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Peggy Dotterer Interview
This is J ane Efird with Marlene Deaton for the Appalachian Oral History Project ,
July 17 , 1975 .
W ' re speaking with Mrs . Peggy Dotterer at her home in Hot Springs ,
e
North Carolina .
Q.
I just want you to start telling us about the history of the Hot Springs
and who first built the hotels around hre .
A.
Ah , this is history as I have gotten it from my family and my grandparents
and ah, it is not authentic as far as dates nor bave I ever researched all this .
These are just fond memories of a past era .
And my life began in Hot Springs when
I was , came back here when I was about ah , a little over two years old .
first home here was in the old Hampton Cottage .
time .
And my
And I lived there a very short
My father was ill and my father died there .And my mother was the youngest
daughter of the Rumbos .
And so , I ah) my roots are pretty deep in Hot Springs from
ah family ties and from the fact that I have lived here .
And whenever I ' ve gone
away from here , I have been irrevetably drawn back by what I can ' t t ell you exactly .
So, I have seen it from partially the hey- day and I have also listened to glowing
tales of days that came before my time on in to very sad to say , when we no longer
can be classed as a tourist town of any kind .
was the famous Mountain Fog Hotel .
many people , summer after summer .
And it was ah , still being visited by a great
And it was the type of tourism that we no longer
have . You came and you brought your trunk .
was small .
And you spent the summer .
they do now , one night stands .
close friends .
And you came by railroad train when I
Ah , you didn ' t move from place to place like
And these people came so often that they became quite
And the hotel now as I visualize it , from this standpoint , was a great
big rambling ah , wooden structure a.r:rl the front
road station .
And the first hotel that I remember
and it faced the rail-
Because that was the center of arriving and leaving .
And then , it had the
two wings tbat went back and the middle was kind of a courtyard and on the back wing
near the bay was the big ballroom and there were very gay activi ties there .
D:l.ncing
every night , orchestras brought in to be there all summer and the thing , one of the
things tlB.t was featured besides the gay social life was the curative waters of the
mineral springs . And those mineral springs are not looked upon now as they were then
�2
but that was the era of the farm , when people were very eager to go to places of
that nature and they believed greatly in , mm, the curative powers when they don ' t
anymore .
And then ah , I was twelve years old when the end of the hotel as a real
thriving tourist business of that era which is a very beautiful memory to me . of what
people did and what they were like in the life there.
to an end by the beginning of W
orld W I.
ar
And ah , that ah , was brought
And my uncleJ by that time, was running
it because my grandfather was quite elderly and he had divided the ownership of it .
And he felt that there would certainly be no tourist business here and so he made
a lease with the government for the German Prisoners to be interned here .
And the
most interesting part that stands out in my mind from them coming , they had a
wonderful German band and it sat down on the lawn there and played all the gorgeous
German music of the Blue I.anube and all the waltzes and Strauss W
altzes .
not only heard it from them but it echoed off of the mountains .
And you
And the officers
were interned in , in the main hotel and the sailors ah , they were merchant marines
who were taken .
golf link .
An
They were interned across the road in what had been a part of the
ah , that of course went on through the war and then when the war
was over , it was an army hospital for a short time .
have the real old fashioned ah , summer hotels .
Rlt never , never again did we
And it had been the heart of the town .
And of course , there were future attempts for tourism here because we were on 25- 70 .
And that for a time was the main road .
And it was for a good many years .
all the traffic from the mid- west through to Florida .
It brought
And we lBd ah , a season of
winter people on their way down to Florida and on their way back .
Bu~as
were built , fewer and few people , fewer people came this way at all .
And it ' s very
sad really for me to have seen it go into the decline that it ' s in now .
very definitely the last stroke was the opening of I- 40 .
highways
But , it
And we tried very hard to
ge1j, bring the roads through here , but it was a sort of a political deal with who
we tried and they got I- 40 and it completely took , took the through traffic away from
us .
And even t he motel down there that was the motel of the town then ah , is now ,
it ' s grew but you don ' t see too many people there .
And the ah , cafe that was ah ,
the best one that we had is now is a liquor store , an AB:: store .
nice place , eating place there .
That was a real
And for a time we had no eating place and now we
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have a sort of a one down town here which ah , doesn ' t stay open very regularly and
isn ' t patronized much.
And there is really no ah , r esemblance whatsoever t o this
town as I lrn.ew it when I was growing up .
rooted here and loved it very much.
Tennessee .
My
And my family was always very ah , deep-
And there was a very_close tie in with Greenville ,
f amily had come from there .
Jr ., the president ' s son .
Ah , one of my aunts married Andrew Johnson
And the Greenville people patronized Hot Springs and for
many years they drove a railroad train over here and had an annual picnic long after
Hot Springs .l:ad faded away as being ah , a real tourist center .
They still came and
ah , had their picnic down in the old hotel grounds like they had always done .
then that passed interval .
It wasn ' t done anymore .
And
So I , I can ' t ah , I can ' t see
that we have much hope for tourism as we have knownit , but there may come a time when
this will be a sort of a retirement center .
And about the only thing we have to
off er now is very lovely soenery , ,very quiet atmosphere , and very nice all- year- round
climate .
Of course , we don ' t get terribly cold here and ah , our SUilllllers are just as
nice with a very cool m
ountain night .
And yet just ah , when or who we will attract
ah , enough of people to change the place drastically , I ' m not sure whather it will
talce a long , long time or not .
Q.
And now can you think of anything that you ' d like to.
W
ell, ah , you said that you remember some fond stories that your grandparents and
your parents told you .
Could you start , you :Im.ow , tell ing us some of those about
the ah , the old , the tourist business so long ago?
A.
Well , the tourist business long ago was just possibly , as I remember it , is
m
uch as stories passed onto me .
I must say the greatest number of stories ever passed
onto me were the things t hat went on during the civil war because that w
growing up , that was still very vital in their minds .
had happened a
d t here
I was
The epis odes were things that
are two stories of Civil W days .
ar
And one of them was that
ah, my grandmother was living in a little cottage back upon the hill and my grandfather
had gone off and he was on the Confederate side and so she was there with the children
and she ah , the soldiers were coming .
They were on the other side and we had trouble
here apparently with what they call bushwackers , deserters anything .
the mountains and they simply came in as marauders .
They hid
~ut
They weren ' t fighting for any
in
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cause.
They were, it was just a good chance f or outlaws to express themselves .
And
so when she heard of them coming , she was really a very gallant lady , and she went
out , got an old colored man to help her , and she went out and burned the bridge t hat
led over to the hotel .
Then , another story is , is when they were they came and they
were taking everything they had and she had taken up the floor in the rarlor and had
a horse in there that she loved very much .
They were going to lead the horse away
and she threw her arms around the horse's neck and the man went off with her hanging
onto the horse for dear life .
And so , the young officer on the Union side said · well ,
if the lady loves the horse that much , give it back to her . "
So , she saved it .
Then ,
this other story they used to tell was that there was a battle f ought down at the Hotel
Grand .
I guess you ' d call it a squirmish .
And the ah , this young Union soldier was
was killed and he was fatally wounded and he died in my grandmother ' s arms .
They
were out trying to help both sides .
You were
That was the way of war in those days .
out killing, but you were you had a heart f or the other
~ide
as people , human beings .
And so , when he died in her arms , he had lovely golden sort of curls and she cut off
some and sent them to his mother .
And it was a life-long friendship by way of never
meeting but writing back and forth t o each other always .
And as far as as tourism
was concerned , I think that this description that I have in this article is about the
way it was and the way ah, the first way I remember it and I say in here in order to
describe the life tl:at centered about the second hotel , we quote from a , of a , from
an article written by one of the writers in that
the
Carolina used to publish.
rom t:be pamphlet tl:a t
I say although many came for the curative
value of the water , many others of tbe South ' s elite came summer after summer to enjoy
the gay social life and whether that would be gay social life today I ' m not sure but
that was their type of gay social life .
And I go on to say mountains
has become famous and I can remember the thing that stands out in my mind , something
that people loved then and I don ' t know whether they ' d love it now or not and that
was t he amateur theatricals .
W were al ways having ah , somebody getting up amateur
e
theatricals to be put on the stage of the ballroom and I can well , the thing I re-
�5
member was a man sitting in a chair , ah, smoking his pipe and remembering his
former sweetheart .
And I can remember that I was with a sweetheart number; number
1 when I was about five years old.
W walked out on the stage and stood there.
e
And of course, he lad what his memories were recited, in some kind of verse that
had be en written local .
And I can remember all these theatricals, sort of brought
in a local picture of life around here .
And they used to have people in the hotels
that were called the entertainment and they not only ran t he hotel , but they felt
responsible f or keeping t he guests very well entertained .
And we did have horse-
back riding and there were trails around here and there ' s an old road on the mountain back of the cabin I used to live in , that was called Dead Park Road .
originallY, I remembered is wide enough for a buggy to go
OL
And
and the people from the
motel would be taken out buggy riding up on the mountain and ah , ah around the hotel
there were things like ah
i g watermelon cuttings where the where they would pick
the watermelons in the garden dovm here , put them in a wagon and then the man would
ride into the center and then we ' d have a watermelon cutting and all the guests would
be there .
gether
thing .
And so it was the type of entertainment t!at would bring the people torather than everybody going out like they do now and doing their
-Own
It was an era of ah, enjoying social activ planning social activities of rather
a grandiose nature,
I ' d say .
many ideas like
The
Bapt~st
people weren 't really sold over to too
I can remember these beautiful evening dresses and they had
the dresses had trains on them and there was a loop
int~
d of, on the edge of· the
dress and the ladies put these over their wrists and that lifts the train and then
they waltzed and I was very small and used to sit on the back porch and and look
-
in at what was going on and I thought that was the most beautiful thing I ' d ever
seen, all these ladies holding their
running in t he fields with
One of the young ladies just asked me if I knew ah could remember any.. of the ah
sgrt· of famous people or
famous ~ to~me
mind is O' Henry , the author .
people and the one that stands out in my
And he had married a lady from Asheville and he
�6
came down here on his second honeymoon because he ' d already been married before .
And I remember , I don ' t know i f this is out of place, but I remember they served
mint julips up at my house and there were quite a l arge crowd that came and participated in this event and so I got to see the real live O' Henry .
And we had good
friends that came but as f or really famous people, I ' m not sure that I can remember .
Let me think i f I can remember anybody .
W had a great many New Orlean ' s
e
people-the far south people because I guess t hey found this so delightful for summer .
Q.
You don ' t have to tell us about famous people but any certain people that
you you know were good, just real good friends with or anything like that .
A.
You see , I was pretty young and ah , so my friends were some of the children
down at the hotel and I missed that very much after there was no more hotel because
that ' s where I f ound all my playmates .
It ' s been s o many years ago I ' m not sure I
can remember anybody by name particularly but I do remember the that people talked
about later by the family.
And they had , evidently , become close personal friends
and they were mostly far south people and I wish I could could remember better , but
you don ' t remember too well when you ' re my age .
Q.
Tell us about ah the first inn and then when the second one was built , and
each of the owners - ah, how the ownership passed down through the generations .
A.
The f irst that made this part of the country famous was t he era of the drovers .
Do you know anything about the drovers?
W
ell, ah , by way of the Buncombe turnpike
which went through here , M
adison County, through Hot Springs , they used to drive the
there were pigs and turkeys and those were the two most famous things that you heard
of being driven through down to Charleston , South Carolina , down t o the coast and
probably in between .
And inns were spotted all through Madison County because of
the drovers and you see that was a profitable thing .
they also had to provide feed for the animals .
turkeys and pigs .
The man stayed in the inn and
I ' m sure they had cattle as well as
And t he local farmers could sell the grain . So , I guess I would
say that probably Madison County was as prosperous in the drovers era as it was , ha s
ever been since .
And the first inn that I ever heard of was run by the Neilsons .
And I knew descendents of that fami l y w were G
ho
arretts and the one of the Garretts
�7
that I knew real well was named William Neilson so, I ' m certain of the tie in there .
And that was not on the present site of the present hotel , it was down the river a
ways on the other side .
And then the first hotel that I ever knew of here , whether
it was built by the Pattons or bought by the Pattons , I ' m not certain because I ' ve
seen it written both ways .
And all of our history , even though it had been written
down in late years , perhaps isn ' t absolutely authentic as to ownership , but we always
seemed to be quite proud of the fact that the man who later became the Civil War
governor of North Carolina , Governor Vance, was a clerk at our hotel .
And the first
hotel was the one that my grandfather bought and he bought it from the Pattons .
And
I never have known why but the deed says "the Pattons and Grand Master Rascal ," and
what a grand master was I ' ve never known .
So , the days when my grandfather first
bought it was just prior to the Civil War and so after the Civil War was when its
greatest development came .
And then he came back after the Civil W and
ar
hotel and a resort of those days .
the sta e coach line .
South Carolina .
, opened up the hotel as a resort
So , his chief interest then was the hotel and
And he ran a stagecoach from Greenville , Tennessee to Greenville ,
Of course, it didn ' t carry many passengers at one time and the most
famous stories that have passed around the ·family about the stagecoach were that they
didn't keep up the road very well and it was on the old Buncombe Turnpike which WBnt
down by the river .
It was full of great big boulders and they ' d have floods and
nobody would fix up the road and it was pretty rough on the passengers and the stagecoach.
And so , Grandfather mounted the stagecoach one day with an axe in his hand
and he cut down the toll gate because he said he had paid enough tolls for them not
to use any of it to fix up the road .
So , then , there became an agreement whereby
he kept up the road and didn ' t have to pay any toll.
And his main interest was getting
a railroad through here and it took a good many years to get it through Hot Springs .
It came as far as W
olf Creek , Tennessee and then they ' d have to come on from here
by a horse-drawn vehicle .
And it was very rough terrain we had that made it difficult
to put a railroad all the way through here .
But , about the late 18e0 1 s , and I have
the exact date somewhere because somewhere I rave a letter that he wrote from Greenville ,
s .c.
to my grandmother and he says that last night they got the railroad through which
�8
means he ' d been to a meeting .
And so, of course , it was the days of the railroad
when people tourists moved by railroad that was my early childhood that was most
impressive to me and I can remember looking out of the windows with my aunt and seeing
how many people got off the afternoon train and the Negro porter would have the ,q ags
up in the car and the people all came strolling down the main road under the trees
to the hotel .
It was a very long walk , but you might say they arrived by railroad
and then by f oot .
grea t deal .
And that didn ' t last for much of my life , but it impressed me a
And I spent a great deal of my lif'e around the hotel because my grand-
parents lived there and of course it was wonderful for a child to be able to go into
his grandfather ' s hotel dining room and eat whatever you wanted to .
And we had a
great long family table and this old Nigger man tl:nt we all called Uncle Simon waited
on tables and Uncle Simon always went around behind us fussing about what we did and
didn ' t eat .
And so , but , all of this was way back in my early childhood and I didn ' t
get very much of it before VAVI came along and that was the end of that .
The present
building t hat we have down that we have down here now the present brick building has
never been used except temporarily as a small inn which was never. r.un very long by
anybody and it ' s n ever been very successf ul .
center came t o i ts end wi th WWI .
To me, t he Hot Spr ings as a tourist
It might have gone on a little while longer had
the building not burned in t he 1920 1 s , but my thought is that it would have terminat ed anyway because lifestyles were changing •
Automobiles were coming in and I
n ever considered it at all the same t ype of tourist resort when the automobiles came
and the boarding "houses and the motels .
didn ' t even have bathrooms in them .
Of course , t he f irst tourist cabins , they
They were just little well ,
The firs t ones I remember , it was just a little log building , but suprisingly enough
people traveled in those days and they weren ' t v ery particular about it and then of
course , motels became j ust like expensive hotels .
To give you a little of t he history of the place , now this i.s. not authentic history ,
this is as I got i t from my family .
The Indians used to meet here to use the water .
It was a meeting place of various tribes of Indians . And they were discovered , we ' ve
a lways been told , and then the story is of t wo men , the scouts , who were watching
�9
for the Indians and they were had gone on out
around .
a~ad
to see if there were any Indians
This was during the time when I guess they had squirmishes with Indians , and
they discovered them near Hot Springs .
But , it had been known , as far as I ' ve always
been told , by the Indians long , long before that and I wouldn ' t doubt at all but what
it had not been used by the Indians
becau~ e
even though they say now days that you
can get in the bathtub and get just as much benefit , I ' ve always felt that mineral
water of the type we !ave is really very superior .
than Hot Springs , Arkansas .
the hotel was going on .
It was always rated even better
W certainly saw some very interesting cures here when
e
I well remember a family friend that they lifted off the
train on a stretcher and he took the baths and before he left at the end of that
summer he danced in the ballroom .
And he became a lifelong family friend and would
come back and visit us even when there was no longer a hotel here .
are curative values I can assure you .
And so , there
And my family , my mother and my aunt always
felt that whatever you had , if you ' d just go down and take a bath and drink the mineral
water there you ' d be fixed up fine and so the two things the things they emphasized
then were the curative values and then they went in big for the type of entertainment
that people liked then and enjoyed .
The widows were not too terribly
though they were much more so than they
are now , but they developed a scheme by which in the month of February , I think from
Christmas on , it was probably pretty slow . : You see , the fall was very lonely here .
It would sort of linger along til perhaps November and I guess they didn ' t mind the
slow season in there when they didn ' t have people .
And then they ' d contacted some
people in Akron , Ohio and rented them an entire wing of the hotel .
filled it themselves with their friends .
Thereby , they
In February was mild then and the early
winter was the part that was cold and so they used to help out that way .
you would get picked up because April was quite a warm spring month .
And by March
So , I don ' t
think they had to struggle through too many winter mont hs and then I imagine that
they had a few people that came and went regularly such as the Drummins who used to
go through the country
the country store and they always had to put up some-
where , And Hot Springs had a good m
any boarding houses back in those days for people
�10
that did not stay at the hotel .
And right back of this house , right over there
there ' s a famous old boarding house run by Lancefords .
in the summertime even after the days of the hotels .
accomodations all over town .
then .
And ah , it used to fill up
And there were boarding house
And Hot Springs doesn ' t look at all now what it looked
So that main street ' s become acrossed with bridges of that was where people
lived and the stores and the post offices and whatever other business buildings like
the livery stable which every town had one then .
t'ha railroad station when I
was growing up .
Ah , somewhere in my possessions and I ' m not sure where right now because things
are kind of mixed up , I rave a little book that you just called a brochure that were
mailed out and I would say the greatest advertisement was word of mouth and I think
people became more familiar with a place because somebody went there that liked it .
.
\
Ah , because people didn ' t rave radios , t . v . s , and barely even newspaper advertisements .
M
ost advertising , I ' d say the greatest, by word of mouth .
Ah , well , the efforts were made you see by the building of superior court
here .
And all along , through the year , as I described to you a little bit ago ,
in those days .
there were
Trat was
And I remember we didn ' t have a lot of automobiles travelling here as early as they
did other places because our roads weren ' t very good around here .
I know when
I learned to drive a car in 1925 there wasn ' t a paved road around here anywhere.
The road over this mountain that you came over was practically single-laned and
a dirt road and the first road I remember didn ' t even have
It was just a dusty road .
rock
The dust maybe hid you in the summertime .
So, the efforts
have been here to encourage tourists , but the ah , things just haven ' t worked out .
If we had maintained a steady tourist travel it wa.ild have certainly required ah,
very good roads that we don 't have because when the railroad travel went out entirely
at all.
Ah , people moved only by automobiles , tourist travel .
can understand what I thought it was .
And you
�11
No, I don ' t remember .
Ah , of course, I was very young during the days of the
hotel and it was all very glamorous to me and I thought it was lovely .
And I
ah, thought it was quite beautifully run because my grandfather ran it I guess .
And it was a tie-in with the family and this house that we ' re sitting in right
now was built by my grandfather in 1868 and it has been completely remodelled .
But , you can look over there and see a picture of it as it was .
And as it was,
as I lived in it as a child and in fact until not too many years ago before it was
remodelled like it is now .
It was my grandfather ' s home .
My
mother was born here .
And ah , it has never been, except for rented for a short period of ti.me a boarding
house while the family lived in Asheville a little while during the days of
southern
company, the Civil W aftermath and it ' s always been mentioned
ar
by the family . It was never owned by anyone else .
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Efird, Jane
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Dotterer, Elizabeth
Interview Date
7/17/1975
Location
The location of the interview.
Hot Springs, NC
Number of pages
11 pages
Date digitized
9/16/2014
File size
8.11MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
8df455f77e2183ea64b8c3af6459e207
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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111_tape300_ElizabethDotterer_transcript_M
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Elizabeth Dotterer [July 17, 1975]
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
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Efird, Jane
Dotterer, Elizabeth
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Subject
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Hot Springs (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Community life--North Carolina--Hot Springs--History--20th century--Anecdotes
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Elizabeth Dotterer talks about growing up in Hot Springs, North Carolina, where many tourists would come and stay over the summer. She explains: "It was the type of tourism we no longer have. You spent the entire summer." After the outbreak of WWII the nature of tourism changed. Dotterer reflects fondly on working at the hotels and spending time with the summer tourists. She explains that the opening of the I-40 highways had a big impact on tourism as well.
Andrew Johnson Jr
Asheville
automobiles
Buncombe Turnpike
cars
Civil War
drovers
Elizabeth Dotterer
formal balls
German band
German prisoners
Greenville
Hampton Cottage
Hot Springs
hotel entertainment
Hotel Grand
Madison County N.C.
Mountain Fog Hotel
Native Americans
railroad
Tennessee
tourist business
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/27b53db1ad01c1f3a826eda7b31264f6.pdf
cb874bf7faff180b24891f6117d6ed17
PDF Text
Text
AOHP #$7
This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History Project on April
10, 1973. The interview is with Mr. L.E. Tuckwiller, County Agricultural
Extension Agent for Watauga County. The interview is being conducted by
Joy Lamm.
Q: Mr. Tuckwiller, you have been county extension agent for how long now?
At
Thirty years this last February.
Q: Are you going to be here thirty more?
At
No. I expect about another year and a half or two years will get my tenure
filled out.
Qt
Was this your first job?
At
No. I worked for a cooperative, coming out of school, for seven years -
Farmer's Cooperative over in Cherokee and Clay County, N.C.
Qt
What kind of cooperative?
At
It was handling feed, farming supplies. At that time we were making some
butter, and also we were pasteurizing some milk, and got into bottling milk
before I 16ft there. We were processing farm products and selling supplies also*
Q; Was this a large farming area?
A: No, it's a very small farming area. Farms are small - well, I would say
an average of 30-1*0 acres per farm. Most of the farmers had from one to five
cows and sold a little surplus milk. They also, at that time, were keeping a
large number of chickens - by large number, I mean most of them had a few
chickens which amounted to a large number in the area. Cur cooperative purchsed
the eggs, ran trucks through the community. We purchased the eggs and purchased
the chickens«
That was before broilers got to be very prominent, so we purchased
what we call fryer chickens, and roasters0 They were fryers after they weighed
about h Ibs., they they were called roasters after they got above that. So we did
quite a bit of business that way.
Qs
And then you pulled these and sold them at a market?
At
Sold them mostly in Atlanta, Georgia. We had a truck that usually carried the
produce to Atlanta each week* Thay would take some live chickens, some eggs and
�often times some butter, processed and packaged of course. We would bring back
farm supplies, and also, often times we would bring back feed.
Qs Now what years were these?
Aj That was 1931| - 19U2. I graduated from Berea in 193U, June, and went directly
to this cooperative. The post office was Brasstown, N.C, I left there in February
of 19U3 to come over here.
Qs
And so your only training before then was at Berea?
At
At Berea, yes. In the meantime, since I'*ve been working here, I've been to
workshops and extension courses. I've taken k of their three-week summer sessions.
I've had numerous week-long sessions of training, what we call in-service training.
I couldn't count those, there's been many of them, usually 2-U a year. So you
count 30 years, there were probably 75-100 of those week-long sessions.
Q: Plus working in the cooperative was probably the best trainifeg you could get,
wasn't it?
As That was good training, yes.
Q: What was your job in the cooperative?
A: When I started I was called the butter-maker. I made the butter, processed the
sour cream. I did that for approximately a year, then I was promoted to manager
of the Cooperative Feed Store, and as that I was kind of kicked upstairs to an
office.
Someone else took over the butter-making, and I suppose that would be the
title you would call me through the other six years that I was there. But, of
course, we grew from a small butter-making plant. We began to handle poultry and
eggs and more feed and supplies in 1937> so it increased in volume from, oh, I
think we had sales of something like $i|0,000 - $50,000 the first year, and it ran
up to about $250,000.
QJ What was the name of the co-op?
A: Mountain Valley Cooperative, Inc. It's defunct at the present time,, Went out
of business after we quit the manufacture of butter from sour cream collected from
farm to farm0 You see, the Health Department got into that a little bit.
�Qt
How did you make the butter?
A: The sour cream came to us in containers, cans , and we pasteurized it and made
the butter in those large churns - well, not a large churn - we would make from
300-500 Ibs. of butter at a time, but it wasn't large. Of course, they have churns
that will make k or f> tons of butter at a time.
Qs Was this electric or hand operated?
A: It was electric. The churn and the pasteurizer was electtic. Of course, we
had the steam boiler that produced the heat for pasteurization - just a process we
went through.
Q: And did you have a factory?
A: It was a small factory - I'd guess you would call it a small factory. The
building was about 100' X 1 0 I believe. Run one way kO1 and then we had the
|'
boiler room to the back. It was a small unit.
Q: Getting back to Berea, could you tell me about your schooling there; what you
studied, and what you remember about the school?
As Well, it was a four-year collegej a small college, with only about liOO students
when I went there. They did away with the section they called normal school, and
they built it up to around 800 by the time I left there. I went in 1930, right in
the bottom of the Depression, and then it was coming out of the Depression a little
bit in 193U» when I completed there.
Qs What was it like going to school during the Depression?
A: Well, I suppose it might have been easier going to school during the Depression
than any other time, because you couldn't get a job, and if you could make enough
to kino, of keep going, why you could feel like you had been occupied. So, I didn't
have any money, and Berea was a very economical school to attend - I worked 2 hours
during the week, and on Mondays when we didn't have classes. I usually tried to
work from U-6 hours, and of course our wages were Iow0 I think I started in around
1U# an hour and worked up to 2£# an hour, which is not quite the minimum wage now!
I was able to go through school - I think I had something like $165 when I went there-
�I borrowed from the strident fund, worked, and got out owing approximately $300,
Probably did pretty well. I worked through h years, stayed at the school during
the summer months, and worked - first summer I worked in a broom factory carrying
broom corn to the broom makers. Then I worked in the shipping department the latter
part of the summer. The other two years I worked in the creamery. That's where
I learned to make butter, pasteurize the milk, make cheese, so it was a learning
experience even while I was working.
Qs And this is what got you interested in the Job with the co-op?
At
I expect it was. At that time, jobs were very scarce. A few of the boys got
jobs teaching - or boys and girls - got jobs teaching. When that was over, there
were not many that were employing college graduates for more than just manual labor,
and I felt very fortunate to get a job; even though the salary was very low, it was
a job.
Q: Inhere was your family living during these depression years?
As My family was on the farm, or were paying on a farm in Greenberry County,
West Virginia, and they were lucky to keep their payments up, and they were not
able to help me. Also, the two sisters at that time were just finishing high school
and were ready to go to college. They finally wound up going about a term each, but
they didn't go through. But if there had been a little more money, they probably
would have.
Qt Were you born and raised in West Virginia?
AJ
Yes, I was.
Qs Was this in the mountainous section?
A«
Yes, it's not quite as mountainous as around Boone, but over where we were
raised it was what they called the rolling lando And, part of it got up on the
mountains also, but we had land you could get machinery over. It wasn't quite the
one-horse farm you find in some of the steeper mountains0 It was a 200-acre farm quite a. bit of land involved,
Q: T/fes there coal mining going on around there, or was it agricultural?
�A: It was agricultural entirely,. There was coal mining approximately 25 miles
away. We were - well, later than that it came a little closer when it got to strip
mining. But, we just at that time, some few were beginning to go to the coal
fields for work, because the roads were built just before that; they had hard
surfaced road, and they begun to get automobiles and trucks dependable enough to take
a transport to and from the coal mines. Up until that time, we were strictly
agricultural, and that was the only kind of work we had available. There was not
much money. I can tell people we grew up in poverty, but we didn't know it, se it
didn't make too much difference I guess*
Qt Did you make and have the things you needed from the farm?
A: Most things we made. We bought, I think my mother had the few chickens. She
made some homemade butter. She sold butter and eggs to get sugar, salt, coffee.
As I remember, that was most of the things we purchased. The rest of the things we got our meat, vegetables, wheat for the flour - most everything was produced
right there on the farm.
Q* When were you born?
A: September 16, 1908.
Qi Were you at home when the Depression started?
Ai I was - yes, I suppose. I finished high school in 1?29 and I got a job working
on a neighborhood sawmill, immediately after finishing high school, and my
application for college; I planned to work a year to try to get a little money to
go to school on. Actually, the Depression hit, started in 1930, and that's the
year I started to Berea, So, I had my application in, had been accepted, and was
planning to go when things begun to really tighten down.
Q: When you growing up on the farm, did your family farm by planting by the signs,
or did they have any superstitions regarding fanning?
AJ We heard about those all along, but as a rule we paid no attention to them.
My father was not much on signs, neither was my mother, so we planted when the
ground was dry, and we farmed when the weather was suitable, so I heard very little
�about the signs when I was growing up from my family. Now there were people in the
neighborhood who did farm by signs. They did certain jobs when the signs were right
and only when they were right. I heard them, but I never grew up believing in them
very much.
Q; Do you remember any particular superstitions?
A: Oh, I heard quite a number of things. If you planted when the sig.i was in Twin,
I believe, it was suppose to yield a good crop0 If you planted when the moon was on
the decrease, your bacon and fat would shrivel up when hogs were killed. Several things
I heard, but I don't remember too many of them.
Qs It was a whole lot easier to just go on and do what you wanted to do.
At
I tiling so, yes.
Qs
Did your mother help your father on the farm?
As Not too much, except my mother always did the milking in the summertime and my father
was working in the fields* Usually in the winter months, my father took over that chore.
My mother always tended to her chickens, those were hers. She took care of those0 The
rest of it, my father pretty well took care of. My mother was there were six of us
children born just two years apart then, for 11 years, so she had her hands full at the
house. I was the oldest of six. She didH have much time to get out in the farm. She
would help occasionally. In hay harvest, she would get cut and what we call hitch hay
shocks, bringing hay into the stacks. Or, she would drive the wagon hauling the hay
sometimes, something like that.
Q: What about your sisters? Did they have different tasks to do than the boys?
A: They had their household tasks to do, and as I remember, one of them would-it kind
of rotated-one of them would wash dishes, one of them would peel potatoes and prepare
�the vegetables, and one of them would carry in the wood-that got to be-we cooked with
a. wood stove-it was a right smart little chore sometimes. My father and I did a lot
of that, but during the summer months, why, that usually fell to the girls. They
carried the wood in from the wood shed, saw that everything was ready for the fire.
The water was on the back porch. Had an old well bucket, so they had to draw the water
at certain times. Some few things like that that I remember.
Q: Had your family been in that area for several generations?
A: Yes. The old family farm had been in the family since this area was settled, because that area, the colonists from Virginia began to spill over in there, about the
1^70's, sometime in there. Some of the little tales that I can remember about some
of the ancestors that had been in there. Around 1785, something like that—they had
been there for a long time.
Q: What are some of the tales that you remember?
-A: Well, the tales, of course the ones that are scary, and things like that, would be
the Indian raids. One that my grandmother used to tell was pouring scalding water through
the puncheon floor to scald an Indian that had crawled under the floor to try to get into
the house. Of course, that would be one I would remember, something like that. Then,
about hearing the Indians at night-acting like- making sounds like hoot owls communicating
with each other across from the home, and barring the door-keeping everything closed. I
remember those kind of things0
Qt
Did they ever have any attacks?
At
Not right in our immediate community. There was a fort some 8 or 10 miles away that
did have and Indian attack-in fact, I think it was burned. I believe one time, but there
was none right in our immediate community0
Q: What was the name of the fort?
�A:
Fort Donneley.
Q:
This was in your grandmother's day?
At
No, it was before my grandmother. My grandmother was born about 1852 or 1853• That
was after the Indians were driven out.
Ail these tales were before, just something
passed down by her parents or grandparents, or something. There was no Indian there
when my grandmother was, as far as I know. She said there was bears and deer. I heard
them tell about seeing deer go through the clearings they hacked out of the woods, things
like that.
Q:
Did they have some Civil War stories?
As
Tes. There were some Civil War stories. They were pretty well on the border, and
I think seme of the people went to each army, so there was-I don't know of any brothers
against brothers, but I've heard some tales of some cousins against cousins on different
sides. There was always an alert to - if the soldiers of either side were coming, they
were to hide in the woods or somewhere„
Qi Who was to hide?
AJ
The family-the women and children would hide.
Qs
Oh, the whole family would go hide?
AJ
Yes, they would particularly try to take care of the horses because the horses were
essential to the farm. So they would try to hide the horses0 There's one tale-this is
limestone country-and ther's one tale that they took the horses of anyone to a limestone
cave and took them back into where they couldn't hear the horses of any soldiers Cavalry
that came by.
Those were scary tales too, you know.
Q:
The soldiers on both sides would come through and just take whatever they wanted?
A:
Yes, that seemed to be the idea, that if either side would come through, they would
�pick up anthing was loose. If there was a cow or calf, they would drive it
off, you see. If they found any potatoes, why, they would take them. That's
all "hear say", but I would suspect that there is quite a bit of truth in it.
Q:
What side was your family on?
A:
Most of my family was on the Soughern side-Confederate side. My father's
people were all, and my mother's people were divided somewhat. There was two
sections of those. One brother had already migrated to down of the Ohio River,
which is 150 miles further northwest, and they were very definitely Yankees,
but the ones right there in the community I suppose they had more Southern sympathy than they had for the Northern. The next door neighbors was a Northern
soldier so-both ways.
Qs
Do you remember any stories about hiding runaway slaves?
As
No, I suppose that, evidently, not many went through that areao I think
that most of the slaves headed further East into-up Harper's Ferry, West Virginia.
Of course, that was Virginia until Civil War time<> West Virginia was cut off because what is now West Virginia wanted to go with the confederacy. That's really the reason the state of West Virginia was formed I guess, when you get basically down to it.
Q:
Your family migrated from Virginia?
A:
Yes, they migrated from Virginia. They came with the colonies from-well,
actually we don't know what ship the ancestors came over on or anything like
that, but they were with the Jamestown Settlement, but they might have been,
I don't know.
Qt
You had never been down to Norht Carolina until you came down after col-
lege?
As
I came down after finishing college and got a job.
Qj
What were the farming conditions like when you first came to this area
�10
30 years ago?
At
Well, most everyone depended on their farm for their income, whether it
was, whether they actually farmed or whether they did business with the fanners
such as the fertilizer dealers and the merchants. The biggest payroll of course
was Appalachian State University, as it still is. We had, the census gave us
around 2600 farms, and the income about l^g million, total sales during the year,
so you see, there wasn't really a lot of money floating around<, Part of it was
what we would now call "Subsistence farming", with making most everything that
you used at the farm, on the farm, and in the home. We didn't buy a lot. I
guess the grocery stores would say we didn't buy anything much,
Q:
What portion of the farm products were marketed?
AJ
We were producing at that time quite a number of vegetables. In I9k3>
when I came here-the second World War in progress-we were growing cabbage, snap
beans. Irish potatoes for sale. We were also "growing some beef cattle, a large
number of farmers kept sheep and sold sheep and lambs. Then there were poultry
and eggs on a good many farms at that time. So, we sold vegetables, livestock,
livestock products, and eggs, poultry.
Qt
Did the family use most of what they produced?
Aj
Depending on the size of the farm. The small farmers used a higher pro-
portion of what he produced-total poduetions-thah the larger farmers. Of course,
the larger farmers sold quite a volume of their produce. I would say of the
amount produced was actually sodl or more, and livestock, it would be 9/10 I
expect, because they would produce enough, where 1/10 of what they produced
would supply their needs.
Q:
How did you define1 "subsistence" then?
A:
Well, what we mean by subsistnece was what that most of them raised all
that they needed on the farm, and then sold the surplus.
Q:
Were there outside laborers that worked on the farm?
�n
A:
Usually neighbors. The small farmers would work on their own farm part
of the year, and then work for their neighbors part of the time.
Q:
And the neighbor would pay them cash?
AJ
Cash, or pay them sometimes in farm produce, swap labor with them sometimes.
There wasn't an awful lot of cash to change hands, but some of it did, of course.
Q:
What were your main markets—the main commodities produced?
As
The vegetables were sold through-at that time we had, well Goodnight Bro-
thers were operating at Hollar's Produce, At time to time other large farmers
would have some produce. As trucks,- began to come in, we got more and more
of the outside truckers coming in buying a truckload of cabbage, a truckload
of beans. The biggest bean market in the world at that time was at Mountain
City, Tennessee. We had a bean market there. We had a small bean auction market
here in Boone for a while, and there's also one in West Jefferson. Some of the
towns south and east of here, such as Charlotte, and Gastonia, were good markets
for farm products. Farmers began to get pick-up trucks. They would load a pickup, or maybe a larger truck, with cabbafe, beans, apples-take off down there for
2 or 3 days and sell a load* Potatoes were a Mg item. We could store potatoes
all winter.
Q:
What did the Goodnight Brothers and the Hollars do?
A:
They shipped their produce by the truckload, to the terminal markets—Atlanta
Charlott$, and up the Eastern Seaboard-Washington, New York. I've even heard of
sine if tgen giubg as far as Boston. Some went to Louisiana. That used to be a
pretty big market for cabbage in the late summer, so they distributed wherever
they could find a marketo
Q:
Did they use the railroads at all the ship the produce?
A:
Some. But, most of them went by truck* They could load up in Boone and be
in Washington, D.C. the next day. The railroad was a little slower. A good many
�12
of the livestock, cattle and sheep, were shipped by train to the processing
plants in New York City, Baltimore, Maryland. Usually our produce would head
East and North, because you could get it from the West in to New York a little
later in the season0 • We were a little bit earlier than some of the northern
markets•
Q:
Ai
Were there any local trucking companies?
There were some local trucks. Sometimes you would find people that would
gather up a load and take it to these markets themselves. Some fortunes were
made that way, and some were lost too, from what I hear. A rather risky business.
Q: Do you know the names of any of the people who did that?
A: Well, the Critcher brothers, Fred Critcher and his f?mily, were one of the
ones that I remember making a pretty big success of it. They are still in the
business.
Then the Hollars family was into it. Of course, the Goodnights,
that's the way they started,, They started with, I think, if I remember tales
I've heard. They started with just a wagon and horses, hauling cabbage and
potatoes to the East or Southeast, selling them that way.
It grew into a very
successful business. The Cooks, McNeils, Browns, you could just about name
any family.':and you would find somebody that's done a little bit of that trucking trying to get produce to the market.
Q: Were there any particularly larger farmers when you first came here?
A: Well, yes, there were some large farms. Most of the large farms were
livestock because they could handle livestock with less labor than the vegetable farm. That's, in what we would call large fawns, there really was not
any. I expect the largest would be 1 0 - 0 acres with £0-68 acres cultivation
|050
which would be what we would call a large farm, which wouldn't be anything,
today we wouldn't call it large,, But, the average farm in Watauga County
�13
has always been somewhere from £0-60 acres, wiich would indicate that there's
quite a number of 10-20 acre farms, some were UOO-5QO acres.
Q: Who were the larger farm owners?
As
Well, one of the larger ones that I remember was the Dr» Peary farm
which more recently is owned by Floyd Ayers, who is now deceased,and over on
Highway 10$. Then we had farms over in Valle Crucis, the Tom Beard farm,
Will Mast farm, the Taylor farm, Don Shall farm, those were fairly large farmsi
Down at Brownwood on the Ashe County line, we had the Coopers, Albert Cooper
farm, it was a fairly large farm. And down at Deep Gap, old man Moretz had
all that land there in the gap, which was a pretty large farm. Of course, a
few of them stiU have farms. The Murray Brown farm, he was a pretty young
man at the time, he had a little over 100-150 acres, rapidly accumulating more,
The Neil Blair farm, where the golf course is now, was considered a pretty
large farm.
ASTC Dairy Farm was considered a fairly large farm.
Q: So a lot of this area that we've seen developed into other things is
where the prime farm land used to be?
At
That's right. The development has taken quite a large part of the better
farm. The Neil Blair farm was a big farm. Where the Hound Ears development
is was the Claude Shore's farm. That was not an exceptionally large,farm,
but it was good farm land. Where Boone now sits, wJiere all this shopping
development on the Blowing Rock Road is, see that was farm land. That belonged to the Farthings-mostly, Grady Farthing's brothers, Ed, Zeb, and Don.
Q: How do you feel when you see the shopping centers and bulldozers where
your best farms used to be?
Aj Well, I have mixed fellings on that. A lot of the people are making an
easier living, at least part-time, in industry, than they were able to make
on the farm with the assets that we had for farming.
So, that has helped.
But, also I hate to see the bulldozers tearing up our land. I think it could
�be done without as much destruction as has been for the last few years, but
they say it's progress, so we'll go along with it to a certain extent. We'll
do all we can to try to keep them from tearing up all the beauty0 We still
think that the farmers are the backbone of Watauga §ounty, that is as far as
the attraction for tourists» There's nothing more attrac tive in our reports
that we get, one of the things that they like about Watauga County is these
well-kept farmsteads and nice cattle on the hill, tilings like that. So, I'm
still a farmer, I believe in farming.
Qs
Do you think that it will be possible to continue with out well-kept
farms and cattle on the hillside?
A: I'm hoping it willo I know we'll have difficulties and we're going to
have problems. But, I think we'll be able to maintain quite a bit of that,
and may see some of it coming backo We've cleared some land when we're trying
to farm extensively that I know would be better off in forests. So, I'd like
to see some of these steeper, rougher places go back to forest production,
which I think would add to the beauty of the area. I hope that we'll be
able to keep enough of our rolling land, sloping land, bottom land, to produce feed for livestock, support our operation, and I believe we will.
Q: Were you involved in the timber growing business, or was most of the limber sold before you came here?
As Most of the timber was sold before I came to the country. We have had
the part in getting quite a number of seedlings set, pine seedlings, poplar
seedlings, and in some cases walnut seedlings, locust..
T e've
also been in-
volved in sane timber stand improvement work, but most of that timber was cut
out before we came or was being cut out during WWII, pretty extensively at
that time. So, we didn't get in on too much. We worked with the land owners
where we could„
�Q:
How did WW II change farming, or change the acea?
As
Well, when WW II was over, the market for Vegetables dropped off, and our
farmets went to other types of production. Many of the boys who had been in
WW II were not satisfied with what they could produce and income they could
get on the farm, so they went seeking other employment. It was a period of
change--the automobile came in strong*, prosperity seemed to increase and the
young people became more restless. Of course, the rural prpulation was too
great for the land to support all of them, so they began to spread out.
Qs
Would you say this was when the major change took place?
As
I think it is, yes.
Qs
Right at the end of the war?
As
Yes, just in the years right after the end of the war. Actually, I expect,
when we begun to get industry in Watauga County, most of it occured in the 'Jo's
which was a period not too lone after the war. We begun to take stock of what
we had, and work with industry to get some payrolls in the county. So, we were
instrumental in studying the situation and getting several facts before the
people. Then we worked with the Chamber of Commerce and others to bring in some
industry. I tell some of them we might have overdone it.
Q!
Were you personally involved in helping to get industry in?
A:
Yes, we were. We were one of the counties designated as rural development
county, and in 1956 one of three in N. C. An extensive study was made of the
situation and the assets and possibilities in Watauga County. We got quite a
lot of help from the state, notable N. C, State University. We were pretty
active in that,
Q:
Going back for a minute, during the war, was there a decrease in farming
because the men were away?
As
Well, we have reduced the land that is being used for agriculture. I think
�16
according to the US Census, only about % of Watauga County is now used for
agricultural purposes. Most of the agriculture has shifted from a row-crop
vegetable production to more of a livestock economu with grass covering the
hillfi, and some of the roughland going back to trees. The income from the farm
has increased from about $1.5 million sales back in 191*5 to approximately $k.£
million at the present time, and the large part of the people that live on the
farm, one or more members are now partly employed or full-time employed in
industry.
So, we would say that our area is more of a part-time fanning area
at the present than it was back in those days.
Q:
What about the crops that are grown? Has there been any change?
A:
The crops grown now are mostly the U-H crops, grass crops, livestock feed
crops. We've gotten away from the vegetables, and the crops that require too
much labor—what we call child labor. There's not as many people on the farm,
the farm families are not as large, they don't have a large number of children
growing up to help pick beans and cabbage and things like that, so we're getting
away from that type of farming.
Qj
Are more outside laborers employed?
A:
No, most of the farming is done by the fanner and his family,, There's
not too many outside laborers employed by the farm. There is some, but not
as much as there was a few years ago.
Q:
What about the markets?
A:
Well, the market—transportation has come in with the better roads and
trucks, so you can get rid of most any crop you can produce. On the other hand,
the transportation through the U. S, , so that crops producedlin one area, can
be qu±6kly transported to another area where they're used. So, that's maybe
reduced the demand for the corps we produce in other areas with machinery, and
the price has become more equalized and not as profitable for us.
�1?
Q: Do you sell the grain crops outside of this area?
A: No, ma'am, most of the grain crops are now fed to Itestock in the area, and
we're even importing some grain from other areas, because it's easier to buy
corn produced at the foot of the mountain than it is to grow it here, sometimes
more economical. But, we grow our hay crops and our silage crops,
Q: What is a silage crop?
A: That's corn that is put in these horizontal silos and used for livestock
feed during the winter months, usually corn,
Qi Since cattle is one of the major animals raised, how do you feel about the
meat controversy?
As We do not agree with the housewife when she says she's paying too much for
meat. If she had to get out here and produce it, I think she'd change her mind.
We think food is still a bargain. The U.S. housewife is only spending around
17$ of their income for food. Most countries, they're spending quite a bit more,
so the farmer, as yet, is not getting his fair share. I think the increase in
price, the increase has come about largely because of increase in the cost of
labor, transportation, marketing, and so on.
Qt Are there any particularly good years that you can remember, or one best
year or best period, for farming in the area?
At No, I don't remember any particularly good years that, there was a time long
about '50 or '51 when livestock prices were quite a bit higher than they had been
before, that were considered good years for livestock producers. Every so often
you'd have a good year for vegetable producers0 Cabbage would bring a good price,
but I don't recall which years those might be.
Q: What about a worst year or years?
A: The worst years were the years around 'f&-'55, in there, when we had unreasonably dry weather for our area, and our vegetable crops were short, so we ran
short all the way through« Those were pretty hard years for us. We can get
�19
them anytime again, too.
Q:
Do you know how the 'ijO's flood affected the soil, and therefore, the
farming?
A:
Only from hear-say. There were still signs of the flood on these mountains
when I came in 'ii3. Many of the little fertile valleys were covered with logs,
ricks, and debris taken out of cultivation. We could see what they called "burst
outs" on the sides of the mountains, where it looked like big patches of the mountain slipped off and slid down the valley. It was evidently, a scary time of destruction at that time.
Qr
Was that land ever recovered?
A:
A lot of it is gradually being recovered, but there's some of it that has not.
Some of it was just graved beds. The highway department has gone into several places and scooped up the gravel and used it for highway construction, and things
like that.
I'd say 1S% of it has been recov ered, but farmers have been reluctant
to plow up those bottoms and make them more vulnerable to erosion, in case we do
have high water. We tru to keep a high percentage of it in sod crops that won't
be—they can be washed away, but it takes more water to wash them away, and it's
n6t quite as vulnerable.
Q:
Have there been any floods or natural disasters since then that have affected
the terrain for farming?
A:
Not to any extent. Some of the river bottoms have flooded a little bit, but
we've been remarkably free of disasters-natural disasters-such as excessive flooding or wind damage, tornado damage, anything like that.
Q:
Could you comment on the Watauga Sour Kraut Factory and impact on farming?
A:
The Watauga Krout Factory was here when I came. They have been processing
cabbage from 75-125 acres of land over the years. They were, I guess, one of the
first industries using farm products.
Sawmills used lumber, timber, but--and they
�have helped quite a number of farmers, probably 60-100 per year, with a small
income, no excessive income, but they've been a good substantial, stabilizing industry for our area.
Q:
When was that started, do you know?
As
I do not know, but I think it must have been just about after the first World
War, shortly afterwards sometime, but I do not know just when,
Qt
Do you know who started it?
At
I do not, I'm sorry.
Q:
Who runs it today?
A:
Mr. and Mrs**Bil Miller-William Miller-are the operators. Mr. Miller's father
operated, it for some time with the help of Dr. K. C. Perryk who I think furnished
part of the financing. So, I really don ft know just how they gained control of it>
or just what did happen. Maybe I should have been curious enough to try to find
out, but I did not.
Q:
But they are still as successful as ever, aren't they?
A?
I think so.
They—I don't think they make any great lot of moJiey out of it,
but they are making a living and they're supplying a market for cabbage, which is
a good thing for out there.
Q:
They buy from individual farmers, is that what they do?
A:
Yes.
Q:
How has—I'll ask you this, then I'll
let you rest. How has your job changed
over the years?
A:
My job, when I started, was working with individual farmers trying to help
them change their management practices, or their production practices, to produce
more and make more money for their farm. My job has been more in the last—well,
since the rural development program in the mid 1950's, has been to try ot help the
people help themselves, whether it be in agriculture or whether it be funding employ-
�ment or starting some kind of small business that would help them with better incomes or make a better living0 It's evolved from a help the people in a limited
way with agriculture to helping them in any way that we can to make—to give them
a better living whether it means more money or just more pleasure from what they
are doing.*
Qs
What sort of assistance has the United States government given to these kind
of programs to help people?
As
Of course, part of the salary of the country extension agents, home agents,
Ij-H agents, is appropriated by the Congrss and that comes through the North Carolina University which is supplemented with some money from the—appropriated by
the state and them that is in turn supplemented by some county money topay personbel and to do research work to try to increase the income or the know-how of farmers c, You see, back thirty years ago, we were producing thirty to thirty-five bushels of corn per acre when the hybrid corn was devleoped and now we're not satisfied
if they don't ge over a hundred. So there's been quite a lot of work from the federal government, the U, S, Department of Agriculture, plant breeding, animal breeding
and soil testing, fertilization, chemicals can be used to control pests, those kind
of things. The research, as far as direct supplement ot farmers, unless you would
call the fertilizer that came through the agriculture stabilization program as a
supplement, why the department has not given farmers the handout or anything like
that. They did give them some money to encourage conservation, and that's one
thing that helped us to get away from plowing up too much of these hill land, those
kind of things.
Q:
Well, I have read a lot about how universities like North Carolina State, the
land grant colleges have poured millions of dollars into developing machinery that
really puts the samll farmer out of business and I've been concerned about that.
I wondered how much they've done that actually helped the small farmer.
�22
Q:
Well, unfortunately I think there's too much truth in the statement that they
have developed machinery and technology that the large farmer or the one that is
able to control the acreage or rent their own acres-a little more benefit to them
than it has been to the small farmer, so I'd say there's more truth than we'd like
to talk about that.
Qj
What can the small farmer do to compete then?
Aj
Well, there are certain crops that the small farmer can produce more econom-
ical, that require a lot 6f hand labor and he can increase his income if he's
willing to maybe work a little bit harder. We think this small fruit crop is one
reason we're into the strawberry plant businesso That's an opportunity. We know
that, with proper care, that a farmer could can have a labor income of from $2f>00$3000 from an acre of strawberries and maybe blueberries, take longer to get them
established, but that may increase to that amount or even more so then with such
crops as trellised tomatoes that require a large amount of labor, at a high income
per acre, other fruits, the production of fancy vegetables, things like that. There's
Opportunities there I think and North Carolina State University has worked for those
type of people quite a little bit. Maybe they can do more, but it's a—I don't
think we've left them our entirely and now at the present time we've got--we're
working three, what we call nutrition aids that are working with'the low income
farm families on a-not only producing vegetables, fruits, and a family food supply,
but on usine what they buy from the stores preparing balanced meals and health
care.
Q:
What is the U. S. Government doing to help the small subsistnece family far-
,mer?
Ai:
Outside of the educational assistance we can give them with extension programs
through the home economics and different kinds of sids, I don't know that the Department of Agriculture is doing a lot for the small subsistence farmer. They are
�more concerned with getting the farmer and his family educated so they can take
advantage of employment opportunities. It seems to me that they might be encouraging part-time farmers more that they are full-time farmers on these small farms.
And perhaps, outside of the few speciality crops, especially vegetables, and small
food projects* Why, if the farmer doesn't want to do a pretty good job of management and take quite a bit of pains, he might make more money on the job. But I
think at the same time, and I think our Department of Agriculture is encouraging,
the use of the resources that they have, such as the land for the production of
these high-income-per-acre crops* We are not willing to admit that the samll farmer is completely out.
He may have to do a little bit better job of management,
and have to get his business established, spend a little more money to get started
then he used to, but he can stiU. make a pretty good go of it,
Q:
Is money available to help you get started?
A:
Money is available usually through the Farmers Home Administration and usually
some other sources to help him get started. He does need to work out a pretty good
farm plan and know what he wants to do, and how he wants to do it.
Q:
And that's where you would come in?
A: Yes.
Q:
Do you see any hope in cooperatives or farmer's associations to kind of band
together to compete with the very large farmers?
As
If cooperatives—if there is a place—if they have a specific purpose and know
what they're after, and have a pretty good plan to go after that particular point,
then a cooperative will work. There's been too much emphasis place on cooperatives
just because they're called cooperatives. Farmers get together and they don't know
what they want* They don't plan far enoueh ahead, so I'm not too strong on just
fanning a cooperative just to say we have one. Let's have a purpose and have a
real need for it.
I think the Blue Ridge F.lectric Membership Cooperative-the Elec-
�trie Co-op, the teltphone co-op, have done wonderful-have been wonderful, and they
are doing a good job.
There is a need for it-there's a purpose, and they had it
well planned. If you talk about a little co-op such as a transportation eo-op,
which I know of, it wasn't planned well enough, and the people were not willing
to use it, so those types of things I think we need to be care ful what we get
into.
Q:
What about a cooperative or association to pool and sell produce or livestock?
As
If the visiting markets are not doing what they should then a co-op can step
in and do the job, but your management in a co-op needs to be just as good as in
a business. Sometimes that's hard to1get. We need to study carefully.
Co-ops
are not a cure for everything.
Q:
Are there any in this area?
A:
As I mentioned, the telephone and the electric co-ops are the better ones that
are going strong.
Q:
I'm thinking of fanners.
A:
Well, of course the PCX is a co-op—it's a large one.
Qi
Are there any that market farm products?
A:
Not that I can think of right off hand. But there-is , over in some of the
western counties, there's a tomato marketing co-op, and apple marketing co-op in
Mitchel County* We have not had a co-op here to market vegetableso I think a lot
of that will depend on if you have good, conscientious markets-private enterprise
markets-then the farmers will go along with that before they'll put their own money
in and try to form one of their own. I think they're wise to do that, because its
hard to hire-you just can't hire the type of management that it takes sometimes.
Q:
What about a farmer's market?
A:
Well, we have-now, let me go back a little bit. Our livestock market is-the
building and facilities-is supplied by an association which is leased to private
operators, so we have gone that far, so maybe I better back up a little bit on
�what I said awhile ago. We do have a. livestock association that has supplied the
facilities, which is in turn leased to private operators. Those types of thingsI think the situation has to be evaluated as it develops.
You can't just make
a general statement, say every place should-the producers should land together to
get facilities and them lease it to private operators* Mayb;e they should get the
facilities and msybe operate it themselves, and maybe a private operator who will
bet or funish the capital themselves can do it. So, each situation needs to be
evaluated in itself.
Qx
Has there ever been an open-air market, where the fanners could bring in thfeir
produce?
At
When we had our bean market, there was-you might call that a kind of open-air
market. There's been little small curb markets, but there's never been what you
referred to as an open-sir market, as far as I know, in Boone, as there is in the
larger towns. So, you've got to have buying power before those type of things will
succeed. I don't believe that you have enough buying power around Boone to operate
a very large market. Little private roadside markets, will do a good job. I don't
believe we've got enough buying power to operate a big market*
Q:
Do you know if any of the farmers take their produce to Winston-Salem or other
cities?
A:
Very few. Occasionally you'll get them taken further away the Columbia Veg-
etable Market, Columbia, S. C. we well a few loads down there, but it's sporadic.
A farmer has a surplus and he don't think he's getting the market price satisfied,
then he'll take a load, but it's not a good sustem.
QJ
Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think would be helpful
for us to know?
A:
I believe you've pretty well covered the agricultural situation. I don't
know, I hope I've given you the facts. Ifve given you my opinion, so maybe you
�can compare it to someone elst, and them form your opinion.
Q:
Thank you, Mr. Tuckwillere
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-25
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with L.E. Tuckwiller, April 10, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
L.E. Tuckwiller was born September 16, 1908 in West Virginia. He graduated from Berea College in 1934 and was the Watauga County extension agent for the past 30 years.
Mr. Tuckwiller talks mostly about his career as an extension agent throughout the interview. He explains his academic career and what lead him to the job. Mr. Tuckwiller was born and raised in West Virginia, so he describes the history of that area and compares the land to Boone. He also talks about his childhood on the farm and stories he heard of the Native Americans and the Civil War. For a large portion of the interview, Mr. Tuckwiller talks about farming in Boone and how he has worked with farmers. He also discusses the loss of farming land to development.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lamm, Joy
Tuckwiller, LE
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
4/10/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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25 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
document
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
111_tape57-58_LETuckwiller_1973_04_10M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Boone, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--West Virginia--20th century
West Virginia--Social life and customs--20th century
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Mountain life--West Virginia--History--20th century--Anecdotes
Berea College
1940 flood
Appalachian State University
Atlanta
Berea College
Blue Ridge Electric Membership Cooperative
Brasstown
Cherokee County N.C.
Civil War
Clay County N.C.
Columbia Vegetable Market
Cooperative Feed Store
country extension
Department of Agriculture
Farmer's Cooperative
Farmers Home Administration
farming
Fort Donneley
Georgia
Goodnight Brothers
Great Depression
Greenberry County
Hollar's Produce
L.E. Tuckwiller
livestock
Mountain City
Mountain Valley Cooperative
Native Americans
North Carolina
North Carolina State University
sawmill
subsistence farming
superstitions
Tennessee
Watauga County N.C.
Watauga Kraut Factory
West Virginia