
and eut firewood.
Plenty of timber, you knov:.
a big tree, une it
for firewood.
They laid
lined f j I'eplace:-,
A man could get out ana cut
1 guens that tree would now bring two or
t h r e e hundred d e J l a r a .
Q:
How did they keep the food.?
you t;aid they laid up in
tine '..aiiruaei1.
�What would they ri.r-:e i.n the winter.
A:
How' aid th.ey preserve
Well, corn we had a big crib, you know.
get dry, and put it :in tlier^.
bar1"!-Is arid s t u f f ' , ry- j .
Meat, y o u ' d salt it
layer of s a l t .
it?
W e ' a shuck our corn when
it
Buckwheat, i t ' d ary out and w e ' d j u s t put in
I t ' d keep it right, on, I r e c k o n .
away in a. tog meat box you knew.
1 d o n ' t knove.
A layer of meat, •->
Had enough meat there to last no telling how long.
Now
i t ' s go to the store to get a little piece.
Q:
Y e a h , and t h a t ' s a b o u t all you get, a little piece.
A:
A little piece tor a lot of money.
A:
HOK as-out the fruits and vegetables? (to Mrs. A) You rtdghf be able
to tell me about that.
fD's.A:
A:
About drying.
he know;s more about if
t h a n I do.
h e ' s the one t h a t . . . .
They canned oher.ries, si.raivberries, apples, stuff like that.
usually has plenty of that to do us.
Raised ca,ne.
T~e.y
Make cane molasses, PI-.T,
them in a b.i g barrel, you iino^.
Mrs.A:
A:
you?
Had bees, drawed them.
Put honey in cans.
The "way we done that molasses.
You never seen a molasses barrel, did
I t ' s a b o u t like a 60 gallon oil barrel.
A wooden barrel.
And t h e r e ' s
a big, they called it a bung hols:, you know about the middle of i t .
get a funnel and pour the moiass.es down, in there and he had him
pieces of timber,
He'd
a conple
lie wanted to get molasses, h e ' d just roll that <iown to
where t h e y ' d come out t h e r e , when you wanted to get you out some to e a t .
Q:
How did you make molasses?
A:
You raised cane, you stip it,
a cane mill, ana boil the juice down.
and top it.
Haul it in, srind it in
1 guess i t ' d take about five gallon
o f ' j u i c e i,o make a gallon of moia.sees, something like that..
a whole lot
of juice, you k n o w .
Grind if
But tk^y made
in a cane mill and make s
�wa ber coming out all the time.
Q:
You never did, see any made, did y o n ?
I ' v r seen films of people making it,
I ' v e never seen It in p e r s o n .
Did you all make maple syrup.
A:
Tap trees and make maple syrup and tree sugar.
Tap ane. boil the
wattr down like you. do the other, only not as big of vessels.
as RID oh water as yoa do with cane juice.
You. d o n ' t get
Takes about a bushel of water to
make about a quart of molasses of the sugar tree water.
you never seen any made of tree molasses, 1 guess?
Did, you ever see -
Sugar, maple syrup?
Well, we caLleo it t r e e molasses.
Q:
Was the tre<-s sugar that you m a d e . . . .
A:
We boiled it
on a little more, a little longer , than when it got
down to molasses. Pour it
put , i t in, you know.
out in a vessel, grease your vessel yoi s i^anf t.o
Make a cake, a dish or something, tea cup or anything,
pint, -4 little butter it and, grease.
while i t ' s colling,
a ca l -e of tree sugar.
Pour it
out in there hot.
You stir i t
Ano, then when if got cool, if was hard you Know.
Just
It was good t o o .
Q:
'Was it
A:
Used what?
Q:
Did they use the tree sugar more than white sugar?
A:
N o , they used more white siigar then tree sugar a lot.
sugar.
used a lot instead of regular white sugar?
Brown and whits
Used a right smart amount of brown sugar back then.
Q:
Did you ever do any sawmilling?
A:
Not very much.
Not enough to say anything.
Worked around i.ner: just
a little b i t , packing lumber or something, but t h a t ' s about a l l .
Q:
You said earlier that your f a t h e r owned, a store.
How big of a store
to.^8 it?
A:
Oh, 1 I w a s n ' t a very big store.
Just a little eld country store.
�:
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�A:
Some of them had the money ana some had chickens, eggs and butter and.
stuff like that, you see.
North
You could- he could just turn that ever at
Wilkesboro when he went after a wagon load of groceries.
needed a lot of dry a tuff like that you know.
If he
There wasn't, very much money.
There van a few, pretty well to do old farmers that had plenty of money.
Took in a little money.
Of course, little money then would be a whole lot
of money now.
Q:
What size were the bjg farms around here?
If you were going to
categorize the farms, about what siae would be a big farm?
A:
Let's see.
Well, somewhere - I don't know of any farms that you
would call a farm much less than 60 acres to 230 to JOO.
•were mighty scattered through, here back then.
timber.
These houses
Plenty of land, plenty of
And they finally got to using the timber, you know.
hauling it to Shounels.
25 miles and a railroad run in there to Shounels,
termessee, and over to Mountain City.
got to getting better all the time.
till they just got rich.
Sawing it and
And some got to sawmilling, and they
And them fellows kept on sawmilling
Two of my brothers, I guess they're worth about
as much as anybody in the county, Mike and Glenn.
They started out saw-
milling and kept on till they got to bringing a lot of money and then they
put them in a flooring plant.
West Jefferson.
Oak floring plant, make flooring here at
And they made a lot of money, clear money there at that.
Finally sold that out.
Q:
what was sawmilling like back then?
They didn't hsve electricity tc
A:
No, steam boilsrs and sawmills - the mill part was a lot like a -
the power was steam boilefr fired by wood you know.
using gas motors.
Then they got to
That's about what they use now for saw milling; a gas m.ctcj
�Q:
Was sawrnilling a pretty hard business?
Was it, harde>" t h a n farming
.in this area?
A:
Pretty hard job that savmifling.
Pretty hard, work,
Q:
Wore there any times, back whan you were growing up that -- ..Like
then- was bad growing season and the farmer..,.
A:
They wag a f^w kind of droughts, you know, wet seasons, but they didrd
make as much as some seasons as others.
Good and bad, sort of like it is
now.
Q:
Were there times when you were really digging deep and ui.gel aa as your
t>sft for lack of food?
A:
No, they might nearly had enough bo live or; the year round, of
course, people now days, children, they wouldn't know what to think if
you set them down to buckwheat cakes and white gravy for breakf a si/, would
they?
Molasses and. berries, stuff like that.
Q:
'I've eaten it many a time,
A:
Hove you?
0•
\ai.
v,-.- --, -.
>- i.,-,^i.
A:
Such s...-, that is w;'iai we had back then.
bread, corn bread.
Mrs.A.:
You're
Rye bread, little wheat
Two or three kinds of bread we had back then.
going to make it sound piti.ful.
A:
flnh?
Q:
Sounds good,
Mre.A:
You:1 re going to make it sound pitiful if you don't hush.
A:
No, at wa0 pretty good times then.
Didn't have to buy much,
Q:
Did your mother have a wood stove back: then?
A:
ieah, she had a wood stove.
Q:
Hid she ever have to cock in the fire place any?
�Pase 1C
A:
Well, we had a fireplace.
She'd cook beans on the fire.
Had a
big skillet, and she'd bake , a cake of corn bread, and if she cd.dn't want
to fire up the stove and, the skillet on the hearth, you know.
Guess you've
seen that, haven't you, or have you?
Q:
Yeah.
A:
My, we got a daughter down here West Jefferson.
They've got a den
there and she got her big skillet and she still - in winter time, when she's
got ,-• fire in the aen fireplace, she'll bake her a big cai<e of corn breao.
and set her sweet milk out a little while before if there's ice and cold
and much ice.
Mrs.A:
A:
money.
Take it out of the refrigerator.
Boy, she likes sorriotning like that.
And tney're worth a lot of
They just like that.
Q:
"What sort of things did your mother bake?
Do you remember?
A:
Biscuits, corn bread, pancakes, rye bread, spple pies, cakes,
stuff like that.
Q:
Did she like tha wood stove better than - I don't guess she ever
did have an electric 31.eve?
A:
No, there wasn't no electric stoves back then.
Q:
Did she like cooking on the wood stove better than en the,...
A:
Fireplace?
Yeah, they thought they'a up in the upper ten if they
had a cook stove. They didn't all have cookstoves.
But they finally kept
on getting them in until they - got them a second hsnd one maybe.
And when
'.idle to buy them a new one, they'd buy an old stove.
Q:
Didn't have refrigerators back then, did you?
A:
No, we had a spring trough.
Q:
Like that one in yonder?
A:
Like one in yonder.
spring, wsliea up of rocks.
Not exactly like that one.
We'd just have a
I/fall ourselves a spring trough, ana fix that
where it would go right on down to trie spring in there.
Floor was up nere
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�A:
Oil, we had. a big time at them.
have edeggi-r dialogee, all
too;
Black our facee Ilk- -I gg': r e , and
kindo of things ...... they ' a cone fron far ana > ear
they r a j'Lu>t nil that hor.ee th-y-.ro eeactiy ehee. we- ha'! our red, e Heel, er
Q:
What «ero eomo of the game;-- you played?
A:
Well, tad d play,, at jehool, w o ! d play jail, bane - haee-baj.i,
ctnf.r' .Li »:•.:> t h a t .
•-•-• ••oiui ; .S , you l::iow.
tag,
ti \\Ufi
Just s5.n-3« aro'^i'id the i.'0;.a;s: thai, wa.;_; ono .you ci;;--,, iod
Dron tho ha.aK.ei'ohi;:l' btT.:'i.nd oorrkvbody and then pull o'j.t
•'•nd ;v;o:.i had to beat then tu get yoar place back vhore yen ;;;ta:r:i>x. .,;.•;!•? way
We : \ a> <;•'.; th.. t ,r\ieht spiavt.
Q:
:f c:ah , wo a:e:e; tu play that at achcol.
A:
N", th.ey \va,e:d I ev,vr any -larieee back bhet- ai;, I rea7ie;nber.
Mra.i.A:
Were there ever ;-e;y
Th*-y jc-j''j I:. ad d,i ri'ereat parties an^.i .110 dancing.
A:
Q:
What did. you. do whea you were- courting?
A:
Oe, we w o n t . . . .
Mi-,s.A:
A:
'whena/ did yen ge oe late;:
T h a t ' d bo '-, long story.
W- d i d n ' t halve no h o r a e a.nd buggy bhen much.
Tn<- r oonu eg .;..V:n ha:
a. noiee:- end. buggy, ana they' ; takt; tneii- gird oat ofr a ridf'.-.
W e ' d t k.3et,
a creed o," ee ;i'.iet get together, you e v a:.iv, g...:t a r o u n d , go p.Lecee.
maydi':, up on M o u a t a i a ; p].:;,,.:r te look o f t .
bee;; thoro havoeH you?
thinik net-hing -jbout it
Wore!- than Bloving Rod',
Abo;,t chree ridlo valk.
Walk:i:j|
Yeu' •
W o ' d .d.;.oe w a l k ta-.-r: 3ed
- big crowd get together - eix or seven of u.e, you
Q:
Die you eaye pierei.ee?
A:
Pi.crd.ee, yeah,
Q.:
Were there ;•, l o t of aerieiuei ty a c i d viii t .:; b;,.;k. ei-e?
bao picnice, had a oi g t-imi^ at th;.K.
�Pasx 1:
A:
ik j ah, they had big revival aeeting:; 1 • the c h u f c h .
and held LL about a week, sometimes Uvo weeks.
going to meetings.
About one a year
Had " pretty &.i;:' ii;;ie
W e ' d court a right much then, gel eg back and f o r t h to
Church.
Q:
Hov; often did you hav> your regular sivoday oervicco?
Or we.r'f: the
services every sunday?
A:
No.
Evecj thiru sunday, I think uar time COKO.
about four I'diurche;;}.
The pr-yn^h^i 1
.had
About i.;very third -unday h(.;'d get a r c v u n n ',o • : • . .
Had
;.;un.T:.y cchool every auruiay.
Mrs.A:
A:
Preachers had to come from Wf-ad:, Jrl'foraoii.
Y'_ : ah.
Some of bhem walked dow;i .from t o w n up here.
and bag^iHO.
Q:
A:
Lt don't uardly Bound like it
Some had horde,;:.
could be true, doe.-; it?
What type o p preacher,;; ^ere they?
Some; oi' tiit:;T!.i pretty good ane. uorric of them 1 i v o u l d n ' t w a l k fron: h(-•!.'e
iji.; 'til-'; ytor;-- 1 «
Q:
Whet type of churchee v/ere in thir; a r e a ?
A:
Mothod:] ;.;t,, Baptitrt j/jn^t]y.
hei'f: .'.'Ijf.vut
Mr's.A:
A:
Thero was a Holineo;.; ehiiref, back r ver
: rti.lle, righi, bhi;; f j i d n o.l"' that KChoolhoabe I v/at t e J J . i r i g al.'./i.rh.
Then '.heec- a a e n ' t a.oy Holineee a.roar.d h e r e . . , .
Not Mien.
P r e s b y t e r i j i i , Presbyterian back the;;.
Keet'ly Baptist and
Metj:od;.d. back t h e n .
KIT;.A:
have you been ovor through Mill Creek?
Q:
N o t yet.
A:
No, it
Did th<r railroad affect the farmero around here pretty iiiuch
IK j.ped oi.it a rigat n i u a r t .
croet? ties right ii; here,
bwo or th.ree miles.
and all.
nioet anywhere.
They - see they could haul the
They haa a ,.witch, riiayht:,, uvery
They could switch off a car,
It helped out.
load a car with croesties
Extract, tan b a r k , it was a right smart :;oo:a
back whea the; rallroa.,.! corne through here.
Helped t h e fanners out.
Everybod
�Page 15
merchants and everything.
People began to sort of get on their feet
and make a, little jnoney then5
Q:
Did it come down this way any way?
I know it come through Boone,
but.,,,
A;
Yeah, this one come right through here.
Abington to West Jefferson.
It come from West Jefferson,
That^'s the old railroad grade right over there.
From the intersection there, well, down here it leaves Walter Baldwinvs this side of Walterl's, it leaves the railroad.
And part of the way, it's an
the old railroad grade and up the river from Fleetwood to Todd.
You never
been up there have you?
Q:
Not yet,
A:
That road, all the way from Fleetwood down here to Todd's on the old
railroad grade.
the old depot.
Elkland, they called it Elkland back then.
They dug it out.
Of course they could haul it to town instead,
They got trucks and pretty good roads.
took it out, you know.
Depot's there yet,
It didn't affect them bad when they
Six miles, five or six from here to West Jefferson.
And they could take it up from there to Abij/igton? I don*t if they will or not.
It ..run from Boone now to, let!ls see, it ran from Boone to Elizabethton,
didn't it?
I rode on that road.
Oi
Up around through Linville,
A;
iVe come around there on the train from Boone, out in there around
Shell Creek, Elizabethton.
I used to barber in Elizabethton.
I could get to
Boone very good, but you had to catch a ride from there down here.
There
wasn't near as many cars running as there is nowadays, you know,
Q:
Do you remember when
you saw you first automobile?
A.'
Yeah, I remember when I seen the first one
ever delivered around
Boone,
A lawyer lived, Tom Bowie, West Jefferson,
He drove it up there and
boy it looked like he's liable to run over everybody in the road.
That's the
�Page 16
first one I had was a T model ford.
We kept one of them a right smart little
bit.
0:
Were there any gas stations around here then?
A:
Well, not close.
About, West Jefferson is about the closest one for
a:long time,
Mrs.A
A lot of difference with that store a being over there, and things
settled around here and there's nobody but us, one house up above us.
A'
Now my daddy owned from up here, about half way to the intersection,
not quite half way, you know where the intersection is at Buvall-'s.
My
daddy and his brother owned from down here,, about cross this ridge here.
He owned land from down there up to John and Duvall's,
mountain to the top of this.
The top of that
And made a right smart of land, you know.
I've
tried to count up hov many families lived on the two farms of my daddy and
Uncle..,.
By the way, he jugt had one boy.
got two hundred and fifty acres,
He had two girls and he hoped they
wouldn't sell any as long as they lived.
And they've got it yet.
Baldwin.
He died
My first cousin did. 'My uncle died back
several years ago and my aunts, and that left it to him.
you know.
I guess he
He kept that land and said he wasn't never
going to sell any, long as he lived.
about two or three years ago,
He kept that land.
He Inherited it
I worked a lot for him, painting - building houses.
And died at
Well, they just about owned all of Baldwin, what you'd call Baldwin.
Just two brothers.
Then it was cut up and divided up with their children.
My
daddy gave me a batch of land over here to build on, my other brother back up
here, my sister back up toward Baldwin,
Just scattered
around.
They's
houses3 there's no telling, I guess there's fifteen houses now where there's
one then,
That's the way time changes,
in the next seventy five years?
Reckon therelll be that much change
�Page 17
Q;
I don't know.
It can't change - if it changes that much people aren't
going to have much, more than the land the house is on.
How did the people
have to change their way of life during the depression?
A:
Well, they had to go, most of them had soap houses, you know, and
they'd depend on that you know.
The soap house, we never did - here in the
country, it was as bad as it was away in these big towns, you know.
We
depended on the farm, you know,
Mrs,A3
We had our own milk? had our own cheese3 eggs and all.
Mad our own
meat,
A:
Like I feay3 1 was a painting,
And about me and another or two was the
only painters there was in the county, and fellows that had a little money,
why they could hire to have it done, you know,
the depression,
It just happened so.
I had it pretty good back in
If I hadn't been a painter, I'd of
had a heck of a time,
Q;
What were the wages an hour?
A;
About a dollar and a half an hour were good wages for back then.
I
said a dollar and a half an hour - dollar and a half a day,
Mrs,A;
I thought you's wrong.
A:
Yeah, we've not been a getting two or three dollars an hour here but
just a few years for painting, you know.
They thought that was pretty good.
Of course, our boy makes more than that.
He contracts, works about half a
dozen men, you know.
Runs everything,
Q;
Were there any government programs around here during the depression?
A:
Let's see, I reckon the NYA work here.
Q:
I've heard of the WA.
A',
WPA and NYA.
Know anything about that?
I was the foreman of the NYA.
weeks,, about twenty the next two weeks.
About twenty boys for two
It give them half time.
And give
about twenty two weeks and then they'd lay off, and let the other twenty come on.
�Page 18
About forty, I think, Keeping time.
It was pretty good back then. Better
than when you don*t mind mucli in the country such as that,
$50 a month for my job.
1 just drawed
I thought I was flying then.
Mrs.As
We was married millionaires.
Q;
What did these work projects do?
As
Remodel school houses around where they needed some remodeling, set
out trees one day and another.
Dig wells.
tables or something Itke that, you know,
inside in the winter time.
Make, in bad weather, weM make
Get in the dry, you know, working
Let them make stuff like that, you know.
Now
there was one of these boys there in the NYA work,, he was starting out just they'd take them up to eighteen years old - but wasn't eighteen.
was about sixteen.
And one of the boys now is the biggest contractor in
Ashe County, was under me when he was working
working with me on the NYA,.
what he was doing.
the others.
I guess he
under me back when he was
James Vannoy , he was a good one though.
He knew
I could ask him to come if I wasnvt there looking after
He was a big man there.
My boy over there said he had $20,000
worth of work contracted, painting now for the contractor James 'Vannoy.
But
the government, I believe he said he asked the other day, told me had $40,000
worth of painting contracted right now.
That's different from back when we''re
talking about old times, i§n'>t it?
Qj
What was the biggest job that you ever contracted?
A;
A girl's dormitory at Boone,
painted that,
contracted.
I. contracted that.
You know, old gir!T's dormitory.
I
That *'s about as big a one as I ever
I worked there a long time painting in Boone, at the
Paint there in the summer time when they's going and coming.
college.
We'd just have
to stop painting when they*s changing classes, you know, going through the
halls.
Waited until they got settled down before we could go to work,
to work at Boone.
I like
We was working at Boone when they built this road round
�Page 19
to Deep Gap( you knov\m there to B,oone., you know/s 42.1, You know^ where
that^s at? out here at -Deep Gap, don'-t you?
WeM go this- road all the, time,
It seems to me lifce. it would be farther around this wayf hut it ^s twenty
one mile through by Todd, and nineteen around here by Deep Gap.
Of course,
Boone is in this way a heap more south than you would think about, But
when we'd get done painting, we come this other road.
They didn'vt have it
finished up yet, h.ard surfaced, hut they had the gravel on it - packing it
down.
Q;
Boy, I thought th,at was a good road,
You mentioned earlier about people having to gather roots and all.
Did they gather more during the depression?
A"
Yeah, I guess there was more gathered roots and herbs hack then
than they have at times,
Well, they couldn't get money much for that.
But they'd take them to the store, buy them something to eat it, you know.
The merchants would buy that.
Then they ship it, you know, in big., big-
Mrs. A:
His hohbyfs trapping.
0.;
Really?
A:
Yeah> I like to trap, Caught me four minks back up here in ^ I''s
telling you about my cousin's place up here.
just last winter.
Brought me forty five dollars on them,
muskrats, got them down by the river.
mighty trapping.
I got three minks up there
Forty five
Three coons and a possum.
That's
I just like to have something for a hobby, you know.
Q;
Did they trap a lot back when you were growing up?
A'
No,
Mrs.A;
Just mice and rats is all,
As
Now a mugkrat h^de. would bring about fifteen cents back then.
'not much..
Muskrats.
Now they br^ng, let'^s see, T got two and a half Idollars] last winter for
mine and some, of BailV, Lot of difference there in the price of stuff
like that.
�Page 20
Qs
Was there much moons-hjnitig going on during this., in this area during
the depression?
As
NPJ they- wasn*vt to© much; thro-ugh, here.,
'Mrs,A;' Wasn'-'t any- right through; here.
As
Right through; ftere, Over in Wtlkes, they're a lot over ±n Wilkes
than was over here in Ashe County, Now and then they''d catch, a fellow
out about Idlewild or somewhere trying to make him a little bit. Hade a
heap of it in pots then, you know.
Just make, fix them a pot, cap on that.
Put the stuff in there and fix it.
They could make some pretty good
liquor in pots, big old wash pots, you know,
Q!
When you were growing up; for recreation, besides the parties and
all, in the winter time, did you have sledding parties?
A:
fun.
that.
Yeah, we'd ride on the sleds? rabbit hunt.
That's about our biggest
We'd get outside. A crcowd of boys rabbit hunting or something like
Have parties and stuff like that.
Q:
Ever make
snow cream?
As
Yeah, we made, snow cream.
Used to make homemade ice cream. I
ordered me a freezer and <- I used to barber a little here and on. About
the only one around here that could cut hair.
And I'd make a run of ice
cream Saturday and they'd gather in here, the children.
their hair cut.
ice cream.
Buy., that and get
I'd make a little money both ways, barbering and trading on
Worked in Elizabethton,
0;
Was there electricity in this area when you were barbering?
A:
No? we. just had to use these kind you work with your hands.
Q;
When did electricity first come in?
]*rs,'A3
I can hardly remember ^ it xas cherry time.
At'
I don^t remember what year it was in, We come back, they had
lights in and gone, wtten we got here.
�Page 21
Os
Was- it after the depression or before?
A;'
After.
Q,j
Before world war IX?
AT
T guess it vaa before world was II.
I don^t remember just when
they did come around putting lights around and phones,
Lights been here
longer than the telephone has really.-.
Q;
What was your first electrical appliance that you bought?
A;
Let?'s see,
I guess a radio and a refrigerator, stuff like that.
Electric heater, hot plates, one thing or another Ifjte that,
Ch
What were some of the radio programs that you listened to?
A;
We like to watch,, what is his name?
Nrs. A',
Barker.
A;
Bob Barker, we like to watch him.
Bob...
How about Paw and Ma Kettle was on?
Dillon, we like to watch him.
Did you get that a while back?
I
always like that.
Q;
';At the fair17?
Channel 3?
A;
Yeah, and Bunkers> you watch them?
Q;
What do you think of Archie Bunker?
A;
He's hard boiled, ain't he?
like tb watch the wrestling.
TheyT're pre,tty good.
We hardly ever
miss old Archie.
I
I don't get too much from football games.
Mrs.As
He likes wrestling, I don't.
A;
You ever watch wrestling?
0;
What's you philosophy of life?
A;
No, I don!lt hava one,
Q;
What dp
As
Oh,, I - people goingf looking ahead instead of back,
Do you have one?
you think insures a long life?
Lot''s of exercise,
Eat plentyP drink a sight of water.
Some future.
Not smoke too much.
�Page 22
It HI kill you if you don^t watch- out,.
Now I:Ve smoked about thirty
years,, I guess:,
Q!
Hadn'M: killed you yet,
A3
I don'-'t inhale it.
before now,
I guess if IM Iteen inhaling it, itM killed me
I like a lot of walking, stirring around. -My age, now there*'s
not many men at my age T eighty three years old - will be the 29th of
this month and that's right here.
can do a whole of ditching and
Not many men that do hardly anything.
beating rock and light work like that.
put two ditches in my garden yesterday.
I
I
Went through it? got wet and had
to cut two.
Q;
Do you remember the flood of '40?
A;
Yeah, boy, good.
Q;
How was it in this area?
A;
Well, hit pretty dad.
other bridges.
Was this area hit pretty bad?
It washed out a lot of railroad bridges and
Got up down there, just below that pot down there in the yard,
And this times it got just to the pot there about.
That's worse than the '40 flood.
1:00 O'clock when we got up.
This last one, you know?
It come nearly to the porch that night,
Wife happened to get up and look out there.
Well ., the creek's up too, and I didn't think much about it being up past
those little pines down there.
them, pines or right around,
it.
I got up and looked, and it was way up on
I couldfve- jumped off the porch in the edge of
There's water from here to that station, that sounded just like a river,
Nearly went the basement over yonder.
there.
It scared me kinda nice.
up to Greer's",
know where,
years.
That, nearly seeped in that door
I said, vGet your things on.
We're going
TBey live up a little higher land than we''s on.
it % going.
I didn't
For i;t to be higher than iM^ver seen it in sixty
It washed a let of land away back then.
Lot of houses.
�Page 23
Mrs,A3
Wasted people, a.ways
A;
It w,ash>d a store, of fter^ away from Todd,
is?
Tltey- Had a store up th:e,ret
went down.
YOU knoy wh;ere Todd
And it wash;ed it way - store, goods and all
And juat a'b'ove. you know, that other creek runs up from the
Mrs.A;
Now that was HO,
A-
HO?
river.
It was HO,
railroad down here to Todd.
QJ
'-& ^ that was back when they'-s building that
•!
'^16 - I Believe when it was built,
Do you remember any Bad men around here.
Were there any sheriffs
or outlaws?
A;
Ho there wasn''t very many through here as I can remember. Do you?
[to his wife].
around.
I guess take it on the whole, there *'s Better folk in and
There wasn't many of them, of course. There*s so many more now that,
there's more robbing and, everything like that now-a-days than there was
them,
Of course there's twenty people to one then anyway.
Can't hardly
judge it that way. But there's hardly ever a bank robbed and. things like
that back then.
0;
Were there a lot of people that were hurt around here, when the.
banks closed during the depression?
A:
Oh, not very much I reckon.
in the banks I guess.
There wasn't too many that had money
People that did have it, kept it hid under a bed
tick in the stall, a sock or stocking or something.
Mrs.A! Maybe you''11 give him an idea where we keep oups.
A?
do,
No, I keep mine in the Northwestern Bank, what little checking I
A little in Ashe Savings and Loan, just to drav interest, Thats
some of th.e easiest money a man ever made, If 1 had a whole lot of money
they-M loan out, and the,, interest counts up,
Q:
Can you th±nlt of anything else to add about the old days?
A:
I don't reckon so,
Q:
We certainly appreciate this.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
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Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
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1965-1989
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Wetmore, Dana
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2014-02-25
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Title
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Interview with James Edwards, June 12, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
James Edwards was born in Bladwin, North Carolina in 1890 where he grew up on a farm. His occupations included painting and carpentry. Mr. Edwards built his own house in 1912 in West Jefferson.
Mr. Edwards spends a large portion of the interview talking about growing up on the farm. He also talks about cooking and producing food such as molasses and drying fruits. Mr. Edwards also talks briefly about his mother's cooking and recalls some memories from holidays as a child such as Easter and Christmas. He recollects childhood memories of courting, school, church, the Great Depression, and fun activities children did at his age. He also briefly mentions helping with work projects during the Great Depression.
Creator
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McNeely, Mike
Edwards, James
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/12/1973
Rights
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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23 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape83_JamesEdwards_1973_06_12M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
West Jefferson, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Baldwin (Township)--20th century
Baldwin (N.C. : Township)--Social life and customs--20th century
Farm life--North Carolina--Ashe County--20th century
Ashe County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Ashe County
1940 flood
Baldwin
church
farming
government programs
holidays
James Edwards
James Vannoy
maple syrup
National Youth Administration
North Carolina
railroad
sawmills
schoolhouse
trapping
Work Projects Association
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b82b7c50d44c31b219ccc5f34376f72c.pdf
2ae609794a1902a7d0c69e515a224fb7
PDF Text
Text
AOHP
This is an interview with Mr. and Mrs. San Jones on the Castle
Ford Road on June 12, 1973. The interview is with Mike HcNeely.
Question:
Mr. Jones, would you tell me something about the farm you
were born on?
Answer:
It was sixty-five acres, X think.
I've cleared it here the
last few years, all ray life nearly. There's about as much land as you
can see.
Done everything that can be done to get it to work.
Qt
How many were there in your family?
A:
Nine.
Q:
How many brothers and sisters?
A:
Five girls and four boys.
Q:
Your dad had a lot of help on that farm, didn't he?
A:
Yeah, when we got up big enough. Oh we just growed corn, potatoes,
mostly theni"—-beans, and peas
anything like they do now.
little stuff like that.
Didn't grow
Pumpkins, just grow all the pumpkins and
string it and string it up and put it on posts and dry it.
Q:
Did you have any livestock?
A:
Yeah, we had hogs, cow or two and hog or two.
Chickens, geese,
guineas.
Q:
Were the cows and chickens used for meat, or were they used for
milk and eggs?
A:
No, just milk and eggs mostly.
Q:
How about your hogs?
Did you let them run free or did you keep
them in pens?
A:
No, we had a big lot back then.
That's about a acre a lot for *.-•
them to run in.
Q:
I was reading somewhere that some of the farmers let their hogs
run wild.
A:
My dad used to have forty—-one year had forty head.
Cholera got
�2.
amongst them, they was out in the mountains.
six.
That cholera111 kill them right now.
All died but five or
I've never seen but one--
I remember seeing them bring one old big hog in.
that far, I guess, out of his mouth.
His tusks was stuck
We had to cover that fellow,
you stick your finger, he'd make a dive at you, just like a snake
a-grabbing.at you.
mouth and all.
He'd eat you up.
Ah, they had him tied all over,
I don't know how in the world they ever, caught him.
I was just a little bitty fellow then, but I can remember it.
That's
been sixty year ago or more.
Q:
How often did they have a kill?
A:
Every fall.
They'd go out and shoot them down, with old war rifles,
anywhere they could find them.
Q:
How was the meat back then?
Was it as good as it is today?
A:
Well, I don't believe there was as any a fat hog, unless they got
fat on mash, they used to get awful fat on mash, Chestnuts and acorns,
Lord, there used to be worlds of them.
I picked one day, part of a
day after a big snow, about ninety pounds of chestnuts.
Early fall
and they'd been dry, you know, and they wouldn't open up, well they'd
open, but they couldn't pull out.
bring them out.
They'd take damp, you know, to
They come a snow, four or five inches, and I was on
Buffalo, and it went off a little while and boy, I mean to you, trees,
there was two or three growed up in one bunch there.
bushel or more under that.
I got a half
Boy I got all I could carry and I never
got started on them.
Mrs. J.:
Me and my sister used to pick them up, had four or five ^
trees out in the field.
went to school.
We'd pick them up in the morning before we
Sometimes we'd get three bushels.
Dad always took
produce down around Salisbury and down in there, he'd take them down
there and sell them for us.
�3.
Q:
Did you all use them around the house any?
A:
Mrs. J.
(Chestnuts, oh we'd eat all we wanted and sold bushels of
them.
Mr. J.
I used to climb trees to shake them out.
Mrs. J.
We never did shake them out. We'd just pick them up as we
went to school of the morning,when they started falling.
Q:
Was there a lot of fruit around here--berries?
A:
Mrs J.
Yeah, there used to be all kinds of berries, and apples,
and cherries.
Mr. J.
Anymore you don't get many a meal, once in a while. .. .
Now you couldn't get a cherry ham shuck for years around here.
Mrs. J.
Cherry trees just about all died.
And blackberries seem
they blight anymore, you can't get none of them.
Mr. J.
Hadn't picked a blackberry in four or five year, I don't reckon.
Mrs.J.
Sometimes you can get some wild strawberries if they don't
freeze.
Lot of time there comes a freeze about the time they're
blooming.
Don't get to bloom anymore.
Q:
How about huckleberries?
At
Mrs. J.
Are there any around here?
Ah, none to amount to anything, they used to be a good
many, back in the mountains, you know.
Mr. J.
We got, was it ninety-six quarts or something---over a hundred
one year?
Mrs. J.
About ninetyfseven^quarts, but the field that had so many in
it's been cleaned off, bulldozed out.
Mr. J.
Timber
them out, killed too lots pine
and everything. We found a bush one time, I don't know, I wasn't
with them.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Had I went that day or not?
Yeah, you was off in the field here picking.
And one of my girls found it first, then one of my boys, and
she pickftd a gallon bucket! full and he finished his off on one bush.
�4.
The biggest huckleberries
it after that.
I always
there, you know.
Q:
I ever seen.
I never did see that many on
it up when I went over in
I think it's dead now, it's been destroyed.
How did they used to put up their fruits back in your mother's
day?
A:
Mrs. J.
Most the time they just canned them, cooked them and put
them in cans, sealed them.
Mr. J.
Now they made a lot of dried sweets too.
Mrs. J.
Of course apples, they dried a lot of apples, had dried
apples and they'd dry pumpkins and way on back before I ever remember, I was told, my mother told me how they used to dry their blackberries.
They dried them.
They dried their peanuts, string beans,
and they had what they called leather britches.
Mr. J.
They are good.
They'd just seal and dry them and put meat to them, they are
good.
Q:
How much of the crop that was on the farm was sold as produce and
how much of it did you use?
A:
Mr. J. We never sold---growed anything back then when I was a boy.
Mrs. J.
Since we
when,we lived out there, a lot of time,we growed
beans.
Mr* J.
We might have sold a few taters
Mrs. J.
We growed tobacco to sell and grain, what corn we put out,
we'd use it, have our own meal and so forth, take beans to market and
tobacco.
Mr. J.
We used to make seventy-five and seventy-six gallon* of molas-
ses here and never sold a one, we eat everyone of them.
My dad, after
we all left but my youngest brother and he would eat a snuff glass
full every morning, you know, for breakfast.
(chittling) molasses.
That's a half a pint of
�5,
Q:
Did you ever make maple syrup or maple sugar?
A:
Mr. J. I made a lot of maple sugar, I know how it's made ....
Well there was three pots, I think, one was an awful big one.
Just
out in the woods, had an old pole, and a fork in the pole laid in*it
and the lails across it. And we'd give out troughs, wooden troughs,
take . peck buckets and go around and dip it out.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Tapped the sugar trees, sugar maples.
My dad used a axe, cut a place right handy and hewed out a
little old thin strips about that wide, stuck in there and drive it
in there, you know, catch your water.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Makes a spout for the sap to run.
Sometimes it's clean, sometimes it'd just drip calmly, some
of it runs better than others.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
That boiling it down though.
I've boiled to twelve and one o'clock plenty of time.
Get
it down to pretty good syrup and bring it in home the next day or
night and boil it down to sugar.
best syrup I've ever eat.
I Hike that syrup, boy it's the
If I had a gallon I wouldn't take---wouldn't
sell it for a ten dollar bill, it'd cost more than that if a man
could get it. Dad made some for years, a little and sold it, they
was all gone, I understand it.
Q:
Did they use the sugar instead of white sugar?
A:
Mr. J.
No, sold it.
Q: How much did it bring?
&
: Mr. J.
I forget now.
Only good time was forty cents, fifty cents
a pound, thirty and forty, well the last he made he sold to a postmaster down there at old Jefferson, he got fifty or sixty cents or
more down there.
Mrs. J.
Now a---white sugar was cheaper than the maple sugar, buy
�6.
the white, would save money.
Mr. J.
Now there's a man over there on Buffalo, that would be,
he's a doctor, Sam was his name, Sao Perkins, and he tried to run it
on yarn strings, you know, to a-.-he had a outlet, you know, little
buildings where they bo He'd it down, you know,
It wouldn't run off
the hill, it'd just run a little, and just drip off, put out a lot
of money that-a-way.
Then he bought him a five-hundred or a thousand
peck buckets and had him a big trough, it was down there, and had a
hoXfe bored in there and they'd just carry it and pour it in that
trough and it run on down there where they made it, you know, they'd
catch it down there (in pots).
his buckets.
And somebody stole about every one of
I know he had five-hundred or more, ten quart buckets,
all along the row, somebody finally stole about everyone, if they
didn't
buckets.
Lord, they made hundreds of gallons of
syrup, they didn't make sugar, they just made syrup, you know, and
sold it.
Anybody with any sense a-tall would know that it wouldn't
run on yarn strings.
Q:
How about sawmilling around here?
A:
Mr. J.
That's pretty . . . .
I used to sawmill before I come to this country, I ain't
done so much since I come, well I've done some too.
1,'ve packed them
and I've rolled logs, burnt, cut the timber, ball-bust.
Mrs. J.
I ain't dome none of that, but I've cut timber.
Q:
How did you get the trees off the mountain, down to the mill?
A:
Mr. J.
Have a---easiest is by team.
Of course, I worked where
they had to ball boot them down, off of the
in Avery County some too.
River.
.
I've worked
That timber'd run eight miles up the Pigeon
But that brother seemed he was going broke so bad
two of them
one of them die"d just a while back.
twenty-seven years.
(Greg Scott)
'.ti "rr-r.-rc r:r":—i,-:':
there was
I worked for him
He sold out, bought them a truck,
�7.
went to hauling extract. Biggest extract plant that used to be down
there at Canton in the world.
used
Don't know if it's there or not, but
be there. Canton is eighteen miles, where our camp is
there.
Right on the Pigeon River.
Q: Did the railroad help any with the sawmilling?
A: Mr. J. Yes, it did. They hauled it in on trains, they got to the
right place where you loaded it. Yes, they did. And I worked
Creek where they hauled it all in for several miles.
get it off the mountain and to get on the train cars.
But you had to
Averaged
seventy-five thousand a day. Didn't matter what you taking in on
it.
That's more than they cut here in two or three months.
band mill.
That was
I handled lumber there twenty-seven feet long, twenty-
seven inches wide.
Of course, I handled most of the dry lumber,
loading cars. Old hemlock logs, splinters sticking out that far.
Had to use hand leathers and a apron here.
Hand leathers come in on
the inside of your hands here. Boy, it'd just ruin you.
Mrs. J. Ruin your hands if you got one of them hemlock splinters.
Mr. J. They cut little old "lathes," about two to two.and-a.half
inches wide and about four foot long, I think. And a eighth to a
quarter of an inch thick, and they are the hardest, and they are the
hardest things to bail. Boy, that's what they'd give a new man.
They test them out on that. Now if he could stand that, he could
stand anything.
Q:
Is this train that came down through Todd the same one that went
through Boone and up to Linville?
A: Mrs. J. No, this went back into Virginia.
Mr. J.
I don't know what they've stop that one from running
to Ashe County, have they, Jefferson, I don't think. No they had an
awful bunch out the other day. There was a string of coal here as
�8.
long as from here to that garage, just
. So big.
That's the way they get their coal in down there.
They sell it
cheaper than they do in Boone, cause they truck it in up there.
Mrs. J.
I don't know.
That train run up here a lot.
They hauled a
lot of extract back then, stuff like that.
Mr. J.
Lord, I boarded down in West Jefferson one time a while.
helped beat the first rock made them hardtops.
I
West Jefferson, Old
Jefferson, over through there.
Mrs.J.
After they took this up, the train just run from Abingdon to
West Jefferson.
Mr. J.
They used to come in, a heavy
load, there'd be two engines to it, to a load.
Why, it'd jar the whole town nearly.
It'd just chug-a-chug-&.
It would, about jar the town!
Mrs. Jones adds something which is inaudible.
0:
Did this train down here get washed out with the flood of '40?
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
No, it wasn't here then.
Taken up way back yonder.
It was took up before that time.
They discontinued it.
See that grade over there is on that grade is on railroad
grade there.
Prom Todd to Pleetwood.
it had a wide road.
Best grade in the state, if
It is, the longest stretch there in the state of
North Carolina.
Mrs. J.
W«ll, it ain't wide enough for a highway.
If it was wider,
it'd be a good road.
Mr. J.
Well, it's just twelve foot down below Brownwood, Fleetwood.
You can't hardly pass on it from there.
ThereJs places you can't.
And it's washed out, fell off like it is right over yonder all along
the highway down through there.
was a week ago, I reckon.
dangerous.
I went down there last Friday.
I'm afraid to ride on that road much.
It
It's
�9.
Q: Was the train in here during the depression, or was it stopped
before that too?
A:
Mr. J.
I don't know how long it's been took up.
It was way
before you and me was married, wasn't it? Yeah, and we've been
married for thirty-eight years.
Why it's been forty some years,
I guess.
Q: What was life like around here during the depression?
A: Mrs. J.
It was pretty tough, and pretty scrimpy.
You had to
make do with what you had.
Mr. J. Well, I lived on Three Top
worst depression
Mrs. J.
back in Ashe.
That there
that was before we was married.
. . . pulled leaves, gathered herbs--~anything to buy
what was necessary.
And the rest of it they just had to do with
what they had.
Q: What types of herbs and all did they gather?
A: Mrs. J.
Oh, they was different kinds.
wood leaves,
bark
Tfi'ey gathered beech-
, beechwood bark, and witchhazel
was what they call it. And they peeled Shawneehaw, black-
berry briar root . . . .
Mr. J. Sassafras roots . . . .
Mrs. J. Sassafras roots
fras big roots.
Shawneehaw
I've had to gather many of those sassatake out to the mountain, and pull
Shawneehaw.
Mr. J.
I've treked for a mile and a half, two mile, all I could
tie up and carry. Don't get big, really.
Mrs. J. Wild cherries, wild cherries.
Mr. J. Used to pick a lot of Balm of Gilead buds, but they got so
cheap now you can't make nothing.
Q:
How much do those herbs bring?
About thirty cents a pound.
�10.
At
Mrs. J.
pound.
Oh, some of them bring from a penny to three cents a
No, Shawneehaw or the bark from Shawneehaw root sometimes
up to eight, nine, ten cents.
Witchhazel leaves usually runs two
to three cents and the bark sometimes all the way from one to three.
Mr. J.
Beetwood leaves now bring as high as thirty-four cents or
more.
Of course, everything's so high, you can't buy nothing now.
Sold a lot of them for thirty-three or -four cents a pound.
Mrs. J.
So funny.
You could get a lot more for what little money
you did get out of the store.
Mr. J.
Anyone got that price then, they'd got rich.
I been a-buying
flour over yonder at 221, used to, 1 guess for two, three, or four
years at two dollars for Blue Ribbon.
Mrs. J.
A box of matches now cost you fifteen cents.
them here around for a .nickel.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Used to get
A big box of soda was a nickel.
Now it's $2.65.
A glass of snuff was a quarter. Plug of tobacco was---it run
about a quarter---200 to a quarter.
Q:
How about your salt?
A:- Mrs. J.
like that.
Salt run about eighty---about a cent a pound, something
We'd go buy rice.
Get rice for two or three cents a pound.
Box of Quaker Oats cost you maybe twenty to twenty-five cents.
Mr. J.
I bought some side meat for five cents before I was married
staying with my brother-in-law.
Q:
How much does it cost now?
A:
Mr. J.
Five cents a pound.
I looked down here at Jack's Grocery the other day, there's
a piece about that thick and so big
first meat, I don't know.
Seventy-five cents!
pound.
Mrs. J.
Meat's got ridiculous now.
, looks like
Seventy-five cents a
�11.
Q:
Was there a scarcity of jobs during the Depression?
A:
Mxz.J,
Mrs. J.
Yeah, it got awful scarce.
People that had anything to do, they just didn't have the
money to pay to have it done.
So they just had to do what they could
do theirselves and let the rest go.
Mr. J.
I remember two first checks or payrolls any monthly checks
I ever drawed was during the World War. I was just a boy, and wasn't
grown.
First one was $37.20 and the next one was $27.20.
Q:
What were you doing?
A:
Mr. J.
sand.
Doodling saw dust at a mill, cutting eight to ten thou-
Had a help awhile.
And I'd do that with a wheelbarrow by
myself, cutting eight and ten thousand feet lumber.
Now you talking
about a job, and that sun coming in on you. Couldn't stand it now, I
bet you. I think I got two dollars a day, I think.
Q:
Were there any government programs around here, in the Depression?
Like WPA, CCC.
A:
Mrs. J.
They had the WPA awhile.
mainly on it.
A lot of the men could work on
There was just so many people that needed work, they
couldn't work them all. But they did work some.
Mr. J.
Q:
I never did work at it, myself.
They were pretty hard days then, but do you remember any of the
good times during the Depression?
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Not too much.
I expect that all the way around many fared about as good then
as they do now. A lot of them fared just as good, if not better than
they do now. We have to work awful hard now-a-days to get by.
Back
then you had to work hard to 'get by, so you get just as much pleasure
out of it.
Mr. J.
I figure
one girl's been a-working three years, in June, out
�12.
at I.R.C.
And she's made—worked out more money than I bet I work
out in twenty years, twenty-five.
got more than I've seen of my own.
one today.
She's spent a fortune, she's still
She's got a lot of bonds, got
She's got money at the Building and Loan and at the bank,
and paid for a car.
Bought sewing machines, electric irons, and
enough to fill that car full several times.
Paid for a house, clothes,
and everything.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Q:
My iron.
We got the iron and give it to her.
That's right, you did.
But she got i1^ though.
What were the first electrical appliances you got?
A good one.
Do you remem-
ber?
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Yeah, no-no, it was an old refrigerator.
Refrigerator, and next was the washing machine.
That's it down yonder.
Kelvinator--that fellow called it
Kelvinator.
Q:
Yeah, that's what my grandmother called it.
A:
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Did you get a radio?
Yeah, we've got one.
We've got several.
Got two now, one's shot and the other
won't play at all, unless you cut it off---I
no more.
Transistor radio's what I use now.
Q:
What were some of the programs you listened to?
A:
Mr. J.
Q:
Yeah, some of the first ones.
A:
Mr. J.
On the radio?
Oh,"Amos and Andy."
Mrs. J. "Grand Ole Opry," "Amos and Andy."
Then sometimes on Sunday,
we'd get singing and preaching.
Q:
Where did y'all go to church?
A:
Mr. J.
Up here at the top of the mountain, now.
up there on Three Top, we went to Kraut.
When we lived
�13.
Q:
Was the church a pretty important part of your life when you were
growing up?
A:
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Yeah, it was.
Had to walk two or three mile off the mountain.
three-quarter of a mile nearly straight down.
them.
Paid no attention to it then.
Mrs. J.
else.
Well, there's
Big, deep snows on
That's the God's truth.
People used to really go to church better then than anytime
They got cars and they'll take off somewhere else, you know--
not stay at home.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
I walked sixteen to eighteen miles many times before . . . .
They used to---Sunday mornings would come, you'd have to get
up and work-—do what you have to do, and then get ready to go to
church, walk, and come back home.
Mr. J.
Fix you something to eat.
We'd used to ride the horses back or go in a wagon when I
was lust a boy.
know, walking.
I'd see old men coming when with the canes, you
And buggies, yeah, a lot of buggies.
I'd go, "What
in the world is the matter with that man, has to have a cane."
Blame, I've had to use one or two times, some crutches.
I've had to
use crutches.
Q:
How often did y'all have services?
A:
Mrs. J.
We usually have services once a month, a preaching service,
Sunday School every Sunday.
Q:
How about revivals?
A:
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Usually had one revival a year.
Now it's two.
And this man that runs the church, he has to
get somebody to do the preaching, so we can have two to pay now.
much money.
Too
Some type of helper, I don't care how--the pastor up
here weighs 274 pounds.
And he can preach, preach up a storm.
And
he has to get somebody else to do the preaching when we have a revival.
�14.
He's a big man.
Q:
Who is he?
A:
Mr. J.
Mr s. J.
Herbert Goodman.
Goodman.
Q:
How did that church get it*
A:
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
name?
Do you know?
No, I don't.
No, I don't know.
I've been in this country thirty-seven
years in March, I reckon.
Mrs. J.
That church has been established a long time.
I don't
know how it got its. name.
Mr. J.
Yes, that's been established maybe ninety years, I guess.
Well, they've had it a long time.
Q:
I guess Mr. Grogan up yonder would know.
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
He'd know a whole lot about it.
He might come near to telling you how long it's been/
He's been a member up there for years.
conversation about his brother.)
month.
(Tape goes into
He's got a birthday right next
He's eighty-seven or eighty-eight year old. I'll have to
look it up one of these days, in the Bible.
Bibles--tore all to pieces.
Now I mean ole-timey
Bible like that now, oh, a i n ' t a-telling
what it would bring, would it.
Mrs. J.
Yeah, those people out at the flea market offered $75.00,
didn't they?
Mr. J.
tore.
out.
There's plenty of
if it hadn't been
Two of my oldest brothers got in to it when the rest were
And they tore it all to pieces.
that big.
END OP SIDE 1
Oh, the back on it was nearly
�15.
A:
Mr. J.
That's nine years, I guess.
Got gone in ' 2 And
6.
I had to send off—my name wasn't in it.
brother had it Virginia.
Someone else had it.
My
Had to write on it there, and he sent
that pages that had his on it.
I' took it.
Don't know how I'd ever
got it that day.
Q:
Were there a lot of doctors in this area?
A:
Mr. J.
Q:
What did y'all do when you couldn't get a doctor?
A:
Mrs. J.
No.
Well, if you couldn't get one, you had to do the best
I could.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
There's one that lived up here for years.
There's one that lived right up the river here, and there's
one at'Boone that would go out on calls.
Mr. J.
He's dead now.
a good country doctor.
to.
One over on Creston---Three Top.
He was
He always went out, "hoss" back, or used
Finally got one at Todd.
Mrs. J.
Well, if you really had to have one, if you fine them at
home, well he'd go up the river here.
Mr. J,
People died then of appendicitis, and they just called it
indigestion or something; colic or something.
Yeah, it killed a
many a one, and they didn't know what was the matter with them.
Mrs. J.
Well, people used to---they wasn't no doctors around
handy, and they just had to doctor the best way they thought.
they got better, it's all right.
If
If they died, it had to be all
right, because it's all they had.
Mr. J.
They weren't experimenting like they are now.
live twenty-one days with double pneumonia.
Had a brother
Sight a man ever been
in that country.
Q:
What were some of the home remedies that your mother used?
�16.
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Used boneset
or my mother did, and catnip . . . .
Ole penny royal-— for colds or anything like that, they'd
make a tea out of penny royal.
And lots of times whenever a baby
was cross, wouldn't sleep, they'd take a catnip block, and make a
tea, and give it to the baby.
And they used camphor for other things.
Colds and colic or anything like that.
camphor in water .
Mr. J.
Give them a few drops of
.» .
We used to take two or three drops of camphor in a bowl of
milk, and give it to a baby and it'll ease him right now; or else
it used to for colic.
Mrs. J.
And for people who had chest colds or fevers, well, they'd
make a poultice from, ah, roast onions and mix sulphur or something
with them, and make a poultice and place it on their chest to break
up the fever.
Ah, there's so many of them there old remedies.
I
couldn't think of all they were.
Q:
What was sassafras tea used for?
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Yeah, people used to drink a lot of that.
Yeah, they used to drink that in the spring of the year
for a tonic.
Mr. J.
Yeah, those winters.
Mrs. J.
Yeah, and sometimes they'd drink it instead of drinking
coffee.
They'd make a tea out of it and drink it instead of coffee.
Mr. J.
It's cheaper now than coffee.
Mrs. J.
Ten ounces for a $1.75.
Back during the Depression, why, coffee was so high and
we's so low on money, we had to parch rye around here and make
coffee out of it.
Q:
Mr. Jones, you said your wife knew some of these old farm super-
stitions.
A:
Mr. J.
Could you two give me some of them?
I don't know.
I know I'd never like to plant nothing
�17.
when the moon points was up.
I don't know if there's anything
in it or not, but I never did likfe to.
I put out some onions one
time when the points were up, and I couldn't keep them in the
ground.
Mrs. J.
Superstition is a pair of cedar trees.
Little, ole cedar.
If you plant it, by the time it gets up big enough to shade a grave,
why you'll die.
Mr. J.
All kinds of stuff like that.
Why you can plant it, and my mother argued argued there was-~
something in it.
You planted corn or beans, put the heart down and
it won't hardly freeze.
And I tell you what.
You just go right
there and drop corn and beans and see if they ain't worlds of it—
lots of it ain't even hurt at all, and the other just cooked.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
I've seen some that-a-way, but I don't know . . . .
My mother tried
if she could.
she tried to plant a little on Good Friday
She always planted with the eye down, so she could
have some early beans.
something in that.
I tell you one thing, I believe there's
You can plant a whole row through there, and
there*d come a big frost there, and it'll kill some dead and won't
hurt some.
Mrs. J.
Used to plant you one to make you a few potatoes.
Plant
them about when the sun was in the moon, in the dark of the moon.
I heard once about, something about, there was a family asking when
was a good time to plant potatoes.
moon."
Told them 'bn the dark of the
So they thought that was getting out in the night time and
planting, using lanterns.
Mr. J.
You know there's a lot of people won't cut wood only at
certain times.
They won't walk after it. Yeah, they won't, at
certain times, cut their wood.
Q:
I was talking to a fellow the other day, yesterday, and he
�18.
said that he'd be putting the boards on the barn.
And if you put
them on when either the moon was growing or was full, it would bow
them out.
If the moon was shrinking, it would set them in there
tight.
A:
Mrs. J.
Well, I know there are times that you can put boards
on a barn, and them dirty things will just cup up.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
The moon points it up when it does that, I know.
And I have seen them on buildings that way where they|ve
just turned up.
Mr. J.
Ixwas madder—I couldn't even see hardly.
Those wouldn't
set in there at all.
Q:
Isn't there one about planting corn?
I think, if it's
if the
moon's full, you plant your corn, it'll grow higher.
A:
Mr.J.
Mrs. J.
No, it'll grow higher, I think, on the new moon.
I think that when the moon's new, if you plant your corn,
why it'll grow taller.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Yeah, some people plant in the moon.
Yeah, I always planted in the ground.
attention to it much.
it.
I never did payono
Wanted to plant something I always planted
Old-^people used---they used to have certain signs when they
planted everything.
You can get these here gardening books
and they still go by the signs in planting root crops, planting
you know, stuff that grows above ground.
attention to it.
I never did pay much
I just went and planted when I got ready to.
Q:
What did they use for fertilizer back yonder?
A:
Mrs. J.
Well their
the only fertilizer they used back then
was just the litter from the barn and stables, because they didn't
buy it, they didn't have it.
factured it
Well, back there I reckon they manu-
nowhere around here, where they could get it.
But they
�19.
used the litter from the barns, and in their big fields where they
put their corn or something like that, why they didn't use anything.
Most of the time, they just cleaned out new land.
They'd tend it
till it gets so it wouldn't make nothing and then they'd let it grow
up and try a new patch.
Wood land then
was
had a lot of, you know,
weeds had rotted on it so long; so long as it had lay it there.
just planted in it, after they cleaned it off.
They
But, when it wouldn't
make any more, why they'd let it change off and clear them off another
patch, and try it.
Q:
Did all the gardening with horse drawn stuff, didn't you?
A:
Well, they usually had a patch that they kept their stable litter
throwed on, that they did their gardening on.
Mite small.
My mom
and dad always used their stable litter a little on their garden.
She always had a pretty garden too.
Q:
Yeah, they didn't have tractors back then, did they?
A:
No, no, they used a team to do their plowing with, or oxen.
oxen a lot.
use a horse.
Used
And if they wanted anything cultivated, why, they had to
They have cultivated with oxen too.
I've drove oxens.
I don't like it.
Q:
How is it different from driving horses?
A:
Mrs. J.
Well, oxen can be so stubborn.
won't budge at all.
They won't budge
till they get ready to.
ever they get ready, then they'll go on.
you can make him go on.
They can just bug up and
When-
But a horse, most of the time,
One of them old oxen, when he's stuck, he's
just going to stay there til he's ready to go.
Q:
Did the farmers make the yokes for the oxen themselves?
A:
Mrs. J.
Yeah, some of them did.
knew how to make them made them.
that made them.
They used
some of them that
Maybe one person in the settlement
�20.
Q:
Did they have a blacksmith around here?
A:
Mrs. J.
Q:
Where did y'all go to school over here?
A:
Mrs. J.
at Trout.
I guess they did, I don't know where though.
Well, I went to school at Deep Gap, and he went to school
He lived back in Ashe, he's from Ashe,
Watauga County.
I went to school in Deep Gap.
I was born here in
Well, I first went to
school at the old schoo}, one room school building on
Creek.
x
And then they put the schools together and took out a lot of the one
room schools, and took out some of the county schools.
Mr. J.
seen.
I remember the first air
car and the first airplane I ever
I bet you don*t---can't remember that.
Q:
No.
Where was it?
A:
Mr. J.
Way back in Ashe County.
First airplane
(car)
I ever seen.
twelve or thirteen years old.
said, "all take a peek."
Up on what they call the "Bluff."
I was going to school---about
Went past the schoolhouse.
Rose something or another.
got to see it, it was gone out of sight.
stayed all after
Teacher
Before we all
After that he come back and
a little piece at church, I mean, schoolhouse.
We'd
go there and boy we thought that was the awfullest that had ever been.
We'd look at it, go over there, reach in it, look at that car.
Mrs. J.
I can't really remember the first car I ever seen, but 1 can
remember the first airplane I ever seen.
We were living in Virginia
at that time, and they's, gee I forget now whether there was five or
how many there was in the bunch.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Five or seven.
Went over in a bunch.
They was the first ones I can remem-
ber.
Q:
What did you think of them when you saw them?
A:
Mrs. J.
Oh, I thought that was something great.
All them airplanes,
�21.
I just don't remember the first car I ever seen.
Mr. J.
Well, I do.
Mrs. J.
I sort of remember one Dad ever bought.
He got an old
"scooter," strong armed as I am I'd run it up in the trees every time.
Q:
How much mileage did you get in those old cars?
A:
Mrs. J,
I don't really know.
I was too young really to know any-
thing about them.
Mr. J.
Didn't have any roads then.
Back in '27, with only gravel
roads, if you got thirty-five mile,you's flying.
boys taking me to see my girl.
road, and you were flying then.
I know.
One of the
Hit thirty-five mile on that old.gravel
They thought that was something.
Q:
How many miles to the gallon of gas?
A:
Mr. J.
I don't know.
There was-—according to what model it was,
I guess.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
I don't know myself . . . .
I don't remember for my life.
now.
They's quite a difference from
Now one son-in-law, he told our daughter here---he's got one of
them, I reckon you kinda call foreign made
1 reckon it's made in the
United States or it's made just like one of those foreign cars.
I
think he gets about thirty-five miles.(to the gallon)
Q:
I get about thirty-two on my Volkswagen.
age.
You were talking about courting.
That's pretty good mile-
What all did you do?
What did
you do on your dates?
A:
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Q:
I'd just go and sit all night is all I done.
We'd just sit and talk.
Stay till about eleven or twelve o' clock.
We never did go anywhere.
Go to bed.
He'd come visit, sit and talk.
I went everyday.
Did you ever go pick berries or cherries or work in the garden
�22.
together?
Mrs. J.
Mr. J.
Oh, we might have gone out together and pick cherries to eat.
They were going to clear out the pig-pen one time, but I didn't
stay long.
Mrs. J.
I come back.
I was scared of it.
I don't know, we might of got out and worked cutting cabbage
or something, anytime that we'd be a working.
Q:
Can y'all think of anything else that I haven't asked you about?
A:
Mr. J.
I don't reckon.
After you leave, I can think of a whole
lot.
Mrs. J.
Whenever a fellow's trying to think of something,
ever think of
Q:
it.
We appreciate you giving us this information.
he can't
�
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-24
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Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sam Jones, June 12, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Sam Jones was born in Deep Gap, North Carolina around the early 1900s on a farm where he grew up. He worked at a sawmill.
Mr. Jones starts the interview talking about growing up on a farm. At this point his wife joins the interview, and they begin talking about berry-picking and produce. Mr. Jones also talks about working at the sawmill and the importance of the railroads in transportation. They both talk about their experiences with the Great Depression including topics of picking herbs, working, and church. Mr. and Mrs. Jones discuss the lack of doctors in the past and different home remedies they used. To end the conversation, the two recall the first time they saw a car and airplane.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
McNeely, Mike
Jones, Sam
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/12/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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22 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape84_SamJones_1973_06_12M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Todd, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County
Sawmill workers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--20th century--Anecdotes
berry picking
Deep Gap
dried fruit
farming
Great Depression
herbs and roots
home rememdies
livestock
maple syrup
railroad
Sam Jones
sawmill
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/7ed2a84c36978151df1164a8014b178d.pdf
6ec651ae55e6586851b3fe1eda47ff4e
PDF Text
Text
This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History Project with Mrs.
Lelia Watson of Taylorsville, North Carolina. Mrs, Watts is my great aunt and
has lived in Taylorsville her whole life. The interview is by Mike McNeely
on June 9, 1$>73.
Qs Where and when were you born?
A: I was born in Taylorsville, February 10, 1883.
Q: Who were your parents?
Af
Fate Sloop and Luna Thompson Sloop.
Qj Okay, and your brothers and sisters?
A: Well, Ada Norris was my oldest one, then I come next, then Bertha Stevenson
next, and then Nell Sloop next. She's the last one,
Qs
Okay. What did your daddy do?
As
He was a carpenter.
Q: Carpenter. Did ya'll have a farm or anything?
As
Tes, he had a small farm out west here,
Qs With four girls in the family, who did the work on the farm?
At
Yeah, four girls - no, we didn't work on the farm we went to school and then
when we were old enough, Ada and myself got jobs in the store. We clerked in
the store until I married.
Q: I'm interested in the farm. >Jiat all did your daddy grow on the farm? Do
you remember?
As
Well, corn principally. And then garden. We had a garden with just vege-
tables in it, but on the farm we just raised corn.
Q: Did you have any livestock?
A: We had one horse. Yeah, how I did dread to work on the farm.
Q: What all did you have to do?
As
Hoe it, cut out weeds.
Q: You didn't have any tractors or anything back then, did you?
As
No, everything was done by horses.
�Q: Did your daddy have a plow?
Ai
Yes, he had a plow.
Q: What else did he have? Did he have a sled or anything he pulled behind it?
A: He had plows and hoes, and everything else that goes with a farm, you
know.
Q: Did you have any cows or any chickens?
As We had some chickens, but just a few.
Qt You didn't have telephones back then either, did you?
At
No, we didn't have telephones, and all the transportation we had was the
buggy, °r wagon, or walking,
Q: How often did you visit your relatives that didn't live in Taylorsville
that you had to go see?
A: Yes, we had some around Moravian Falls.
Q: Did you see 'em often?
A: No, not often.
Q: Okay, could you describe a particular day or a typical day on your farm?
What did you do when you were real small? What chores did you have to do?
A: While I lived at home, before I was married? Well, my father plowed up
something, we discovered it was an Indian pot! Yes, it was. The farm had
been an Indian camping ground out there, and he plowed up this pot. I don't
know who has it, your mother has it. Well, that is all that I can think of
that happened that was exciting that day. We were all excited over it , of
course.
In fact, we thought we'd find something more, but we didn't, just the
pot was all.
Q: Do you remember any stories that your daddy may have told you about the Indians V around here or do you remember any legends?
A: No, I don't remember any my daddy ever told. I can't think of them right now.
�Q: You know some stories about the Civil War though, don't you?
A: Well, Grandpa Sloop used to tell me something about the Civil War, but he
was a bushwacker. He was a bushwacker. And one day Harold asked me what was
a wackin1 the bushes. He heard that my grandfather was wackin1 the bushes
during the war. And he asked me what was wacking the bushes. And I said he
was bushwacker that was a hiding in the woods to keep from going to the war*
Then grandmother would tell me about the Yankees coming in and taking all her
corn out of the cribs, taking all her vegetables. When she has four children,
small children, they didn't leave them anything to eat what-so-ever.
Qt
Aunt Lelia was the lady who made the distress signal of the Eastern Star
to the men uptown* Didn't the come down to Aunt Mag's house and keep the
Yankees from taking her ham or something?
As
I can't remember that.
Q: Momma used to tell us about that»
A: Well, maybe therejs, I can't remember that.
Q: You said that later on you and your sister worked in the store...
A: Store. She worked in the dry good store for Thad Campbell, and I worked
in the furniture store for Uncle Jeff Allen. He ran the furniture store and
he had a lumber plant. I worked in there for him, and was working there when
I was married.
Q: Were you married before or during the Depression?
As
I was married in 1 0 |
9i.
Qs
That was about twenty-six years before the Depression.
Do you remember
the Depression?
At
Well, yes, very well. Yes, I do!
Qi
How did it change your life or what did you have to do?
As
Well, we just had to do without things that we really wanted.
�*At this point of the interview, a neighbor walks in and leaves a package.
Q:
Tell us about some of the hardships you had to go through during the
Depression?
A: Well, we had to do without sugar, we couldn't get sugar. They were...
Mr. Burgess across on the other street ran a cane mill, and we sweetened most
everything with molasses. We couldn't get sugar, and of course, Grandpa had
a few bee gums.
Wte had a little honey sometimes, but not very often.
Mostly
our sweets were molasses during that time,
Qj
You didn't have the money to buy stuff from the store much, did you?
A: No.
Q: What all did you have to make at home to make up for this?
A: We had to make everything we wore, nearly.
Q: How did you get the cloth to make that?
A: Well, our father purchased it somewhere, I don't know where.
Q: Did you wear a lot of hand-me-downs?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: How long would an average dress last? How many children would it have to
go through?
As
Well, I don't know, T-e'd usually buy one dress a piece, a winter dress.
And that would last us all winter to go to church and Sunday School. Well,
then in the spring, we 'd store it and buy a summer dress which would have to
last us until fall. We get out the fall one and wore it several years.
Qt
You really had to make things last, didn't you?
Ai Xes, we did. It's different now, because I have to stand and look in the
closet for some thirty minutes to decide which dress to wear to Sunday School
nowo But times are different*
Q: During the Depression was the church mere the center of the community
�activities?
A:
Yes.
Q: Were there a lot of things that went on there?
A: Well, a good many. The church could buy such sugar and flour. The
flour was pretty rotten though, wasn't much good. But the church would get
that and then they would distribute it among the more needy. If they thought
you had any, they wouldn't give you any.
Q:
You couldn't have any surplus then.
You didn't have a real means of transportation, so what did you do for re-
creation around that time?
As
Well, I don't know. We went to Sunday School and church on Sunday, and
prayer meeting on Wednesday night. That's about all we had then.
Q:
Did you have a lot of community sings?
A: Not many.
Q:
How about the women? Did they get around and quilt?
As
No, well, some of them did, the church did.
They had quilts that members
would get together in the afternoons and quilt for the needy.
Q:
Did you have a lot of covered dish suppers or anything?
A: No, we didn't have any of those. We didn't have a kitchen in our church.
I can't tell you how many years we've had a kitchen in our church, but for
then we didn't serve the church.
Q: The Depression was a really hard time, but do you remember any of the
good days in the Depression?
As
fhere weren't any good ones.
Qs
Surely you can remember something good in the Depression?
A: Well, I can't recall it right now. Well, it m£ght have been good for us
in a way, but we couldn't see it right then,
Qs
Did it bring the families closer together or did it tend to pull them a-
�part?
A: Well, some families it did and some it separated. Some couldn't make it
together.
Q: Well, Earlier you said you and your sister went to school. Would you describe the school that you went to for me?
At
Yes, Professor White was our teacher. Professor Sharp was our teacher and
we were mostly in one room. He had most of the classes and he was a wonderful,
good old feller, but he was pretty strict. He didn't allow no courtin1 a going
on in his school. No! And sometimes we'd get together, you know, and he'd be
gone to his lunch, and when we'd see him a coming, we could see him a comin1,
why we'd disperse, we'd get out.
Qj What were some of the subjects you were taught?
A: Up to the seventh grades is as far as we wento
Qj What did you have to learn?
Aj Well, we had grammar, physiology, arithmetic, reading, and spelling.
Qj Did you have that little blue book, the Noah Webster Book?
As
No, we didn't have the blue-back speller. We had, I don't know what the
name of it was* I did have an old blue«-back speller here, but somebody stole
it.
Q: We found it today at Aunt Cat's. We found a lot of old things out there.
How many people were in the school? Do you remember?
A: Oh, my goodness, I couldn't tell you that. How many?
Everybody ±n the
county went to this one school then.
Q: Really, and it was one room?
A: Well, it was more than one room, but there were several teachers* Miss
Aussie Poole taught one room, Professor Sharp taught one, Professor White
taught two or three, and Miss Payne, I believe, taught toward the last that I
�went.
Q: What were the age groups of the kids? Were they all thirteen years old
or did they range from six to eighteen or something?
At
Around sixteen.
Qt
The average age?
At
Yes.
Qt
how long during one year did you go to school? Did you go a full nine
months?
At
^fes, we went full time.
Qs
How many years?
At
I don't know..My dad said that he wasn't able to send us to higher school.
Momma died when I was eight years old.
My oldest sister was twelve, Bertha was
six, and Nell was three, and he was left with us four girls here to raise. We
had it pretty tough.
Qt
Did you have any dances or anything at your schools?
At
Yeah, we had parties. l<foen we'd have a party, everybody in town was in-
vited. It's different now. They just have it in groups. But back then, when
anybody had a party, he invited everybody.
Qs What all happened at these parties? T^hat did you do?
At
Well, we played games and danced,
Qt
What types of dance^do you remember?
At
No. The twist, I think (assarted laughter) was the most thing I think we
could dance. Mostly just games different things, dorpping the handkerchief,
and weaving the thimble, and things like that, you know.
Qt
What type of music did you have to dance to?
At
We had a piano.
Qt
Did you. have someone who could really play it?
�At
Well, yes. We had it at a place where they had a piano. They could play
it, but if they didn't they could dance to that. Jeff Fortner had a French
harp. He blowed the French harp and we danced by it a lot. Jeff Fortner, he's
still living lives in Florence, South Carolina.
I was real sick one time, I
had neuralgia of the heart, and the doctor tole pappa not let anybody come in
my room atall and to be very quieto And Jeff come out to see me that evening
and the girls in the kitchen told him what the doctor had said. He said "Well
I'm going in there and peep at her anyway." Ao he came in there with his French
harp, "Home Sweet Home", and I was kind of doped, you know. When I woke up,
I didn't know whether I was in heaven or not. I thought that was the sweetest
music I'd ever heard.
Q:
You mentioned a doctor right then. How many doctors were in this area,
back when you were little?
At
Well, there was I reckon, Dr. Carson. I can remember Dr. Carson.
Q:
How about Dr. Crowson, when did he come?
Ai
Well he didn't come until later.
Q:
And Dr. Edwards?
As
Yeah, later.
Qs
Was medicine pretty plentiful?
Could the doctors get hold of it or did
people have to resort to making their own medicines?
A:
No. We usually had to go after him, ride a mule or horse. Dr. Carson had
a horse. Everybody knew his horse every where. It's like it is now. If the
ambulance goes out, everybody goes to the porch and wonders where it's going and
so forth. Well, when Dr. Carson would, we'd hear his horse's hoofs coming. We
knew it was Dr. Carson, and we'd all go to see where he was going to see who
was sick. There wasn't any telephone.
They couldn't do like they can now<> There
weren't any radios.
Q:
Did your mother use any wild herbs or anything for medicine?
�At
Yeah, She had a lot of wild herbs*
Q:
What did she use?
As
Well, sage,rue, and sweet basil.
Q:
What were some of the remedies?
A:
Well, I don't know. The sweet basil and the sage were used in meats, pre-
serving meatso They were the flavor for the meats. The rue. I don't know what
it was fors because if you touched it it made a blister, I guess.
Qt
You said you used that to preserve meats. How did:you preserve your other
foods?
A:
Well, we didn't you mean preserve it. . . how?
Q:
You didn't have a refrigerate^ or freezers or anything. What did you do?
A:
Well, we usually hung our milk in the well. We had a rope and a bucket,
and we'd hang it in the well. If we had butter or something like that, we'd
put it in a different bucket in the well. Then when we!d get ready to eat, we'd
draw them buckets up and drink our milk and eat our butter. But it was good
from the well. It kept very good.
QJ
How about your fruits and vegetables? Did you can or dry any?
As Yeah, we canned them and dried the most of 'em.
Qs
What are some of the things you dried?
A:
Well, apples , peaches, sweet potatoes. We dried most everything except
we'd can a few peaches.
Q:
You did a lot of canning and drying and stuff like that before electricity
came around right?
As
Yeah, well* we didn't have electricity for a long, long time.
Q:
When did it come into this area?
A:
Well, I don't know a just the date. I can't remember what date it was,
Q:
Do you remember around the « was it before or after the depression?
�10
A:
Oh, it was after the depression.
Q:
Was it before World War II?
A:
Yes, it was before World War II.
Q:
When did you get your first radio. Do you remember that? Was it long after
electricity had come in?
At
Well, I can't remember the first radio we had.
At
I do, 1932 because I listened to "Little Orphan Annie."
At
'32, well, she's gotta better head on her that I have.
Qt
How about your first car. Do you remember that?
At
Yes, I remember that, it was a Buick, yes. We lived on the farm* That was
after I was married. We lived on a farm, and Carl told me and the boys, if we'd
work good that summer and raise a crop of tobacco, why he'd buy us a car. So
the first crop of tobacco that we raised on our farm we used to buy a car with
it, a Buick. From Carl Offfs pa.
Qt
When the first cars came out, there weren't a lot of gas stations around
here. What did you do?
At
Well, we had one that we went to all the tine. It was one station we went
to most all the the time. Boys got it, Carl and I didn't.
Q:
Did you travel a lot more when you got your car?
As
Well, I didn't, because Carl wanted me to learn how to drive to take the
boys to schoo. We came into town one evening, we lived on a farm, and he had
me driving back. Just before we got to the garage, he'd made a new garage, but
he'd Just set the back end of it up, you know. He said "Now put your foot on
the brakes" and I slammed them on the gas and I just went through that down
through the field with that back of the sarace on top of my car, and 1 never
tried it any more. And Carl, when he started, when he'd want to slow up, he'd
hollar "Whoa! Whoa!". I think of a lot of little things that happened that way,
�11
but I wouldn't want to live my life over again.
Qs
Is there any area, though, if you could change it, or if you could go back
and live it over. Is there an area during your life you'd want to go back?
At
I can't think of any.
As
Yeah, when Sam and I were little.
As
Well, maybe, but they'd give a world of trouble. I don't know, I can't
recall a space in my married life that I'd love to live over. There's a lot I
wouldn't want to live over and I said the saddest time I ever had was when Sam
was killed. The happiest time that I ever had was when I saw Harold baptised.
Qs
That really meantrft lot to you? What's your philosophy of life?
A:
Well, I don't know what I would name.
Qs
Well, here you are ninety years old. What's make you live this long?
As
Well, I don't know. The Bible says that if you obey your parents you'll
live long. Well, I had to obey mine, for he was so strict on me, I had to.
I
can't—it might be some devil that I've loved in my past that I'm having to be
punished for.
Q:
Do you think hard work-
As
Yes, hard work had something to do with it.
I really worked hard in my
life.
Qs
Well, is there anything I haven't covered that you would like to tell us.
As
Don't think there is. You could ask me what my hobby was.
Qs
Okay, what's your hobby?
As
Cooking.
Qs
You cook for everybody in town, don't you?
As
Well, everybody that comes in eats a little something with me. I just love
to cook. I'll stand and roll our pie crust a half a day, and put them in the
freezer in till tomorrow, you know.
�12
But that's my hobby, cooking. If I'm sick, feel drowsy, or bad I go to the
kitchen and start cooking. I forget all about it and come our alright.
Q:
I noticed you'be got a wood stove in there and an electric one. Which
one do you like better?
A:
Wood stove,
Qs
Why?
As
Well, I don't know. I can cook everything on it at one time and the electric
I just have to turn a burner on here and a burner on there. I just make a fire
in the stove and it heats all over inside. Bake my pies in there. I don't bake
cakes in there, but I bake my pies in there. You should eat a piece of my banana bread before you leave to believe what I told.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-24
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Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Lelia Watson, June 9, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Lelia Watson was born in Taylorsville, North Carolina on February 10, 1883.
Ms. Watson talks about growing up on a farm. She also discusses the Great Depression and the lifestyle changes it brought. She then recollects memories from her childhood such as what is was like going to school and the new inventions from her youth like cars and airplanes. She also recalls her grandfather telling stories of the Civil War.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
McNeely, Mike
Watson, Lelia
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/9/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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12 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape70_LeliaWatson_1973_06_09M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Taylorsville, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Taylorsville--20th century
Taylorsville (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Mountain life--North Carolina--Taylorsville--History--20th century--Anecdotes
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Taylorsville
Civil War
farming
Great Depression
schoolhouse
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d0485fd74f5e05df52012b3553c39d89.pdf
b00bf27a59c06c4a8346d18fd3cd95d9
PDF Text
Text
1.
This is an interview with Walter Culler for the Appalachian Oral History
Project by Donna Clawson at Rainbow Trail Road on June 11,1973.
Q: Grandpa Culler, where were you born?
A: I was born in Boone.
Q: What was the year you were born?
A: 1882.
Q: 1882. Where were your parents born.?
A: My father was born in Wilkesboro. And I declare, honey, I don't know where
my mother was born at.
Q: What were your parents' names?
A: John.
John Culler.
Q: What was your mother's name?
A: Nancy.
Q: Who was she before she married?
A: She was a Beach.
Q: When did your father come to Boone?
A: I declare, honey, I don't know.
Q: How many brothers and sisters did you have?
�2.
A: I had five sisters. I had five sisters and four boys.
Well, they was six
boys but two of them died in infancy.
Q: Have you lived in Watauga County all your life?
A: All my life.
Q: How long did you go to school?
A: Honey, I couldn't tell you how long I went to school.
Q: How rnany months out of the year did you go when you were going to school?
A: How many months in school?
Oh, about three months.
Q: How many different parts of Watauga County have you lived in?
A: I've lived all my years in Boone Township except five years I lived in
Watauga Township.
Q: When was it that you moved to Watauga Township?
A: I declare, honey, I don't know what year it was.
Q: Was that after you were married?
A: Yeah, yeah.
It was after all the children were born that I moved over there.
I went over there when they had that big works over there. That big timber
works over there, you know. I went over there. We stayed over there five
years. Then we came back here, down in the holler down there, to take care
of my wife's daddy and mother. We took care of them.
�3.
Q: When you were a young boy did your family grow your own food?
Did you
live on a farm?
A: Yes, we lived on a farm.
All my childhood days, we lived on a farm.
Q: What kind of work did you have to do around the farm?
A: Oh well, different kinds of work. We done all the farming.
Planted potatoes,
corn, and rye and wheat, like that cabbage.
Q: What was your biggest money-making crop?
A: Well, our biggest money-making crop was corn.
Q: Where did you sell it?
A: We didn't sell it.
We used it.
We never sold no corn. We just made enough
for us to live on. That's what we had to live on then.
living on our farms.
here.
We had to make our
On, we'd go to the store and buy what we couldn't make
W e ' d go to the store and buy that.
But what we could make on the farm,
why, we'd use that.
Q: What kinds of jobs have you had throughout your life?
A: Well, my biggest job I've had throughout my life was a carpenter.
Q: I've seen some of your work.
A: Last house I built was Joe Miller's house down there.
house I built.
Except this one.
I built this one.
That's the last
�Q: Have you been a carpenter most of your life?
A: Most of my life I've been a carpenter.
Q: Have you ever had a hard time getting a job?
A: No. I never had a hard time getting a job.
Q: Can you see any way that work has changed over the years?
A: Yes.
Q: What ways are they?
A: Well, I don't know, honey, hardly what to tell you about that. Of course
the carpenter work has changed a whole lot from what it used to be, you know.
Used to, we just had to do it all by these here (indicates his hands) you know,
just main strength. Now they got that machinery, you know, and they can do
most of that work with that machinery now. We didn't have that then. We just
had to do all that work with our hands.
Q: What year did you get married?
A:
The year 1900.
Q: What was Granny Culler's name before she married you?
A: What was her name?
Q: Wasn't she a Hodges?
�5.
A: Yeah, fa Hodges. Minerva Hodges.
Q: Where was she from? Was she fromaround here too?
A: She was born over on Meat Camp.
Q: How many children did you have?
A: We had five.
One little girl died when she was twenty months old.
Q: What are your children's names?
A: The oldest one's Vance, then Tracy, then James, and then the little girl
that died, and Beulah.
Q: Do you remember how much schooling your children had? Did they go
to school mic h?
A: No, they just got a common school education. Back then, we just had about
three months of school a year, you know.
Q: Do you think children are brought up the same way now that they were
when you were bringing up your children?
A: No, I don't.
Q: What ways are different about the way they're brought up?
A: Well, the difference is that then children would do just exactly what their
parents said to do, and now the children do about what they want to do. We had
to obey our parents, and if we didn't we got a whooping for it.
�Q: You don't see too much of that anymore, do you?
A: Don't see much of that anymore.
Q: That's right.
Can you remember any of the disasters around this area,
like the 1916 flood?
A: No, not that I know of.
Q: Or the one in 1940?
A: I don't remember that, about what time it was.
flood through here in the 1940's.
didn't put them down.
They was a right smart
I can't remember the dates or nothing. I
I don't allow nobody did.
Q: I guess you weren't affected by the flood too much then, were you?
A: No, we wasn't affected by them.
The greatest flood that we've had here
was the time it washed those folks away down the other side of the mountain,
a few years back.
I've got the history of it here.
A woman wrote it down there
and had it printed in a book and I've got one of them.
Q: What kind of churches have been in this area, like were they mostly one
kind or the other?
A:
Most of the churches, back in my time, was Baptist.
Boone , lived in Boone till I was twelve years old.
I was born in
Then my father bought a piece
of land back here on the mountain and we moved back there then.
there when I was married, 1900.
I was living
�7.
Q: Do you think that the churches today are the same that they were when you
were younger?
A: No.
Q: How are they different now?
A: Well, the difference between now and then is the difference between the
members of the church attending the church.
Back then, if you didn't attend
that church why you went out. Now, they can just do what they please and
stay in church.
You had to obey those church rules.
They was strict on it.
Throw you out if you didn't obey them.
Q: What are some of the things that people got thrown out of church for doing?
A: Well, most of the people, honey, got thrown out of the church for non-attendance.
Those church rules said, the Baptist church rules now, I don't know nothing
about them other churches.
But in a Baptist church the rules said if you miss
three meeting times they'll come and see you. And what's the matter, and if
you ain't able to attend the church you're free.
can't attend it, why you was free of that.
Or if something happens that you
But you didn't stop going just
cause you didn't want to go, they'd tell you now next meeting time if you
ain't there we're going to turn you out. And if you wasn't there, out you went.
See how strict them rules was back then? If we used them no they wouldn't
be nobody in the church would they?
Q: What about things like cussing and lyingchurch for things like that?
Did people get thrown out of
�A: Yeah, yeah.
Throw you out for lying.
You had to walk those church rules
if you stayed in there.
Q: Do you think that made a better church, for people to obey the rules?
A: Yeah. When we disobey them church rules we're disobeying what that
Book says. I've read that Book through five times.
Q: I'm sure you've lived it too.
A: I've tried to.
Q: Was there any way,to get back in the church after you got thrown out?
A: Oh, yes.
You go back there and make your acknowledgement to the church,
why they'd forgive you and take you back.
If they hadn't, it wouldn't of been
according to the Bible. God'11 forgive us for our disobedience if we'll come
and ask Him to.
If we ask Himwith a repentant heart. Just go and tell I'm
going to do this, that, and the other. He won't pay any attention to that. You
come to Him and repent about what you've done and then He'll forgive you and
you can go back to the church.
Put you back in the church.
Q: Do you know how this community got its name, Rainbow Trail Road? Do
you know how that name came about?
A: Well, it's been Rainbow Trail for, let's see, about I guess twenty years ago.
It was Rainbow Trail Road when I came back fromShulls Mills when I lived
overthere, I came back over here to take care of my wife's daddy and mother.
They were building this old railroad went around here where they got that
�9.
timber out up in here, you know. And they called it Rainbow Trail because of
that train coming in here. That's been about twenty years ago.
Q: How has this community changed over the years?
A: Oh well, the community has changed a whole lot.
There was nobody living
here then, much. Nobody lived past, Gov Lane, they lived right down in a
house down in the woods there. That was about all the folks that lived here
except my wife's daddy andmother.
They lived down in the holler down here.
When we moved in here, that was about all.
know if they lived in here then.
And Ed Hardy's, let's see, I don't
I don't know if his father lived in here when
we moved in or not. I believe he did. He had a little log house right down
there. But that's about all the houses tkoAt were in here then.
Q: How did you get around back in those days?
A: Oh, we went by wagon or horseback. We went afoot most of the time. Didn't
have nothing to go in.
Q: Can you remember the first car you saw?
A: No, honey, I don't know what year it was.
But the first car I saw was in
Boone. And that car was built like a hack. I don't know whether you ever seen
an old hack or not.
Q: I don't know either.
A: Big old hack, pulled by horses. It was made just in the shape of that. And
�10.
it had, the motor was in thefront end. Of course the motor's in the front end
of a car yet.
But the motor was in the front end, and they had a chain belt
then, that would run from that motor back to that back axle back there. And
it backed around that axle there and had little places on it for them chain makes a
hook in. And when they started why that got to going and rolled that hind wheel.
Course the hind wheel is what rolls now. But it was a lot like a chain belt.
And it went about as fast as a horse could trot. That's the first car I ever seen.
Q: They'll go a lot faster now, won't they?
A: _,Oh Law, yes. A mile a minute now.
Q: Wherewere most of the roads? Can you remember the main roads that
were around here?
A: No, I don't.
Q: What about railroads?
You just mentioned the one that ran through here.
Were there any more railroads in the area?
A: No.
Q: Was that used just mainly to take the lumber back and forth?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember when that railroad was built?
A:
It was built about 1921, cause I came back here in 1922 from Shulls Mills,
�11.
and that railroad was, they had just built it when I came back here. Because when
I came back here they were hauling those logs out of this country and back away
back in here plumb back to Rich Mountain back yonder to the Bald.
They went
plumb back there and got all that timber in there and hauled it out here. When
I come back here I worked on this old railroad here.
They had a bunch of
hands stayed on it all the time to keep it fixed up, you know,
-"-nd I worked with
that. That was 1922 when I come back here. That's when that old railroad
was built.
Q: How much did you get paid for working on the railroad?
A: Oh, we got about a dollar a day.
Q: I guess it was hard work, wasn't it?
A: No, it wasn't too hard a work. Three or four of us worked on it,
and the boss man along with us.
ride from place, to place on it.
on it; we just pushed it along.
you know,
We had a little old car we kept on the road to
We just had to push it.
We didn't have no power
Going downhill we'd all jump on that thing and
ride down. We kept the presses all fixed up so they wouldn't have a wreck or
something.
Q: Are you interested in politics of any kind?
A: Yeah. (Laughter)
Q: Do you remember any elections in the past? Any that stood out in your
mind maybe?
�12.
A: Well, I don't know. I know a right smart about the elections.
There's some
I remember but don't know what I could say about them.
Q: Can you remember anything about local elections, like county elections for
sheriff, and the county officers and things like that?
A: Well, I don 't know that I could. You know, when I first got to vote, the
first time ever I voted, why the Democrats held this county, you know, for
years and years. My generation was all Democrats and we all voted a Democrat
ticket.
Yeah, the Democrats held this county here for I don't know how long.
I guess fifteen^or twenty years.
Q: When was that? Do you remember the years that they held power?
A: I don't remember the years.
Q: Do you think politics today are dirtier than they were in the past?
A: Yeah, they're dirty now. They're dirty. On both sides.
Q: How do you think they're dirtier now?
A: Well, I think one thing, the main thing about them being dirty is trying
to buy people over and such stuff like that you know. My generation was all
Democrats.
My grandfather was a Democrat. And all our generation was.
My grandfather lived to be 128.
Q: My goodness! He had a long life, didn't he?
Did he live around here?
A: He was born and raised in Orangeburg, South Carolina.
He came to Williies
�13.
County when he was forty years old.
He rode from South Carolina on horseback
to Wilkesboro. He came to Wilkesboro when he was forty years_old and married
a woman there in Wilkesboro.
He wasn't married till he was forty years old.
He stayed there a while and then he moved to Boone and spent the rest of his
life here. Well, the last few days of his life he spent, he went back down to
Wilkesboro.
But he spent most of his life in Watauga County.
Q: What was his name?
A: Benjamin. Benjamin Culler.
Q: Why did he leave Orangeburg and go to Wilkesboro?
A: I don't know. Now his father, his
niother was a German, his father was
an Englishman. His father died when he was six years old.
then, you know, had a bunch of niggers.
It was slave time
He had 640 acres of land there, his
father did, in Orangeburg, South Carolina.
Course he come over from the old
country there and when they come over in that time they gave them so much
land.
They gave him 640 acres, his father. His father died when he was six
years old, and there was another boy and a girl, that's all.
Three of them.
Grandfather, and Uncle Frank, and Aunt Frances. That's all the children there
was.
He came there to Wilkesboro. He stayed there a while and then he married a
woman there and came on to Watauga County. Now after I was big enough to
know anything a 'tall about it, there was a Clarence Glover, a lawyer in Orangeburg,
South Carolina, wrote Granddad a letter and said, "Your brother and your
sister's dead, and they weren't ever married, they didn't have no children. "
�14.
And he said, "I want you to come down here now and take charge of this land.
This 640 acres. " Granddad never did go down there. Now that 640 acres of
land down in Orangeburg would of made the Cullers all rich, wouldn't it?
Q: It might have.
A: He didn't even go down there to see about it.
Q: Well, do you know what ever happened to the land?
A: No, honey, I don't know.
Q: When somebody in your family got sick, what could you do for them?
Could
you get them to a doctor?
A: Well, we had different doctors.
oh, I couldn't mention them all.
We had a Dr. Council and Dr. Reeves, and
That old Dr. Council was the first doctor they
was in Boone, over there. And then Dr. Reeves came there, I don't know how
many years Dr. Reeves stayed there.
There's been so many doctors in there
I can't remember them now. But old Dr. Council was the main doctor there in
the time of the Civil War.
Q: Do you remember any stories about the Civil War that you heard your parents
tell about or anything?
A: No, honey. I don't know nothing about that. Only the time they came here
to Boone, you know, and shot up Boone, down there. Killed three people there.
I've heard them tell about that. I didn't know anything about it though. That was
before I was born.
But I've heard an old soldier that lived here, old man Max
�15.
Norris over yonder, he was one of the soldiers, I've heard him tell about it.
They killed one or two of them there too.
Boone cemetery, over there.
I saw them buried over there at the
That was the North against the South, the Civil
War.
Q: Do you remember hearing about any badmen or outlaws, any stories about
any of them ?
A: No, I don't honey.
Q: I heard people mention Clarence Potter and Boone Potter. Do you
remember anything about them?
A: Oh, yeah.
I knowed about Clarence Potter and Boone Potter.
they killed him.
Clarence Potter, they tried him in the court here at Boone
for killing a man, and sentenced him to be electrocuted.
hun him.
Boone Potter,
I don't really know.
I reckon maybe they
And he took an appeal to the Supreme Court for
a new trial. And they granted him a new trial and the next trial he was clear.
And then after that they had him in court up yonder again for throwing a rock
through a man's window, over there in Pottertown where he live, you know. And
the same judge that was there, when he come to trial for throwing that rock, the
same judge was there that gave him the sentence to be electrocuted. And when they
called him up there, the judge said, "Clarence, I convicted you to be electrocuted,"
And he said, "They pardoned you. The governor pardoned you. " And he said,
"Now you're right back here before me for throwing a rock in a man's window. "
And Clarence just got up there and said, "Judge, your Honor, " he said, "I
never killed that man. " The judge said, "You didn't ?" "No," he said, "I
didn't." The judge said, "Who killed him then? " He said, "Boone Potter killed
�16.
him. " "Why didn't you tell it?"
Says, "I was afraid to.
Boone would a killed
me if I'd a told it! " See, he suffered all that time. He stayed in jail now while
he was trying to make his appeal to the Supreme Court.
two months, till his other trial came along.
Tried him again and he come clear.
you know.
He stayed in jail forty-
They was going to try him again.
Yeah, he come clear. Told who done it,
Judge said, "Why didn't you tell it?" Said, "I was afraid to. Boone
would kill me if I told it. " But they finally killed Clarence.
him.
there.
Had up a watch for
Took a bunch of deputy sheriffs or sheriffs or deputies or something over
Send plumb iover thereto get him.
Clarence put up a fight with them
and shot them and finally they shot him and killed him,
Q: Were there any other outlaws or badmen in this area?
A: No, not that I know of right around close here.
Q: When somebody got sick or something, did you use some cures?
A: I guess we used some cures.
Mulligan tea.
Homemade cures.
Make catnip tea for colds,
And different things for hoarseness, you know.
Something like
that.
Q: Did the cures work?
A: Yeah.
Q: DCF you remember any folk tales or legends from around this area?
A: No, I can't.
�17.
Q: What about mysteries? Can you think of anything that happened that never
was solved?
A: Well, no.
Q: What about superstitions and things like that, like planting in the signs and
all that kind of stuff?
Did you go by that?
A: Well, yeah, people went by those signs. Went by signs of the moon, and so
on like that.
Most people way back then, you know, would wait till the moon got
in a certain place before they'd plant a crop or something like that.
Q: Do you know if there's any difference in courting or sparking today than
what there was when you were growing up?
A: Well, I don't know. I guess there is a difference now. Looked after
them more than they do now.
Q: When you were courting how did you get to your girlfriend's house?
A: I walked.
Q: Then did you just stay around her house?
A: Yes.
We walked to church then, you know. Some folks had horses, they
rode horseback.
Most of us poor mountain folks here, we had to walk to church.
Q: How far did you have to walk?
A: The farthest ever we had to walk, I guess was about two miles.
Some people
�18.
had to walk more than that. Where we lived in my boyhood time we went to church,
and we lived about two miles from the church house.
Q: Did you do that in the winter and all through the snow?
A: Oh, yeah.
We didn't care about the snow. We went right on.
Q: There's a lot of people that wouldn't go now if they had to do that.
A: That's the truth. Snow was so deep, why we'd take something along with us
and come back that evening. Course the most of us then had to walk.
have no other way of going.
know.
We didn't
Some people had horses. They could ride, you
But we didn't have horses.
Q: Are there any preachers that stand out in your memory?
Can you remember
any of the names ?
A: Yes, I can remember nearly all of them.
Uncle Ed Greene, he was the
pastor of Doe Ridge Church. And he was pastor of Howards Creek Church for
a long time. I don't know much about any of the other churches.
all the churches we ever went to.
Doe Ridge and Howards Creek.
That's about
Oh, we'd go
once in a while to Rich Mountain. I don't remember any of the pastors' names
there.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-18
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Title
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Interview with Walter Culler, June 11, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Walter Culler was born in Boone, North Carolina in 1882 and grew up on a farm. He lived in Watauga County his entire life and made his living in carpentry.
Mr. Culler begins his interview discussing his childhood on the farm. Mr. Culler talks about transportation in the past like cars and the railroad. To end the interview, Mr. Culler recollects the stories he heard of Boone outlaws.
Creator
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Clauson, Donna
Culler, Walter
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/11/1973
Rights
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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18 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape69_WalterCuller_1973_06_11M001
Spatial Coverage
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Boone, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--19th century
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--19th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--19th century--Anecdotes
Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--20th century--Anecdotes
carpentry
farming
outlaws
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/ab8686b5fb4497ba70bd4c6b5182c071.pdf
074f931fb93d3313700b2501b715bc84
PDF Text
Text
This is an interview with Ruby Trivette for tLe Appalachian
Oral History Project by Bill Bullock on February 17, 1973.
A:
As far back as I can remember when I was a child and lived
—
I was born in Ashe County, about 20 miles, no, about 15 miles
from here; and the family moved to the present location when I
was 5 years old.
My grandparents lived within sight and I can
remember going to my grandparents' home as a child and being
homesick.
I wanted to go home, and being unable to say "home"
or to make that distinction known, I was told I always said,
I!I
want to ;go walking."
Somebody usually pacified me before
the time to go home.
My memory of life before that time is rather sketchy and varied;
I'm not sure what I remember and what I've been told that I was,
has become a part of my early memories.
Whether this is something
I remember or have been told about, it has become a part of my
so-called memory.
When I was very small, before we moved to this
particular area, I can remember riding on the old workhorse
(I believe the
old horse's name was Kate.).
From the barn, I
can remember riding the horse with my Father holding me on the
horse down to the watering trough in the old spring-place to
get —
to water the
old horse.
My Father had some sheep and
on this particular Spring, I possibly was four or maybe five,
I'm not sure.
But among the little lambs there was one black
one which became mine by divine right of having my own way; and
�I can remember being so proud of that little lamb, and how
heartbroken I was when one morning the little lamb did not
turn up with the rest of the sheep.
When daddy got out to
hunting it, why, he found it had died from what reason I
have no idea whatsoever.
When we first moved to this particular setting, these whole
meadows here were covered in mostly laurel, some maple, and
other hardwoods of that sort.
The creek at that time had many
deep holes and my brothers and I found it quite an enticing
place to play.
There was rather a mythological, scary figure
that, we were told, would get us if we went out to the creek.
That particular thing we called ol'Bloodybones.
I never knew
exactly what Bloodybones looked like but it sufficed to keep
us away from the creek at a time when we might have been
drowned.
In fact, I remember one time my younger brother, I
recall, was just a small toddler, and he had fallen
that crossed the creek.
off a footlog
At that time we carried water from
across the creek from the spring and brought it up the house.
He had fallen off into a rather deep hole and fortunately my
Mother saw him and was able to yank him out of the hole.
And again in those days, toys, such as children have such a
number of today, did not exist.
For jumpropes, we went over on
the hill and cut green briars and very carefully got rid of the
briars.
But we had some good jumpropes.
There was also some
sort of a vine and we called it "jackvine". I'm not sure just
what the correct name was, but we made ropes and jumpropes and
�tied all sorts of things with that.
Many times we'd go up onto
the mountain into the woods and we'd find wild grapevines.
Of course, (at) that age we were not trusted with a knife, but
we didn't need a knife many times.
We'd find a sharp rock and
keep beating and banging and bruising on an old grapevine down
at the ground to the point we were able to just get hold of the
grapevine and swing out - way out into the woods - it made no
difference to us if down underneath us, forty or fifty feet, was
a big rock cliff.
That didn't bother at all.
Q:
What was Christmas like?
A:
What was Christmas like?
Christmas for us in the early days
was; well, it was a time when we looked forward to it a great deal.
It was not commercialized to the extent it is today, and since
children didn't have a great deal of toys.
If we got one toy,
the boys got a jackknife from a Jay Lynn catalog, or a juice harp
or French harp.
That, maybe one toy, and most of the time we
needed shoes or clothing, so maybe we got some clothing, and
maybe an orange or nuts, and a little bit of candy - most stick
candy than any other kind.
I recall one time I got what I
thought was the most beautiful doll that I'd ever seen; the first
store-bought doll I ever had.
or six at the time.
Q:
What was it like?
I must not have been more than five
�A:
I tell you, I had a rugged life trying to keep up with that
bunch of boys; and I didn't think it was fair that they should
be able to do anything that I couldn't do.
I gave them a
hard run for their money - all of them.
Q:
What was family life like, doing chores?
A:
Every child had its own particular bit of chores to do, work
around the house.
In those days there was wood to cut, wood
to haul into the woodyard, wood to split for stovewood, and
of course, the fireplace wood to be taken care of.
There were
cattle, cows to milk, and calves to look after, and sheep to be
looked after, and horses to be fed and watered, and everybody. .
oh, chickens to be looked after.
had our own eggs.
We raised our own chickens,
I remember, possibly when I was five years
old, I took a pint cup with my Mother to milk and found out
that I could squeeze a little milk out of the old cow.
Q:
What was the main source of income?
A:
Farming.
That was about all.
In those early days people just
about raised on the farm what they existed on.
Now for sugar
and other staples that you couldn't raise, you had maybe some
extra chickens and eggs and butter and things like that.
It was mostly a barter economy in those days.
You would
�go to the store with a little jaggard of money and buy a sack
of flour or something like that.
You traded for it.
Particularly in this area, most people just about raised what
they lived on.
I can remember when we raised our own wheat
and had it ground.
those days.
Buckwheat, we used a lot of buckwheat in
We always had that buckwheat.
Raised our own,
had it thrashed and carried it up to Meatcamp to the
Winebarger watermill and had our own flour ground.
And all
transportation was by horse and wagon, buggy or sled.
Q:
What about the development of Todd?
A:
My earliest remembrance of Todd goes back to a time when Todd
was quite a prosperous and thriving little metropolis.
We had a bank.
depot.
We had a drugstore. We had, of course, the
The train, of course, ran in at that time.
The main
source of transportation and commerce at that time that
brought the railroad in here was the chestnuts, especially the
tanbark from the chestnut wood, and cross-ties and things like
that.
Much of the lumber in the area was sawed up into cross-
ties and lumber.
It left here by train.
Q:
Do you remember the train being put in?
A:
No.
I don't remember exactly.
I can't recall that, I can just
—
�I know when the train was here.
remember when it came.
That probably, no. . .1 don't
I couldn't tell you that I knew that.
The train was here as far back as I can recall.
Q:
What about the depression?
Do you remember the depression?
Can you tell me something about what happened?
A:
Well, as far as the depression was actually concerned in this
area, we had no soup lines, nor did we have anybody on
starvation.
But again, people who owned their own property
or who lived on the land, so to speak, made out with just
about what they could raise.
Grown men worked many a day for
a quarter a day, sometimes fifty cents.
But then you could
take what you earned (now that was a 10-hour day, not an 8hour day) and go to the local grocery store and carry enough
home to feed a huge family on for some time.
was just about non-existent.
time.
Money, as such,
Especially at this particular
Many people in this area began to raise cabbage for the
market, the kro,ut factory at Boone.
maybe a quarter of a cent a pound.
I believe cabbage was
I'm not sure.
It finally
got to the point that I believe we had a field above the road
over here at one time (and) I believe part of it just stood
there.
Q:
There was no sale for it at all.
Do you think people were better off out here than they were in
the city?
�A:
In that regard, yes. Because (in) rural life in those days,
as well as now, rural people tend to look after each other.
If somebody needed help, everybody shared to the last goround.
While possibly in towns or in the cities at this
particular time, maybe one didn't know what his neighbor
needed or maybe there was a different philosophical attitude.
Q:
Do you think that today that still exists?
A:
To some extent.
However, in this particular area, as far as
helping one's neighbor (or it doesn't have to be one who lives
nearby, someone in the community who has suffered some misfortune in some way), everybody tends to assist in any way
they can.
However, the time had come until "my business is
not everybody else's business."
There is beginning to be a
little more of the metropolitan attitude.
engrossed in everyone's private affairs.
We're not so
Now there was a time
when practically everyone in any area was somehow related or
inter-related and it was just about like one big family in a
sense.
And today, young people in the rural area have moved
out, and as we say, foreigners have come in; and it isn't quite
the same.
But there's still maybe a sense of a deeper
fellowship camaraderie prevalent in many areas.
Q:
What about the people that are moving in now, the tourists
that are at Beech Mountain, Sugar Mountain?
�A:
Well now, I have little connection with Beech Mountain, Sugar
Grove, or anything of that sort.
Of course, they have moved
in here primarily for summer-home and winter recreational
facilities.
Most of the people who have come into this
particular area who have purchased homes, or even have
summer homes, they are —
let's say —
they own the property,
maybe they pay taxes, but as for adding much to the general
cultural level of the community, there's not much interchange or relationship in that sense.
Q:
Do you particularly like it?
A:
Well, I have no objection to anyone getting rid of his
property wherever he wants to.
But I'll have to get down
to dire need before I'd sell any property to anybody of that
sort.
I have no, no reason for that except that from what
we have been able to see from experience.
They, maybe, the
general cultural level and educational level have not increased
any as a result.
Q:
I should say that.
Do you think these people are kind of destroying the mountains
as they were?
A:
Well, there has been a great deal of change throughout this
whole area.
Much of it has, in the ecological sense, destroyed
the native beauty and attractiveness of the landscape.
�10
Q:
So you could do without them?
A:
Well, I could.
My livelihood and my economy doesn't depend
on them in any way.
Q:
What about your education?
I want you to kind of tell me
about your early elementary school and on up until you got
your degree to be a teacher.
A:
Well, when I started to school, there was no laws, no law
giving a specific age for entry in school.
You went when
Mom and Dad decided you was big enough to get there, I guess.
I started to school in a little frame schoolhouse about a
quarter of a mile from here when I was five.
However, before
I went to school, I have no recollection at all of when or how
I learned to read; but before I ever saw the inside of a
schoolhouse, I was reading Zane Grey books and things of that
sort.
It was just a great deal of that, I'm sure, came
through my Grandmother who lived with us for years.
us all, I guess, in a sense.
boxes and so on.
and so on.
She taught
We read, oh, sugar bags and soda
We associated words with what she'd tell us
One of the earliest teachers I can remember was
Graham - D. W. Graham and his wife.
Mr. Graham is now dead and
Mrs. Graham is the mother of Dr. James Graham in Boone.
They taught at the local school.
Wilson Norris of Boone and
Mrs. Edith Norris, his wife, also were among my early teachers.
�11
Mr. Wade Norris, who died a year or two ago, was an early
teacher.
Mr. Elic Tugman, the father of the Tugman boys in
Boone, and then that just about brings it down to the time
that Mr. Ron Davis hit us all broadsided as an elementary
teacher.
Q:
I reckon everyone remembers him?
A:
Everybody remembers Ron, Mr. Ron Davis.
He was an excellent
teacher, but we thought he was awfully hard.
However, if I
was every inspired to aspire to becoming a teacher, I think
perhaps he gave me the little leverage I needed to send me on
the way.
He was very hard.
He was quite a stern taskmaster.
We soon learned when he said something, he didn't beat about the
bush about it, we knew it had to be just as he said it was.
Then that just about took me up to the time when we went into
highschool, and highschool began at the eighth grade.
Mr.
Davis continued his education along as he taught, and we thought
once we had left the elementary grades that we'd get rid of him;
but he came right along up the line, and most of us had him for
at least a few classes in highschool.
Q:
When did you go to college?
A:
I started college in 1936 and went three years, and completed
my B.S. degree in 1940.
�12
Q:
When did you start teaching?
A:
I started teaching in the fall of the same year at a school
in Wilkes County that is now no longer in existence as such.
It was Mount Pleasant High School in Wilkes County at that time.
Q:
What grade did you teach?
A:
Well, I'm an English teacher.
I taught English.
in English, French, and History.
I was certified
My first year I taught some
English, some French, and some History to the various levels.
Q:
That was 1937 you started teaching?
A:
I started teaching in 1940.
Q:
You've been teaching ever since?
A:
I've been teaching continuously ever since.
The first year,
or when I applied for a job, jobs were pretty scarce in those
days and there was no vacancy in either my own home county of
Watauga or Ashe.
I had a friend who taught, in fact, he was
the principal at this particular school.
In communication with
him, he told me there was a vacancy in my field and I applied
at this school and had the fortune to get a school.
My salary was $96 a month.
in my life —
$96 —
The biggest money I've ever earned
and 8 months school.
�13
Q:
What would you do in the summer?
A:
In the summer months when I was not in school and after I got
my B.S. degree, I did not return to school for 3 or 4 years,
I'm not sure.
Most of my summers I spent at home because the
first year I taught, I taught in Wilkes County and the illness
of my Mother made it necessary that I stay home.
I did apply
and was fortunate enough to get a job at the local school just
across the hill, almost in sight.
years.
I taught over here about 7
(As for) my summers up until when the war began, my
brothers were all in the service except for one, who was 4-F
because of high blood pressure and a heart condition.
He
hadn't been well for years.
Q:
What war was that?
A:
World War II.
Mother had a heart condition.
Eventually it
became necessary that she go to the hospital and remain there
for, oh, continuously, for the last six months of her life.
And again, that was in the time of World War II when gas
rationing and tire rationing and sugar rationing and everything
was in effect.
and back.
I just about had to make a trip a day to Boone
With a little understanding on the part of the
rationing board, I managed to get enough gas to do the necessary
running.
A.
I believe a C rationing gave you a little more than an
An ordinary passenger car, I think, got so many A stamps
�14
for a month or so and so. You couldn't get anywhere on that.
Q:
You remember the flood of '40, don't you?
A:
The flood of '40, yes.
begin in Wilkes County.
It was just about time for school to
It was to be my first school.
Before
time for school to start, the flood came and, of course, the
road washed out over the top of the mountain out in Deep Gap.
Many of the roads to Wilkes County were destroyed and schools
were delayed.
I'm not sure how long . . . several weeks until
the road could be repaired before we could start school.
Right here in this valley I well remember it rained for, I
don't know, 3 or 4 days almost continuously.
afternoon it just continued to pour.
about have saturated the whole earth.
On this particular
The rain seemed to just
This particular afternoon
it got darker than usual along about 3 or 4 o'clock.
continued to pour down.
Rain
The creek out back of my house in
ordinary times was nothing more than a little stream you could
almost jump over, and there was a footblock, I guess about 15
or 20 feet above the water that we crossed over going over on the
hill.
Some of my brothers decided they'd better get out and see
about the cattle. We had some milk cows and calves, and they
were grazing back on the other side of the creek up on the
mountain.
So a couple of them took the milk bucket over to the
cow and maybe milked; I believe they milked.
Before they could
get back, I had stepped out on the back porch and saw a veritable
wall of water coming down to the house over Balm of Gilead trees,
�15
some 30 feet high, I guess.
That wall of water, it didn't
go over the top of them, it just swayed them over and covered
the whole thing.
By that time, not only was the wall of
water between us and the hill on this side, but the water
had cut a new channel and spread out all over those meadows
out here.
The house here was on the highest ground and it did
split going on either side.
So part of the family was on that
side of the creek and part of it was over here.
The boys who
were on the mountain side just followed the trail on down to the
next neighbor's house and there was no way for them to get
across, so they spent the night there.
When we realized that
it was going to be rather dangerous to stay here, we made
arrangements to get out.
We chained the car to an apple tree
and a couple of my brothers veritably carried our mother out—
the water striking the boys (and a couple of them were about
grown at that time) above the waist.
who lived just across the road.
We went over to the people
Before we got out, we had 3 or
4 hogs in the hogpen where the water was swirling around.
My brother, Tom, took a big old hammer, we called it a rock
hammer or a go-devil or something of the sort.
He knocked the
door down to the hogpen and let the hogs out so they swam out
and got around the barn.
Even before they could get to safety
around the barn, the water was so swift that when the hogs
came out of the pen, it just swept them off their feet.
Some of them were swept down, oh, between the barn and the
house and managed to get out and get back up to the barn.
�16
One of the calves that couldn't be satisfied without trying
to cross the creek and get back upon the hill where its mother
was, washed away.
down the river.
It managed to get to land about 3 miles
Somehow or another there was a little island
back there and along with other neighbors''
animals (many of
them were washed into the mountain side of the river), managed
to get out and survive.
Q:
So did the hogs drown?
A:
No, the hogs survived.
We lost nothing except an awful lot
of topsoil, all the fences we had, and that one calf, I believe,
the extent ot it.
Q:
So most of the people took care of each other?
A:
Absolutely.
Q:
What was the feeling?
A:
Well, we'd never experienced anyting like that before.
always had rain.
Were you really scared?
We'd
We..had always been accustomed to the old
creek out back of the house.
It would get up pretty angry
at times and maybe get out of its bank, but nobody ever had
any conception of what it would be like for just a veritable
downpour such as that, and just sweep houses and cattle and
fences and everything away.
We had some young fryers.
�17
We raised our own at that time, and we had a bunch of young
fryers.
They got drabbled and somehow or other they'd made
their way toward the house and had gotten on the back porch.
I grabbed up a chicken coop and slammed some of them inside
and took it out to set it in the woodhouse.
Just as I set
foot in the woodhouse, I felt the whole thing give away.
It was gone, chicken coop and all, within the space of five
minutes.
Q:
I just did get out in time.
What did most of the people think about the flood afterwards?
What was the feeling?
A:
Well, I guess if you are wondering if the people through this
area thought it was a judgement of God or something, I didn't
hear anything of that sort.
It was a natural phenomenon and
most people were so grateful in comparison with the horrors
that had been reported from the Wilkes County side and down
Elk where the landslide was.
So many people had lost their
lives, a week or two later they were still finding bodies in
brush piles on so on.
It was a feeling of gratitude and thank-
fulness that it was no worse in this area than it was.
So as
far as I know, no one in our particular area right here lost
anything more than . . . (tape ends).
Q:
What about church life?
A:
Well, we are certainly in a strict Bible belt.
Within this
little community there, up the highway 194 towards Boone, is
�18
a little Episcopal church that is no longer being pastored,
but in those days it was certainly a vital part of it.
And again, in those early days, through Mrs. W. S. Miller
(who sort of saw to it that the Episcopal church did continue
to live) in many instances, books, printed material and
sometimes clothing, through her effort were sent outside this
little area to help many of the people who had large families.
Not many of them had much reading material.
Of course there
are a lot of these churches in our community.
There's the
Baptist church, of which I am a member, and all my forefathers
before me.
The next largest was Methodist and then Holiness
church, the Holiness Tabernacle Church.
was the pastor.
Mr. Ed Blackburn
Have you talked with Ed?
You must.
Q:
Ed kind of helps out everybody, right?
A:
Ed"s mother and my grandmother were sisters, and not only does
Ed sort of look after the spiritual welfare of all the people,
it doesn't make any difference, rich or poor, stranger or a
next-door neighbor, anyone who needs help, Ed's right there.
Q:
How had the church changed from when you were a little girl to now?
A:
Well, the biggest change that I see - when I was a little girl
the church that I attended was located about a half a mile up
South Fork river from Todd.
It was just an old frame building.
We had the old pot-bellied stove in the middle of the church.
�19
The church was just one big room.
Of course it was curtained
off eventually for Sunday School rooms and then we'd draw the
curtains for the auditorium for the preaching and so on.
Other than the style, of course, of the so-called ministry,
the
attitude
of the people, I guess you could say, have
changed more than anything else.
Right now we have a rather
comfortable brick building down in the little village itself.
We have a beautiful auditorium; and we have, I couldn't tell
you, a dozen or more Sunday School rooms, and all the space in
the world we need.
In those old days, and I can remember back
then, we didn't have a regular preacher right here for this
particular church, but I don't know, maybe once or twice a
month these preachers (one of them a Preacher Roberts) would
ride the train in from Abingdon or Bristol or somewhere, I'm
not sure just where. And if they came on a Saturday now, we
had Saturday services.
There were two services, maybe in those
days maybe two services a month.
There would be a Saturday
service and then a Sunday service.
The minister who came in to
pastor the church would spend the night among some of
his
parishioners and on Sunday, would preach and, I guess, I don't
recall definitely, but I assume that he had to stay over til
Monday to take the train back.
Transportation, I can remember,
we walked to church or if we didn't walk, we rode in a wagon
or a buggy or something like that.
weather everybody walked.
Most of the time in pretty
�20
Q:
Was Sunday a real exciting time, something to look forward to?
A:
Well yes, everybody was just . . . church about the only place
you went during the week in those days.
It was not only the
spiritual center, but the recreational center.
Friends,
relatives, and neighbors seldom saw each other more than on
Sunday, you know, and so everybody found out everybody else's
affairs and how everybody was doing.
It was not only a worship
service and Sunday School, but it was just a general get-together.
Q:
Do you think now that churches have lost that get-together sort
of thing?
A:
Well, not in our rural area.
Most people still have that.
Taking myself as an example, I certainly would have to say it's
different because I'm usually about the first one out of church
and I zoom home to get me something to eat.
But generally
speaking, everybody stands around, especially in pretty weather,
and talks, you know, and nobody is in any hurry to get home —
except me.
I guess perhaps one reason for that —
have very few ties with many of the people in that
right now I
community
except church attendance and the little rural store down here.
I see more of the people in the West Jefferson area where I
teach than I do around here.
Perhaps the attitude of people
towards spiritual things has changed a little bit in some areas,
but we're pretty narrow-minded here.
Right's right and wrong's
wrong, and there's no gray shades in between.
�21
Now I didn't quite finish awhile ago about my education after
I got my B.S. degree and went to teaching.
Of course, there
was a regulation at that particular time that within five years
you must renew.
So when I started back to renew, I also started
work on my Masters degree which I finished in '53, while I
taught school 9 months of the year and went to school 12 months,
Saturday and extension classes and so forth.
Q:
You said your mother lived to be 104 years old?
A:
My grandmother.
Q:
Could you tell me a little bit about her?
A:
Well, my grandmother was a Tatun and that is one of the old
families of the county.
She came from a large family.
I don't
recall now the names of her brothers, but they were all a longlived people.
Q:
How many were there?
A:
I just don't remember.
Now when you talk to Mrs. Miller down
here (of course, we are related through the Tatun side), she can
fill you in on a great deal of this that I do not know a thing
about or have forgotten.
�22
Q:
Remarkable.
A:
Oh yes. One thing I remember about her was that she was of
the old school that believed in many of the superstitions as
we would call them now.
She thought that when the master of
the house died, if you had bees, and you didn't go out and tell
the bees that the head of the house was gone that . . .(phone
rings).
Q:
You were talking about the bees.
A:
Well when my father died I remember distinctly we had I don't
know how many hives of bees out here in the yard, about where
the pear tree is now.
She tied a black arm band or ribbon or
something around her arm, and she took her cane
her way out there from hive to hive.
and she made
She was saying to each
hive, "The master of the house is dead.
The master of the house
is dead".
Q:
I've never heard of that before,
A:
You haven't.
Well, that's an old New England custom at least.
But I remember distinctly she believing it.
Q:
What other folktales?
A:
Grandmother believed in witches.
There was, I'm not sure,
�23
I don't recall enough of the details to be specific about it,
but among her acquaintances as a young woman, there was someone
who had the name of being a witch.
And if this particular woman
had any grievance against you, she would cast a spell on your
milk cow and it would give bloody milk or completely go dry, or
cast a spell on a child and it would get sick.
There was some
tale that she told about this particular woman planting a little
handful of some sort of bean that she did some incantation over,
and over this little handful of beans when they were planted,
when she harvested, she had a bushel.
I'm not sure of the
amount, 1 just remember some fantastic amount like that.
She believed in witches now, she knew from first hand, you know.
At least in the cultural society in which she grew up, that
was true.
I don't remember so much about, oh, many of the older
sayings about the weather and, of course, people in an earlier
time didn't have the weather report to depend on.
all the signs and importance of the weather.
Grandma knew
I don't recall
that she knew any more than just the regular old things, red
clouds at night, and an east wind and the things like that, the
weather that would naturally follow, so to speak.
Q:
What does a red cloud mean?
A:
Well, red clouds in the morning, sailors take warning; red clouds
at night, sailors' delight.
Of course, atmospheric conditions,
it produced the different things.
An east wind which would
�24
make the smoke from the chimneys settle pretty close to the
ground, that was a pretty good sign that it was going to rain
or weather because, again, atmospheric conditions being what
they were, it would be natural, but that was the way they more
or less examined it. Owls, over the hills and hooting around,
why, in about 3 days you'd have bad weather.
Q:
Groundhogs?
A:
Oh, you'd better believe it.
Grandmother was also a devout
believer in the phases of the moon.
You planted in the moon,
you put a new roof on a building in the moon, you killed briars
and bushes by cutting them on some phase of the moon.
You
planted beans at one time, potatoes at another, and cucumbers,
the sign just had to be just right.
I believe maybe the Twins,
I'm not sure, to have a good crop of cucumbers.
Q:
And she lived this?
A:
Yes, as much as she could.
own sheep.
I have seen her take wool from our
I have helped wash the wool, clean it, and I remember
seeing her spin thread from that wool.
Q:
What about her crafts?
A:
Well, Grandmother could do just about most anything, as far as
I know.
What talent did she have?
She would card and spin and knit and do general sewing.
�25
I don't recall that she did much cooking after I can remember.
I'm sure she did.
She had an idiosyncracy about her food:
bread, especially her cornbread, was unsalted.
her
When mother
baked cornbread there was always a little tiny cake put in the
pan that had no salt in it.
Q:
Why?
A:
I don't remember.
I just don't remember.
I'v e often
wondered if that wasn't one reason she did live to be so old,
that maybe no salt to have any effect on blood pressure or
anything of that sort.
Now I do remember, not only she, but
my mother, and my mother's mother, who lived right up above
us here, saved ashes from the fireplace. Especially if a certain
kind of wood had been burned, the ashes were always saved and
put into an ash hopper, or an old hollow log that was sitting
upon a board.
They kept the good ashes —
wood ashes, I'm not sure —
I guess it was hard-
through the wintertime, and come
spring after having saved up all the meat scraps and grease and
so on through the winter, on a nice warm spring day, an old big
wash pot, big old iron pot fixed up on a tripod, you could make
a fire underneath it, was filled with water.
morning the water was heated.
Very early that
You kept pouring water up in the
ash hopper and gradually it made its way down through —
through —
and came out as pure lye, old brown lye.
seeped
After you got
I don't know how much, but however large the amount was or what
they wanted, then that was put into a wash pot, or wash tub, and
the meat scraps and grease, and so on, and mixed in.
It came out
�26
and made soap.
soap.
I couldn't tell you how, but it made soap—soft
Or cook it a little longer and maybe add a little borax
or something, maybe make hard soap.
That was about the kind of
soap you used for general cleaning and washing.
Q:
About taking a bath —
A:
Oh heavens no!
you didn't have a bathtub?
We had an outdoor "johnnie" winter and summer.
You would go out to the "johnnie" in the wintertime and the
wind blew through the cracks and sift snow all over you.
you got a bath —
it was in a washtub —
And
and you got an all-
over bath about once a week, I'd say.
Q:
You would just wash off?
A:
You just "swiped"
off otherwise.
In the springtime, about the
first day of May was time to go barefoot.
Any child that wasn't
allowed to pull off their shoes and go barefoot from then to a
frost, was a sissy!
The biggest job our mother had was to try to
get our feet washed before we went to bed, because we'd always
have a stubbed toe or scratched foot or something; and it dirty,
it hurt so bad to wash it off.
If possible, we liked to sneak
off to bed without washing our feet.
with that very few times.
Q:
Did you all have feather beds?
A:
Oh yes, I reckon so!
But I tell you, we got by
�27
Q:
What about the politics, the first election that you voted in?
A:
The first election I voted in, uh, let me go back a little bit
and tell you about the elections long before I voted.
In fact,
some of my earliest recollections and especially before
Presidential elections in this area, there were about two things
you'd get into arguments about, politics and religion.
Before
Presidential elections, people's emotions ran pretty high.
Parents didn't even let their children go down to the little
village much on Saturday evenings, when the local gentry gathered
together assisted by a little moonshine.
high
and fights were pretty common.
Emotions got pretty
Again, I don't remember
this, but I do remember hearing that my grandfather was an avid
politician.
More than once he just about climbed some of his
friends, you know —
good friends any other time.
election time, they differed in their politics.
But come
Now, they sort of
lost track of friendship till after the election.
Now I can't
tell you what my reaction was to the first election I voted in.
I suppose I looked forward to it with a great deal of anticipation
because I guess it was a milestone in my life.
I have attained my majority, I can vote.
Well after all,
The first time I voted
was just a regular state and local election.
I had to wait
another 4 years for my first Presidential election.
Q:
You remember who was running?
A:
No, I don't remember too much.
Let's see.
Probably the one
that made the greatest impression on me might've been about the
�28
first time I voted for a President, was Franklin D.
Q:
Was he real popular in this area?
A:
Well, not in the beginning.
But he started activities that
he brought out in programs that he espoused that did tend to
make finances and economic conditions a little more stable.
Yes, he was.
He was a popular person.
Q:
What about Mr. Truman?
A:
Well, everybody through this section that I had any contact
with, was a little bit skeptical of Harry S., but were quite
pleased when he did show enough initiative to take over and do.
He was a peppery little man with his sometime obscenities.
He was a popular man.
Q:
Well, what about Eisenhower?
A:
Everybody liked "Ike" pretty well.
"splash" in this area.
He didn't make a great
Franklin D. was the flamboyant President.
Of course, the President during war times.
From Franklin D. to
John F. Kennedy, I guess those were the two that made the biggest
impression on people or made the biggest impression on me.
Q:
Do you like Kennedy?
�29
A:
Well, he presented a different aspect.
I think young people
had a tendency to identify with him more than any of the
others.
Q:
What about Johnson?
A:
Well, again, personnally, I'm talking from my own ideas now,
my own attitude toward Johnson.
I thought when Johnson came
in as President under the conditions that he had to become
President under, I thought that he conducted himself very
well.
I'd always been a little bit leary of him because he
was such a "wheeler-dealer" all during his earlier political
life, and I guess throughout his presidency.
Frankly, I was
little bit sorry for Johnson during the latter days of his
administration.
Things had just gotten out of hand, and it
looked as if nobody could do anything about it.
He was bearing
the brunt of something that had started years earlier.
Q:
And what about Mr. Nixon?
A:
Well, I guess Mr. Nixon has had to make his mark on the world.
I'm not sure just what my attitude toward Mr. Nixon is.
Sometimes I think he has, and is doing, a remarkable job.
Then again, I begin to think we have a dictator instead of a
President.
Before I pass judgment on Mr. Nixon, I think maybe
I'll have to wait until his term of office is out and do that
in retrospecti'\ action rather
than perspective.
I really don't
�30
know.
I am glad that he has been able to bring things to
a wind-down in Vietnam.
wind down much.
However, I don't think it's going to
All I'm hoping is that we get our POW's out.
And then let them have it!
Q:
What about Vietnam in this area, how did people feel about it?
A:
Well, it was a useless war.
of it.
Most people could see little use
Just as we take our religion seriously - we still believe
in "Mom, God, and apple pie" country and so on.
Most people
through this area, they weren't in favor of going to fight in
Vietnam, or anything of the sort.
But I don't recall anyone who
deliberately left the country, or anything of the sort to keep
out of it.
Q:
So as far as overall policies are concerned, you think Mr.
Roosevelt was good?
A:
Well, he made a bigger impression on me perhaps at that
particular time.
colorful.
He was the most flamboyant, picturesque,
And in that time, when he would come on the radio,
"My fellow Americans" —
why, it would just about make chills
chase up and down your spine!
Q:
What about the law, police officers, etc?
A:
Well, when I was a child, about the only police officer we
ever saw or heard tell of was maybe the County Sheriff or Deputy,
�31
who had a bunch of bloodhounds trying to chase down somebody
who had broken in and stolen something.
knew.
That was about all I
The idea of a bloodhound was enough to make my blood
curdle.'
I don't suppose that other than that, I had much idea
of what law was about, because I just didn't come in contact
with it.
Q:
Do you think that the people, when you were small, were the law?
Like they said "This is right, this is wrong."
A:
I'm not sure, I could not answer that.
I just don't know.
This particular little area through here was pretty law- abiding.
We had an individual or two who was known to be what we called
just a veritable rogue, and everything that got gone was blamed
on one or two individuals, whether they were responsible or not.
I remember very well that we had some hams to disappear from the
old spring house.
We knew where they went.
We didn't have
any proof or anything, but we knew where they went.
Someone broke
in the little service station that was in operation right across
the road and everybody knew pretty well where the things went.
Nobody had any proof, but everybody knew.
Q:
If you could change something back to the way it was, what would
you change?
A:
I have no idea.
�32
Q:
As far as the community is concerned?
A:
Perhaps, if it had been possible or if it were possible
to
bring our little village back to the status and standards it
once had here, it
today would have been a private metropolis.
If we could go back to that time and continue to grow, I've
always wondered what would have happened had our bank and drugstore and all our facilities continued to expand instead become
sort of a ghost town, as it did become.
The chestnuts sort of
all died of blight and the timber supply cut off.
Q:
Looking at Boone, don't you think the people out here have a little
something that they don't find in Boone?
A:
We have a little something that Boone is missing now,
earlier times
in
when Boone was more provincial, long before we
had all the growth.
Even the industry —
I think industry is
the backbone of the county and of the economy.
But yes,
some
of the provincial attitudes and the neighborliness, general
neighborliness, has disappeared.
life.
It was one time a part of
I suppose we still have that to an extent out in most of
the rural areas.
Q:
How do you feel about women's lib?
A:
1 guess I would have to say that I'm in favor of equal rights
�33
for women.
A lot of this so-called stuff I read in here, it
has little interest for me,
except that 1 think a woman
should be paid on the same basis as a man for a job she does just
as well, and sometimes better.
And I have yet to find that.
But there are very few men who I would regard to be my intellectual
superior.
Q:
How would your grandmother feel?
A:
Well, my grandmother on my mother's side was rather conservative.
My grandmother on my father's side was quite conservative.
However, she lived through the Civil War, when she found that she
had to take the old mules or whatever they used, and go out in
the fields and plow.
than you would expect.
She was a little more independent maybe
And, of course, that sense of independence
came because mostly through that she had to sort of take over and
be the head of the house.
Q:
So, you don't think that a woman's place is at the home?
A:
For a woman who wants to make the home and family her life, that's
fine.
For those who want to combine them and have both, that's
fine.
But as far as carrying it to the extent that some of our
women "libbers" are, I think it's mostly to get attention rather
than action.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-11
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Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ruby Trivette, February 17, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Ms. Trivette's interview consists of many memories from her childhood including growing up on a farm, what the town of Todd was like, and her experiences in the schoolhouse setting. She then goes further talking about her memories of her education leading up to her teaching career. Although she mentions little on World War II, she talks more in detail about the Great Depression and what its effects were like on the neighborhood. Ms. Trivette also recollects her personal experience with the flood of 1940. She explains what local church was like when she was younger compared to her current experiences with church. Ms. Trivette also speaks of the folktales her grandmother believed in. By the end of the interview, Ms.Trivette discusses politics from her childhood to the present including elections and presidents. While speaking of politics, she mentions past laws and offers her opinion on women's equality.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bullock, Bill
Trivette, Ruby
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2/17/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
33 pages
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
document
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
111_tape33_RubyTrivette_1973_02_17M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Todd, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Country life--North Carolina--Todd
Todd (N.C.)--History--20th century
Todd (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Ashe County
bartering
Bible Belt
Bloodybones
buckwheat
Christmas
D.W. Graham
Deep Gap
farming
flood of 1940
jackvine
Politics
red cloud
sheep
superstition
Tatun
teacher
Todd
Wilkes
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/a00cf12ea310f0eebbd1161d3a1fc4ab.pdf
9f6a75e87daff337992383079cc236c4
PDF Text
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D.T SB.W.
1. Oh, Co-ium-bia, the gem of the ocean, The home of the brave and the free, The
2. When war wing'd its wide des-o - la-tion, And threaten'd the land to de - form, The
3. The
star-spangled banner bring hither, O'er Columbia's true sons let it wave; May tht
shrine of each pa-triot's de - vo-tion,
ark
then of freedom's foun . da-tion,
wreaths they have won nev- er wither.
A world of-fers horn-age to thee,
Thy
Co • lum-bia, rode safe thro' the storm: With the
Nor its stars cease to shine on the brave. May the
mandates make he. roes as - sem-ble,
When Lib - er-ty's form stands in view; Thy
garlands of vie • fry a-round her, When so proudly she bore her brave crew, With he*
ser-vice u - ni. ted ne'er sev-er,
Bat hold to their colors so true; The
banners make t y r - a n - n y tremble, When borne by the red, white and blue,
flag proudly floating be - fore her, The boast cT the red, white and blue,
ar . my and na • vy for • ev . er, Three cheers for the red, white and blue,
bome by the red, white and blue,
boast of the red, white and blue,
cheers for the red, white and blue,
banners make tyr - in - ny tremble,
flag proud-ly floating be • fore her,
ar - my and na - vy for - ev • er,
When borne by the red, white and blue,
The boast of the red, white and blue,
Three cheers for the red, white and blue,
When
The
Three
y
With h«:
The
'When borne by the red, white and blue.
The
boast of the red, white and blue.
Three cheers for the red, white and blue.
«
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/e143c614f2d506767bef99be2f10d1c8.pdf
ccff8b798676710cd1fb34d21b8e69b8
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Dublin Core
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Title
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Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
41
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 5 [May 1, 1910 - November 30, 1910]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
27.6 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_005_1910_0501_1910_1130
Description
An account of the resource
These diary entries, from Andrew Jackson Greene, date from May 1, 1910 to November 30, 1910. Each day’s entry includes a simple record of his activities. In each entry he mentions towns he visits such as Zionville, Mabel, and Silverstone. He also mentions the work he does, his friends, and the happenings within the church.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Teachers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
A.W. Smith
Alfred Thomas
Alsen Isaac
Andrew Greer
B.B. Daugherty
Beaver Dam Church
Beaver Dams
Bible Readings
corn
Cove Creek
D.E. Benfield
Democratic Primary
Dock Benfield
farming
G.H. Thomas
Hagaman's & Co
Halley's Comet
Henly Greer
Hoke Smith
I.G. Greer
Impeachment
J.C. Davis
J.F. Eggers
J.F. Oliver
J.J.T. Reese
Justice of the Peace
Mabel
measles
Methodist Church
music
Pleasant Grove
President Andrew Johnson
Reverend C.S. Farthing
Reverend J.M. Payne
Reverend Reese Greene
Reverend W. Swift
S.M. Greene
schoolhouse
Sermons
Sherrill's Store
Silverstone
Singing
Smith Hagaman
Sunday School
Three Forks Association
Tree Bark
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/a983b99c5e1d3f54d707a8598cbfe3a5.pdf
21eae64ba32dd20f64c842793cec648f
PDF Text
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.
THE PROTHONOTARY WARBLER.
'E Prothonotary or Golden Swamp Warbler is one of the very handsomest
of American birds, being noted for the pureness and mellowness of its plumage. It is found in the West Indies and Central America as a migrant, and
in the southern region of the United States. In the Central West it appears as far
north as Kansas, Central Illinois, and Missouri. Its favorite resorts are creeks and
lagoons, overshadowed by large trees, as well as the borders of sheets of water and
the interior of forests. It returns early in March to the Southern states, but to
Kentucky not before the last of April, leaving in October. A single brood only is
raised in a season. A very pretty nest is sometimes built within a woodpecker's
hole in a stump of a tree not more than three feet high. Where this occurs the
nest is not shaped round, but is made 1 j conform to the irregular cavity of the
stump. This cavity is deepest at one end, and the nest is closely packed with dried
leaves, broken bits of grasses, stems, mosses, decayed wood, and other material, the
upper part interwoven with fine roots, varying in size but all strong, wiry, and
slender, and lined with hair. Other nests have been discovered which were circular
in shape. In one instance the nest was built in a brace hole in a mill, where the
birds could be watched closely as they carried in the materials. They were not
alarmed by the presence of the observers but seemed quite tame.
In restlessness few birds equal this species. • Not a nook nor corner of his
domain but is repeatedly visited during the day.
' ' Now he sings a few times from the top of some tall willow that leans out over
the stream, sitting motionless among the marsh foliage, fully aware, perhaps, of
the protection afforded by his harmonizing tints. The next moment he descends to
the cool shadows beneath, where dark, coffee-colored waters, the overflow of a pond
or river, stretch back among the trees. Here he loves to hop about the floating
drift-wood, wet by the lapping of^pulsating^Vavelets, now following up some long,
inclining, half submerged log, peeping into every crevice and occasionally dragging
forth from its concealment a spider or small beetle, turning alternately its bright
yellow breast and olive back toward the light ; now jetting his beautiful tail, or
quivering his wings tremulously ,^he darts off into some thicket in response to some
call from his mate ; or, flying to a neighboring tree trunk, clings for a moment
against the mossy hole to pipe his little strain, or look up the exact whereabouts of
some suspected insect prize."
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b3c01b4c86e312eaa36ea87d6a9f5d57.pdf
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
37
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene,Volume 8 [February 1, 1912 - June 30, 1912]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1912
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
26.4 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_008_1912_0201_1912_0630
Description
An account of the resource
These diary entries range from the dates of February 1, 1912 through June 30, 1912. In this range of dates, Greene writes about the harsh winter, the church, the farmers union, the birth of the family’s fourth child, and much more.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Teachers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
Alden Isaac
Allie Eggers
baseball
Beaver Dam
Bethel Church
Board of Road Supervisors
Brother Wilson
Chores
church
corn
currant pudding
Democratic Primary
Dr. Bingham
drummers
Farmer's Union
farming
Fork Ridge
G.P. Sherrill
Henly Greer
Henry Norris
Hunting
J.C. Davis
J.R. Garland
Lee Swift
Mabel
mill
Moses Eller
Pleasant Eastridge
Roy Eggers
sermon
Silverstone
Singing
Snow
Sunday School
Sunday School Convention
sweet potatoes
telephone
Theodore Roosevelt
tobacco
W.F. Reese
W.H. Greer
W.Y. Perry
William H. Taft
Zionville
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d960bd540c9a561f709dea5159dfde84.pdf
eb41702a544e117e9e0b80be93290a29
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THE: EUROPEAN KINGFISHER.
E Kingfisher occupies the whole continent of North America, and although
migrating in the North he is a constant resident of oiir Soxithern states.
The illustration on cover shows the European jMngfisher, formerly found in
England and portions of Europe in great numbers, but irow rarely seen, owing to an
unwarranted persecution by game keepers, and also by collectors who are always on
the lookout to capture this beautiful bird. The habits of European kingfishers are
identical with those of the American bird.
Like most birds of brilliant plumage, the Kingfisher is a very timid bird and
prefers a quiet and secluded haunt. It loves the little trout streams with wooded
jid precipitous banks, the still ponds and small lakes, the sides of sluggish rivers
and mill ponds.
Here in such a haunt the bird often flits past like an indistinct gleam of bluish
light. Fortune may sometime favor the observer and the bird may alight on some
twig over the stream. It eagerly scans the shoal of young trout sporting in the pool
below, when, suddenly it drops down into the water and almost before the observe^
is aw?re of the fact, is back again to the perch with a struggling fish in its beak.
Sometimes the captured fish is adroitly jerked into the air and caught as it falls.
Fish is the principal food of the Kingfisher, but it also eats various kinds of insects,
shrimps, and even small crabs.
It rears its young in a hole, which is made in a bank of the stream it frequents.
The nesting hole is bored rather slowly and takes from one to two weeks to complete. Six or eight glossy eggs are laid, sometimes on the bare soil, but often on
the fish bones which being indigestible are thrown up by the bird in pellets.
The Kingfisher has a crest of feathers on the top of his head, which he raises
and lowers especially when trying to drive intruders away from his nest. The
plumage is compact and oily, making it almost impervious to water.
It is said that few birds are connected with more fables than the Kingfisher.
The superstition that the Kingfisher when suspended by the throat would turn its
beak to that particular point of the compass from which the wind blew, is now dead.
It was also supposed to possess many astonishing virtues, as that its dried body
would avert thunderbolts and if kept in a wardrobe would preserve from moths the
woolen-stuffs and like contained in it. Under the name of " Halcyon," it was
fabled by the ancients to build its nest on the surface of the sea, and to have power
of calming the troubled waves during its period of incubation ; hence the phrase,
" halcyon days."
�
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d1ea57cc443f24c75c191cf27b832928.pdf
fa2d9f88479191a1ff0581ba01cd84f6
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
52
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 9 [July 1, 1912 - January 31, 1913]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1912-1913
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
34.7 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_009_1912_0701_1913_0131
Description
An account of the resource
These entries range from the dates of July 1, 1912 through January 31, 1913. In this diary, he included poetry, which is not featured in his other diaries. A.J. Greene recorded his daily activities, details about the weather, details about his work, politics of the time period, and many details about church and The Bible. He writes of several local places including Mabel, The Appalachian Training School, and Bushy Fork.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Teachers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
Appalachian Training School
B.B. Daugherty
Baltimore convention
Bible quotations
Boone
Brother Wilson
cherry picking
Christmas tree
church
corn
Cornhusking
Experiment Station
Farmer's Union
farming
Forest Grove
Fork Ridge
Governor Charles B. Aycock
Henly Greer
Henry Norris
J.C. Davis
J.F. Oliver
J.J.T. Reese
Jacob Norris
Jethro Wilson
John Norris
Justice of the Peace
Lectures
Mabel
mill
molasses
Report on Education
Road Superintendents
schoolhouse
Shakespeare
Singing
Sunday School
Teacher Recertification
Teacher's Institute
Three Forks Association
Zionville
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d713f48a0ceb3e67ffbf6bf8647e69b8.pdf
edf5aa2f9958aba2773ca1f9fdf92927
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��USEFUL INFORMATION
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
i 2
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
18
20
22
24
MULTIPLICATION TABLE
12
9 10 11
3 4 5 6| 7 8
6 8 10 12 | 14 16 18 20 22 24
9 12 15 18|21 24 | 27 30 33 36
12 16 20 24 28 32 3o 40 44 48
15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60
18 24 30 36 42 48 54 60 1 66 72
21 28 35 42 49 56 63 70 77 84
24 32 40 48 56 64 72 80 88 96
27 ?,6 45 54 63 72 81 90 99 108
30 40 50 60 70 80 90 | 100 110 120
33 44 55 66 77 I 88 99 110 121 132
36 48 i 60 72 84 96 108 120 132 144
Apothecaries' Weight
Table Showing value of Foreign Money in Dollars,
20 grains make
1 scruple
Cents and Mills
3 scruples '
1 dram
The Pound Sterling of Eng- 8 drams
"
1 ounce
land, Ireland and Scotland, 12 ounces "
1 pound
$4.86 65.
12d.-is.;20s.-*£. The value
Long {Measure
of Id is2cts.; Is. is 24)4.
The Franc of France, Bel-12 inches make 1 foot
I yard
gium and Switzerland, 3 feet
6 feet
fathom
.19 8 cts.
pole or rod
TheReichsmark(Royalmark) 5% yards '
furlong
:, of the German Empire, 40 poles
8 furlongs "
mile
.23 8 cts.
degree
The Crown of Osnmark,Nor- (f)Y& miles '
mile
way and Sweden, .26 8 cts. 320 rods
mile
The Lira of Italy and the 5,280 feet '
Peseta of Spain. .19 3 cts.
The Florin of Austria, .41 3.
Square Measure
The Florin of Holland, .402. l'-4 sq in. make 1 sq. foot
The Piaster of Turkey, .04 4.
9sq. ft.
" 1 sq. yard
The Dollar of Mexico, .909. 30X sq yds. " 1 sq. rod
The Rouble of Russia, .66 9. 40 sq. rods " 1 rood
The Milreis of Brazil, .545. 4 roods
" 1 acre
The Peso of Cuba,
.92 5. 640 acres
" 1 sq. mile
The Dollar of Canada, 1.000.
*NOTE—£. stands for Pounds
Solid or Cubic Measure
Sterling; s, for Shillings; d. for
1728cu i n . m a k e l cu. foot
Fence.
Avoirdupois Weight
27 cu. ft.
" 1 cu. yard
128cu. ft. " 1 cd.-wood
2414: cu. ft. " 1 pch. stone
16 drams (dr.) make 1 oz.
NOTK—A
wood is
16 oz.
" 1 R). 8 feet long,cord ofwidn and a4 pile
4 feet
feet
100 ibs.
" 1 cwt. high; therefore, 8x4x4- -128 feet.
20 cwt.
" 1 ton A perch of stone or brick i* lt»K
ft. long; i K f t . wide and 1 it high.
Troy Weight
Dry Measure
24 grains (gr.) make 1 pwt. 2 pints make
20 pennyworth " 1 ounce. 8 quarts "
12 ounces
•" 1 D>.
4 pecks "
• j,
1 quart
1 peck
1 bushel-
Average Velocity of
Various Bodies
Miles
per Hr.
A man walks
3
A horsa trots
7
A horse runs
20
A steamboat runs
18
A sailing vessel runs
10
A rifle ball moves
1000
Light moves 192,000 miles
per second.
Electricity moves 288,000
miles per second.
George Washington died the
last hour of the dai , the lust day
of the wet-k, 01 the last month of
the year, of the !ar>t year of the
last century ,
UfKUld Measure
4 gills
make 1 pint
2 pints
1 quart
4 4uarts
" 1 gallon
31 '4 gallons " 1 barrel
2 barrels
" I hogshead
f Measure
24 sheets maKe 1 quire
20 quires
I ream
2 reams
"
I bundle
10 bundles
"
1 bale
Miscellaneous Things
12 u n i t s make
12 dozen "
12 gross "
20 units "
1 dozen
1 gross
1 great gross
1 score
Bible Arithmetic
Ezekial's reed was nearly
11 feet; a cubit was nearly 22
inches; a hand's breadth is
equal to 3£i inches; a finger's
breadth is equal to a little
less than 1 inch; a shekel of
silver was about 65c.; a
shekel of gold was $10; a
talent of silver was $2.000;
a talent of gold was nearly
$30,000; a piece jf silver, or
a penny, was 17c; a farthing
was equal to .Olc ; a mite was
less than T f a r t h i n g ; a gerah
was .03c. an ephah, or both,
contained 4 gallons and 5
pints; a hin was 3 quarts and
3 pints; an omer was 6 pints;
a cab was 5 pints.
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/908f3884bda5162f05badbec3b976572.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
��������������������
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
51
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 13 [April 1, 1914 - June 30, 1914]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1914
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
33.6 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_013_1914_0401_1914_0630
Description
An account of the resource
Diary entries range from April 1, 1914 through June 30, 1914. These entries are quite often about the weather on that specific day, and the work that can be done. Greene also frequently writes about the church, the sermons, pastors, bible studies, attendance, and Sunday school. People and places mentioned in these entries include Joel Greene, J.R. Wilson, George Madran, Roan Creek Valley, Stone Mountain and Beaver Dam.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Teachers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
Archie Warren
Beaver Dam
Brother Trivett
cars
Carter County
church
corn
country store
court
David Laurence
drought
drummers
Elizabethton
farming
garden
George Madran
Hubbard Swift
Hunting
J.F. Eggers
J.R. Wilson
Joe Greene
Mabel
mattock
mill
Neva
road reports
Roan Creek Valley
shelling corn
Singing
Stone Mountain
Sunday School
T.A. Eggers
taxes
The Great Singing
Thomas Greer
warrant
Will Norris
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b4f1cc4ae494de135b6f9e0fcf612d2c.pdf
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/5545a85fc48539e157e9b79ec7e70d8b.pdf
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Text
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
53
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 14 [July 1, 1914 - September 30, 1914]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1914
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
45.7 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_014_1914_0701_1914_0930
Description
An account of the resource
These diary entries are from July 1, 1914 through September 30, 1914. The diary is based around the actions and thoughts of Andrew Jackson Greene. He wrote about work on the farm, Fourth of July festivities and the details of church life. He also included much opinion about religion, and people. Community members involved include James Horton, P.C. Younce, and J.R. Wilson, and many more.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Teachers--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
baseball
Boone
Brother Trivett
calamity howlers
cherry picking
church
corn
David Stern
farming
G.C. Norris
G.P. Sherrill
Harrison Church
hay
hoeing corn
J.R. Garland
J.R. Wilson
James Horton
Literary Society
mill
P.C. Younce
Republican Convention
road inspection
Roy Eggers
schoolhouse
sermon
Silverstone
Singing
Solomon Younce
Sunday School
trial
Upland
W.H. Campbell
World War I
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/383054ec60b53ac90cee3e9c5b64d571.pdf
06eb7b54dde8a00c5ee5f153d27b03f6
PDF Text
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/955f598c88898e1213d24445a9d5a2b7.pdf
58bf947a01c37e7805a2d06425165962
PDF Text
Text
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
50
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 20 [March 13, 1916 - May 14, 1916]
Description
An account of the resource
This diary includes entries from each day from May 13, 1916 through June 14, 1916, as well as 18 pages of school notes taken by Greene as he worked at Appalachian Training School. He wrote each day about the weather, the church, the friends that he visited, and the work around the farm that he had done.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1916
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
30.0 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_020_1916_0515_1916_0614
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County--Diaries
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
Appalachian Training School
corn
Elizabethton
farming
Mabel
mill
Neva
Reverend Wilson
Sunday School
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/c6d49fc60dc6c5a2e59073bb95d1c510.pdf
288cc272e5f20cce284aa0112525338e
PDF Text
Text
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/48175b7d62ad60b15b857f2bb66f8fe4.pdf
8536178904eb086f030d5e75424de6ec
PDF Text
Text
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
73
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 22 [June 15, 1916 - October 12, 1916]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1916
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
55.2MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_022_1916_0615_1916_1012
Description
An account of the resource
This diary includes entries from June 15, 1916 through October 12, 1916. Each day Greene wrote about his work on the farm, his friends, his family, the church, and community events. Important events and people include D.E. Benfield, Mabel Farmer’s Union Rally, J.H. Isaacs and many more.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
Appalachian Training School White Hall
Boone
Colonel Fred Olds
Cone Lakes
Culver's Mill
D.D. Daugherty
Farmer's Union Rally
farming
Hubbard Swift
Literary Society
Mabel
Professor Downum
R.L. Doughton
Reverend Adams
Reverend Waters
summer session
Sunday School
World War I
Zionville
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/7738b3ea7614a7fc7dd0a9c6a43e679f.pdf
973506315fa8a55c02bbb0d92b57bc8a
PDF Text
Text
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Jackson Greene Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. <br /><br /><strong>Biographical Note.</strong> Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190">AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906-1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright - United States</a>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Number of pages
81
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Diary of Andrew Jackson Greene, Volume 81 [July 10, 1931 - September 9, 1931]
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank">Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1931
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
81.1 MB
Language
A language of the resource
English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
105_081_1931_0710_1931_0909
Description
An account of the resource
From July 10 through September 9, 1931, Andrew Jackson Greene recorded this diary about his daily life. He wrote about the weather, the church and the community. At this point, his children were leaving home and he was realizing that it would be a struggle to keep his farm going. He was busy between the farm, the schoolwork, and being a minister. He knew he was aging and found it hard to finish work many days. He also wrote about the college. They reached the 700 mark. He wrote these things in addition to the smallest details of his everyday life.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Baptists--Clergy--North Carolina--Watauga County
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">No Copyright – United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Diaries
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"> Andrew Jackson Greene collection </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Watauga County (N.C.)
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
<a title="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" href="https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html" target="_blank"> https://www.geonames.org/4497707/watauga-county.html</a>
Appalachian State Teachers College
B.B. Dougherty
Black Bear Trail. Sam Atkins
Boone
Daniel Boone Trail
Depression
Elizabethton
Elk Park
farming
Football
H.R. Eggers
Mabel
Meat Camp
Mr. Hampton Rich
President Dougherty
Rich Mountain
Sunday School
Vilas
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/6c4a5f2dae4fd40f55bbb08ebb2b6839.pdf
f97d9ff4852328a48e1b3bcca294aa25
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter from Alice Kirby to Ada Kirby, 19 April 1885
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-04-19
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
letter_04_19_1885.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This letter from Alice Kirby to Ada Kirby, her aunt, talks about the farm they live on in Kansas, and the process of plowing. Alice mentions that she is sad to hear that some of her aunt Fannie's children have died.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Shawnee County (Kan.)
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Ada Kirby
Alice Kirby
corn
Fannie Kirby
farming
horses
Kansas
Kingsville
Kirby family
letter
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/83978bf3a552d8048b3668ffe218be1d.pdf
dfd70e364e49ddda99fd6adde40b8f3a
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Ada Kirby from Alice Kirby, 15 March 1885
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-03-15
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
letter_03_15_1885.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This letter from Alice Kirby to her aunt, Ada Kirby, discusses the farming life that Alice leads in Kansas, where her father, Samuel Kirby, moved the family to. Alice says she is late in responding to the letter from her aunt because they had moved to a new farm where they are tending to 135 acres of corn. Alice says she wishes that their new house was closer to neighbors as they all feel lonely.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Ada Kirby
Alice Kirby
corn
family letters
farming
Kansas
Kirby family
letter
school
Snow
wheat
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/5733802e1bb8eb9738ac0052f839af8b.pdf
dfbf9ec2bf6052bbf2ddd1ecdf1d5db7
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Ada Kirby from Laura Kirby, 21 February 1885
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-02-21
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
letter_02_21_1885.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This letter from Laura Kirby to her aunt Ada talks about Samuel J. Kirby's moving the family to a new farm. Laura says that she and her sister Alice have left school and discusses the winter weather.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Ada Kirby
Bruce Kenny
family letters
farming
Helton
Kansas
Kirby family
Laura Kirby
letter
North Carolina
North Topeka
Samuel J. Kirby
school
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/1cf51855c4f1e6829f8f0242a522d670.pdf
753f7959e9765d8004405d298668c855
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Ada Kirby from Alice Kirby, 16 October 1881
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1881-10-16
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
letter_10_16_1881.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This letter from Alice Kirby to her aunt Ada Kirby talks about life on the Kansas farm where Alice and her family live. Alice talks about going to school, fairs, and other sources of entertainment, but her letter is focused on the price of various goods. She goes in detail about how much money was made from everything they raised on their farm, and what the going price is for various crops.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Alice Kirby
crops
farming
Guy Kirby
Kansas
Kirby family
Leavenworth Kansas
letter
North Topeka
prices
school
Virgil Kirby
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/66bdf7286f6b10570f768f44b9542ea5.pdf
673126d0ef4e645cdca0794339854a80
PDF Text
Text
����
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter from Laura Kirby to Mr. and Mrs. M.F. Kirby, 10 October 1887
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1887-10-10
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
letter_10_10_1887.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This is a letter from Laura Kirby to her uncle Millard Fillmore Kirby, and his wife. Laura talks about the farm they live on, and how her brother and father are making hay in the fields. Laura mentions that she was very saddened by the news that her aunt Ada Kirby had died.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Ada Kirby
family letters
farming
Guy Kirby
Ida Kirby
Kansas
Kingsville
Kirby family
Laura Kirby
letter
M.F. Kirby
Millard Fillmore Kirby
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/6eb42989f80c59566ccd9cd0afc752e5.pdf
8a73b95b3bf084872798916c474b7a10
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letters to Ada Kirby from Alice Kirby and Laura Kirby, 4 February 1882
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1882-02-04
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
letter_02_04_1882.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
These letters from Laura Kirby and Alice Kirby to their Aunt Ada Kirby discuss life on the farm in Kansas that their father, Samuel J. Kirby rents. Laura talks about going to school, while Alice discusses various domestic events and the price of crops.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Ada Kirby
Alice Kirby
Betty Hodge
Bruce Kenny
family letters
farming
Guy Kirby
Kansas
Kirby family
Laura Kirby
letter
North Topeka
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/05bcca6e591d7c7d7c7f841c54c24efc.pdf
f1f8a45fefb9e2504d776ae88fed7d10
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
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<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
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<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
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Title
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Letter from John Pennington to Luke Eller, 25 June 1858
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1858-06-25
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
2 pages
Identifier
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Letter_06_25_1858.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This is a letter from John Pennington to his cousin Luke Eller. John asks Luke for some of his seed and tells him that he has finished cutting his wheat crop. The letter ends with a complaint about the issue of trade in John’s area. John says that prices are too low to make a good profit.
Language
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English
Source
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<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
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Subject
The topic of the resource
Crops
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Ashe County (N.C.)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
Spatial Coverage
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https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
Type
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Text
Format
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PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Eller family
farming
John Pennington
letter
Luke Eller
Monroe County
Tennessee
wheat
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/0edd9641b672d1a99b304ff8d634d43e.pdf
64171e9b5157b3c9f867f791b3f25b48
PDF Text
Text
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kirby and Eller Family Letters
Description
An account of the resource
The Kirby and Eller Family Letters contain correspondence between the Kirby and Eller families of Ashe County, North Carolina. The letters focus mainly on day-to-day events such as planting and harvesting crops, health and illness, and household tasks, but also include references to the Civil War. The original letters of Collection 495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters, 1826-1938 are in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection.
<div class="subnote ">
<p><span class="less">Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.<br /><br />Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King<span class="elipses"></span></span><span class="more"> on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.</span></p>
<span class="note-content readmore expanded"><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander">See less</a></span></div>
Source
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<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
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<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
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Title
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Letter from D.L. Pickett, 13 April 1832
Date
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1832-04-13
Extent
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2 pages
Identifier
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Letter_1832.pdf
Description
An account of the resource
This letter from D. L. Pickett to two of his friends, William (Wm.) Daniels and Luke Eller, discusses Pickett’s recent move across the American Midwest. He mentions the natural geography of the country he tours, discusses people he sees, and includes the prices of various goods that he notes in the stores.
Language
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English
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p><a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165">AC.495 Kirby and Eller Family Letters</a></p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a title="In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted" href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-EDU/1.0/?language=en 8" target="_blank"> In Copyright – Educational Use Permitted </a>
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
|3|0.0000000|0.0000000|osm
Ashe County (N.C.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Midwest
Travel
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a title=" Kirby and Eller Family Letters" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/17" target="_blank"> Kirby and Eller Family Letters </a>
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Spatial characteristics of the resource.
https://www.geonames.org/4453028/ashe-county.html
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Text
Format
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PDF
Letters (Correspondence)
Basin Knob
crops
D.L. Pickett
farming
Goods
Johnson County
Kentucky
letter
Luke Eller
Missouri
moving
North Carolina
William Daniels
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/65294dd3a42086d804b328b5020c7683.pdf
8f3e93d509b1a8423ede8ffc3295b8e0
PDF Text
Text
Oral History Transcript
Appalachian State University • Collection 111, Tape 249
Interviewee: Early Earl
Interviewer: Barbara Greenberg
22 August 1974
Transcriber: Marty Tschetter, October 2011
Background
Early Earp was born on July 31, 1891 in the Bairds Creek Community of Watauga County, North
Carolina and died on December 25, 1988. His parents were Lewis Calloway Earp (b. June 5, 1844
– d. November 11, 1919) and Rebecca Williams Earp (b. May 15, 1861 – d. March 27, 1937).
They were farmers and raised a family of fourteen children. Many of Mr. Earl’s siblings had long
lives. His parents were originally from Wilkes County and his maternal grandfather was killed in
the Civil War. The interview took place at his house, the original property that his parent’s
owned.
TAPE INDEX
Counter Index Topic
06
Introduction including when and where he grew up. Early
wages.
146
Farm work, briefly mentions working in a Burke County
sawmill, and the U.S. Army during World War I.
328
Mentions his living brothers Willie and Coy, and sister Nora.
429
His parents grew up in Wilkes County. His maternal
grandfather was killed in the Civil War, and his father died in
1919 at age 74, his mother died in 1937.
546
Parents names were Lewis Callaway Earp and his mother was
Rebecca Williams Earp. His father bulldozed the original
family home place circa 1900.
643
Entire family worked on the farm, mentioned that only other
work for females might be in someone’s house. Wages were
typically fifty cents a week.
749
Talks about how crops were planted, and how the quantity
was determined. References growing sugar cane for
1
�molasses, selling wheat for flour, canning vegetables, drying
pumpkin, and helping neighbors hoe crops.
1052
Recalls a corn shucking held by a neighbor Mart Isaacs (b.
October 1851 – d. March 1938). Describes the specifics that
include shucking until 3am, food was cooked by the women
and there was a large gathering.
1215
Explains how farmers used to plant by the moon.
1326
Making sauerkraut, selling it in Lenoir, Gastonia, and
Charlotte. Emphasizes that it had to be made at the ‘right’
time.
1443
Growing up his family had plenty of food, even during the
Depression.
1537
Breakfast typically included biscuits and parched their own
coffee. Later they purchased a local brand called Pilot Knob.
1701
Price for coffee used to be five cents a pound, and sugar was
three to five cents. References the Smithey Store opening up
in Boone. Mr. Smithey was from Wilkesboro.
1812
Talks about the Depression, did not affect his family too
much. His father positioned himself never to be in debt to
others. References the Federal Farm Loan Act enacted under
President Woodrow Wilson in 1917. Recalls a conversation
that his father and neighbor Mr. Moody had about the
program.
2102
Briefly talks about the 1940 flood in Watauga County and
what he recalled about ending the Tweetsie Railroad service.
2115
Talks about cash crops, he started raising tobacco in 1931,
bringing it to market in Abingdon, Virginia and Johnson City,
Tennessee and also selling Cabbage. He sold beans in
Mountain City, Tennessee.
2419
Did not get rich selling produce, did not own a lot of farm
machinery. Mentions Frank Taylor in Valle Crucis told farm
machinery, and then in 1944 he entered into the cattle business.
2
�2815
Talks briefly about the county agriculture agent and his
opinion on his services.
SIDE TWO
03
Continues with his feelings about the county agriculture
agent.
210
Talks about the school he attended including the location. He
only obtained the seventh grade. His teachers were Powell
Harmon, Frank Wilson, and Marion Thomas.
346
He attended a school for only three to four months of the
year. He estimated about forty students.
509
He reflected on his schooling and how education had
changed in the 1970s. He felt that current students did not
have a lot of direction. His teachers were very religious
people and had students read a passage from the bible every
morning. As a result he felt that that was a positive that he
experienced in school.
654
The Baptist denomination was the most dominate. Also
recalled a presence of the Methodist Church. He shared his
personal disdain for the growth of the Catholic Church in
western North Carolina.
830
Funerals were held at the home and all the arrangements
were taken care of by family and neighbors.
1003
The Danner Cemetery was a local community plot. A lot of
his family was buried there. It was named after Fred Danner,
the first person buried.
1100
Briefly talked about local stores. Newt Mast had a big store in
Cove Creek, and Will Mast had one in Valle Crucis.
Remembers older residents playing checkers.
1217
Asked about what was happening in Boone during the
1910s-20s. He recalled county judge Greene, Rob Laney, and
the Councill family.
3
�13:42
Talks about the first car that he saw in Boone, was owned by
man from Lenoir. People were mesmerized. He bought his
first car in 1924, the first resident in his local community.
1539
Talks about hauling people in his car, owning a Model-T Ford
Roadster, there were no speedometers on cars at that time.
1647
Community leaders during this time were his father, Lindsey
Trivett, and Lane Farmer. He felt they were respected
because they were older.
1805
Reflects how times have changed. He felt that in the past,
people cared more for their neighbors well-being, especially
when sick.
2212
There was not a lot of formal entertainment. He recalled corn
shucking’s, log rolling’s, and talking as fellowship. Movie
theatres did not exist when he was growing up and were
subsequently not important at this time in his life.
2315
Expressed how growing up people helped each other out. If
his family had excess produce, they would share it with
neighbors without expecting payment in return.
2454
Asked about superstitions, he remembers people talking
about witches, but he did not believe in them. He did share a
story about his brother attending a funeral circa 1900. His
brother had planned to meet up with a friend afterward. They
both road horses and it was dark. They also both wore white
shirts, which they faintly could see each other, which
‘spooked’ both men.
2756
Talked about his mother spinning yarn and wool to make
socks and their clothes for the family. His family did not have
excessive clothes, but enough to last. He recalled being a
mid-teenager when he bought his first pair of clothes from a
store.
4
�BG: Barbara Greenberg
EE: Early Earp
0:06
BG: This is a recording of Mr. "Early" Earp done by Barbara Greenberg at his home on Bairds
Creek Road. Today's date is August 22nd, 1974.
BG: Well Mr. Earp -- do you want to start off by telling me a little bit about yourself -- where
you were born and when you were born?
EE: Well, I was born in 1891. I grew up right up in the field there, no houses matter fact.
(Rooster in background).
BG: Is the house still standing?
EE: No, its been torn down for seventy-five years. So I was raised up top there. I live on the
place I was born on (laughs)....and own the land I was born on...
BG: Great.
EE: There are not too many men that can say that.
BG: Right.
EE: So we had a hard time coming up. When I got big enough to work, we worked for twentyfive cents a day. And it was....I guess for about ten years before I ever got more than twentyfives cents a day. Because I started when I was small. We finally got up to where we could make
a man's wage and it was fifty cents a day and sometimes it was seventy-five (cents).
1:46
BG: What would you do, what kind of work?
EE: Farm work, farm work. Oh no, there was no work like any public works in this country at
that time.
BG: Wow.
EE: You see, there was for years and years -- I can't even tell you how many years it was before
anything...and sawmilling was about the next industry that we had in this country. When I was
16 years old I went to...down in Burke County to (inaudible) Sawmill, a (inaudible) and worked
for him and got a dollar a day (laughs)…and board. And so, and then in 1917, they took me in
5
�the army. I spent two years in the army and then came back and have been a farmer practically
ever since.
BG: Okay, tell me...you said that you were born right now the road here, did your parents own
that land?
EE: Ma’am?
BG: Did your parents own the land that you...
EE: Yes ma’am.
BG: How many acres did they have?
EE: Well, I wouldn't be able to tell you lady...I guess...well, they owned way up above where I
do now. I guess it was one hundred and twenty-five or fifty acres in all.
BG: And how many acres do you own today?
EE: fifty-six.
3:28
BG: Did you have any brothers and sisters?
EE: Oh yes, I have one sister living and two brothers. Willie Earp is the oldest...he is seventyone. No wait a minute...eighty-one. And then Coy, he is about seventy-five. And Nora is eightyone. That's my brothers and sister. They live…Nora lives about two-three miles over here. And
Willie and Coy live just up the road here -- the first two houses above here.
BG: That's great that y'all still all live so close together.
4:20
EE: Oh yeah.
BG: That's nice.
EE: So, we were born right around here and we stayed pretty well put together ever since
(chuckles).
4:29
BG: Did your parents…were they born in this area?
6
�EE: No, my father and mother both were born in Wilkes County. I can't tell you exactly
where…but they were raised both up to (inaudible). And then mother she came with her
mother to Ashe County and stayed over there a year, then moved here to this county. And
that's been a long time ago (both laugh). My grandfather on my mother's side got killed in the
Civil War. And then my father, he lived until he was 74 years old and nine months. I believe he
died in 1919.
5:46
BG: What was their names?
EE: Well, my father was Lewis Callaway Earp (b. June 5, 1844 – d. November 11, 1919) and my
mother was Rebecca Williams Earp (b. May 15, 1861 – d. March 27, 1937) (chuckles). And she's
been dead for thirty-eight years.
Of course we (inaudible) on the farm (inaudible) and well, I went 'up north' and worked in
Cleveland for a little while, but practically I’ve been right here in close.
My daddy bulldozed it, the place, right up here, where my brother lives and we moved up there
in 1909. And we've been right here ever since.
6:43
BG: Did your brothers and sisters, did you all share doing the work on the farm? Did your sisters
do one thing or did you all work together?
EE: We worked together. There was a big crowd of us (laughs) and it took us all to make a living.
You take (inaudible). I was young, a lot younger than I am now (both laugh). There wasn't any
work at all for anybody unless it just…work for a woman, a girl could get a job maybe staying
with someone for fifty cents a week. And that was about the wages, about fifty cents a week.
But we always worked and managed together.
7:36
BG: How did you determine how much of each crop you should plant each year?
EE: Each crop?
BG: How much did you, you know, how did you decide how much to plant each year?
7:49
EE: (Chuckles)...my father, always thought that he didn’t have around fifteen acres in corn, than
he wouldn’t have corn (inaudible). Now of course back in his day, they figured it out...twenty or
7
�something like twenty or twenty-five bushels to the acre...is as much as they could produce.
Well now, you can go way up to a hundred and fifty -- two hundred. That’s a lot different
between now and then. And we always had a cane patch to raise molasses and that was our
major sweetener. There was no such a thing as buying sugar in a store at that time. We had
always sold our wheat and then sold our flour.
We raised it in the garden to get things...vegetables. We had 'canning'. There was not any
canning back at that time (referring to canned products bought at stores). We had to dry most
of our stuff that we preserved for food. I don't expect that you've ever heard of drying
pumpkin? (Laughs).
BG: Drying pumpkin? No, I....
EE: We used to dry pumpkin, and that was...we would hang it up on poles over the fireplace
and dry it. And then beans, dried beans, and fruit, and peaches. Stuff like that. We didn't have
any canning, couldn't can. Lord I was...I don't know...we didn't have any canning and the thing
about it...for a long time. I can't tell you...my memory is too short (chuckles). So that is just
about the way we lived.
We worked together, farmers worked together then. You know what I mean? We would help
our neighbors hoe their crop and then they would help us to hoe ours. We would work them
out, and then we would do the same thing. We would have logrolling, corn shucking...
10:42
BG: Can you remember any particular log rolling or corn shucking that you could tell us
about…something happening or something like that?
10:52
EE: Well, I can remember corn shucking. There was an old fellow Isaacs, uncle (James) Mart
Isaacs (b. October 1851 – d. March 1938). Right up here on this hill, up on top of the mountain.
He had a big field of corn and invited all of his neighbors around to help him shuck corn on a
certain day. Well, we shucked corn until dinner then we went back and shucked until night and
they all agreed that they would shuck until they were done if they had supper. And they sent to
the house...the women folk fixed supper and carried it up on the mountain and shucked until
we got done at three o'clock the next morning (laughs). And he had six hundred bushels of
corn.
11:50
BG: Oh. Wow.
8
�EE: That's about the best of them that I can remember (both laugh). But we (inaudible) corn
shucking and log rolling and things like that anymore. That doesn't happen much any more.
12:15
BG: Did your family believe in planting by the moon?
EE: A lot. Yes, they did. They wouldn't plant corn on the new moon at all. They thought that it
would grow too tall and that there would be no ear on it? And it don't. You plant a crop of corn
in particular on the new of the moon and the ear will look about 'so long' (uses hands to show
size) sticks right up like that. And you plant it at the right time and the ear will be that long (uses
hands again to show size).
12:59
And in fact I believe in...I believe in signs...which, probably you don't.
BG: I do, I do.
EE: (Laughs).
BG: I do, very much so.
EE: Well I do. The Bible speaks of signs....and says you will 'watch the moon' and 'watch the
stars' or so and so. Well, we both do it.
BG: I think so.
13:26
EE: You take for making kraut (sauerkraut). If you make kraut when the signs are wrong your
kraut will be slimier or kind of (inaudible) not good. But if you make it at the right time, it’s
good.
BG: When is the right time for making kraut? I'm getting ready to make some and I don't want
to do it on the wrong day (both laugh).
EE: Well, I'm about to tell you...when it’s a good time to make it. I used to know. I've told a
hundred thousand women when to make kraut. I used to truck it and down the country, down
in Lenoir, and Gastonia, and Charlotte, and down in that way. And women folks would always
know…would want to know what time was a good time to make kraut. And I had to tell them
(laughs). So that's just about the story now...(laughs).
14:43
9
�BG: Well, now tell me...were there any years when your family didn't grow enough food to
keep you all winter?
EE: Not that I remember of. There was a big crowd of us as I told you. We had lots of help...and
we put out enough that we (inaudible) a few times. We would run out of corn in the
summertime and then just buy it by the bushel if you could find it. Very few times.
15:37
Back when I was just a young boy (inaudible), we didn't have biscuits every morning for
breakfast. There was just no flour to be bought in the bag at all. You had to take it to the mill
where they grind to make flour. So it was harder to get flour than most anything. And
coffee...buy green coffee and parch it...on your fire…fireplace.
BG: Did that coffee taste as good?
EE: I believe it was better (laughs). If you got a good parch...we just used to call it parching
coffee. If you got a good java done it made a delicious coffee. And then...later on in the years
we got to buying coffee from the stores. I forget the name of the brand of coffee...Pilot Knob
was one.
17:01
BG: Pilot Knob?
EE: Oh yes, you've seen that I guess....
BG: I think so, I think so....
EE: Well that had come in three pound buckets...and it was good...and others. But coffee used
to be five cents a pound. And sugar was three to five cents (laughs). And it doesn't sound
possible does it?
BG: Sound great (both laugh). Sounds great.
EE: This Smithey...that used to be over...well, the Smithey Store its in Boone today. There was
an old man from Wilkesboro (who) came up here and built a store in Boone and his name was
Will Smithey. And he sold fatback meat for three cents a pound, and coffee for three cents, and
sugar for three cents. But now its...past (laughs).
BG: It has, for sure.
18:12
10
�BG: When the Depression hit did that have much of an affect on your family?
EE: How's that?
BG: When the Depression came in 1929, did that have much of an effect on your family?
EE: Well, not too much. We...we tried the farm to make enough...it didn't hurt us. There was no
work to do and we got along just about as good as usual. It didn't affect us or me individually
much more than any other time. My daddy would never go in debt, above what he thought he
could come out at. When he made a debt he promised when to pay it and he wanted to pay it
when that time came. And he always made plans to do that, so he wasn't in debt when the
Depression came.
In 1917, Woodrow Wilson put up the share of Federal Land Bank business. He is the one that
organized federal land.
A neighbor up here Mr. Moody...he was talking to my daddy one day about how great that
federal land bank was and would be for the farmer. And my daddy, he told him that he didn't
believe in it. And Mr. Moody said that was one of the greatest things that (inaudible).
He said (his father), “Mr. Moody -- there will be lots of men that will lose their home right over
that one thing.” Well, in the Depression it came true. Now my daddy he wouldn't give a
mortgage on his place to the Federal Land Bank or nobody else. So when it came it didn’t affect
him…we just….
BG: Kept on...
EE: Kept it going. And today, I don't believe in putting yourself under a bigger obligation than
you can ask.
BG: That's right, that's right. You can get in trouble.
21:02
BG: Tell me, what about in 1940 when the big flood came. Did it flood this area very bad?
EE: No. The biggest hurt in this county, we had a little railroad coming from Johnson City to
Boone. When that ‘40 flood came it washed the railroad tracks out from Linville to Boone. They
had to…I think the train itself was on the other end of the mine…at Johnson City. But the flood,
it didn’t come in…so they took the track up and hauled it to Johnson City or somewhere. But
individually it didn’t hurt this county too bad, only the railroad. And it’s known as “Tweetsie”
now (laughs).
BG: Right, right.
11
�22:15
BG: Did you family ever have any cash crops?
EE: Cash crops? Well, in 1931 I began to raise tobacco. You could sell tobacco for three and
four cents a pound. (Laughs). We hauled it to Abingdon, Virginia and sold it for three and four
cents. Of course that’s not much of a ‘cash crop’ (laughs). At that time of course tobacco
(inaudible). Last year (1973) it sold for better than a dollar a pound.
BG: Did most of the farmers that did raise ‘cash crops’ would they sell to large businessmen or
to small businessmen?
EE: There were not many ‘cash crops’ that I can recall. Now tobacco and cabbage were the
main money crops. We had to haul our cabbage down south to Salem. And tobacco we had to
haul to Abingdon (Virginia) or to Johnson City, Tennessee. Because there was no other market.
Now beans, we raised a lot of beans for a good part of the year in this county. We sold them in
Mountain City, Tennessee.
24:19
BG: Was there any politics involved with who you sold your crops to, or what kind of price that
you got for your crop?
EE: Politics involved? Not that I knew of. We sold to just some company that was put up at
Mountain City at these tobacco markets and I don’t reckon there was any politics. We didn’t get
rich out of it anyway (both laugh). I raised one crop of tobacco and took it to Abingdon and sold
it and I didn’t have quite enough to pay for (inaudible) bill (laughs). We didn’t get rich.
BG: Yes, I understand that. What about farm machinery?
EE: Farm machinery? Well, now (inaudible) in my shed I’ve never owned any…farm
equipment…very little. I’m not a big farmer. I just tried raise enough to carry me over from one
year to the next (chuckles). If I had to have any machinery I would just hire it from someone.
BG: Now when all the modern farm machinery started coming out, did this have much of an
affect on the farmer?
EE: Oh no (emphatically).
BG: It didn’t?
EE: Very little. For years and years…in 1915 or ’16, they gradually picked up this and that and
the other in farm equipment. Now I believe that the corn planter was about the first thing that I
remember. Then this fellow (inaudible) [Krueger??] with a fellow Taylor.
12
�Do you know Frank Taylor? Over in Valle Crucis. His daddy sold turning plows and corn planters
and stuff like than and finally got to selling mowing machines…driven by horses. Then he went
out of business. And they kept getting a little bigger and a little bigger, and a little bigger.
And then in 1944 I got into the (inaudible) cattle business. And I raised (inaudible) cattle
business for…I guess ten or fifteen years.
BG: Who would you sell your cattle to?
EE: Just to whoever would (inaudible) (laughs). I took them ….I sold them up at Bristol and sell
them at (inaudible) market and then I would take them to Statesville, North Carolina and sell
them.
BG: How often would you take them there?
EE: Truck them. Haul them in a truck and then we…sold them off individually. Somebody would
come along and want to buy something…a male or a nice heifer, and just the two of us would
make a deal.
28:55
BG: Were there any government agencies that helped the farmer at that time?
EE: Well, not that I know of. The county agent came into this county about…1930 or along
about there. But I never thought that he requested too much of the county or any body else
(both laugh).
BG: Well, I didn’t say that.
EE: What?
BG: Well, I didn’t say that.
EE: Well (emphatically), anything he tried to get people to do never did help us any. I think a
county agent works at the ‘wrong end of the line’.
A county agent lady, is to…for instance say you’re a man now and you own a little farm out
here….
30:10
END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE; BEGIN SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE
BG: …and the big farmer doesn’t give the little farmer a chance.
13
�EE: Well, of course…if the county agent would work with the little farmer and tell him
plans…work related…he would improve farms all over the country….
BG: Would that cause prices to come down because there would be more produce? And than
prices would come down…is that right?
EE: No, I wouldn’t think so. It would help us all. We would have more of bigger things and that
would open up better markets, bigger markets all over the country. If we had the cooperation
of the county agent and so on….I think that it would be beneficial to everybody.
1:17
Now when I was in the (inaudible) business we had several folks in this county that were raising
cattle. Well, the county agent worked with the ‘big man’ and he wouldn’t try to help the ‘little
man’ at all. That was discouraging to us. So that’s…the better your products and the more of
the ‘right’ kind of products that you got to sell will bring people in that would never see you
otherwise.
BG: Yes, yes.
EE: Wouldn’t you think so?
2:10
BG: Yes. Now tell me a little bit about your schooling. Was there a school around here?
EE: Yes, there used to be a schoolhouse up here at the forks in the road…where you turn down
this way (gestures with hands). Where you turn down there used to be a schoolhouse just
above the road after the forks in the road. One teacher schoolroom. I started school in that
building.
I forget of my teacher’s name at that time. It was a woman but I can’t tell you her name.
Eventually we built another schoolhouse down this way (points with arm) from that one. I went
to two schoolteachers…from the name of Powell Harmon and Frank Wilson. Oh I had three, and
Marion Thomas. I never got any farther up than the seventh grade. But the seventh grade was
not as far as teachers got at that time (both laugh).
3:46
The first school I went to was three months long. Well, we had three months a year of school
for….I don’t know how many years. The last school I went to was four months. We had to study
like everything to make it (laughs).
BG: How many students in their schoolhouse?
14
�EE: How many rooms?
BG: How many students?
EE: Students? Well, I declare I couldn’t hardly say. But I guess it was thirty-five to forty with all
the children in the community there…and just one teacher now had to do it. He had to start at
the beginning of the day at 8 o’clock and work till four or five to get home from school
(chuckles).
BG: Tell me, do you think that the school system was better then with all the small community
schools or do you think its better now with the one great big school that busses children in from
all over the county?
5:09
EE: Well that’s a hard question (laughs). In some way I think the old way was best. For the
teacher taught the young the ‘right way’. Now they just about turn the students loose and let
them learn themselves how. We got teachers that ought to be ‘digging roots’ for a living (both
laugh).
Now, my teachers that I had…the biggest part of them were religious teachers. One teacher
was a preacher and he taught school (rooster in background) throughout the year and he did
teach us ‘right’. Well, the other two were religious men but they were not preachers. But they
taught us and they had prayer in the schoolroom every day, every morning. One of the students
had to read a verse or two in the scripture and then they would pray themselves (rooster in
background). So I would say that I appreciated the ‘old way’ better (laughs) than what we got
now.
6:54
BG: What church was the most dominate around here at that time?
EE: Church? Baptist.
BG: Baptist.
EE: Well, we had the Methodist Church over at Valle Crucis and (inaudible). But the Baptist was
the leading church. I don’t know if you want this, but in World War II, when Kennedy (quickly
corrects self) Franklin D. Roosevelt was President of the United States, the Catholic Church –
now you may be a Catholic? (to the interviewer and laughs). But the Catholic Church…the
closest was about forty to fifty miles in Spruce Pine over here. And when he went out of the
presidency there was a Catholic Church in Lenoir and Johnson City and Boone and…I mean in
Blowing Rock and Lenoir and all around here. Of course they were small, but they came in and
now they are all over the nation. I am not trying to fight any denomination but I think that we
15
�could have gotten along just as fine without them (both laugh).
8:30
BG: What were funerals like and weddings? Were they held at the church?
EE: I didn’t understand you.
BG: Were funerals and weddings held at the church?
EE: Funerals? Well, sometimes. There was a long time that they were not. But weddings…it was
just the right thing to have a wedding in the church. But now back (to funerals)…there was a
long time that for a funeral they just sent out and got some preacher who would come and
preach the funeral and the neighbors took care of everything.
Of course I am not fighting the funeral home, they are nice but it took a lot of the love out of
the people. Don’t you think?
BG: I think so, I think so. People used to be buried wherever they owned land, is that correct?
They didn’t have big graveyards like they do today.
10:03
EE: Well, I wouldn’t think that they had (graveyards) just on their land. But a lot of them, you
are right. There has always been – ever since I can remember – a cemetery right up here on the
hill. It goes with the Danner Graveyard and there was a family of Danners’ that lived right across
the hill over there.
Old uncle Fred Danner was the first ever buried up there and it started from that name and it
goes with the Danner Graveyard. Some of my people are buried up there. Well just about all my
people that are dead are buried up there.
11:00
BG: You started to tell me before we started that there were only two stores in this county.
You want to tell us about those and what when on at the stores. Did people gather there and sit
around and play banjos? Tell us what it was like?
EE: (Laughs) Well, I couldn’t tell you much about that now lady. That’s all I knew about the
stores. Some of the men would gather in to play checkers but that’s about all I could tell you
(laughs). Now Newt Mast ran a big store on Cove Creek and Uncle Will Mast over here at Valle
Crucis, but ah…
16
�BG: Were those two Mast related?
EE: I’d say distantly related. I couldn’t tell you just exactly how much, and I wouldn’t try.
12:17
BG: What was happening in Boone at that time?
EE: What was happening in Boone? Nothing. (Both laugh).
BG: What was there?
EE: In Boone?
BG: As far back as you can remember.
EE: There was a family in the name of Harding, and some of them (inaudible) over there. The
Judge Greene, he was the county judge and he lived over there back when I was small. Rob
Laney and the Councills’. There is one Councill over there now – Jim Council. But the rest of
them I reckon have passed on. Now that was just about Boone (laughs).
13:42
I can remember when mud was that deep (gestures with arm) in the wintertime in Boone. And I
can remember the first car that ever came to Boone. And now you can’t get a parking place
anywhere (both laugh). Fred (inaudible) from Lenoir called up here and told him that he was
coming through Boone that day with a car. And I happened to be over there. It wasn’t the first
car that I had ever seen. I had seen one just before that.
BG: What kind of reaction did the people have towards this car?
EE: Just about like a circus would now (both laugh). It was a new thing (emphatically). Of course
we had heard about them, but seeing is believing you know. It was right smart scenery so
people had never seen one.
BG: Did it have much of an affect; did it bring about a lot of changes when people started
getting into buying cars? Did a lot of changes take place then?
EE: Well, not too much. I was the first to ever buy a car on this creek here (laughs).
BG: Oh yeah?
EE: I bought my first car on August 10th, 1924. I just bought it for my own use and then others
17
�began buy them, but it didn’t have too much of an effect on them. Everybody tried to be
neighbors and so on.
15:39
[Sounds as though the tape cut-off and starts again in the middle of a new conversation.
Where the conversation picks-up is out of context]
EE: And I’ve hauled people from Winston-Salem to all over the country; never charged a nickel
yet (chuckles).
BG: What was the price of gasoline in 1924 when you first bought your car?
EE: Lady, I couldn’t tell you (laughs). It wasn’t what it is today. I believe it was around twenty
cents. Now I wouldn’t tell it for certain. But it strikes me that it was around twenty cents. I paid
four hundred and ten dollars for my first car. (Rooster in background).
BG: What kind of car was it?
EE: Model-T Ford. Ford Roadster.
BG: What kind of gas mileage did you get?
EE: I couldn’t tell you that (laughs). There was no speedometer on the car so we couldn’t…
(both laugh).
BG: Oh, I see.
16:47
BG: Who were some of the community leaders around this area?
EE: Well, I couldn’t hardly say (long pause while he thinks about question). I guess some people
might say my father was one (chuckles) and the “Smoke on a Trivett” over here, Lindsey Trivett
and Lance Farmer.
BG: Why were they considered to be the leaders?
EE: Well, they were older. And people looked (up to) and listened to older people and
(inaudible) you have to understand. I guess that would be the biggest thing, and there was a lot
of religion then. And if that wasn’t it, I couldn’t tell you.
BG: Just respect.
18
�EE: Yes.
18:05
BG: Tell me, what are some of the changes you’ve seen take place in people then compared to
now?
EE: Lady I could not even start to tell you (both laugh). Back then, when I was a kid now, if
people did get sick – we didn’t have any hospitals. If you got sick, people would come in and
help in every way they could. Cooperation was the best thing then. Well now, if you get sick
they take you to the hospital and your neighbor doesn’t know anything about it. I’m like the old
man; I like the old way best (laughs).
You know we have a neighbor up here...she went to the hospital on Sunday…and she stays by
herself. I happen to be in Boone on Monday, I believe it was Monday or Tuesday – one. And
somebody told me that she was in the hospital. Now I wouldn’t have known (inaudible) unless I
happened to run into him. Well, back when I was a kid, you get sick and people would let you
know it and talk about through other people and it went by the word of mouth faster than it
does now on the radio (both laugh).
BG: Why do you think people were so much closer then than they are now?
EE: Well, that’s another hard one (laughs). Let’s not answer that one (laughs).
BG: All right, all right. It’s really kind of strange to me, I can’t really understand. Because it
seems that people your age, that lived in your lifetime…they are so much warmer and deeper
and they can ‘feel’ whereas people now…they don’t care…
EE: Don’t care is right (sternly). They don’t care for one another anymore.
BG: It’s not good I don’t think…not at all.
EE: I don’t think that it’s the right thing to do, but we were living in that (inaudible). You get sick
now and it’s just…let them die and (inaudible) they don’t care and they know it.
A couple of years ago my wife got sick and I had her in the hospital and there were very few
people that found it out when she came home. So it’s just a change, a big change…that’s all I
can say.
22:12
BG: What did you use to do for entertainment?
EE: Well, there wasn’t too much entertainment back then…only to get together and have as I
19
�said a while ago…corn shucking and log rolling and the younger folks would meet up at homes,
just to talk and pass…fellowship I say just as much as anything. Anymore and you have different
entertainment all together. A lot of people have to go to the theater to these shows…well, I
wasn’t raised to do that (child in background).
23:15
BG: Was there very much of a barter system, trade system when you were a boy? Did people
trade their excess to their neighbor for whatever they had?
EE: No, not too much. If your neighbor needed anything and there was more giving than there
was selling. We tried to work to one another’s advantage. For instance let’s just say that we had
too much vegetables say, we would divide it with our neighbor and never charge anything for it.
Just give it. But now it’s entirely different.
Just for instance, I have a few beans and a neighbor that lives on (inaudible) came over here the
other day and wanted to buy them. Well, I couldn’t sell them to him because I promised them
to him a year ago.
Instead I gave to him…he offered me $5 for a bushel for them…the green beans. When I was a
youngin, we gave them to somebody if needed. You see that’s the tilt of change…completely
turned over. The ‘right’ thing.
BG: Yes, seems to be.
24:54
BG: Did people believe in witchcraft and superstitions very much? Folktales?
EE: Well, we’ve always talked of witches. But never did believe in them (laughs) and so I
couldn’t tell you.
BG: Do you remember any of the tales that the people used to pass down?
EE: Well, I don’t think I could. I never did believe in ghost stories (laughs). I’ve heard people tell
ghost stories but I always doubted them.
BG: Never did scare you?
EE: No. Way back…it’s been about seventy-five years ago (Circa 1900), this fellow died up here,
was buried up here at the graveyard, the cemetery. My brother was out that night and he had
on a white shirt…he had been to the funeral. And then another fellow…he had on a white shirt.
I guess both of them had been to that funeral. They were coming to meet one another. They
used to say that there were ‘things to be seen’ up here at this spring just up the road from here.
20
�Each one seen the other one coming and they stopped, they didn’t know what in the world to
think. My brother, he never seen anything that he didn’t investigate. He stopped and he said he
made up his mind and said he would find out ‘what’ it is. He got right up to that fellow and that
fellow said to him, “Tony (or Toby) is that you?” (Both laugh).
Well, that is the only thing that got (inaudible). So, that’s just one of those things (both
chuckle).
27:43
BG: Was your family involved in any type of crafts?
EE: No, not that I know of.
27:56
BG: Did you know to make your clothes?
EE: Oh yes. She would spin her yarn…her wool and knit her own socks…and weave her own
clothes…all that she could weave. And make her own clothes. She had a loom setup in the living
room. She would run that old loom all day long, weaving this and that, and the other you know.
That was the only way to get any ‘new’ clothes, you had to make it. Entirely different the way it
is now.
BG: Did you have a lot of clothes or did you have just one or two pair of pants? Did they last a
long time?
EE: Well, we made them last (laughs). No, we didn’t have too many clothes. We just made out
the best way that we could. I was...I’d say sixteen or eighteen or seventeen years old when I
bought my first clothes out of a store. I’d work and had five dollars, that’s what I remembered
that I had…
30:07 Tape Ends
21
�
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Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Sound
A resource whose content is primarily intended to be rendered as audio.
Artist
Earp, Early (interviewee)
Greenberg, Barbara (interviewer)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:01, Corn shucking
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Early Earp, date unknown
Subject
The topic of the resource
Earp, Early (1891-1988)--Interviews
Vilas (N.C.)--History--20th century
Vilas (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Agriculture--North Carolina--Vilas--History--20th century
Farmers--North Carolina--Vilas--Biography
Description
An account of the resource
Early E. Earp was born on July 31, 1881 in the Vilas community and Bairds Creek community of Watauga County to Lewis Calloway Earp (b. June 5, 1844 – d. November 11, 1919) and Rebecca Williams Earp (b. May 16, 1861 – d. March 27, 1937). They were farmers and raised a family of 14 children. Many of siblings lived long lives. He parents were originally from Wilkes County and his maternal grandfather was killed in the Civil War. He passed away on December 25, 1988 at the age of 97.
During the interview he talked about early wages, farm work, how crops were planted and how the quantity was determined. He discusses growing sugarcane for molasses, selling wheat for flour, canning vegetables, drying pumpkins, and planting by the signs.
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
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unknown
Rights
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Format
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MP3
Extent
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21 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
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Watauga County (N.C.)
Bairds Creek
car
cattle
Civil War
Danner Cemetery
farming
funerals
planting by signs
religion
Vilas
Watauga County N.C.
World War One
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PDF Text
Text
Oral History Transcript
Appalachian State University • Collection 111, Tape 235
Interviewee: J.O. Shell
Interviewer: Barbara Greenberg
23 July 1974
BG: Barbara Greenberg
JO: James O. Shell
BG: This is a recording of Mr. J.O. Shell, done by Barbara Greenberg on July 23, 1974 at his son’s
home in what area is this?
JO: It’s Elk River.
BG: Well, tell me Mr. Shell were you born and raised in this area?
JO: No, I was born on Upper Shell Creek in Tennessee. And my father died when I was two
months old and my mother, she moved back to the Heaton area. And I was principally raised in
the Heaton area.
BG: What year were you born?
JO: I was born in 1892.
BG: How many brothers and sisters did you have?
JO: I had one whole sister, one half-sister, and four half-brothers.
BG: Was Shell Creek, was that area named after your family?
JO: Well, it’s been known as Shell Creek ever since I’ve known anything. My grandfather lived
there and went to school. I went down there and went to school on up to Shell Creek for a
while; stayed with my grandfather.
BG: Do you remember very much about your grandfather?
JO: Well, not too much.
BG: What did he do for a living?
JO: Well, he owned a farm up on Shell Creek. Worked on a farm.
1
�BG: Was your father a farmer also?
JO: No, he was a carpenter.
BG: Oh, was he?
JO: Yes, he was a carpenter. I had part of his old tools until the ‘41 flood and I loved them. I had
his toolbox and tools sitting out on the porch and it washed a part of the kitchen away and all
his old tools away.
BG: Boy! I hear the flood back then, was it in 1940 or was it ’41?
JO: I believe it was ’41, but I’m not sure.
BG: I’ve talked to several people who lived out in the Foscoe area and they told me that the
flood really hit hard out there.
JO: Oh, it was hard here. I can remember a hard one in 1901. But I can’t remember much about
it because I was too young.
BG: Did the flood of ’40 or ’41, did that affect many of the farmers around here? Did they have
a real hard year that year?
JO: Yes, it washed a lot of their stuff away.
BG: Did anybody have any crops to sell or did they just barely have enough to feed their family?
JO: I don’t know of anybody that had anything to sell. Don’t remember anyone. But I do know,
remember it was stronger across the way. I had a good garden up there and it came and
washed the land away and just left a rock bar.
BG: How did your family decide how much of each crop they should plant each year?
JO: Well, I don’t know really, they just decided about what they could really take care of. Back
then people used horses you know, and plowed the ground with a horse. Some tried to plow
with one horse, some of them with two. And they mostly tended their crop with a hoe. Back
when I was a small boy.
BG: I bet you worked in the fields a lot, since your family was smaller than a lot of the other
families at that time.
JO: I didn’t understand just what…
BG: No, I’m just saying that you probably had to do a lot of work, a lot of chores yourself since
2
�your family was so much smaller, is that right?
JO: Yes, yes.
BG: What were some of the other chores that you had to do?
JO: That was about the biggest thing that we did, was farm, but when I got to be old enough to
drive a team, my stepfather, he had a yoke of oxen, and he would put me out hauling for those
oxen. I’d make about $3 a day. I would give him six days and make $18 a week with that team. I
thought we were doing well.
BG: Can you describe a typical day for me when you had to go out and work the oxen? What
time would you get up in the morning?
JO: Oh, usually got up about four o’clock and got the horses fed, after that I drove the horses
and I would get feeding, get up and go to feed about four o’clock in the morning. Eating
breakfast started out in the dark and it would be dark when you got back that night.
BG: When you came home that night, would dinner be all ready for you?
JO: Oh, yes. And I can remember working at the Cranberry dome (iron ore that was mined in
nearby Cranberry). And I worked ten-hour days.
BG: How far was that to walk?
JO: It was about, something over four miles each way.
BG: Can you remember if there were ever any years when your family didn’t have enough
food?
JO: No, we always had food, except only during the 1901 flood I believe. Anyway, food got
scarce then and we didn’t have much, couldn’t get anything one time.
BG: Did your family plant their crops according to the moon?
JO: Well, to some extent they did.
BG: Can you remember any of the certain signs that were good for planting certain crops?
JO: Well, I don’t remember just exactly but a lot of times, certain things they wanted to plant
when the moon was new. And other things when it was an old moon.
3
�BG: When the Depression hit, what were you doing at this time?
JO: In ‘30?
BG: 1929, ’30 yes.
JO: I was postmaster at that time.
BG: When did you first become postmaster?
JO: I was appointed in 1914, I believe in November. I forget what day in November. My
commission is in there on the wall (in another room); you can go in there and look at it if you
want to.
BG: Great. In a little while maybe I can even take a picture of that. Well, tell me a little bit about
you, when you were postmaster. What did you do?
JO: Well, I worked about every day in the post office. But sometimes, I’d leave my wife and my
daughter, when my daughter got old enough with the post office. And I got out and worked on
a farm. And I can remember as I was always lazy about milking my cows and people teased me
and said my cows would wait for me to milk them until after dark.
BG: How many years were you postmaster?
JO: Nearly 39.
BG: 39 years, boy. And in which area? In Heaton?
JO: Heaton, yes. The old building is there yet. Do you know where J.C. Ellis’s store is?
BG: On the left as you’re going back towards Boone?
JO: Boone, yes ma’am. The old post office is right in front of his on the right hand side of the
road. It’s there yet. That old building is.
BG: Let me see, what was the political scene like at that time? How did people tend to vote?
JO: Well, just like they do now, but you know we didn’t have any radios, television like now. You
watch news right off and sometimes it would be three or four days before we would get the
news. I can remember when Woodrow Wilson was first elected. There was a friend of mine, he
was about my age and we were kind of good friends you know, and together quite a bit. And I
knew he was a strong Republican you know. Just after we heard the news that Woodrow
Wilson had been elected to his first term. I saw him coming down the road. I stuck my head out,
just waiting until he got past the door and stuck my head out around, out the door and hollered
4
�“Hurrah for Woodrow Wilson.” He turned back and looked over his should and said, “Hurrah for
a dad burn fool!” (both laugh). That really tickled me you know. I just fell back and laughed. And
then later on, after he became a man Mike changed from a strong Republican to a strong
Democrat. But he and I were always friends.
BG: Were the majority of the people Democrats at that time?
JO: No. Most of the folks in Avery County were Republicans and are yet.
BG: Was the Heaton area, was that Avery County at that time?
JO: Yes. At that time it was. But at one time it was Mitchell County, that was when I was just a
small child. Avery County was established in 1910 or 1911. I forget which.
BG: Did many people in this area have slaves at that time?
JO: Have what?
BG: Slaves.
JO: Sleighs? The children had quite a few. I can remember a mail carrier that carried the mail
from Boone to Elk Park. It gets slick and bad sometimes and he’d carry it with horses on a sled.
Jeff Billings was the mail carrier at that time. And he usually just had a small team of horses. He
would hook them to that sled and carry the mail on a sled. And then another time there was a
route from Heaton to Beech Creek. My brother-in-law, he carried the mail from Heaton to
Beech Creek. He’d tell me about snow drifts being so deep that a lot of times he’d be walking
there, he’d come to a snow drift that he would get a hold of the horse and pull him through
that drift.
BG: Boy, that’s some deep snow.
JO: The winters back then, you know, were even harder than they are now.
BG: I wonder why all of these changes are taking place like that?
JO: Well, I think the Bible is fulfilled because, you know, the Bible says that time will come that
you can’t tell winter from summer. It seems to me that its getting much lighter than they used
to be.
BG: A lot of people really believe that that’s what’s happening. Was there many “crooked
carrying-on” in the political elections?
JO: Well, it was about lit it is now, as far as I know. People…
5
�BG: Somebody was telling me that they didn’t go out and buy your vote with money. They
would go out and then take you to the polls and make you sick.
JO: Oh, I never did get drunk enough to know anything about that. I never id drink any whiskey
much. I remember getting drunk when I was a little bitty boy. My mother let me go over to my
grandfather’s to stay overnight, my sister and I. And she told us to come home the next
morning early. My grandfather he was a good religious man but he always kept a jug, an old
stone jug sitting under his bed with a little whiskey in it. And he’s take it down before breakfast
every morning so he got his whiskey and picked him up a glass. He passed it to me, I just hung
on to it and drunk until he took it from me.
So good you know and I wasn’t used to it, and so I got so sick, my sister couldn’t take me home.
It was way up in the day, about 10 or 11 o’clock until I was able to go home. I didn’t know any
better and I just kept drinking. That’s the only, well, I remember getting drunk one time after
that. I was a small boy. I wasn’t but…Sunday school teacher.
Did you hear him sing at Elk Park Sunday nights? I got a couple of other fellers and went out
one night and had a pint of whiskey. We drank that pint of whiskey and all got kind of high on it.
That was my last. Well, another time I stayed with one of my friends one night. One of them got
so drunk he couldn’t get home and so we had to stay all night. And next morning I went home
and felt so bad. And my stepfather had a big old mule and he told me he wanted to plow that
mule that day. And I thought well, could I ever make it? But I finally got the old mule and wen
over to the field and after I was there I got to work, I got hot, and I got better and worked all
day. But that was my last time I ever got the old saying is “high.”
BG: Did a lot of the people around here used get, as you say, “high?”
JO: Well, no more than it is now, I don’t think.
BG: Let’s go back to your early life on the farm a little bit. Did you and your sisters, were the
jobs – the chores, were they divided that you had to do a certain think or did you all work
together?
JO: No, my stepfather would go off and tell us to do certain tasks, give us a certain thing and we
usually always got it done. If we didn’t we were afraid we’d get a whipping.
BG: Did you and your sister alternate jobs? Like you did something one time and the next time
it had to be done and she would do it?
JO: No, we usually just did little jobs both together. Of course, she helped in the kitchen you
know, and I didn’t too much.
BG: What type farm machinery, farm equipment did you use then?
6
�JO: We just used old one horse plows and some two-horse turn plows, hillside plows you know
mostly. And then we used hoes for the rest.
BG: When modern farm machinery came out, what kind of effect did it have on the farmer?
JO: Well, on some of them, it was quite a help. But some didn’t farm enough to buy it and they
had to farm the old fashion way.
BG: Did it seem to give the farmer a lot more leisure time or did he have to spend a lot of time
taking care of his new equipment?
JO: It seemed like he worked quite a bit.
BG: Did your family ever grow any crops, any cash crops?
JO: I don’t remember it. Had many things to sell. Now, I raised beans after I got grown. I raised
them for several years. I sold them of course and then I sued to raise cabbage to sell.
BG: Would you sell your crops to big buyers or would you sell it to small buyers?
JO: Well, usually just small buyers would come around with a wagon or a truck you know. Buy
it. After I got older and raised more stuff, there was quite a lot of people hauling the stuff to
Knoxville and sold it.
BG: Did they get much better prices down there?
JO: They would get a much better price down there than they could around here.
BG: Would all the farmers get together and just make one big haul to Knoxville or would
everybody go separately and take their own?
JO: Why, they would usually have enough stuff just to take a load of their own, you know. We
used trucks. Of course we traded down around Johnson City and Elizabethton some back in the
horse and wagon days. They hauled it on a wagon.
BG: Did your neighbors help you harvest your crops?
JO: Well, some. They would, back in those days you know. They would clear a piece of land, and
they would get a certain date for a log rolling and a lot of the men in the community would
come and help pile the logs you know. And you would always fix up a good dinner for them and
have a good time. I remember I was going to a corn shucking one night after I was married,
after I was grown and was shucking corn and somebody hit me in the head with an ear of corn. I
never did find out who it was. I don’t know whether they did it accidently or whether they did it
on purpose.
7
�BG: Can you remember any other stories about any particular corn shuckings when something
funny happened?
JO: Well, I remember we used to go to several but I don’t remember any specific accidents that
happened much.
BG: Did people give rewards for people who shucked the most corn or did you play games or
anything like that?
JO: Well, sometimes they would play games. They never got any rewards that I remember.
BG: It seems like families used to be closer together then, and the neighbors used to help out
more? Could you tell me a little bit about that?
JO: Well, if a person…if one certain person was building a new house you know, the neighbors
would come and help him on the building. And you don’t see any of that anymore. They always
have to do their own work. Nobody will help you free much. Of course people do yet, you know
some. But they were better to help each other seems to be, back several years ago than they
are now.
BG: Where did you go to school, around here?
JO: Well, we had a school over at Heaton. I went there until 1910. I believe it was and then I
went to Melvin one year, down at Melvin College. But I had not completed high school at that
time. And in 1911, we had a high school, the first high school that was ever in Avery County. I
believe it was 1911 or 1912, I’m not sure. And I went to high school one year at Elk Park on the
side of the hill.
BG: Can you describe it to me, what did it look like?
JO: Well, I can’t remember too much of what it looked like. But I can tell you who the principal
was. Professor Pearson was his name. But I don’t remember his given name.
BG: How did he teach, if there were so many different grades in this one classroom, how would
he teach everybody something different at the same time?
JO: Well, they just have different classes, you know. And while one class was doing one thing
then he’d be teaching another class something else.
BG: Yes. Did you used to write on slates?
JO: Yes, we used to have old slates, you know and slate pencils?
8
�BG: Penny pencils?
JO: No, I don’t know if they were. I don’t know what they called them, they didn’t have any
wood on them, you know they were jut a little pencil you marked with on the slates.
BG: They didn’t have any wood on the pencil, it was just like lead?
JO: They were chalk you know, they used a blackboard and used chalk a lot. Can you remember
seeing chalk?
BG: Chalk?
JO: Chalk? To write with.
BG: White chalk, yes, we used that.
JO: Well, we used that a lot back in my days, when I was going to school.
BG: What type of classes did you learn when you were in school? What subjects?
JO: I studied arithmetic and algebra, history and geography, and I don’t remember what else.
BG: What type of games did you and your friends used to play at your recess time?
JO: Oh, we played ball. They hit the ball and then they would run and if they got across before
they go to the based, why they were out. Somebody else took their place. And then we had
another one called “Bull Pen.” I know my uncle, he was a preacher, but he came to the school
house and played Bull Pen with us. But I don’t remember too much about how we played it.
BG: Did you used to make your own balls?
JO: Oh yes, made it out of cotton thread.
BG: Did you wrap leather around the balls, is that what you used to do? Somebody was telling
me they would take their mother’s old shoes that were all worn out and wrap leather around
the balls to make them last longer?
JO: Well, I think they did that some, but usually back when I was going to school they just were
thread ball. Just used cotton thread and rolled them.
BG: Was it hard to make one?
JO: No, no.
9
�BG: Did the girls play these games with you or…
JO: Sometimes they would play ball some. I remember they used to have a game they would
call “Dare Base,” they played that quite a bit.
BG: Did a lot of the town people around here used to meet at one certain store in town and sit
around and tell folktales and things like that?
JO: I remember up there in Heaton, they used to do that and called it “Rover’s Story.” A little bit
you know around there, some people called it “Rover’s Story.”
BG: That’s a good name for it I guess. Were any of your neighbors or your family, were any of
you all involved in playing banjos and making music?
JO: No. None of my family did it. I had an uncle named James Heaton, he was a merchant,
wholesale and retail merchant there in Heaton and he enjoyed singing mighty well. He usually
always had singing for about two or three times a week. About once a week in the middle of
the week and then on Sunday and Saturday. And he preached quite a bit.
BG: Did you feel it was, or did the people feel that it was important to be real active in the
community?
JO: Be active?
BG: Active, yes.
JO: Well, I guess it was about then like it is now. People are about the same.
BG: It seems like it would, the more active you were, the more it would help your political
career and everything like that.
JO: I can remember Eddie Ray’s brother, and he lived up there at Heaton. After they put in a
Trailways bus, he would see that bus come in and say “Yonder, here comes the big bus.” That
was Homer, Homer, Jr. Eddie Ray’s brother.
BG: Does he live around, does he live…where now?
JO: I don’t know where he’s at now. He must be in California. He’s still in the service.
BG: Can you tell me the different between the things you did in the summertime compared to
the wintertime? Was the summer a lot easier, even though you had all your farming to do or
was it easier to fight off the cold in the wintertime?
JO: Well, of course we didn’t have so much work to do, you know. Everybody burned wood
10
�mostly then. And had to get out and cut a lot of wood when it was cold and bad to get it in. I
remember that we always had a fireplace and we would, if there was a fire, we would get a
buckeye and cut it for back sticks. That was a stick to burn in the back and the other wood such
as hickory and sugar tree and maybe oak and so on, for to burn in front of that back stick. That
old back stick would be green buckeye and it would burn, last a long time.
BG: Burn a lot slower.
JO: Yes.
BG: Can you tell me something about the houses back then?
JO: Well, there were not many people that had very good houses. Just two or three roomed
houses about what they mostly had. Some of them only had one room. And you never saw any
carpets on the floor very often.
BG: Really? I thought that a lot of the ladies used to weave their own carpet?
JO: I never knew of anybody weaving any carpet but, I can remember the spinning wheels. They
used to take wood and make yarn out of it. And use yarn for whatever they wanted to make
like socks and so on.
BG: A lot of the people raised their own sheep then?
JO: Oh yes, there was quite a few sheep then but there are not that many now.
BG: I don’t know, why do people not raise sheep anymore around here?
JO: Well, dogs go so bad until I had to sell. I’ve raised sheep I guess, for 30 years. And gos got so
bad, they killed the sheep, so I had to sell mine. Sold them two years, two or three years ago. I
haven’t raised any in about three years.
BG: Can you remember what the attitude of the people was when the first cars came to the
area?
JO: Yes, I can remember that people, they thought it was something great you know. And I can
remember the first one I ever rode in. One of my friends that lived in Banner Elk bought one of
the first cars that was around. I’d been somewhere walking and he picked me up between
Heaton and Elk Park and gave me a ride and that’s something I can remember the first time I
ever drove one too. Back then you didn’t have to have any license, you just bought your car and
went ahead and used it. It was like with horses you know. But that didn’t last too long until you
had to have a tag for each car.
11
�BG: How fast would those first cars go?
JO: About 20 miles per hour. That was a pretty good speed.
BG: Well, how did most people feel towards the car? Did they welcome it?
JO: I think so. I think most of them appreciated them.
BG: Can you think of any specific changes that started coming into use?
JO: Well, I don’t know of anything special that happened. Of course people began to buy you
know quick as they, people didn’t have money then that they have got now. And they would
buy a car when they got able.
BG: What about the railroads? Can you remember the first railroads?
JO: Yes. I can remember a little narrow gauge that came from Johnson City to Boone. And I
don’t remember, I believe it was the 1940 flood that washed away so much of it between
Cranberry to Johnson City until about oh, I don’t know. Its been discontinued I guess about 20
years. They called it E.T. & W.N.C, the East Tennessee and Western North Carolina Railroad, but
most people called it the “Arbuckle.”
BG: what was the train ride like? Was it hot and smoky and anything like that?
JO: No, no, it was a mighty good one. People you know riding the train. Sometimes they would
have a special trip. I can remember going to Boone one time on a special trip. Just for the trip
you know, no business. Just for the trip.
BG: Did you take many trips that weren’t for business very often or did you usually go places for
business purpose only?
JO: Mostly for business purposes.
BG: Can you tell me the difference in a weekday compared to a weekend?
JO: I have to understand just what you mean by that.
BG: Well, did you do farm work on the weekends the same as on the weekday?
JO: Oh, yes. People used to work six days a week. Now they only work five. They used to work
ten hours a day and now they only work eight.
BG: Did everybody in the community go to church on Sunday?
12
�JO: No. But people went to church very little back then in those days. Of course, there were not
near as many people as they are now you know. There just were not that many people like
there are now. But they attended church very little back then. Like they do now, about the
same amount.
BG: Were the church services different then compared to how they are now?
JO: Well, not too much. Preacher usually preached the Bible you know, couldn’t be much
difference.
BG: Some people have told me that…what was I going to say? Oh well. What were funerals like?
JO: Well, they were different when somebody died in the community. Somebody made a coffin,
they didn’t go to a store and buy it. There wasn’t any place to buy it. Somebody would make it.
They would be buried in a homemade coffin. Now they wouldn’t know what a homemade
coffin was I don’t guess.
BG: I don’t guess so.
JO: I used to remember this fellow named John Harmon back in the Beech Mountain section
that made coffins. He usually kept a few made ahead, you know, for people. But a lot of times
they would make your coffin after they died.
BG: Were the graveyards scattered throughout the area or did people like to be buried on their
own land?
JO: Well, some often wanted to be buried on their own land but now the graveyards in Heaton,
I can remember the first one that was buried there. And it’s a pretty big cemetery now. But
there are a lot of differences you know, in funerals in those days and today. People just had to
take them to church in a wagon, with a horse and a wagon. I can remember when my mother
died. They took her to church in a wagon. That was back, I guess in the ‘30s or ‘40s.
BG: Were there not any laws about where you could bury people and where you couldn’t bury
people?
JO: They used to have cemeteries around certain places in the community, you know, they
would all have a name. Now line the one up there at Heaton, one named the Heaton Graveyard
and there’s another one across on the other side of the river called Smith Graveyard, and
another one back over on the mountains a little further called (inaudible) Graveyard. You see
people mostly named them after people that were first buried there. They would start their
own graveyard, you know.
BG: So they were not really like church graveyards then?
JO: No.
13
�BG: Did they have a service at the…like a graveside service or did they hold the service at the
church?
JO: They had both. They would have a funeral at the church and then the preacher usually
talked some at the graveyard.
BG: Was your family involved in any crafts in any way?
JO: Not that I remember.
BG: The crafts that people speak of today were really just your livelihood in a way. Its how you
kept going you know, making your own clothes and spinning and weaving and all that.
JO: People used to make about all their clothing you know. I can remember a fellow down at
Shell Creek whose name was, he was a Miller and his wife had knit a pair of socks. He said, “I’ll
give you a quarter for the pair of socks,” Yes, I guess you would like to cheat your wife out of a
few cents. I can take them down to Woodrow’s store and get 25 cents for them. Now, I don’t
know whether that’s true or not, but they told it to an old gentleman.
BG: The mother used to knot all the socks for her family?
JO: Oh, yes.
BG: How many pair of socks would you have?
JO: Oh, two or three I guess. Didn’t have many. Just enough for a change you know. Of course
some would have more than others.
BG: How many pairs of pants would you have? Just those that you worked in everyday and then
another pair for Sunday?
JO: Yes. I can remember when I was just a boy. Usually a boy wore knee pants and he was
sporting a pair of pants and a little shirt. One Sunday a couple of boys would come to spend the
Sunday with me and we went swimming just a little ways over the hill on what they called
“Gator Branch.”
I noticed that one of the boys he was in a little hurry to get his shirt and pants on before I had
mine. I took out up the road after him, he was about a quarter mile ahead. He got ready and
just threw my pants way off above the road on an old brush pile. I had to crawl in that brush
and get my pants.
BG: Did you get him back?
JO: Oh, I threw rocks at him all the way back.
14
�BG: Can you think of some more old stories of experiences that you had that would be
interesting to us?
JO: Well, I don’t know of anything that would be very interesting. Of course, you know it
wouldn’t be interesting to me anyway. After I got to be older why I had the experience of going
to Georgia quite a lot. I bought a farm down there, between Greensboro and Madison. I bout a
326 and ¾ acre farm down there for $3,300 I believe it was. I kept it from 1927 until about 16
year I think it was. I would go down there every three or four times a year. We kept renters
there, kept cattle down there.
I would buy cattle down there and bring them back here and sell them. And I had quite an
experience going to Georgia and back.
BG: You own quite a bit of land today don’t you still?
JO: Well, they have my tax at about 471 acres. And than a couple of lots at Heaton.
BG: What were land taxes like back when you first started buying land?
JO: Oh, they were cheap then. Land was cheap too.
BG: How much did you pay for most of the land that you own now?
JO: Now, this house, you see what it is. About 30 acres, maybe about 33 acres of land was the
first I ever bought here on Elk River. I bought it for 1,800 dollars.
BG: 30 acres for 1,800 dollars?
JO: And then I bought another 100 acres gross on the other side of the mountain called Fall
Creek. I got it at a sale. A man owed them 2,000 dollars for the mortgage to somebody else and
he didn’t pay for it, they put it up for a public sale and I got those 100 acres of land for 500
dollars. When UI went to the sale there wasn’t anybody there and I thought that would bid
against me. His name was Ed Lewis, and when the man brought the sale up he said not to start
for less than 500 dollars. He turned around to Mr. Lewis and said “What will you give me for
it?” I said, “Oh, I reckon I’ll give you 500 dollars.” So I got 100 acres of land for 500 dollars, he
had been asking 2,000 dollars for it. “The buck stops here.”
BG: The land down here where the Elk Falls are?
JO: No, I own some land below the falls.
BG: You don’t?
JO: No, that belongs to the government.
15
�BG: I went swimming down there. It was so cold, I did it and every muscle in my body froze up.
Did you go down to the big one? Did you go down to that?
JO: Yes. My next-door neighbor went down there and he jumped off the top. That is what
about 65 feet isn’t it?
BG: I’ve seen people jump off. Not me!
JO: I wouldn’t want to do that!
BG: Didn’t you tell me about the mailman who used to ride ½ down the falls and jump the rest
of the way? What’s the story about the mailman?
JO: I don’t remember, but I do remember a mailman who was carrying mail to Beech Creek and
one day he came to eat, got his mail, then started back to Beech Creek and the water was up
pretty high. It had been raining hard. Along by night he came back with a wet mail bag. He said
the creek was so high it swept it away and he found it down the creek. So I took the mail u of
that bad, fried it, and delivered it. Every piece of it, then sent the bag back.
BG: Well, what happened to the mailman?
JO: He didn’t get hurt, he went on. I’ve got a piece that was written about him, rowing the
branch. I’ve got it, I’ll let you read id you would like to.
BG: Let’s talk some more now.
JO: He never would ride a horse. He walked. He would just about run downhill. But he walked
fast the entire time. He just had one hand, lost one hand back in his young days.
BG: Can you give me a comparison of your feelings of life compared to today to when you were
growing up?
JO: Well, I don’t think it was any better. Of course there were not so many people back then
and it seemed that things were not as hurried when I was young.
BG: Do you think having a small community school was better than having the larger schools in
big areas now?
JO: I think you can have better schools by having them small, but it seems like now such as
Avery County. At one time they had three schools, and now they have one. People have to
come from Beech Creek and Plum to Newland for school. That’s awful far for them to travel to
high school. But still people think it’s better; I guess they think it is because they still continue
them all in one.
16
�BG: Would you say that life is easier now or harder?
JO: Well, people don’t work as hard as they used to back then. But it seemed that people were
stronger then and could enjoy it better. You know the Bible speaks of a generation that will get
weaker and modern. It seemed to be that its getting that way, don’t you?
Of course you know people are a lot wiser than they used to be, because they didn’t know how
to make automobiles and airplanes, and like that.
End of interview
17
�
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
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In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
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Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Sound
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Artist
Shell, J.O. (interviewee)
Greenberg, Barbara (interviewer)
Duration
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01:13, Election of Woodrow Wilson, 01:28, Heaton Postmaster
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with James Oliver (J.O. Shell), July 23, 1974
Subject
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Shell, James (1891-)--Interviews
Farm life--North Carolina--Avery County--History--20th century
Avery County (N.C.)--History--20th century
Avery County (N.C)--Social life and customs--20th century
Description
An account of the resource
James Oliver Shell was born on January 26, 1891 in Shell Creek, Tennessee where his grandfather owned a farm and worked as a carpenter. His father died when he was two months old, so his mother reared the children living with her father. Mr. Shell had one sister, a half-‐sister, and four half-‐brothers. As a young man James O. Shell moved to the Heaton community of Avery County North Carolina and was a farmer and served as the postmaster in Heaton from 1914 to about 1953. He died on July 4, 1980 at the age of 88.
During the interview James O. Shell reflects on working his farm, local politics, and playing baseball as a youth. He discusses log rollings, corn shuckings, and the how neighbors helped each out. Some other topics he discusses are Tweetsie Railroad, homemade coffins, local cemeteries and playing baseball.
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Shell, James Oliver
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
23-Jul-74
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Format
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MP3
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17 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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Sound
Coverage
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Shell Creek (T.N.)
Avery County (N.C.)
Avery County
cemetery
coffins
corn shucking
Education
Elk Park
ET & WNC railroad
farming
Heaton
local politics
postmaster
railroad
rural mail delivery
Tennessee
Tweetsie Railroad
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/c0fda66486b11b32e32cefae4864f3fa.mp3
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/5344c91deed430f25c6ddcfaf3733297.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
Oral History Transcript
Appalachian State University • Collection 111, Tape 214
Interviewee: Charles Bolick
Interviewer: Barbara Greenberg
21 June 1974
CB: Charles Bolick
BG: Barbara Greenberg
BB: Charles Bolick of Blowing Rock, North Carolina interviewed by Barbara Greenberg on June
21, 1974 at his home. Well, Mr. Bolick, Charles you…
CB: Charlie, that’s my name and that’s Libby, my little darling over there.
BG: You want to start out by telling me a little bit about where you were born and your family.
CB: Oh, well…its just about ten miles from Blowing Rock over in Caldwell County. Mulberry
Valley, a good farming community.
BG: And did your parents own their land there?
CB: Oh, yes. They owned their own home.
BG: How much land did they have?
CB: Oh, I think it was 150 acres in that place. My mother had a couple of hundred somewhere
else. And, we just lived…that was all there was to it. We had to work. We had to do this, that,
you know. And go barefoot, summer time us kids did. And we would get so danged tired
playing, that if we stubbed a toe over a flint rock…the sparks would fly, that’s for sure. They
would, we could light our way after dark by stubbing our toes.
BG: How many people were in your family?
CB: There was one little girl that died, I don’t remember her, I wasn’t even born yet. But there
would have been eight had she lived. There were seven of us. Five boys, two girls.
BG: What did your father do?
CB: He was a farmer, just a plain homesteader. He had to be, like most of the people back those
days. They had to be. They just had to do what they had to do and there was not much, as I
understood it, not much money back in those days. The people, but yet the old timers they had
to have cash to pay their taxes. And he told me that his father, my granddad, old granddad
1
�Abner, he had his own still. He used to make whiskey and he sold it at ten cents a quart, 40
cents a gallon, in order to get money to pay his taxes. That had to be in cash. Otherwise they
could barter you know, the barter system. If we have something we have a little surplus of, we
could swap to our neighbor who may have had something we needed.
You know that’s the same as cash and sometimes I think maybe it was better off that way than
it is today. The only thing we’ve got that isn’t worth anything is our dollar. Everything else is
worth something today.
BG: Especially the land.
CB: Oh, Lord yes. Even the barrel box cost you 25, 50, maybe 100 dollars. Well, it’s a
homestead; okay you got it from now on. We had to think of those things too. That’s
permanent, to pay taxes. Those are the two things that will last right on through.
BG: Till the end.
CB: Yeah, just right on and on.
BG: Well, when did you start farming?
CB: When? Oh, I was about knee high I guess. Kept clearing new ground. We burned a lot of
good wood, just piled them up, you know new ground. Logs, brush, everything. But farming,
that is the way we grew up back in those days, we had to.
BG: How did you decide how much of each crop you should plant? How did you know how
much you would need for the next year?
CB: Well, that was just a matter of what folks knew, it was experience. They would just plant
what they thought and hoped they needed with perhaps a little surplus, you know. It was just
that way. Sow turnip seeds, you know, when we were laying the corn by. They lay corn in the
new ground we would sow turnip seeds, then pumpkin seeds. And maybe fill up an old hollow
chestnut stump with turnips in the fall of the year. They’d keep maybe, if we covered them over
good. Haul them out by the sled load, you know, and pumpkins, they’d break loose from a vine
and go rolling just having a big time down the mountain.
BG: Do you farm as much now as you used to?
CB: Oh no, we just to a little gardening now. Just a little gardening and the better half does
most of that right? I don’t see my way around too good any more.
BG: were there ever any times when your family didn’t grow enough food and when you were
hungry?
2
�CB: Oh yeah, we went through all that. We just had to make do without. The only things we
bought back in those days was sugar and coffee and once in a while rice if we wanted to be real
fancy, we would buy enough of rice for breakfast. But the rest of it we just grew on the place.
And we raised our own hogs and killed a beef in the fall of the year, salt them. You know, we
didn’t have all that fancy stuff, it was just plain salt. And some of the best eating.
We made kraut, we raised cane, I mean the kind you make sorghum out of it. Well, we just had
to make it or else we didn’t have it.
BG: Did you have chickens and cows?
CB: Chickens? Yes, and turkeys.
BG: How were the chores divided on a farm? Did the boys do certain chores and the two girls
do other things or….
CB: Oh, a whole lot like now. The girls did their share of the chores and the boys of course
worked outdoors like gathering corn and hoeing corn and digging potatoes. And the girls were
more interested in quilting or making their clothing.
BG: Helping your mom in the kitchen?
CB: Cooking, yes, exactly. And Lord knows the mothers had plenty to do back in those days.
Besides raising a bunch of little heathens that we were.
BG: Did you give your mother a hard time?
CB: No, she was always our best friend.
BG: That’s great. Did the Depression have very much effect on your family?
CB: Well yes, it did to me. I wasn’t here then, I was out in the western country, but Lord it did
hit out there. The Depression? Do you mean that 1928, ’29, ’30 Depression? It was tough. And it
must have been rough on other people, because I was single then. I hadn’t been exposed to
marriage at that time. So no responsibilities other than, well…I was working on this
construction camp, and this friend of mine, Old Smiley Thomas, he said, “You know
something?” I said, “What Smiley?” He said, “The times are getting better.” I said, “What do
you mean?” He said, “They are making the hotcakes bigger and thicker.”
Every morning, we were living in this boarding house; the hotcakes were bigger and thicker. Oh
Lord, is that thing on?
BG: Tell me, when you planted your crops in the spring of the year, did you know whom you
were going to sell your crops to?
3
�CB: Oh, no. We were just growing them ourselves.
BG: There was no cash crop?
CB: Well, whatever we might swap with a neighbor for something, if they had a surplus of more
that they needed. I’ll never forget one time my mother sent me over to old uncle Will Green’s.
He’d always butcher a yearling, take down to the Grove Store and sell it on Election Day. That
was usually in early November, the 6th I believe. And my mother said, “Charlie, go up there this
morning and get us a good mess of beef. Your dad, when he goes for live beef, he always brings
back part of the neck; the brisket they call it.” She said, “Get something better.”
Well, I bought ten pounds of steak, 50 cents for 10 pounds, or five cents a pound. Well, I got
back home with it and my mother balled me out for buying such expensive meat. Can you
imagine that? She did. She said, “Charlie, I didn’t mean for you to buy such expensive beef.” I’ve
thought of that time and again. Five cents a pound for good steak, just a yearling beef, you
know not an old or a tough one or something.
BG: Good eating wasn’t it?
CB: Yeah, it was. But I couldn’t quite get over her kind of balling me out about buying such
expensive meat, it was five cents a pound, ten pounds was 50 cents. And you know how I made
that 50 cents? I used to help my dad run his still.
BG: Did your dad run his own still?
CB: Oh yeah, copper stills back in those days. They weren’t government inspected. We had a lot
of fun. We talk now how to make apple brandy.
BG: Tell me how you make it?
CB: Well, you just grind up the apples and set them in wooden barrels and when it ferments
and gets to the proper stage, before it turns to vinegar, you just boil it. Just distill and boil it.
And that’s all it and you get something. It’ll be brandy tomorrow. And two or three sips, you
could make a rabbit walk up and spit in a bulldog’s face.
BG: Well, tell me…you don’t have to put any sugar in it? Just…
CB: No, we didn’t then. We were not that smart. No, it just made more. It produces more. Like
this old farmer was telling me about his corn crop this year. He said, “I’ll calculate that it will
grow about 60 gallons to the acre.”
BG: What do you mean 60 gallons? Did you mean 60 bushels?
CB: No, we get two gallons to the bushel. So he figured it in gallons. Except one fall of the year,
4
�some of the neighbors got worried because he wasn’t going to their revival meeting at night.
You know those country folk…back in those days; I guess here and there they’re still that way.
My dad said, “Charlie, some of the neighbors are wondering why you’re not attending. Maybe
you would better go down to the Bryant’s and sort of wash up a little bit and put you on a clean
pair of overalls. Just shut the still down and go on to the church. That will take the pressure
off.” Well, it did. It worked.
BG: What was it like (running the still)? Did you have to hide this still a lot? Did you have to hide
the fact that you had this still?
CB: Oh yes, that was all way back in the cove, the little burner. Otherwise you would get
“chopped down” as they called it then. The revenue agent, the IRS, the same outfit that collects
our income taxes. They are something.
BG: I hear they are bad people.
CB: Well, we had a lot of fun. It was rough growing up in that time and day, but we did enjoy
life, just like people do today. Just a little different style and manner that is all. We were
ourselves, and they were themselves. Like the old saying out west, “Well men are men, and
women are glad of it.” That’s the way it was then, down here at home, right through these hills.
I wouldn’t mind living through it again, knowing what I know now. It was rough, but that was
only what we had, so we had to live it.
BG: That’s right. Do you think life today is harder or easier than it was then?
CB: It’s much easier, but it’s too fast. Everybody’s in a hurry today. Back in those days you just
didn’t rush through like they do it now, it’s the way I see it. Somebody asked me not long ago,
“How did you do it? How did you hang on so long to life?” My answer is by not hurrying.
The only time I ever got in a hurry in my life I was trying to stop. Just one time I got in a hurry.
BG: Well what happened?
CB: I had straddled a danged riled horse and he was running away with me. That was it. The
next thing I knew I was sitting there looking at the other mountainside, blinking my eyes like a
frog in a hailstorm or something. And didn’t know who I was or where I was. Two arms, one
collarbone busted, and my head and neck bruised. They made me a trough to eat out of, I
couldn’t feed myself. Well, I still like horses now, if you can imagine that after that one near
beat me to death. It was a little two or three year old stallion. The horse was as gentle as a
kitten, but he just decided he was going to have his fun, and he did.
BG: How old were you then?
CB: About 17 or 16. I was old enough to have known better.
5
�BG: Really?
CB: When I look back at things like that its sort of amusing and, you know, if you didn’t have a
sense of humor you wouldn’t have much. At least I wouldn’t. I sort of like that idea of taking
things lightly, you know. Don’t be too serious about things and don’t get in a hurry.
BG: Yes, you get by a lot easier. Talking about getting in a hurry, did people go visiting very
much when you were a boy?
CB: Not very much. Well, they did on Sunday. That was church day, you know…Sunday school.
And that was the chance they had the whole week to see their neighbors. People would have
this church group where they would get together and get acquainted again. And do a little
gossiping sometimes on the side. But it was interesting. That was the only thing that we had to
look forward to.
There were no picture shows, no little league baseball. The only place where kids could go.
Sunday morning we could put on our clean shirt and go to church without asking mom or dad,
“Can we go?” That was understood, that was a part of life. They knew where we were going.
We knew where we were going, there were no questions asked at all on Sunday morning. Do as
you please, as long as you go to church. Well, sometimes as little boys we would always go to
Sunday school first then church. Sometimes we would prefer the swimming hole that was
about a half mile below the church. We would play “hooky,” I believe they call it. We sure did,
but it was fun. Once in a while we would have to kill a water snake or something.
BG: Does the water stay pretty cool up here all summer long? Is it warm enough to go
swimming?
CB: Well, this was down in Caldwell County about 2,000 feet lower than Blowing Rock. Down in
the valley, John’s River Valley and Mulberry Valley, which was just under the mountain three or
four miles away. Yes, up here the only way I would go swimming is to fall in and hope that
didn’t happen. It’s too cold up here.
BG: Pretty chilly. What about your schooling? Can you tell me something about your schooling?
CB: Yes, ma’am. If I can remember. We had a three-day rain one time, way back in the teens.
That’s a little further back than you remember I’m sure. It washed the foot-log away, and we
were living on the wrong side of the creek. The schoolhouse was on my side. So I had to go to
school for three days before they go the foot-log put back.
BG: That’s the only schooling you ever had? Those three days?
CB: Yes, that was it. Except for just reading the Boone Almanac and a few newspapers.
BG: Where did you learn to read?
6
�CG: At my home by firelight. Preacher Savage used to be the Episcopalian minister here. I think
that he was raised over somewhere in Allegany County. He gave me a book; the name of it was
Treasure Island. I started reading it on Christmas morning, that was my Christmas gift, and I
finished reading it about midnight. I just had my head buried right in that thing. First in my
bedroom, then I had to go out on the porch, then upstairs. I was so danged scared I called my
mom to show me to my bedroom after reading that book by firelight. The house was a bit
crude, it didn’t have things so modern back then. That is, not compared with today anyway.
Its like those old timers used to say it was “root hog” or “die them days,” and hogs didn’t root
them like they do now.
BG: What do you mean by that?
CB: Well, hogs would just stick their nose in the ground and start walking. Now these days they
have smarted up, they go “hunching along.” I’m sure that is going to be interesting now.
BG: Go ahead.
CB: Pardon?
GB: I just said go ahead and tell me some more.
CB: About what?
BG: You’re doing just fine.
CB: Well, thank you. I hope it will not create too many red faces. But, just thinking of things
back those days like they were then and like they are today, there is really no comparison. Back
in those das when I was a young fellow, we just had one-track roads. It was either a buggy or a
wagon or a sled. Just right of the river. Most of the roads followed the creek bank, through the
farm area. Back in those days farmers were what kept us alive and they couldn’t afford to give
valuable level land, it was with corn or wheat or something for a road. That had been unheard
of.
BG: Doesn’t the way people used to utilize what they had, taking advantage of the land and
misusing it?
CB: Well, they just had to do it. Yes, we used to make molasses like I told you a while ago. Boil
molasses, you grind the can round with an old cane mill, horse or a mule, or an old steer or
something. That used to be my job. Pulling that thing, pushing him along, grinding candy. It took
one complete circle for the horsepower to equal one turn of the cane mill. So it was a slow
process. And it was just a toss up which one of us got dizzy first, going around and around. And
lots of times we would have to take one out when it would fall. Put in a new one that wasn’t so
disturbed, or something.
7
�And chestnuts, the forest full of chestnut trees then. It was a lot more fun to pick them up and
road them in front of the old molasses boiler furnace. That was made it worthwhile was
roasting chestnuts.
BG: I don’t think that I’ve ever eaten any chestnuts. They are just not around anymore. When
was it that the blight hit and wiped out all of the chestnuts?
CB: When? Well, it was some sort of blight. It got all of tem. All of our original, now they are
what they call blight resistant Chinese chestnuts. They are not too good either. I planted a few
of those. They are a very poor substitute for what we used to have, our original chestnut trees.
BG: When did this blight hit? Do you know what year that was?
CB: Oh, it started when I was a kid. My granddad had a big old field he called his chestnut
orchard. Great big old chestnut trees that were three or four feet in diameter and he would go
out there and pick them up. He would just fell for them, but they started dying. I was probably
ten years old, that’s a little while ago. Life was really interesting back then. It still is for that
matter, but people are living so different today. Too much hurry. Too much, well just we’ve got
to get there or we don’t, these days.
And I don’t see where it quite, I don’t know…maybe it’s a wholesome life. That’s all people
know. The young people these days, is what they’re living. Just like we did. The thing is its just
different for us old timers. But yet its all the young people know. This is their life. And some of
them are living it up a little bit.
BG: Way too fast.
CB: That’s what I would say. It’s no use hurrying through. It’s too short anyway. I’m not mad; I
don’t know whether they quit. It just doesn’t work that way.
BG: You’ve got a real good attitude.
CB: Well, thank you. I have been that way most of my life. Like I say, if you didn’t have a little
sense of humor, you wouldn’t have any sense. It all goes together. It works together. It’s about
what you make of it, is the way I see it. But the main thing, don’t get in a hurry. Even thought it
might be a lot of fun, don’t get in a hurry. Just go along in the agony. I’m going to tell you a little
shady joke or two. You would be better put that on another tape.
BG: All right. Can you tell me what a typical farm day was like? What time did you get up in the
morning?
CB: Sunrise or earlier.
BG: And what was the first thing that you did? Try to remember one, a particular day and just
8
�tell me every detail about it.
CB: Well, the first thing we would usually have breakfast. Mom would get up and cook
breakfast.
BG: What did she usually cook for breakfast?
CB: Just whatever there was. Eggs, bacon, ham; we usually grew our own hogs and our beef.
Just whatever there was. And turkey, once in a while we would have a stuffed turkey or
something at Thanksgiving. But it’s just a plain country family. Get up and work after breakfast.
Hoe corn; dig taters, whatever there was to do.
BG: There’s always something to do.
CB: There sure was. If nothing else we could on rainy days, we could get out there and
straighten up old bent nails with a hammer. Straighten nails they call it, because you couldn’t
afford new nails or anything. We made our own fence rails. We made our fences. We couldn’t
afford buying barbed wire, it was called barbed wire. So the cattle and cows and everything
they just roamed around through the pasture and the woods. And we would in the evening, our
job as kids was to go out and round them up, bring them in for milling. Just plain country life.
BG: What time would you come in to eat?
CB: Before dark. We would usually be in by dark, after supper. Bread and milk for supper. It was
wholesome, it was right good eating. And one time, I’ll never forget this. We had something
different for breakfast. Usually it was cured meat, ham, and stuff like that, maybe salted bacon.
But one morning, it was in wintertime, sort of cold. And mom left her old oven door open, this
old range stove. Back in those days we used to have a cat hole in the door. Have you heard of
that? A cat hole so the cat could come in or go out as he pleased. And some of them, before
they got sort of wised up they would cut a little hole for the kittens. But by and by they found
out the kittens could go through the same hole the old cat could, so they just cut one hole, a big
one.
Mom left the over door in a range cook stove. Two or three cats in there. It was cold,
wintertime. They decided they would keep warn in that oven. Well, we got up way before
daylight always every morning, and she closed the oven door and started the fire going. It was a
wood burner, and by and by she heard this awful yowling. She started looking for the cats, they
weren’t anywhere in there except in the oven and they were baking. That’s one time we came
right near having a baked cat ham for breakfast! Well, mom opened the door. They left there so
fast and both hit the cat hole at the same time and they jammed up in it and then they got in a
fight. The hair was scorching plum in the woods! But we nearly had cat ham for breakfast that
morning.
9
�BG: But they made it all right?
CB: They pulled through it. They didn’t come back too soon; they stayed away a little while.
BG: Wondering what these strange people are doing to them?
CB: Well, this was just old country stuff you know. That’s all. Just like people used to live.
BG: After you ate supper at night, did your family sit around together and have any sort of a
family entertainment? Did anybody play a banjo or fiddle?
CB: Well, there were not many musicians in our family. Two or three of the youngsters could
kind of plunk on an old guitar. You know, just one at a time. But generally at that time of the
day we were so tired we just went on to bed after supper, as soon as we could. Back in those
days we had those old rope beds. They called it a corded bed. Instead of springs, we used just
rope.
BG: Were those pretty sturdy? Were the rope beds pretty sturdy? Did they hold the mattress
firm?
CB: Well our mattresses were “ticks” as they called it. Straw ticks. Filled with wheat straw. Well,
by and by then they wore out we hat to put new straw in it. And the old bed, it could be any
style shaped bed and ever so often those ropes had to be tightened up. My brother and I
bunked together. One particular evening we got to bouncing around, the danged thing
collapsed with us and the old headboard came over and caught. We were in a spot I’m telling
you. Hollering, “Help! Help!” Mom finally had to go, she just died laughing, she had to come
and lift the danged headboard off of us before we could move. I reckon we would have been
there yet if somebody hadn’t moved.
BG: What was the headboard made of?
CB: Wood, it was all just old wood.
BG: Were they all hand carved by somebody in the family?
CB: Well mostly, yes. But there not so many factory made stuff back in those days. It was just
you do it yourself you know.
BG: Everything seemed to last a lot longer like that too.
CB: We have an old one in here, but its modernized. It got springs and what not on it. Used to
be in the family when I was a kid. You can see it after a while.
BG: All right, great. I’d like to see it.
10
�CB: It can’t talk to you. If it could I’d touch a match to it I believe!
BG: Don’t want it to tell any stories? Any old stories?
CB: I don’t believe I would, don’t believe I would. Lib can tell you some stories. Now, any other
questions Miss Barb? I’m just taking up a lot of your time?
BG: Oh, I’m enjoying it. Its great. This is great. I want you to tell me some more stories, like the
beds. I didn’t know about the rope beds. What was something else that is so different now than
how it was? I don’t know like…rugs. Did your mother weave your own rugs?
CB: She had some of those old wool cards they called it, you know…spiked things? And a
spinning wheel and what not. I think couple of old spinning wheels as boys; we tore them up
trying to make a sawmill out of it. Or tried to. If we had them today they would be worth
something. But as kids, anything we could, we would tear up cloth and make a sawmill out of it.
Just anything, kids, crazy. When the brains were passed around I reckon we just reached over
and grabbed a bag of nuts, or fell out of the high chair or something!
BG: Did your mother make all of your clothes?
CB: Most of them.
BG: What did she make them out of? What kind of material did she use?
CB: They called it factory cloth back then. It was just plain old white cloth. The same kind of
stuff they made covered wagons out of, the white stuff.
BG: Canvas type cloth? Was it thick?
CB: Well, it was made by a manufacturing company. It was thick and heavy. Well, that was the
only cloth that I ever knew of, other than the overalls. Overall cloth could be bought then in the
bolt. She would make overalls for us and shirts. And that factory cloth was the coldest
underwear I believe. Even an Eskimo would have shivered if they put on a pair of drawers made
out of that stuff!
BG: Did they keep you very warm in the winter?
CB: Well, after you finally got them warned up you would stay warm. They were all right, but
golly they were cold to start with.
BG: What about your shoes? Did somebody make your shoes?
CB: Oh, we would get a pair a year. If we wore them out, we were out of luck until the next
year. There were shoemakers back in those days, but my dad didn’t make any. His dad did, my
11
�old granddad. He used to make all the shoes and granny made all the clothes for all the young
ones.
BG: Did you know your grandparents very well? Did they live…
CB: I remember my granddad real well. He died when I was about; I think I was eleven years old
when he died. He was 90, somewhere in the nineties. I went to his funeral.
BG: What was the funeral like?
CB: It was country graveside; they just dug a hole and planted him in there. That was all there
was to it back in those days. My daddy used to worry about that. He told Momma one time, he
say, “We’ll, you know it would take a 100 dollars to bury the family.” There were seven kids and
he said, “It will cost that to bury our whole family.” One hundred dollars, think of that. Well, an
undertaker wouldn’t even sneeze at you these days for $100.
BG: And then you would be buried anywhere you wanted. Is that correct?
CB: Oh yes, family burying ground usually. Just anyplace on the hillside where it wouldn’t do to
grow corn. Just plant them (people) there and they would stay. No questions asked. Nothing.
BG: Did a lot of the neighbors come to the funerals?
CB: Oh yes. Everybody for miles around. That was another one of those get together, like going
to church on Sunday. But they were all there if you needed help. They would come and sit up
with you and everything. That’s one think we don’t have that much anymore, very much. We
still have friend s and neighbors, but back in those days you just had to do things. That was part
of life, you know.
BG: Showing each other. Kind of showing each other how you felt, helping them out when they
were having hard times.
CB: Oh, yes. It was just being neighbors and friends, that was all. We either stuck together or
else we were gone. That was the way it was. Help each other. And sometimes I think its pretty
nice way to live. Pretty good way to be friends and neighbors. Its still that way, but a little
different…too speedy these days. Say, “Good morning” to somebody these mornings and then
the next morning they say, “Oh, go to hell!” or something. Its just different than it used to be.
Please excuse my language.
BG: Oh, it’s quite all right. Well, you were talking a little while about the roads being just onelane roads. Do you remember when the first cars came to this area?
CB: Oh, yes. They were those old Model T Henry Fords. You would crank one of the dammed
things till the water boiled and maybe they would start. You know hand-cranked? Lord have
12
�mercy. The hardest work I have ever done in my life was trying to crank up one of those
damned things. And then you would usually end up with a broken arm!
The car would backfire if it ever did fire. That’s what this old Frenchman told me. He said, “I
cranked the danged thing until the water boiled.” He was French Canadian. I said, “Dan,
wouldn’t it fire at all?” “Hellfire, it wouldn’t even backfire!” he said. But that was your Model
T’s. That was way back in the 1920s.
BG: Did the coming of the car have much of a change on life?
CB: Oh yes, it changed everything around. But it took a little while to do it. You know we still
had plenty of chestnuts when they first came out. And beans and corn and there was no blight,
there were no bugs. We didn’t have to spray, or dust or anything for our crop back then. But I
reckon the Model T’s changed all that. They brought the bugs with them or something!
BG: The pollution I guess it was.
CB: Could be. I don’t know if this was so long ago. It’s hard to put everything together again,
you know just at once. But sometimes I think maybe we would have been just as well off if we
would have stayed with a horse and buggy. I can’t help but think of it that way. At least it suited
me. And those were the good days if you didn’t mind sitting behind a horse. You could have a
lot of fun on a date. Just as much fun as it is these days. If you didn’t mind sitting behind a
horse.
BG: What was courting like?
CB: Courting? Just like it is now, I reckon.
BG: Where did you go? What did you do?
CB: Nowhere. You just go call on your date. You would sit at her house for an hour or two and
then head for home. A little bit milder I reckon than what it is these days. I would say quieter.
And you had to act respectable they called it back in those days. You had to be known in other
words.
If your date’s parents didn’t like you, you just didn’t date. That was all there was to it. You had
to be a good neighbor and a good friend in order to have a date with whoever it was.
BG: Did you have to ask the parent’s permission or did you ask the girl?
CB: Well, that was usually understood. You knew if the parents didn’t approve of you, you
wouldn’t be there regardless of what the girl said. But otherwise the courtship I would say was
a little more modest back in those days. Less, what would you call it these days? permissiveness
these days?
13
�No, that was unheard of back then. If a girl made a mistake, she was through. And they all, it
seemed to be understood that way. They just very seldom ever made a mistake until they were
married. And then of course, it couldn’t have been a mistake. End up in a divorce court, but
very seldom.
BG: Did they have many divorces back then?
CB: Oh yes, the same then as now, but you were downgraded if you even though of a divorce.
That was something unusual. People jus didn’t go for that. They just have to if they made a
mistake. Well, they would sweat it out. Just tough it out. Rather, they were thinking of the kids.
Family life in other words. Rather than degradation.
BG: That sounds good.
CB: Whatever it was. They just didn’t go for that back in those days. Nothing, they wanted to be
on the “up and level” you know, keep going ahead. And it wasn’t a bad idea, I reckon.
BG: Kept people closer together and family life more of a family.
CB: Yeah, more of a close-knit family life. Rather than, I think these days that, I don’t know but
it seems to me that the parents say, “Okay kids, just go ahead.” Without supervision or
anything. Just to get rid of them, get them out of the house. “Go on, do what you want to do.”
Well, they do.
Especially if they have a sporty vehicle. Back in those days if we had a four-legged horse and a
four-wheeled buggy we were, lucky. A buggy would be like a Cadillac today.
BG: Were your parents very strict with you? Did you consider them to have been strict?
CB: Well, they sure laid it on once in a while. I knew exactly where they were hitting too.
BG: Is that what they would do for punishment?
CB: Well, they would talk a little once in a while. But usually they were too dang busy trying to
make a living that they didn’t have time to talk too much. But when they did decide to punish,
they knew exactly where they were spanking.
BG: What did they spank you with?
CB: Oh, a paddle, broom handle, anything that was available. Just whatever was handy that
would be it. Usually he palm of the hand.
BG: It seemed to hurt the most I guess.
14
�CB: Well, like you said, I knew exactly where they were spanking.
BG: Did your family dig roots too?
CB: Dig roots? Oh yes, we used to dig ginseng. “Sang” we called it back then. S-A-N-G. Ginseng.
That’s supposed to be a mysterious, great herb that the Chinese like so well. And then star root,
and then we would also pull Galax.
BG: Did the people use ginseng around here at all or did they just sell it?
CB: I don’t know of anyone that used it, juts just one of those things. Maybe a few people do.
I’ve found it. I’ve dug it up from time to time, but I don’t see that anymore.
BG: I’ve got a few plants at my house. Got about four of them. Only one is getting a little berry
on it. What do you do with the very if you want to say, increase your crop?
CB: The seeds?
BG: Yes. Are there seeds inside the little berries?
CB: Yes, like holly berries. Same color exact. The ginseng is a pretty plant really, its just three
leaves. And the seed part after they grow to a certain age, the seed comes up in the middle of
he pant with al little flower, a little group of red berries. Those are the seeds.
BG: Do you replant each of the red berries or is there just one, or several of them?
CB: No, there are several in a little pod right in the center of this parent plant. And the birds
sometimes plant them, or you can if you want to. And if a mole or something doesn’t get them,
it’ll come up. My daddy used to have three or four old big hollow chestnut logs full of red soil
that he grew ginseng in where we used to live. But the cultivated kind never did do quite so
good as the just out in it s natural state in the woods.
Well, the time it rained for three days, my dad’s old ginseng patch washed away. Those old
hollow chestnut logs, they went down the river putting him out of the business. He said, “Well,
I’ll just leave them where they are from now on, out in the woods in the cold.”
Back in 1916, it rained so much that is caused a flood. Nearly washed everything thing down.
The word got passed around, back at this time there were no telephones, but the word spread
from one place to another. This old timer, our country church preacher got people together to
pray at our little church for this rain to quit. He said, “Pray for the flood to stop.” It was really a
rip-snorting flood!
BG: Was it worse than the flood of 1940?
15
�CB: Yes, it was. I remember that one too. But in ’16 it was a little rougher. Well, it was rolling
boulders half as big as this house down the little creek here. It just shook the earth, like an
earthquake. Most of the foot-logs washed away. Finally one of the brothers said, “Well, looked
like no more of us are going to get here. We might as well go in and start praying.” Then the
preacher said, “We can go in and pray, that’s all right, but it ain’t going to do a bit of good as
long as those clouds are coming from the north and from the southeast. It wouldn’t do a bit of
good!”
BG: Well, did you say it rained for three days?
CB: Three days and nights. There was no let up to it. I was beginning to wonder what old Noah
felt like.
BG: Who felt like?
CB: Old Noah, you know, the ark. I was beginning to look for a little mountain to climb onto. But
the branches were all so full of water. I couldn’t think, or get to the mountain. One little branch
of the creek above the house where we lived, it dried up every summer and it got so deep I
couldn’t even wade. I was 19 years old and couldn’t wade in the creek because there was too
much water in it. Rock, driftwood, everything coming down.
BG: Did that hurt a lot of people for that year? Was it in the springtime?
CB: It washed a lot of crops away. Corn and wheat, ruining so many farms down there in the
valleys. A lot of the farmers they were do discouraged. They would have sold out if they could
have found anyone to buy their place. But by and by they came accustomed to the change.
Where rich level fields had been, it was nothing but rock. That creek was running everywhere.
No sir, the bottomland as they called it. Nothing but rock.
End of interview
16
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Sound
A resource whose content is primarily intended to be rendered as audio.
Artist
Bolick, Charles (interviewee)
Greenberg, Barbara (interviewer)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:26, Making moonshine
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Charles Bolick, June 21, 1974
Subject
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Bolick, Charles (1891-)--Interviews
Farm life--North Carolina--Caldwell County--History--20th century
Distilling, Illicit--North Carolina--Caldwell County
Caldwell County (N.C.)--History--20th century
Caldwell County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Description
An account of the resource
“Charles” Wesley Bolick was born on August 15, 1897 in the Mulberry Valley community of Caldwell County about ten miles from Blowing Rock, North Carolina. His parents were Emanuel (b. October 24, 1852 - d. August
16, 1926) and Mary Vienna Sherrill Bolick (b. April 1860 – d. August 27, 1934). He had four siblings and was married to Elizabeth “Libby” Gomer Bolick (b. October 7, 1881 – d. January 16, 1983). Charles Bolick died on April 29, 1996 at the age of 98.
During the interview he talks about his parents and siblings, selling whiskey, making apple brandy, living off the land and making everything the family needed. He reflects on the Depression, and attending school. He also discusses making molasses, sleeping on a rope bed, courting, digging for ginseng, and the floods of 1916 and 1940.
Creator
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Bolick, Charles
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
21-Jun-74
Rights
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Format
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MP3
Extent
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16 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
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Caldwell County (N.C)
1916 flood
1940 flood
Blowing Rock
Caldwell County
car
chestnuts
cooking
courting
Depression
farming
herbs
molasses
moonshine
Watauga County N.C.
Whiskey
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/11d2a7d693590e36fc8e3964164d2bda.mp3
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/5529024b8af3927f0db09abbf5db45ec.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
Oral History Transcript
Appalachian State University • Collection 111, Tape 26/27
Interviewee: Bill Brinkley
Interviewer: Lester Harmon
1973 February 8
Introduction
Snow is falling outside and we have just settled down in the Brinkley home after a delicious
dinner. Bill’s home with his wife Rosemary reflects his love for people and nature. Family
portraits flank the walls.
Bill, over six feet tall, is a very stalwart man. His hands tell the story of a life of hard work, and
his eyes speak to you in an honest, cheerful way. He is very attentive to my questioning and is
very interested in our oral history project. A very congenial and intelligent man, Bill has lived in
Elk Park all of his life and runs a hardware store there. He has much to offer about the Elk Park
and Avery County area and is very genuine and entertaining in is delivery.
This is an interview with Bill Brinkley in Elk Park, North Carolina on February 8, 1973 for the
Appalachian Oral History Project by Lester Harmon.
LH: Lester Harmon
BB: Bill Brinkley
Pam: Pam ??
Mrs. Brinkley: Mrs. Brinkley
LH: Would you give us the name and the birthplace of your parents and the number and names
of your brothers and sister and their ages?
BB: My father was D.G. Brinkley, and he was born in Grassy Creek, which is near Spruce Pine.
He was born about 1885. My mother was a Carroll. She was born in Chester, South Carolina
about 1888 or 1889. My oldest brother lives in California named Edwin who is about 70 years of
age. My father was 91 when he died and he’s been dead about two years. My mother is still
living; she’s 88 and living in Florida with my sister. There were six children; the eldest was
Edwin. My oldest sister is about 65 and she lives in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. My next brother is
about 63 and lives in Los Angeles, California. The next child in line is another sister who is 60
years old; she lives in Los Angeles. Then my brother and myself are twins. We’re 56, born in
1917 in two different months – June and July.
LH: Is there a story behind that?
BB: We were actually born in June, but at that time of course the roads were very bad, and
1
�there was not much transportation. The doctor that brought us in, when he listed our birth in
the courthouse in Newland, why, he must have gone over in August. He said, “Well, they were
born the 27th of the last month.” So I have two birthdays. That’s the reason I get so many
presents!
LH: When did you come to Elk Park?
BB: I was born here.
LH: Can you talk a little bit about what life was like as a child? Did you live on a farm and grow
your own food? Do you remember any scarce periods?
LH: Well, as a child no. That was before the Depression. My father was a merchant, and we did
raise right much food that we ate, but that was customary with everybody in this section, of
course. I had a very good childhood. I had my twin brother, always had someone to play with,
of course. So, as I remember, I had a very happy childhood. We didn’t realize any Depression
until about 1929-30. It was about 1929 when the Depression started.
It wasn’t too bad in this mountain area because people, most everyone had land, and they did
raise most of their food. Maybe not a big variety, but a sufficient amount of food. Our worst
period was between 1929-33. At that time, there was scarcely any money, and of course, we
had very little clothing, except about one change, and that was it. But by 1935, we had about
come out of the Depression, this whole area really. Although the WPA lasted until about almost
up until World War Two started.
The lady next door to us, she was a great hand at canning, especially peaches. She had several
hundred cans of peaches, and she canned them all in usually ½ gallon jars, fruit jars, or quart
fruit jars. She dated them all, and she had some that were 14-15 years old. She didn’t have any
children, so it was just her and her husband and she canned peaches every year, no matter
what. I’m sure when they both died; they still had some peaches in that basement.
Pam: Would you tell him about the Sunday suit you had?
BB: Well, the first suits we got were about 1933 or 1934; we each got a suit of clothes. My
brother and I put it on to go to Sunday school. We got up the road a ways, at the time we lived
across the street from here, and we looked at each other. One, I don’t remember which, but
one called the other one and said, “Well, you look like a Philadelphia layer.” We just turned
around and came back in, and took the suit off. We put on our overalls and went to Sunday
school. That same suit after I had it just a short while. I was playing on Sunday, and it got warm,
so I took it off and laid it across this fence and forgot it. Of course, we didn’t remember it,
because we didn’t wear the suit except on Sundays, and it was on a Sunday when I took the
thing off and hung it on the fence.
2
�The following Sunday, I couldn’t find the suit. I couldn’t remember where in the world that coat
was, and it was during a rainy period. Oh, two or three weeks later, I happened to look up
where we played that Sunday, just glanced up that way, and I saw the coat hanging on the
fence. And of course it was ruined, so I didn’t have another suit until about 1937, somewhere
along there. But, as I say, by that time, the Depression was over with as far as we were
concerned, and most people in this section. I really don’t think the mountain people felt the
Depression nearly as hard as the people in this section. We have been classified as a poverty
area along with the Kentucky group and so on, but in my opinion, Avery County is really not a
poverty stricken country, never has been.
LH: You were saying that you were living here at the start of the Depression, and were all the
kids in the family here, or did any of them leave home during the Depression, or did they leave
home because of the Depression?
BB: No, my two eldest brothers left during the Depression, but not because of it. They went
west to seek their fortunes, and they’re still out there, living in California. But it wasn’t the
Depression that made them leave. The oldest one I think left before the Depression even
started.
LH: Your father and your mother, did the Depression have a big effect on their jobs, or did they
change the jobs during the Depression, or were you working during the Depression at all
anywhere?
BB: Well, my father had a store and of course my mother never worked. I graduated from high
school in 1934 at the age of 16, and I went to work in that store soon as we were out of high
school. Of course the Depression was practically over then, well it wasn’t over, but times were
certainly better by 1934. But we didn’t have enough money to go to college, and we did have to
go to work.
LH: You’re talking now a little bit about school. Can you tell me if your parents went to high
school or if they went to college? Tell me about your brothers, sisters, and about your school
life and some of the teachers or schoolmates that you had and how the schools have changed
around here in Avery County and Elk Park since you were there?
BB: My father went to college two years at N.C. State. My brother went to Davidson, my oldest
brother. He was going to be a minister but he changed his mind on that. None of the other
children ever went to college.
LH: Do you remember anything about how the schools were when you were in grammar school
and some of the good times that you had and what the schools were like then?
BB: Well, I remember of course, the first day that I ever went to school and remember my first
teacher. Her name was Miss Bean. Back then it wasn’t the first grade, your first grade was
called the “Primer,” and that was because of a book that you had was named The Primer. That’s
3
�why you never went to the first grade, you went to the Primer.
Then you went to the second grade. The schools were very good, but by the time we were in
fourth grade, they combined two grades, the fourth and the fifth. We had the same teacher for
the fourth grade and the fifth in the same classroom. She’d teach the fourth half a day and the
fifth grade half a day, and the other half of course was supposed to study.
Then, that grammar school was here in Elk Park, and in the sixth grade we were transferred to
the high school building. It started, you weren’t in high school, but the sixth grade was taught in
the high school, and the seventh grade, and then your freshman year in high school started in
the eighth grade, and of course we only had four years of high school, so you were out at the
eleventh grade.
LH: You graduated from Cranberry School?
BB: Yes, Cranberry High School.
LH: The building looks a lot like the one that my dad went to school in. I think he’s 59 now, but
he graduated from a school that looked a whole lot like the Cranberry School out here.
BB: Well, we had very good teachers in high school, I thought, and I still think so – looking back.
We had an excellent English teacher. If I learned all that she tried to teach us, I would know a
lot more English I’m sure. But her primary interest thought as in literature rather than English
grammar. But she was an excellent teacher, and I had her for four straight years. But she was
very hard, and a lot of students tried to get another teacher if they possibly could. So her
classes were never too large; really we learned more in her class, I thought, than the other ones
that went to the English teacher.
LH: You say that when you got out of high school, you and Bob went to work at the store. After
the store, what did you do? Or have you stayed with the store up to now?
BB: I’ve never done anything else other than extra things that I’ve gotten into, but primarily I
have never left the store.
LH: How has the store changed since back then? A whole lot?
BB: Of course we started in an old building, but we built a new store that we’re in now. We
built in 1940, just before World War Two started, and since that time, I built on it in 1957, built
an addition on the east end and built the post office on the west end. But the building is really
comparatively new although it was, part of it was built in 1940, but it’s a solid brick building.
The old store was a wooden structure, very commonplace with what you would think of as an
old country store.
4
�LH: Wasn’t it a good grocery store then?
BB: We had general merchandise. We had groceries, dry goods, shoes, a little hardware,
practically anything you would want.
LH: It’s mainly hardware now, isn’t it?
BB: Yes.
LH: What kind of churches were in the Elk Park area or in the Avery County area then? What
was the main denomination of most of the people around here? What were the churches like
and how much have they changed since then?
BB: They haven’t changed a great lot. I’m Methodist, my father was Methodist, and my mother
was Baptist, but we all went to the Methodist Church, and it’s the same church we’re going to
today. Of course the first church burned; then it was rebuilt and remodeled. The Baptist
Church, of course they have done quite a bit of remodeling on it, but it’s in the same place and
primarily the same church as when I was a boy.
And the Christian Church here was an old wooden structure when I was a boy; it was torn down
and has been a new church built since that time, but the church – the Christian Church is
approximately 65 years old. The first structure is primarily the same because it was a brick
building, and it burned, and it just burned the inside out and the roof off of it. It was built back
just like it was except a little more modern.
LH: Did a lot of people pitch in and help build the church, a lot of community people?
BB: Yes, it was built and rebuilt entirely by people, by members of the Methodist Church and
some of the friends of Methodists from Memphis. There was no outside help at all except from
the Memphis Conference did, I think – maybe gave us 1,000 dollars, something like that. The
church burned about 1952 and cost about 20,000 dollars to rebuild.
LH: Is that Elk Park Methodist Church (pointing)?
BB: Yes.
LH: How did Elk Park get its name? Do you know?
BB: Well, I’ve asked that question to many an old timer and I don’t believe any of them really
ever knew. But the only tale that I have ever heard was that they claimed that the elk, which
was the deer of course, because we had no elk, never had, but the deer well, this was one of
their stopping places. You know deer migrate and they usually run within a certain area, and
they were supposed to have had a place here that they stayed for a time, and that’s why they
named it Elk River.
5
�I really don’t know whether the deer had anything to do with the naming of all this Elk and
Banner Elk. I do know that Banner Elk was named particularly from, mainly from the fact that it
was – everyone that lived there practically were Banners; they settled the town. But Elk Park at
the turn of the century was the hub of this whole section. The railroad came here. Elk Park was
about three times as large as it is now. They had the railroad, which was narrow gauge of
course, coming to the Cranberry mines, which was mining iron ore. The town had a depot, had
three hotels, it had a bank, had a sawmill.
It had three livery stables. A livery stable is where people went to rent a horse and a buggy or a
horse. There were three large ones so everybody came into this area stayed in Elk Park, and the
community grew out of here to the various other places in the area. Salesmen and so on came
from Johnson City from wholesale places that came up here selling goods. They all rode that
train to Elk Park.
LH: What train was that?
BB: Tweetsie.
LH: Tweetsie, that’s in Boone now right?
BB: That’s right. Narrow gauge and it ran to Boone, but we had a flood in 1940, either 1940 or
’41 and the flood washed the railroad out, practically all of it out from Cranberry to Boone. And
it was beginning to be a losing proposition, so they were allowed to not build it back. Got
certain laws and regulations about busses and trains; you can’t just stop them whether you lose
money or not. You’ve got to carry on.
So they came on the Cranberry for a number of years until 1950. I believe the last run that
Tweetsie made was about 1952, and they were allowed to cut the railroad out. Of course it was
really more expensive to get anything in on the railroad by that time than it was by truck,
because it being a narrow gauge, everything had to be transferred.
It came by rail, and it was transferred to Johnson City to this narrow gauge train. We sold sheet
rock and bought it by the carload out of New York and it costs us less freight to get it from New
York to Elizabethton or Johnson City than it did by rail from Johnson City on up here, which is
only 30 miles away. Of course the mines were operating too at that time.
LH: Mines around here?
BB: The Cranberry iron ore mines that was only two miles from here. One of the biggest belts of
ore in this selection known anywhere, magnetized ore that is. It is magnetized, but it’s a low
grade, and that’s why they are operating. The cost is no greater to get out; in fact, it’s less
because granite is so strong.
6
�They didn’t have timber in any of the mines; they just left a pillar of granite every so often. They
didn’t have to timber the mine with wood, so it wasn’t any more expensive to get out but the
grade was so low, the ore grades were so low that it got to where it wasn’t profitable to
operate. Some of the mines closed sown about 1930, somewhere long then.
LH: How did Elk Park start? I mean, who first settled here and was it because of mining that the
town got started?
BB: No I think…deer hunting, elk hunting. I don’t know where he went (telling a story of a local
old timer), maybe to Montana or somewhere northwest, and he was telling this group of
people when he got back about what all he had seen, how it was way out west, what a big
country it was and said, “The forest was so thick,” he said, “You can’t even walk through them,
the trees were so close together.” And he said, “Elk,” he said, “You’ve never seen such elk. They
had horns this large” (used his hands as wide as he could spread them). Finally somebody
stopped him in the middle of the story, and they laughed and said, “If the elk had horns that
big, how did they get through those trees that were so close together?”
This gentleman didn’t even slow down on his story, he just looked at the man and said, “That’s
their story.” This was typical of the type of stories that he told, and I guess if somebody kept a
record of all of them, it would really had been a best seller. He certainly was surely full of them.
Oh, he told another story about hunting. He was a great hunter and said he saw twelve turkeys
sitting on a limb and he said, “I checked my gun and only had one cartridge. I jerked up my gun
and got all twelve of those turkeys.”
Somebody said, “Well, how in the world (laughing) did you get all those turkeys with just one
shell?” He said, “Well, I’ll tell you. I shot and split the limb and when the limb went together
caught all the turkeys’ toes and held them there until I got up and killed them.”
But he was full of stories. We have had lots of characters like that.
LH: How about some of the community leaders or decision makers, like the rulers of the town
and everything over the years?
BB: Well, I have been mayor of Elk Park myself and an Alderman two or three times. I had the
distinction of running for mayor against the only woman that ever ran for mayor. Of course she
campaigned like everything and I didn’t campaign, but I still won. She is to my knowledge, the
only woman who ever ran for mayor of the town of Elk Park.
LH: How long ago was that?
BB: That was in 1939 or ’40, about then. We’ve had some good men, had a Harmon by the way,
good community leader. He taught Sunday school and taught the men’s class for about 15 or 18
years in the Methodist church. I was superintendent at the time, the superintendent for 17
years, of the Sunday school up until the time I went into the army in fact. But Mr. Harmon, he
became a U.S. Marshall under the Eisenhower administration, and he had some sort of illness
7
�and died. He wasn’t too old of a man when he died, but he had left Elk Park of course when he
became a U.S. Marshall and moved to Asheville.
LH: You have said that Elk Park used to be bigger than it is now. Has the population decreased
that much, or just the general size?
BB: Well, Avery County has grown less in population until the last three or four years. Now,
what happened there was, of course, a lack of jobs, and a lot of people who moved away to get
these jobs during the war, stayed so the population went down from 14,000 to 10,000 at one
time, and it was because of lack of jobs. There was no industry to amount to anything for a
number of years, the mines had closed.
After the war, they started coming back a little bit, but not too much, but then “tourism” has
done more to increase the population – to get the population back to closer to the point where
it was, than anything else. People who are retired want to come to the mountains to lived
because they know this I the finest place on earth. A lot of people like to come here and there’s
been a good deal of the land that’s been sold to outsiders who want to come here, and will be
here for the rest of their lives.
LH: Has the tourist industry had, in your opinion, a bad effect on the natural beauty of the
mountains around? I know like Beech Mountain and some of the bigger places used to be, well
nothing there and a lot of people feel like it has done more harm than good. I was wondering
how you feel about that?
BB: Well, of course there are several thoughts on that. The county as a whole felt like tourism
was the only way out of growing. Naturally they wanted to grow and they hated to see the
population decreased. So they tried to make it as attractive as possible for the tourists. But it
was slow coming for the simple reason there were no accommodations and so people didn’t
come because of that. And then on the other hand, people are afraid to build accommodations
because the tourists aren’t coming. But it made a vicious cycle out of it.
These resort areas such as Beech Mountain and Sugar, ski places, some people resent them
because for one thing, it has made land go sky-high, and it’s gotten where it’s hard to even buy
a piece of land in Avery County unless you pay what I would say, an exorbitant price for it.
Really, in that respect it’s (tourist industry) hurt. Of course, there’s not, well, there a few fairly
big landholders in the county, but the land isn’t for sale. Meade Corporation owns about 4,500
acres and they sell it sometimes. They are the biggest owners.
LH: Who is that?
BB: Meade Corporation – they are a paper company of course, and they recently sold 40,000
acres in Jackson County. That’s been a big, well, quite a bit in the paper about that because
they didn’t sell it to the Forest Service, but they offered it to the Forest Service and they said
they would like to have it but they didn’t have the money. Then Meade was ready to sell and
8
�these developers from Florida bought it and gave them five million (dollars) for it. And now, of
course everybody over there’s hollering that they really didn’t give the government a chance to
buy it – that’s neither here nor there, I don’t know how much truth there is to it, but I do know
from personal experience that the government is tied up in too much red tape when it comes
to something that they would like to have, that they don’t do anything about it until it’s too
late. I had 500 acres in the middle of crops that they owned all around and they wanted to buy
it. They never did buy it, and finally I sold it to another party. So, I expect that’s about what
happened to Meade.
BB: At the beginning of the Depression, for this area, when the government decided – I don’t
know; they had been giving help elsewhere, but the way it was started here, the help situation
from the government, they have you a little piece of paper that said that you were entitled to
so much food money and you took that to the store. We took it just like it was a five dollar bill.
For instance, this allowed you to buy that much food, or whatever it said. And of course the
amount was given accordingly to the number in the family. Now this was a monthly thing.
LH: Rations?
BB: No, it was – I forget what they called it, but anyway – it was the largest amount that I can
remember anybody getting was one man that had 13 children, he got $21 per month. He spent
half of that for tobacco and snuff, his wife dipped snuff and he chewed tobacco. And he spent
the rest of it for essentials that they could not raise. And they existed on it; nobody actually
thought they were poor, poverty stricken, or anything else.
So it just shows you that really – well, there was no great need for money. That man raised
practically everything that they are, with few exceptions, but that $21 helped out with him
using half of it for snuff and tobacco!
LH: How many were in the family again?
BB: Thirteen! He had 11 children plus himself and his wife. Then at a later date, I knew a man
that had 19 children and he and his wife, and he was never on welfare and never had a job. He
pulled moss, dug herbs, and that sort of stuff for a living and yet he raised 19 children.
LH: You said welfare – are you talking about the…
BB: I’m talking about a later date, such as when the welfare program started after the war.
What we called the welfare program that started after World War Two. And this man was never
on welfare, and yet he never had a job working for anybody unless he just wanted to. He made
his living out of…well, off the land.
Mrs. Brinkley: Did they pick Galax?
BB: Yes, Galax and moss and dug ginseng and crabapple roots and so on. Ginseng is a root
9
�that’s very valuable, even to this day. The Chinese use it extensively for medical reasons of
some reason or other, but that’s where it was all sent from, but it’s always brought anywhere
from $15 to $40 per pound, and of course it’s very scare. But I had known people that found
patches of it where they’ve gotten out 800-900 pounds and made themselves quite a bit of
money. But that hasn’t happened but very few times.
LH: Do you remember the change in the schools or the churches or the country stores around?
Do you remember any great changes in those during the Depression? Working in the store
(Brinkley Hardware Store), you probably saw some changes in the store there?
BB: Well, I don’t quite know what you mean by change. We saw, naturally business get better
as people got more money, and as the Depression ended. Of course, the war naturally created
– between the WPA and the war – they created many more jobs and there was money around.
So, the volume of business gained constantly.
Pam: What about the packaging in the store? How has that changed?
BB: Well now, that’s changed completely in my day. When I first started working in the store
nothing was packaged. Sugar came in 100 pound bags and we poured it in a barrel. People
never bought more than five pounds, something like that. Most people bought a quarter’s
worth, which was about five cents per pound.
You had to weigh it out on a scale and tie it up in a bag. Lard or shortening came in a 100 pound
drum. You opened the top of it and there was a little paddle that you took, you put the lard in a
tray and sold whatever the amount they wanted from a nickel to 50 cents worth. Flour was not
sold in anything less than 25 pound bags. Meal was not sold in anything less than 25 pound
bags. Self-rising was unheard of. Peanut butter came in a 25 pound can; you sold it similar to
lard, in a little wax tray.
Bologna didn’t have to be refrigerated; you had no refrigeration to start with. Rather it came in
a white cloth sack and it would keep, we hung it from the ceiling. Bananas we bought by the
stalk. Sold two, three, or four – they wouldn’t ask you for pounds. They would say give me five
bananas or a half dozen bananas, or whatever.
Pam: Do you want to tell him about the time when you stuffed your banana – was it a banana?
BB: It was a banana yes, that’s a – I don’t know whether it’ll help his story or not. I was – that
was before I was out of school of course, and my daddy had the store and we would go in there
in the afternoons and try to steal us a little piece of candy or something. We didn’t have to steal
it, he was very liberal – he would let us have it, but you would ask and he’d say how much you
could have. So we got in this stalk of bananas, which was very unusually in that day and time.
The stalk was as green as a gourd. But we wanted one so badly, he finally let us have one and I
decided that I’d get me another one, and I didn’t ask for it. About that time I got it about half
eaten, my daddy came around the counter. I just stuck all of it in my mouth and swallowed it,
10
�and that night I nearly died of a stomach ache. But, we finally had oranges and that sort of stuff
at Christmastime – in the store. There was really nothing packaged.
LH: Did you have the pickle barrel and the cracker barrel?
BB: Had a pickle barrel, pigs feet – pickled pigs feet. Sold fish from a big barrel, salted fish that
you could keep from now on. People had to take them home and soak them all night, and they
usually ate them for breakfast.
By the way, the main reason for that is they had to soak that salt out of them before they could
eat them. They would soak the fish during the night and it was just a breakfast food to the
mountain people at that time. Nuts, we never sold any nuts except at Christmastime. Oranges,
tangerines, and all that – just Christmastime. Saw very few toys and we had a tin can for a car –
played around with the bank and make a road out of it with a tin can, an empty tin can.
Pam: What about buckeyes?
BB: Buckeyes were very similar I appearance to a chestnut, except much larger. And a lot of
people had the superstition that to carry a buckeye was lucky. This one boy was very
superstitious. He carried a buckeye for about 20 years that I know of. But, he got in trouble one
time, and he was telling the story later, he said, “I promised the great Lord and this buckeye
that if I get out of this, I’ll never do it again!”
You were talking about calamities…I guess the biggest calamity that ever hit this section of the
country was the blight of the chestnut trees. I don’t know really what extent it was here, but I
think the chestnut tree was about the majority of the types of trees all through the Appalachian
area, probably and maybe all the way to the West Coast, I don’t know.
LH: A lot of barns were built from wormy chestnut weren’t they?
BB: That’s right. And now its worth anywhere from 1,000 dollars to 1,200 per thousand board
feet. I bought it for $15 a 1,000 board feet, sawed and planed - $15. But the chestnut tree was
one of the biggest losses we ever had in many ways. The loss of the timber, the loss of the
chestnuts to the animals of course, the squirrel, deer. Practically all of the animals ate chestnuts
and by losing the chestnuts, why, it badly affected the wildlife of this area. But, you really didn’t
realize how many chestnut trees there were until they all died.
I can remember going from here to Blowing Rock on what we call the Yonahlossee Trail, which
is still there any is part of the (Blue Ridge) Parkway now. You can see a great distance along that
road, up the mountain and below the mountain, and before the leaves would come out, or just
when they would begin to come out, you could see all these dead chestnut trees. I’d say ¾ of
the trees were chestnut trees. But they would stand out at that period you see, and you could
tell that they were dead chestnuts. It was a great loss to the whole country.
11
�LH: What was it that caused the…
BB: The blight?
LH: Yes, the blight.
BB: Somebody brought in a chestnut tree either from China or Japan, and it was diseased, and
it gave the blight to the chestnuts in North America, and that blight spread. They never found
anyway to stop it, and it killed every chestnut tree in the United States.
LH: They can’t grow them anymore, can they?
BB: Well, they have found one that’s blight-proof, but it’s really, its what they call an English
Chestnut. It’s much larger than our chestnuts. You’ve got to plant it and take care of it, like
you’re taking care of an apple tree or something.
Pam: Well, what kind is it that the Penland’s have? They have one in their yard; we eat
chestnuts from it all the time. I think it’s a Japanese kind or something?
BB: Well, it probably one of those English Chestnut trees – they call them “Horse Chestnuts”
because they’re larger. They are really not a true chestnut as far as the chestnut we had. I’ve
never heard of anybody cutting the timber from them, because we don’t have that many of
them. The chestnut timber now, if you can find any that were sound, some were found even
years afterward, and they were able to cut a lot of the logs found on the ground or still standing
and cut the sound wood out of them. It brought big money because it was scarce wood, and
everybody like those worm holes.
LH: My sister and her husband got a wormy chestnut bookcase for a wedding present and they
said that was the best present they got. It’s really beautiful.
BB: But, the funny thing about the chestnut tree. If it was cut but not soon enough, it got shaky
and a shaky chestnut lumber was worthless and still is even today. If you had it, it would be
worthless. In fact, a man offered me 40,000 board feet about five or six years ago. I had a wood
working shop and we had a lot of demand for things made of chestnut lumber that was cut, so
he offered the 40,000 feet for $35 a thousand feet. I didn’t know that much about it. So, I went
to somebody that did and asked, “Out of 40,000 feet, surely to goodness you could cut enough
good out of it to get five or six thousand feet,” and he said, “No, if it’s shaky chestnut, you
cannot get anything good out of it. If you had ten million feet of it, you couldn’t.” So I didn’t buy
it.
About all you can use it for is for sheathing for a barn or something like that, but it won’t last
anytime you see. Once it’s exposed to the weather, it doesn’t last.
12
�LH: Comparing childhood during the Depression days, when you were growing up – what did
you like best about those days? What were some of your best days? What do you like best
about living now and what did you not like back then?
BB: It would take a long time to answer all than, but quickly: The Depression didn’t bother us
because I was too young, and we were in a business where I guess, we made money faster than
the common run of people. So I had a car when I was 17 and have had one ever since. The first
car I ever bought was the only one I was ever able to pay cash for, I think. I guess that I was
better off between 1935-45, than I ever have been since!
LH: I guess that’s something you don’t like about now, the way everything cost a lot more.
BB: Well, it’s really harder to accumulate anything or make any money this day and time than it
was in those days because of high taxes and the high cost of living. Bought insurance back when
it was cheap and had the money for it. If you had the money today it would be worth well, what
is it worth now? A dollar is worth about 40 cents. I doubt that it’s even worth that.
The government’s index claims that stuff has risen so much, that I can remember the first car
that I bought in 1935, brand new Deluxe Ford cost 600 dollars. And of course, everything is not
that much difference of course, but that is an example – that’s why I said with a little money
back in those days, you could really have yourself a ball, because it didn’t cost anything. Go on
vacation, I’ve gone to Florida and spent less than $200, now it will cost you that and a little
more than that to buy a plane ticket there and back.
LH: Or just to stay down there a while in a motel. Forty dollars a day in a motel for practically all
of them. What do you like best, if you can pinpoint anything, about today’s lifestyle, the way
things are now?
BB: Well, I like the improvements man has made, certainly. A lot of people say the “Good old
days.” When I say that, I’m talking about the fact that stuff didn’t cost much. But I still
appreciate the fact that we have all these “luxuries” like dishwashers that do a lot for the
housewife.
But the trash-smasher, the dishwasher, the refrigerator, -- that’s one thing we’ve always had, so
that doesn’t mean as much to me, but I do – from the fact that until after the war, there was
more than 10% of the people outside of the town that had lights. Everywhere now rural
districts have lights, and that is to be a very, certainly a luxury for them. Bound to be, and that
was the first thing that everybody did after the war that could get them of course, these other
things could come in such as washing machines, refrigerators, whatever.
But I do like the fact that man has made all the progress he has. I’ve certainly seen more
progress made in my lifetime than was made for previous, well, some people say millions of
years. Some people say 10,000 years, or whatever. But that’s up to the individual to think what
he wants to about it, but I think more progress has been made in the past 25 years than ever
13
�has been made before. And maybe in the next 25 years it will be – it’s hard to imagine, but
maybe just as much or more.
LH: If you could change something right now, what would you change?
BB: Well, that’s hard to keep from thinking of personal matters, and that wouldn’t have
anything to do with what you’re asking.
14
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
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Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Sound
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Artist
Brinkley, Bill (interviewee)
Harmon, Lester (interviewer)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
01:01, Buckeye luck charm
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Bill C. Brinkley, February 3, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Carroll Brinkley was born on July 27, 1917 in Elk Park in Avery County to David Brinkley (b. July 24, 1879 – January 1971) who was from Grassy Creek near Spruce Pine, North Carolina and Carroll Ivey Brinkley who was from Chester, South Carolina, and he had five siblings including a twin brother. He graduated from Cranberry High School in 1934 then started working in the family hardware store and served briefly in the U.S. Army enlisting in February 1945. He died on March 20, 2001 at the age of 83.
During the interview he reflects on a happy childhood during the Depression partly because everyone was self‐sufficient and raised their own food. He provides several anecdotal stories about his education, the family owned Brinkley Hardware Store in Elk Park, religion and local churches, the origin Elk Park, the railroad, the Cranberry mine, and tourism in Avery County. He also discusses collecting herbs and rationing during the Depression and relates stories about panthers and the Brown Mountain Lights.
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Brinkley, Bill Carroll
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
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3-Feb-73
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
14 pages
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
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Elk Park (N.C.)
Avery County (N.C)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Brinkley, Bill Carroll--Interviews
Avery County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Depressions--1929--North Carolina--Avery County--Interviews
Farm life--North Carolina--Avery County--Interviews
Christian life--North Carolina--Avery County--Interviews
almanac
Avery County
car
Depression
Education
Elk Park
farming
folklore
religion
tourism
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/bfdcde28375a3728f55e2a2522b3adf3.mp3
a7181a389c8b26b4fa24fbbfdd87830c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Sound
A resource whose content is primarily intended to be rendered as audio.
Artist
Critcher, Josie (interviewee)
Ward, Karen (interviewer)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
00:53, Making soap
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Josie Critcher, August 8, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Josie Mae McGuire Critcher was born on May 10, 1876 to Paul McGuire and Laura Martinee Lewis from Ashe County. She married Gaither Critcher on April 27, 1898 and they had seven children that included Thelma, Lena, Willie, Jessie, Paul, Robert, and Hubert.
Gaither was a farmer and carpenter, and also pruned trees and shrubbery. The entire family helped on the farm and mother Josie did the cooking, canned food for the winter, spun cloth to make clothes, made quilts, embroidered pillow cases, made scarves, and crocheted lace and fringe. She also taught weaving at Watauga Handicrafts in Boone. During the interview she talked about her parents, siblings, making soap, quilting, education, using lamps before electricity, and raising children.
She died in June 17, 1977 at the age of 101.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
8-Aug-73
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
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Boone (N.C.)
Watauga County (N.C.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Critcher, Josie Mae McGuire--Interviews
Ashe County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--19th century
Ashe County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Watauga Handicrafts Center
Ashe County
cooking
crafts
Education
farming
quilt making
Watauga Handicrafts