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An interview wi t h Robert Proffit by Joseph Skelton and Deloris Proffit,
on October 3, 1980. The interview was conducted at his home.
Mr. Proffit: John Green was probably the first person entering the land
we know as Meat Camp now. This entry was in 1788 and the orginial deeds
which started at the mouth of Howard ~ s c reek to the New river and it
comes up to the lower end of Meat Camp. The line runs through below where
Earl Green lives now, goes pretty well east and wes t across there. And the
Ragan property joined that. I don ~ t have an} P·IIOO f he re r- on l the "first one,
just ex actly where he lived. I don ~ t think Gre en lived in Meat Camp valley
He lived back on the other side where Forrest (G r een) lives in that hollow.
But still the property comes in Heat CAmp. Then the Ragan land begin
with that line and it run thr~ ugh the upper end of the Wilson property
where Darrell Green owns now, and across on each side. And it will cover
the area you are interested in probably alot more. Now Peter Ragan lived
there somewhere, on the land that he entered in the 1780's 90 ~ s. He
had a son named James who inherited all of it as far as I know. I don~t
have the re cords on it, It wa s probably entered but it is certain he lived
in the country at least before 1790 and its certain that James Ragan
owned the property. Now from there on the greater partc of the rest of
Meat Camp was entered by David Miller. There',s tracts here and there
that he missed for sorfie reason. It mifht have been one or two entries
that he didn ! t have, I mean that someone else had got in--while he was
entering it. And do you want to take in the flat woods and Longhope on
this?
Interviewer:
Yes.
Mr. Pro f fit: Well it was up-- James Brown, I think, a Brown anyway entered
the flat woods that was in the 1780 ~ s. Henry Harrison ?fains lived on
LOng hope, he moved there in 1788. And xcept for that I th i nk David Miller
owned practically all the rest of Meat Camp. He entered it in the period
a little after 1800 to maybe 1830 or so. And some of it may have been
entered in his children ~ s names. They inherited all of it, or all of
it he didn ~ t s e ll. Now let !s see you can f lip that off a minute i f you want t o .
Now the Ragan ~ s f amily-- I guess Ralph still owns part of that place
over there where Bud lives. Floyd Norris if he hadn , t sold it owns a
patch in there. His mother was one of them. The rest of it has all been.
sold. It reached from well at least from the top of Chestnut Grove hill
to Riddle's fork. David Miller owned land on Riddle's fork too. He
had one of the fir s t entries ever made but it was over at Green Va lley
school house- That's Just about where his house was. He owned from there
way back over on the big Hill side that was entered by h~ s daddv . And
after he married he started enteru.3 on the creek here.
I'll get this burned down a little and we'll go on but before we turn it on
(in reference to his pipe).
I can give you a list of several people that I've found that lived here.
And I don't know that I've got them all. Do you want a description of who
lived there at this time on the place and things like that now will that help ~
you?
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Interviewer:
Yes, it sure will.
Mr. Proffit: Now Joseph Miller was one of the earliest settlers above the
Greens and Ragans. He settled on this place here about 1834 I'd say. He
was married in 1834 and probably lived here then. And his land went from I
couldn't tell you exactly, but it took in over the top of this ridge over here
and over nearly to Riddle's Fork and it went up the creek to about where Will
Winebar?er lived or a little above there. And the next one William C. Miller
moved to Upper Meat Camp about 1835. He wasn't related to these. His land
joined the land Henry Proffit owns now and Flo Proffit owns. It went up
somewhere near the Pottertown Gap on the right and went back down toward
Zionville on the other side. And he bougnt some of it from David Miller and I
think he entered some. And his house was where Lark's family lives now.
Levi Wilson lived on the other side of the creek where Gladys Moretz lives.
He owned a lot more land than sne owns but his house was somewhere in that
bottom, and he lived there from maybe 1835-40 on to the late 50's, he moved
to that section in 1839 or 40. He moved into the country in 39 he may of moved
there directly or he could ~ have lived somewhere else awhile but he was there
probably by 1840, that's the place they call the Tate place now. Tom Davis
moved from Holdman's Ford in Wilkes County to what they call the Davis place
now. Jack Bryan owns it. You know where it is it's up over the Ridge.
And Joha Proffit moved from Holdman's Ford in 1841. He built just out to
the right of where Henry Winebarger lives. lie had a mill down on the creek
just below Proffit's Grove church. I Can remember when you could see the
timbers where the water wheel ~as mounted. Teey are gone no · but --they
was logs in the creek back 40 years ago.
And this was evidently land that
David Miller1 ·m~ssed. The Proffit boys entered it I think. And then David Miller
moved from Riddle's Fork up on Meat Camp about 1844. !le lived in an old
house do~m just in front of where Roby Wineba~ger lives in that bottom.
Jake Winebarger settled here in about 1848. He built his first house just
behind where Earl Bryan's house is in that little bottom. Then latter on he
built down where Harvey Trivette's house is. You can't remember the old house
can yo81 It was a log house.
Interviewer:
No
Mr. Proffit: Well Harvey tore it down and built that house thats there now
on the same spot. And he built it in the late 1860's. Now this Winebarger
was a millwright, Carpenter, and cabinet maker; he built yha~ orginal mill
for John Proffit up on b~e creek before th was married. And he built the
Winebarger milJ l Rt t er on. Of course the orginal has been gone a long time
this is, , I think, ~ the fourth mill now. And Levi Blackburn moved from down on
New river to Meat Camp in 1839. He bought land from Joseph Miller there and
he lived on up the hollar above where Richard Greens family lives. He owned
that place too. Now he was a Methodist minister and he started the Hopewell
church about 1850. The orginial building stood just below the old cemetary
down on a little knoll. Latter on they built another one just to the right
of the old cemetary above where the road is now. Around 1900 they built the new
building over on top of the ridge, where it is, of course its been remodelled
and its been moved a little. It blowed off the pillars in 1905 and they
had to do something so they pulled it on up on top of the ridge, it was down
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on this side a little. And they turned it around to face Riddle's Fork.
And there was a man named William Tridy that lived on the upper end of the
creek on 1850 . He was listed in the 1850 census. He evidently wasn't there
so long . There's a place still called the Tridy cabin field, I think Carl
Moretz ' s family o~'lls it now, Some of the Moretz ' s. Corning back down Jerry
Ellison moved in th the iandr that Clyde Winebarger and Herman Bryan owns
now and that was in the 1840's. He married one of the David Miller daughters.
This was iand that she recieved as her inheritance from the orginial Miller
entries. Efird Miller was one of David ' s sons . He lived on the place that _'
Bernard Hodgeson owns now. The Dayton Winebarger place was part of it to.
And he probably moved there in the 1840 ' s. He married one of John Woodring ' s
daughters and she died and then he didn't marry again up until 1850's.
But, I imagine, he probably built there when he first married. John Woodring
settled on what we call the Woodring Hollar somewhere in that section about
1839-or-40. Jesse Vannoy moved here from Wilkes in 1850. He owned the place
now where Dayton Winebarger lives where Willy Proffit lived. Cristian Lewis
married another one of the Miller girls . He moved to this over here where
R. 0. Mains owns and the Claude Norris family and probably more but anyhow
it covered that . I'm not certain where there was any other outside settlers
before that time or not there could have been of course . Now after 1850
most of the new homes in M
eQt Camp was set. up by families; children that was r
raised here. James Ragan had three sons. John built his house a little ,
above where Bud:s house is now . Up in that hollar. Calvin built down on the
place where Earl Green owns--no I'm wrong there - J . B. Green owns . He built
a house just down below where J. B. ' s house is . And Richard built over
here where Austin South lives the old house was down in that little hollar
just the other side of Austin's house. And on the head of the creek William
Proffit built on the land where Claude lived . His house was just above where
Claude's barn is out on that little fidge. John Bryan built up in the hollar
where Herman lives. Oan Johnson bought the place and lived in the s ame ~ house
that John built for years and then he tore it down. Jonathan Miller moved
out :Ln the place where Roy Shipley lives now. The house was, I think, a h
below or maybe behind the Shipley house. And he may have owned the Todd
place too, I don ' t know for certain about that . James Proffit built about
where Ralph Moretz's house is now maybe a little below it . John Proffit Jr .
built over on t he other side abo ut where Jack Bryan ' s barn is. Austin Miller
built pretty close to where Ann Miller's house is or Albert's . John Moretz
built on up where Gene lived . And Edmund Blackburn built over across the hill
here in this hollar, I don ' t know what it ' s called. But anyhow it was on
land that Henry Proffit owned its beens9ld to some bunch of developers now.
But it was between the top of the ridge up here and where Richard Green lived .
Hopewell Methodist church seemed to have been the first one on this Meat
Camp section. It was
determined 1850. Levi Blackburn moved in 1839
and they probably had serv~ c es in homes for awh i le but as far as I know they
didn ' t organize a church until about 1850 possi~ly a little before of after .
I ·-believe I already described where the church stood. The next one was the
Meat Camp church. It was established July 6, 1851. And it was a pretty
strong congregat ~ on, not so strong when it was set up but it was a fast growing
congregation . The orginial meeting house there stood in the little bottom
down below where the church house is now . It belongs to Gladys Gragg's .
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Between 194 and the old cemetary. And I don't know just when the new house
was built but probably 40 to 50 years af ter that . And that ' s the only churches
I know of on Meat Camp before the Civil war .
What I've heard told of, I've
a book on Stoneman's raid and
ed on Meat CAmp at the time.
you would just be things that
Interviewer:
got a little . The Van Noppen waman she wrote
there was a few references to things that happenBut I Can't seperate that. What I can tell
I've heard people tell.
Well.
Mr. Proffit: Well in the war then first calls evidently was for volinteers
they had a conscription too. But they was people volinteered that wouldn't
have been conscripted, to old or physically probably wouldn ' t have passed .
And theymay habe been some I don ' t have. I know some that would have been
consideres, Possibly from Meat Camp, But still they are outside a little
of the scope that we are covering here. I ' ll give you the names of the people
I've found that went into the confedrency service from Meat Camp proper.
That was John Blackburn, John Bryan, Elbert Davis, Albert D~vis, Harvey Davis,
Thomas Davis Jr., William S. Davis, Richard Green, Alferd Miller, David Miller,
Edmund Miller, Elferd Miller, Franklin Miller, John Miller, LOzeno Miller,
John Moretz, David Proffit, Jesse Proffit, Thomas Proffit William Proffit,
Marcus Woodring, Rufus Woodring, Now out of these Thomas Davis Jr . , Richard
Green, David Miller, Edmund Miller, John Miller, David Proffit, Jesse Proffit,
and Thomas Proffit all died in the service . There was a time went the war
was going on there was raids through the country mostly by outlaws. Stoneman's
raid was the only one I know of that was offical. But at times there was
bands that would come through and rob the people and go on. There ' s one
story of some that went to Jacob Winebarger's and took his horse. They went
to William Miller ' s and swapped with him . Left an old pug that looked like
it was dead on it's feet . After the war and the horse was feed up it turned
out to be a good animal. And I ' ve heard them tell my great-grandmother lived
at the Shipley place, it was the Jon a th an Miller place then, he was her uncle .
Ane she brought some corn over to tne m il ~l that John Proffit had on the creek
and wheb she started back to get her mill she noticed some people coming
through the gap of the mountain on horses and she tried to get to the mill
before they did, but she'd .; ust got her mill and started back when thay rode
up and they took the mill hwa¥ I ~rom her. It was the last she had, and she
had to go ovee to Trade over in tenn . to get some more . And another time
they had some maple sugarburied . They'd made it and got afraid someone would
come in and take it so they buried it in the woods . It started raining and after
a few days of fain they got afraid that would ruin it, and went and took
it up and that night a bunch come and took it away from them . They was other < <r·
things. Out of all this bunch of soldiers Elfird Miller deserted. He ' s the
only one I know of. He got back home and layed out in the mountains till the
war was over.
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Interviewer:
Is that---
Were roost of the men you mentioned were they confederate?
Mr. Proffit:
All confederate .
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Interviewer:
soldiers?
..'Were most of the rad.eds that went on here donel by the northern
Mr. Proffit : Well I suspect mostly it was just what you might call the trash
of the country . Deserters and people who layed out to keep from having to
serve and maybe it could have been some sympathers with the northern cause.
Interviewer: Yeah . I know I was just wandering because of how bad some of
the raids where by northern soldiers further down south. I didn't know i f
maybe it might have been some of them .
Mr . Proffit: Now they was a trail through in the Tenn. Beach creeR c0.yntry .
That was used quite a bit for people who deserted and wanted to get to the
north . And they may have been some gone through1here . Over the Rich mountain
gap, but from what I've heard I think most of the raiding through here was
just you might say a bunch of outlaws. People who had found a way to live
off the other people.
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Mr. Proffit:
in that.
I don't think they was any organized connection with the north
There was a school that stood down in this bottom that belongs to Darrell
Green now. Of course it was just a conscription school. The people who
had children to send payed so much for the course.
Interviewer :
Uh-huh .
Did they pay the teacher?
Is that how they did it?
Mr . Proffit : I think so, yeah. There wasn ' t any school board's anything
like that. Just somebody that was capable of teaching would go through the
community and get parents to agree to pay. Maybe a dollar or so a student.
Interviewer:
something?
Un-huh.
Did he work kinda like a circuit rider preacher of
Mr . Proffit: I don ' t know how that was. Wehad a few people in the country
that was qualified as school teachers. I can remember hearing that my greatgrandmother said all she got to go to school was when she would slip off
and go down to this school. Her daddy wouldn ' t let her go . He wouldn't
pay for the course. As far as I know that was the only school within reach
of this section until after --till after the war.
pause . in tape. l r. -'- t1:, .
Mr . Proffit: He:.;wa·s ' brought r b~ John Moretz. He bought the Cooper place
down on the other side of Big Hill . It included part of Big Hill . He put
in a set of mills there several different kinds of mills and brought Jacob
Winebarger with him to keep up the mill, sharpen his stones and all of that.
Interviewer:
Un-huh .
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Mr. Proffit: Then Winebarger married one of his girls and moved over here
on Meat Camp.
Interviewer:
Un-huh.
Did they have any stores or anything?
Mr. Proffit: Not back at that time. Gargan Council had a store at Boone.
That was-- I think he started maybe in the 1820's. He had the first post
office in the country too.
Interviewer: Un-huh. People were just what more self sufficient than they
needed a store for I guess?
Mr. Proffit: Yeah. All Council could have sold was just mostly stuff they
couldn't raise here. After a while of course they probably got to bringing
in more stuff like it has been ever since. But orginally I think it was
jist finery mostly and maybe salt and stuff like that. The only store I know
of that was anywhere close here was down --was down on Big Hill and that
was after the civil war throgh . You've probably heard it called Soda Hill. - l·
Do you remember hearing that?
P Interviewer:
I can't think, I don't know.
Mr. Proffit: I can remember when they still called it Soda Hill but its
called Big Hill now. But they said the reason they called it that was cause
the i· first soda that was ever sold in this country was brought there.
.)
Uh-Is that drinking soda or baking soda?
No baking soda.
Interviewer:
/
Interviewer:
Mr. Proffit:
5
They still don't call drinks soda here.
Intervierer:
Yeah. I guess that's just where where I'm from.
0 Interviewer:
/
,) Irterviewer:
Yeah.
They call them soda.
Mr. Proffit: Now what do we need after the civil war?
just the same kind of thing?
What particular
Interviewer: Yeah, What kind of schools, churches, were there---Did the area
change a whole lot after the civil war-- were there a lot of changes that
happened in here?
Mr. Proffit: Not that I know of on Meat Camp. There might have been some
Cilffeqmce pt6bablj would· .have been but the way of life all that was the same
on.
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Mr. Proffit: There never was anything here to begin with except just the
natural things and---
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Interviewer:
Well that's enough.
Mr. Proffit: There was no business of
ever carried on here . And there's not
that unless you have improvements . Of
you could pull by tracters things like
was very little change in general. ~~
any kind, farming was all that was
room for a great amount of change in
course after they begin making machinery
that has changed . But I guess there
~
cl' ' ..,::'
Interviewer:
Part of it or something?
Yeah .
Mr . Proffit: It's actually been a part of five counties in its history but
from the time it was settled in here. Wilkes county was formed in 1778 .
I think and it included this. This was all Wilkes county then on some says
to Mississippi others claim it didn't go that far, but anyway it took in a
great part of Tenn . And I don't know I may have given you that date wrong
did I say 1778?
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Mr. Proffit :
Well that's what I meant anyway .
Interviewer :
0 . K.
Mr.
The
and
was
but
Proffit: In 1799, Ashe county was formed and it included all this.
line·-went t not , to far from where it is now between Wilkes county, AShe
Watauga and partof Mitchell was together at that time all of Avery county
in Ashe county. No that ' s wrong part of Avery was formed with Mitchell,
a good part of it was Watauga territory and Watauga was formed in 1849.
Interviewer:
Now Watauga was formed out of thos five counties?
Mr. Proffit: No part of that was took off Watauga . Avery county was in
Watauga county until 1911. The line between Ashe and Watauga is close to
where it was orginially. There's been a few changes to straighten places. And
there ' s been other changes, no point in going into it, a little along . The v Caldwell line and so on . But tis section in here sll that's in Watauga now
was in Ashe until 1849 that's from 1799 on . Now from there was three years that
David Miller represented Watauga county of course he didn't live in Meat CAmp
then he lived on Big Hill. But he owned most of Meat Camp he was representive
in 18-- I think 1810, 11 and 13 . He skipped one year . It was one year terms
then.
Interviewer:
Un-huh.
Mr. Proffit: And as far as I know he was the only politican that we could
clairp, Yeah, I was right 1810, 11, and 13.
~'::.
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Mr . Proffit : I may not have anything down on the others and their homes
latter if I don't we can put it together. You've turned that thing off .
END OF SIDE ONE .
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Interviewer:
Road, about the same as it was then?
Mr . Proffit Yeah, in places the old road bed shows a good it of the way
it was , over in the bootom a little out here . You may have noticed this
low place in the bottom . And up through there I don't know just about where
it left up about Bernard Hodgeson ' s I guess it took up around the spur and went
up around the hill instead of going up the creek. Expept for that it's pretty
well the same. Now down below here it crossed it about 8 or 10 times . But
outside of that well it ' s still about the same instead of going straight it
went the easiest way I reckon.
Interviewer :
What about briages?
They just went through the creek?
Mr. Proffit :
Yeah, had a footlog for walkers--drive horses through the creek .
Interviewer : Did they~I know they did in a lot of the rest of the country .
Did they get --have people volunteer when they started putting--really cuttin
the roads out alot, putting the tops on them. Did they have people volunteer
to do that in this area .
Mr. Proffit: That was appointed. I don't know wheather local, probably was
a state law that a man over 21 years had to serve so many days a year in road
work. When they wanted to patch or repair it, they just had an owerseer that
notified the people to meet at a certain time . I think it was three days that
every man had to give in a year. He could hire somebody if he wanted to, but
somebody had to work in his name.
Interviewer:
Uh- huh.
Was that ever really inconvient for the people here?
Mr . Proffit : I don ' t know of course at that time everybody just worked at home
I guess it wouldn't have made the difference it woild now. After people got on
jobs of course it would be inconvient, but when you ' re just working the farm
I don't imagine it bothered to much .
Interviewer: I was thinking like as times when they might be harvesting and
digging up their crops, that i it might be inconvient for them.
Mr. Proffit:
as possible .
Well, I imagine that was arranged probably to avoid that as much
Interviewer:
Un-huh .
Mr . Proffit: Now on the other things-the work- I mean in the community we had
several people that could do several different kinds of work, blacksmiths, and
cabin makers, and shoe makers and all that. Practically everything was made
in the community.
Interviewer: When people needed something like that or if they wanted a cabinet
made and they went to the cabinet maker did they--I imagine they didn't always
pay them with money . They might have changed services or bartered with them
~.·
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most of the time.
Mr. Proffit: Yeah, that was common if a man didn't have money to pay he might
have something he could swop for it or work a day or something.
Interviewer:
I'd kinda like to do that myself.
Mr. Proffit: And it didn't run to much. It might have cost you maybe a dollar
to have a bed made or--of course that was still alot then waking for about a
quarter a day.
Interviewer: Let's see- as far as the schools what was the first public school
that they had in this area.
Mr. Proffit: I guess Winebarger, no I don't know wheather it was called Winebarger then or not. There was an old school that stood where Proffit's Grove
church is now on the same spot, but I don't think, yeah it probably was a public
school too. I mean open to anybody and it was probably built not to long after
the war. After the building got old they condemned that bottom above where
Wilcox lives and built a school house in it. That was the Winebarger school
there. And I think that's all the schools that's been on Meat Camp. Three's
all I know of.
Interviewer: Did people usually donate their land and the building materials
in order to get a school.
Mr. Proffit: They did on the first. Now I dbn't know about the second school.
I don't have any information on it at all.
Interviewer:
Un-huh.
Mr. Proffit: They condemned the land for the Winebarger school. It belonged
to Chap Proffit and I don't think he wanted to sell it. So they just condemned
it and paid him whatever a comminitee said it was worth.
Interviewer:
Un-huh.
Mr. Proffit: And I don't know now about the building. Who paid for it? It
could have been paid for by state funds . Of course that was--I don't know the
daoe., it could have been after WWl or it could have been before.
Interviewer:
Unl huh.
Mr. Proffit: Proffit's Grove church-if you want more on churches was started
orginally as an arm of Meat CAmp, I think I've got records on that somewhere
if you want me to check it would be better than guessing.
Interviewer:
Sure.
Mr. Proffit: The next church on Meat Camp was the Lutheran Church. I believe.
Do you know what they called it? (Question directed to Laura Proffit)
Laura Proffit:
What?
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Mr. Proffit:
Laura Proffit:
Mr. Proffit:
Laura proffit:
What did they call the Lutheran church what name ,the old one?
The What?
The old Lutheran Church?
Up here; Well what was the name of that church?
Mr. Proffit: Well anyhow it was the Lutheran congregation.
down below Lucy Winebarger lived.
Laura Proffit:
Mr. Proffit:
Laura Proffit:
I know what the---Well just let it go.
But I can't the more think of it than nothing.
Mr. Proffit: When they rebuilt they called the new one
have been the same as the old one but I don't know.
Laura Proffit: I know where the church is and all that.
many and a many of a Sunday up there.
Interviewer:
Now when they rebuilt
~1ount
Well what was it?
Zion it could
I went to Sunday School
Where was the first one located?
Mr. Proffit: It was on the bank just abive where Dayton Winebarger's house
is around a little behind it. Right straight in front of the old Willy house.
And it was--oh-I don't know-50 yds above. the Willy house I guess or above the
road. It's been down for 30,35 years or more.
Laura Proffit: The f irst Christmas card I ever seen. He sent me and Lunda.
Sent it to both of us. Put both our names on it. And I guess its in there
in that old trunk yet. Well what in the world--I don't know.
Mr. Proffit:
Laura Proffit:
not?
Mr. Proffit:
Well let it go.
We'll get on with this.
It wasn't . Mount Zion was it?
I don't know whether it was or
Anyway it vrns started about 1874.
Laura Proffit: Now that one and Hopewell and Meat Camp was the only churches
there was through this country at that time. Ana people went to them all when
there was meetin or something, everybody -people would all go to each of them
and they'd be houses full.
Mr. Proffit: Well drop that now. We're going on. The Proffit's Grove church
according to the minutes of Meat Camp was first established as an arm of Meat
Camp in Feb. 17 or 1890. They had a-- as it says here- a protractal meeting
at the head of Meat Camp. Condu c ted by J. F. Dotson, L.A. Wilson~ David Green
and they reciev ed some members from that and granted premission to hold services
there as f ar as down to Meat Camp and from then on for several years they had
minutes in there records from this arm. They begin making up money then to try
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to build a church house. And I don't know exactly the time I think about 1911
maybe they got it finished and seperated from Meat Camp. That seems to be all
I~ got on that.
Interviewer:
What about the Methodist Church?
M~Proffit:
Yeah, it was--I forget- Ithink there's a sign on the side of the
house there that tells when it was organized- seems like that-- It may have
been around 1911 or 12. I'm not certain now. All the people up there went
to Hopewell to they got that one started. I know in the early 1900's they still
had funeral services for Methodists at Hopewell then. I imagine that it probably
was around 1910 or 11 when it was built. I believe that's the last one until
the Holiness church wasn't it? I don't rememoer that was in the 50's sometime
I don't remember the exact date maybe 55 or 6 somewhere along there could have
been 54.
Interviewer: Have the people in the different churches always interacted pretty
well er have the different churches always interacted pretty well with each
other?
Mr. Proffit: Well, not to a great extent 1n some ways they have. IN community
affairs I think they did pretty much. In there religion they didn't tend to as
much. Each one of them was more of less to themselves a lot of people attained
services other places but that was about the limits of it.
Interviewer: But they did-they were- they did pretty well together in commmnity
affairs and stuff like that?
Mr. Proffit: Yeah, as far as I know there wasn't any what you would say antagonsism
it was just-- .They just differed on what · they believed.
Irterviewer: Have different community affairs or at least needs
community affairs have they changed very much?
i f\' community
M~Proffit:
Yeah there's been a lot of change in the way things are done--back
in the early time according to reports at least they worked together a lot.
In the fall maybe they's have corn s lfckins, bean stringins maybe things like
that. The whole community about would gather in and do whatever was to be done.
In the spring maybe they'd have log rollings clearing fields about all the men
would ho for that. Maybe the women go and cook. I guess that's been the biggest change
you don't find any of that now.
No logs to be rolled no corn to shuck either and
it was said that back in the time after the civil war for years when people
would have there corn in there was a custom more or less to put a gallon of whiskey
under one shuck or pack and when they got down do it. Then whoever get it first
got the first drink out of it.
Interviewer:
M~Proffit:
Then pass it around
Yeah
Interviewer: I thenk its interesting that they were able to take something like
that and make it into a community type of affair and have fun with it as well as
They could take there work and have fun with it. Its kinda hard to do these days.
�12
Mr. Proffit:
Yeah. There conditions was all different. You couldn't very well
get anything now to draw a whole community in. Of course the community is a whole
lot bigger than it was then to, people I mean.
Irterveiwer:
Right
Mr Proffit :
And travel and all that was pretty much restricted to home . You
couldn't go any distance in a day and no roads either . Back when they first settled
this country there wasn't ever a wagon road.
Interveiwer: Do you think. One thing I ' ve noticed about Heat Camp is that there's
not a whole lot of development in this area and ah.
llr _ E roffit ~ :
No
Inte rveiwer
Which I think is good for this area.
would like to see a little bit more development.
Do you think people around here
Mr. Proffit:
I'd say most of them probably wouldn't .
Interveiwer :
Um-huh
Mr . Proffit :
For one thing its pretty well the same families now as it was back
early. Practically everybody in this community is related and with some exceptions
most of land still belongs to the descendants of the orginal families . I think
Probably that would make some difference .
Interveiwer :
I hope so
M~Proffit:
Developing would bring in outsiders . That nobody knows. Of course
this Proffit place over here on the back of the mountain was sold to some developers.
I don ' t know how much of it has been resold . There ' s a few houses been built on
it. I don't know who anybody is . Whether they ' re even from any where in this
country or not . I doubt it .
Interveiwer : Do most of the people-the few that do move into this country-do they
adapt pretty well . Do you think?
Mr Proffit: Well I think so of course some of them just stay to themselves .
They don ' t get acquainted to many. People here don ' t bother them .
Interveiwer :
People still pretty close knit?
MrProffit : Well pretty much . Nows there ' s a few, the Todd family out on the section
toward the flat woods. 0 dpn ' t think they mingle so nuch with the people but yet
they don't slight them or anything like that. They ' ve been here several years and
I think most people who know them seem to like them . There ' s a man bought a place
up here above the mill flune, everyboky that knows him said he ' s a nice man but
they'er was very few that knew him . But I think he's sold it now .
�13
Interveiwer:
Um huh
Mr Proffit: But s-till that's not qu~te the same as a development in the since that
you mean. I mean a family here and there.
Itterveiwer: Right, Yeah I mean like people coming in and building apartments and
that sort of t9ing.
Mr Proffit:
Yeah, I understood what you meant.
Itterviewer: Yeah, I think its really unique to this area compared to the rest
of .Watauga county that that hasn't happened yet and I hope it never does.
Mr. Proffit:
Yeah.
Interviewer: But maybe the strength is in that this area still in the land everythings still owned by the folks who are descends of the orginial settlers. Where
as in so many other places its all just been sold.
Mr. Proffit:
Mostly everybody involves strangers.
Interviewer: They come from some other part of the country, where they come in
here and they, they don't really take the time to look at how people live here
am the way people are here. They kind o f expect them to be the way. that they are,
f rom where they come from.
Mr. Proffit: That makes one considerable difference; you hardly ever find customs
the same in two places. There are people here, practically all of them can trace
connectiona back to some of their earlier families, some of 'em know about all.
Mr. Proffit gets up to clean his pipe and tape is shut off at this point.
Cut back on as Deloris is asking about work ane outside of the area.
Mr. Proffit:
I don't believe I quite understand what you mean.
Interviewer:
Well, I mean like working in Plants.
Mr. Proffit: Well, I don't hardly know that. There wasn't but very little of
it before World War LL. Course there wasn't any factories here in the county
till after the war I guess. Pipe shop at Boone may have been the first to employ
any number of people, it didn't employ a lot. And I'd say that was probably in
the forties--must have been. Tobacco warehouses in Boone went in somewhere along
there, '39 or '40 maybe and that employed a few people at a particular time but
it was just seasonal . Some people went to Lenior and other places to work in
the furniture factories before that, but it was just one here'n there. There
was a hosiery mill--! don't remember the name of it. That could've been in the
'40's. And later on I guess probably that I RC may have been t~e first big
factory. Probably Shadowline was next and the saw plant may be the last one.Vermont American.
Interviewer:
There aren't any plants in the Meat ·Camp area ar all?
�14
Mr. Proffit: There's H & T Chair down here in my place. It's a amall operation.
Course there was a few years that they did a good business. Its still runnin',
but-------I don't know of anything else.
Interviewer: Most other businesses that would be in this community
be like some of the stores?
would ~ just
Mr. Proffit: I suppose it would. I don't think of anything that --nothing that
employs many people or furnishes much business except that.
Interviewer: And farming------that some people might do.
do it on a large scale anymore, do they?
I guess they wouldn't
Mr. Proffit: Not, not much. There's a few people that still with a farm' n
cattle together earn a good bit of money. The Green's down in the lower end.
I don't know, there may be a few others. Farming wouldn't account for too much
through here now.
Interviewer:
Just kind of, you grow what vegetables you need for your own use?
Mr. Proffit:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Did you have a pretty good year this year?
Mr. Proffit: Well fair, I didn't have as much yeild as I like to have but everything
was good, I mean, all done very well, just didn't turn off too much.
Interviewer:
Yeah- I didn't get much art of my garden this year so I was wondering?
Interviewer: This is off the subject a little but do you know what nationalities
the people were that first came?
M~Proffit:
Pretty well. I'd say that practical all of them, the first one's
English, course its' a mixture after all. We got in t .h e country now, the origial, we got English, Welsh, Irish, Scotish, a trace of Belgian, some Danish,
German, and Dutch. I don't know of anything else. Practically all of us have
got a bit of all of it. Now the Byrans is Danish. Morgan Bryan was born in
Denmark and ·.his wife was Dutch. She was ·born somewhere in the Netherlands
I think.
Interviewer:
Holland probably.
Mr. Pro ff it: Then her family moved to France and she was raised there. ~h'" y
~
me~· in P;;± i ad~lphia . .. , Th~- Prof.fit~ \<!a~ En,giish. - There Is a ·nifxfore ·a f 'possibly
Irish and certainly Scotish in the family. The Lewis'· was Welsh and the Joneses,
course we don't have any Joneses now in the community that I know of, used to be
some, And there's well been another family of two of Welsh connections. The
�15
Greens and certain others were Scottish . The
ijoleman's English but their names supposed to
it ' s called- a Viking settlement in England.
in time. But about all the families here was
than the others. After a while anything runs
Davis ' was Welsh, I overlooked them.
have come from .Danedyher- whatever
They mingled with the English people
principally English I imagine moreso
out, I reckon .
Interviewer: Has un-huh- lets see how to word this. Has as far as where people
are living now, in the homes that their living in--has Meat Camp gotton any smaller
you know people living closer together or do they--is there still a pretty good
distance between homes?
Mr . Proffit: Well, they is a lot closer than they used to be, course they're more
people . P.e say ' s (his uncle) he can remember when there weren't but a half a
dozen or so homes on Meat Camp, on the
------
Interviewer:
Uh-huh .
Are you still able to do a lot of hunting around in this area?
Mr. Proffit: Well you could some if there was anything to hunt for . It's pretty
cleared out of game now . Course the turn loose deer and bear and so on, but I
don't think they allow hunting them yet . The old native games about all gone.
Interviewer :
Were there any doctors that lived in
Mr. Proffit : Uh not that I know of.
(addressed to Uncle)
Tom Proffit:
~he
area?
Wllere did Tom Blackburn live, at Todd?
Yeah, I think so.
Mr. Proffit : I guess he was the closest one, there was one, Sutherland- Stopwell
I think. Some at Boone, but I don ' t think we ever had any on Meat Camp . The doctorin
here was done mostly by the people in the community without a license . Now Granny
Winebarger was a Doctor of sorts . Course she was mainly a midwife, but she treated
people for what they had any knowledge of.
Interviewer: They depended on a lot on the midwifes for a lot of the doctoring,
didn ' tthey? I guess deliverying babies but a lot of general medicine stuff too.
Mr. Proffit : Yeah, they treated fevers and ever so many things like that . Practically
anything except most serious things. I don't suppose they tried to set bones or
anything like that . But they had a pretty good knowledge of most of the general
ailments . Now this Granny Winebarger I mentioned was Jacobs ' wife . The one that
first settled here. Sne had a doctor book . Had, I suppose , a description of simptons
and so on, what to use to treat different things. A lot of it was superstition.
Granny Proffit was a midwife too, I don ' t knm.r if she went in for any other kind of
doctoring or not . Aunt Evan Moretz was , I believe she had a pretty good knowledge
of various things.
Interviewer :
Did they use a lot of they used a lot of herbs I guess, didn't they?
Mr. Proffit :
Oh practically all, even the doctors did back at that time .
�16
Interviewer:
Do they still grow many of those types of herbs or do they grow wild?
Mr. Proffit: They mostly grow wild, I don't know wheather anybody cultivates any
of them or not. You can still find some of them in the woods places.
Interviewer:
Do you remember who some of the first teachers were in this area?
Mr. Proffit:
Well I don't know, about a long way back Epheran Miller was a teacher.
Interviewer:
Is this the same one that was in the Civil war?
Mr. Proffit: No that a different one, his nephew. That would of been at a later
time after the war. Probabably a good many years after. I can't give you the
names of any before then, now. I don't think of any.
Interviewer: Were most of the teachers that came into this area, really at ·any
time were they, were many of them from this area originally?
Mr. Proffit: Well, I suppose they all would've been, early. Ephan w-s raised
I guess in there-- Riddles Fork section, which you would say next door at least.
Well he lived on Meat Camp too, I forgot about after he married he lived in the
Woodring hollar. So I guess he probably did live here when he was teaching here.
Course I can remember on a few would have been teaching, but that's on ahead of
where you wanted I guess.
Interviewer~
·: ~ot, 1 well
( '.Delci>;n-is-
) , Yeah . .
Mr. Proffit: Glayds Moretz was my first teacher. Eleanor Moretz was a teacher,
she lived-uh-well in the house where the Barlow boy lives now. Owen .Winebarger
was the first one I can remember I guess. I don't even know back behind them.
Burt Davis was a teacher but he lived down at Riddles Fork, too or the other side.
Interviewer : How many -uh- months when the schools, like the first schools- were
Proffits Grove church is now- how many months of the year did they go?
Mr. Proffit:
I think that was a three months school.
Interviewer:
You know what year that it was torn down?
Mr. Proffit:
No do you know? (addressed to Uncle)
Torn Proffit:
What?
Mr. Proffit:
The old school house, when was it tore down?
Torn Proffit:
I don't know, the main old one I don't know.
Mr. Proffit: Now they used it for a church building a long time after they quit
using it for a school.
Torn Proffit:
Now when I went to school the main old school that had been there,
�17
it was already tore down. That's been about 80 years ago cause I'm 85 and a little
over and that ' s first school I ever went to when Gutter(?) Moretz was the teacher .
Mr. Proffit: Now he lived on Big Hill.
Interviewer :
He traveled over here?
Mr . Proffit:
to Unclel
Yeah, I suppose he did .
Tom Proffit:
I guess he did.
I guess he went home didn't he? (addressed
Mr . Proffit: At that time they didn't mind 6 or 8 miles so much .
been a pretty good walk, maybe more than that. He lived
Course it had
---
END OF SIDE 11, TAPE 1 .
Tom Proffit:
It was usaally out about Christmas.
Mr . Proffit:
Well it would have been September probably when it started.
Interviewer: Did it interfer very much with things you know like the farming end-of what the students had to do at home?
Mr. Proffit: No I wouldn't think so, They probably would have had the work pretty
well done up by that time. Of course the children that was old enough to do much
worked with it and kept up if there was anything to do anyway.
Interviewer :
know?
What was the average number of students that went up there do you
Mr . Proffit :
Do you know how many went about? (Question addressed to his Uncle)
Tom Proffit: No it was about full, but I don ' t know if they ever kept talley or
not, how many went .
Interviewer:
Who paid the teachers?
Mr . Proffit:
How did they handle the paying then?
Tom Proffit :
I reckon they did, county one, I don't know which .
Did the state pay then or--?
Mr . Proffit : County possibly at that time . Of course the earliest one was subscription
People just paid so much for their own children. The time he's talking about I
guess it was county or state one .
Interviewer : Did teachers back then did they ever like talk to the parents of
the students very much? You know like they've got the PTA today?
Mr. Proffit:
No . No I don ' t think so .
Interviewer:
Un-huh.
�18
Mr. Proffit : How it was, was if the parents didn't like something they'd go down
and jump on the teacher . But as far as any discussion now what you mean is wherehow they are doing in school and all that, I doubt of there was much of that.
Tom Proffit :
No.
Mr. Proffit :
Have you got any other questions?
Interviewer: You mentioned a- one fellow around that was from Meat ·camp that had
been involved in politics back around the civil war .
Mr. Proffit :
Yeah, That was before . It was in the early 1800 ' s .
Interviewer:
Was there anybody after that?
Mr. Proffit: 1 don ' t know of anybody
office above the county level or not.
officers but I don ' t remember anybody
Now Spencer Blackburn was raised over
but I don't think he lived over there
Interviewer:
on Meat CAmp that ever served in any political
Of course we ' ve had commissariers and local
else that went to legislature to congress .
here on the Green Place. He was in Congress
the time he was in congress .
Is that state congress?
Mr. Proffit: No. He was national, but he was raised over close above that place
I told you about that was sold off to the developers, the Edmund Blackburn place.
I don't know how long he served, it was in I think, in the 1890's wouldn ' t it when
he was in.
Tom Proffit :
Probably was.
Mr . Proffit : I don't know how long he served he died in office. But he was a young
man yet when he died so he might not have served more than two or three terms .
Interviewer: As far as Meat CAmp conununity do you-~Has there ever been a time
when it was really ever considered as a community?
Mr . Proffit : Well of course in the earlier times it wouldn't have been . I ' d say
the main development started from about 1835 along there. The Ragan ' s family could
have lived on Meat Camp or it could have been a long ways on either side and still
have been on there property. I don't know where there orginial home was and the Greens
didn ' t live here to latter, I mean, on what we call Meat Camp now, it was on further
down . I expect Joe Miller might have been the first one to live right on--in the
valley here .
Interviewer : Say like about 1835 would they have been having conununity meetings
and that sort of things?
Mr . Proffit : No, that would have been a little to early for that . It was-He lived here then . Billy Miller on the head of the creek 2 miles apart. And
Levi Wilson- 3 or 4 families . They probably wouldn ' t have been much between them
at that time.
�19
Interviewer:
Was it refered to as
~eat
Camp at that time?
Mr. Proffit: Yeah. According to the old tales that we use--the name comes from
back when people from below the mountains would come up and hunt. They'd kill
deer and bear and so on, skin it out. And they had a place where they took the
meat and stored it to they went back. That's what give it the name. There's two
or three places that's been pointed out as the camp. Of course that's just theory
but chances are they are all right, there might have been a camp maybe on the lower
end and one on the upper end too. There's supposed to be one down in the field
I reckon you would call it or use to be a field, belongs to the Greens now. Down
the creek below Meat Camp service station in there. Some claims there was one on
the land, I guess Gene Moretz owns now. And theres a possibility that there was.
They could have stored one time at one place and the other at the other place.
Wouldn't necessarily have to be any conflict in it.
Tom Proffit:
Well the camp burnt.
That's what give it the name Meat Camp I think.
Interview.er: Has there ever been any conflict between any of the families that
have lived in this community?
Proffit: No, nothing more than just ordinary spats. No feuds or anything
like that. Actually the most of what trouble thats been here has been between
people that has moved in from somewhere else,' all the killing that I know of has
been between people that use to live somewhere else and moved in here. Of course
sometimes there'd be fights and people maybe be mad . for a few days. But in general
I imagine its been about as peaceable as any community amoung the originial
settlers.
~r.
Pause in tape
-"') Interviewer:
Do you have any more questions?
0
Interviewer:
Not that I can think of.
J
Interviewer:
I think we've pretty well covered everythin?.
Mr. Proffit:
Are you interested in mills and blacksmiths shops?
Interviewer:
Sure Anythings that's----Yeah.
Mr. Proffit: Well of course the Proffit mill I think was the first one on Meat
CAmp. I don't know when it was built but I'd say brobably by 1850 or maybe a little
before. Jacob Winebarger's very likely was the next. I don't know the date.
Thats been argued at different time but very likely in the 1860's. I think Will
said about about 1873 I think he's a little late oa it I believe it was a little
eearlier than that. I can't give you the dates now or even the order exactly
but Poula(?) Moretz had a rollar mill in the bottom where Clint Miller lives now.
Thatwas a lot later through. There was one up at the Lester Wilcox place. I think
the old wheel may be there yet, I don't remember now. The building is partly there
at least. I think the last time I noticed it the water wheel was there but it
may be gone. I wouldn't say. And there was one up above where Dean Proffit lives.
�20
Lark run it for years, Lark Miller, and--Did Willet have a mill there before Lark
did?
Tom Proffit :
I don't know, probably did have.
Mr . Proffit : He had one somewhere in there . Gene Moretz had one on up above
his house. I think its still there water wheel and building at least or was a
few years ago . I don't remember if there's anymore or not . Jacob Winebarger had
a blacksmith shop back early, and latter Will Winebarger had one . I believe the
old building is there yet . Noah Winebarger had one between the road and the creek
just across from the Harvey Trivette house. Hosea Miller had a shop up upon the
mountain a little .
Interviewer :
Do blacksmiths work on wagons as well as on the horses?
Mr. Pro f fit :
Yeah .
Interviewer:
They were kinda like the early auto mechanics I guess.
Mr . Proffit : Yeah it was pretty good business putting tires on wagons wheels .
They used Iron tires on them. They'd weld the tires and put them on the wheels
and they made other metal pieces that had to be used on wagons . They fired plows
and things like that.
Interviewer: Did they do any tanning or anything the blacksmiths, or would they
let someone else?
Mr. Proffit : I don't think so. That would have been-or might be somebody that
could about everything might have probably-- I don't think it was connected with
the blacksmith work.
Show us an Iron .
Mr. Proffit : Ther ' s an iron Noah Winebarger put a handle in .
broke off he made that one .
The handle got
Interviewer :
Do they set this in coals or something set this in and get it hot?
Mr. Pro f fit:
I don't know how it was done .
Interviewer:
You would think he bought it like this .
Mr. Proffit:
Welded without a torch at that time.
Interviewer :
They welded this without any torch that's amazing .
But he welded the handle in it .
Mr . Pro f fit: They heated the two pieces of metal red hot and put borers on that
piece that was welded to it and hammered it together.
Interviewer:
Uh-huh.
�21
Interviewer:
I don't think I'd like that job.
shows us a device used to make shoes
Mr. Proffit:
Put the shoe on there and hanuner it.
Interviewer: Did they--! read somewhere that use to---that they use to didn't
make shoes for right and · left feet they made so that they could fit on either
foot.
Mr.
Proffit:
Laura Proffit:
there too?
I've heard that, I don't know whether it's right or not.
There use to be one size bigger than that like that.
Mr. Proffit:
That's the only one that's here.
Tom Proff i t:
Is it under
I thought there was two or three in that outfit.
Mr. Proffit: Peopl~ made there oym shoes back then too.
for others. Roby Bryan could make shoes.
Interviewer:
Few people made them
Where they just all leather is that how they'd make them, the material?
Mr. Prof f it: I think so. Yeah.
like that for soles, then.
END OF INTERVIEW , .
I don't suppose they had any rubber or anything
MIDDLE OF SIDE 1.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Skelton, Joseph
Proffit, Deloris
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Proffit, Robert
Interview Date
10/3/1980
Number of pages
21 pages
Date digitized
9/24/2014
File size
14.7MB
Checksum
alphanumeric code
d5ab4a2ab3eac00fce47d679659e8c62
Scanned by
Tony Grady
Equipment
Epson Expression 10000 XL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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111_tape490-1_RobertProffit_transcript_M
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Interview with Robert Proffit [October 3, 1980]
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English
English
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Document
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
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Skelton, Joseph
Proffit, Deloris
Proffit, Robert
Subject
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Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History
Mountain life--North Carolina--Ashe County--History
Mountain life--North Carolina--Wilkes County--History
Mountain life--North Carolina--Avery County--History
Description
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Robert Proffit talks about Meat Camp's early history from the first settler John Green in 1788. Over the next few decades, people began to trickle in to Western North Carolina. He talks about the first churches in the area: Hopewell Methodist Church and Meat Camp Church. He also describes the civil war, how many members of the community enlisted with the confederate army, but after the war there wasn't much difference in Meat Camp. Proffit explains Meat Camp well with this statement: "there was never anything here to begin with except just natural things."
Ashe County
Avery County
Big Hill
blacksmith
Boone
David Miller
Early Settlers
H&T Chair
herbs
herbs and roots
Hopewell Methodist Church
John Green
Meat Camp
Meat Camp Church
Proffit's Grove Church
Riddles Fork
Robert Proffit
roots
Spencer Blackburn
tobacco warehouse
Watauga County N.C.
Wilkes County
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/7955776b936911d510652d48df4bdfc7.pdf
88316902588f76fe8dea2556b50fc363
PDF Text
Text
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, Tape 74
Interviewees: Mr. and Mrs. Jim Greer
Interviewer: n/a
Date: 11 June 1973
Transcriber: J. McTaggart
Interviewer: This is an interview with Mr. and Mrs. Jim Greer for the Appalachian Oral History Project in
Triplett on June 11th, 1973. Okay, first I'd like to have your names and ages, please.
Jim Greer: Mine's James Calvin Greer and I'll be 65 years old on the fourth day of September.
I: Oh okay, what about you, Mrs. Greer?
Vera Greer: Um mines Vera Greer and I'll I was 61 the first day of May.
I: Oh and where were you born?
JG: I was born around here at the community center.
I: Wereya?
JG: Yeah, just around the road there.
VG: Yup right at the community, yeah. And I was born in Caldwell County.
I: Have you lived around here all of your lives?
JG:No.
VG: No.
I: Where have you lived?
JG: I lived in [inaudible] state gone for four years before I come back. I lived in Caldwell County, Wilkes
County.
VG: Who's that? I hear another car.
JG: I don't see it. Some folks bought that place up here.
I: Why did you move from here?
JG: Well, my mother moved to Wilkes County to my sister's and my daddy he left when I was four years
old. Mama had to keep me and my sister up 'til I got big enough to work. And I had to help her 'til I got
grown. We left here when I was about nine years old and went on up ahead the creek where Ralph
Greene lives now; got roots and herbs and gathered barks and stuff to get our groceries and clothes
with. Mama made all my clothes she just bought the cloth and made it. And uh you couldn't get no work
�nowhere; there was no work to do. And I wasn't big enough to work and mama she'd wash around here
on [inaudible] branch all day for 50 cents. [Inaudible] not too big a washing for 50 cents.
I: How would she wash 'em?
JG: With her hands and washboard, paddle board. Stand on big ol' banks and she had the paddle and
she'd beat the dirt out with the paddle. It was rough going, I'll tell you.
I: Were there just you and your sister in your family?
JG: Yeah at that time, the other had three.
VG: She was married twice [inaudible] the first time.
JG: She was married twice, my mother but the other two was married and gone. Last, my daddy was
being an [inaudible] sister.
I: Is she older or younger?
JG: She's younger than I am. Daddy [inaudible].
I: What was your father's occupation?
JG: Well, he worked for people, dug ditch and anything you could get do.
VG: All of these cleared fields on top of the mountain up here he cleared them.
JG: On top of the mountain up here, he cleared them. When you first go out up here them fields out
there when you first go out old man Tom Greer's mail [inaudible] on top of his up there. All them fields
my daddy cleared back there.
I: Well, how did he do it?
JG: Ax, chopped 'em. I've seen him cut trees down four foot through with an ax, chop 'em down.
I: How long would it take him?
JG: Well, it'd take him three or four hours.
I: And how much would he make?
JG: Well, he got when he did get anything it was 33 and 1/3 cents a day was all he got out of his work.
Killed himself at work and people living off his labor right now, enjoying it.
I: Did your mother work or was she just around the house?
JG: She worked around the house and whatever she'd get to do for people, haul corn and stuff like that.
Wash and things like that; we'd walk way up here to the creek, three miles down here [inaudible] the
branch and do a little washing.
�I: She would just do the neighborhood's washing?
JG: Yeah, mm hm ol' lady [inaudible] and uh Minnie Hayes' mother, yeah. She'd come on out of there
and work all day and get by the time we had a cow, she'd take it up and fodder. You know, top fodder of
corn. She'd give it about five or six shucks of top for a day's work. And she done carry them out from
around there [inaudible] Creek here in about three miles. And I'd come and meet her in the evening and
take part of the load off of her and carry what I could. I was little I couldn't do much, 'bout five or six
years old something like that. And me and her would get out in the woods and gather herbs and roots
carry it little up here to [inaudible]. [Inaudible] that big brick house up there on the right of the road
there used to be a big ol' store right there where that there cloth place is now. And old man [inaudible]
McNee run a big store there and we'd carry our herbs up there right up there mountain 'bout I guess
we'd go three miles. And the mountain we'd climb all the way 'till we got on top.
I: So you would sell your roots and herbs and things?
JG: Yes, maybe get up there and maybe have a dollar's worth with all we can carry.
I: Mm.
JG: Some of 'em were a cent a pound; some were a cent and a half some two cent, three cents. You
couldn't get nothing for more than that. I've had hard all my life and the highest I ever made a working
was the furniture factory [inaudible] 36 hours. I worked all my life, raised my family, worked for my
mother and sister 'till I was 21 years old. I helped on that highway that goes down the mountain to
Wilkesboro; I helped build that bridge from the bottom to the top.
I: Really?
JG: Yeah, see it's about four miles to do that, no way around it [clears throat].
I: Goodness, what do you do now, what kind of work?
JG: Nothin' I've been disabled for about 16,17 years.
I: Oh.
JG: My [inaudible] to the heart [inaudible] won't let me. He tell me last year not even to put out a
garden. The digging might have a stroke or something.
I: Mm, did you have a garden when you were little and growing up with your family?
JG: Yeah, me and mama gardened every year and raked. You went through the houses sits up here and
you start up the mountain and you leave this old house down here at the foot with the rock crusher. The
two little houses sits on the right on the holler. Now this field right here above the road me and mama
made our bread on that hill there.
[Background noises]
�I: Made what?
JG: Made our corn bread when I was a little boy. We had corn all over that hill. We had a third of it for
raising. We dug holes and plant the corn with a hoe then dug it out and hoed it when it come up, made
our corn up on that steep hill. It's straight up and down now.
I: Goodness, I don't see how you could hoe like that.
JG: You couldn't hardly stand up on it. You'd slide down and fall; we worked it 'til we got our corn
worked out. We made corn out of it two or three years on that hill. It's growed up now they've been
timber cut off it since me and mom worked corn on it.
I: What other kind of crops did you raise?
JG: Well, just beans and cucumbers and maters, Irish potatoes stuff like that.
I: Did you have any livestock or animals?
JG: No, well we generally kept cow most of the time. Dm, I've eaten boiled Irish potatoes for months at
a time for bread. We didn't have no bread and we didn't have no bread to eat. We'd boil Irish potatoes
and eat them for bread and butter. That's what we had to eat. You tell people that this day and time
they wouldn't believe it but it's so.
I: Hm I guess you were glad to get that though.
JG: Oh Lord yeah, I was glad to get it. A lot of times we didn't have potatoes. And I've eaten water gravy
a-many a-times just made out of flour and water and a little grease, you know. Maybe ol' strong meat
skins or something fry the grease out of 'em and make cream gravy. [I'd] eat that many a mornin' for
breakfast.
I: Hm.
JG: Mama made all my clothes. Here, here maybe I'll show you here. I've got a picture if I can find it
when I was a little boy. Where is that picture?
VG: There's one right up here. Yes sonny, they're right up here where I hang it!
JG: No, not mine!
VG: Yes! You're too!
JG: Did I put it up here?
VG: [Inaudible] I know you did!
JG: I'll show you this so you know I'm telling the truth. There it is. That's me and my mother there.
I: Aw.
�JG: I was 21 years old when that was took down at far end of that high bridge I was telling you about.
I: That's a good picture.
JG: There's another one just like it. [Inaudible] my other picture.
VG: Well, I don't know what you've done with it, honey!
JG: Let me see.
I: Your mother made these clothes?
JG: Mm hm, made my clothes.
VG: No, not them. She's talking about the little picture that he had. I don't know what he's done with it.
JG: Here it is! Here it is! I'll show you. I knew I had this.
VG: Damn, I thought that was ones he had...that is him and his mother.
I: You were 21 here?
VG: Yeah.
JG: Mm hm.
I: That's a good picture.
VG: Now, right there's where...
JG: That's where [inaudible] year old when that's took. You see, the homemade overalls and the shirt.
You see the buttons on it. Now that pictures way old, it's about 60 years old I guess maybe more.
I: Oh.
JG: It was took when the old picture was crackled up you know and you couldn't get the crackles out of
it.
VG: Took it from an old picture you know.
JG: A boyfriend of mine had a creek up there in little Triplett and his grandfather's back here behind. I
tried to take 'em both off but didn't get 'em both.
I: Who took these pictures?
JG: [Inaudible] Greene took them way back when [inaudible].
VG: She lives at uh...
JG: Spruce Pine.
�VG: Spruce Pine!
JG: She's dead now. How come you get that now she's around at Minnie Hayes's and uh asked her and
she didn't have one of my old pictures when I was a little boy. And she said yeah, she did she took it with
a little bitty Kodak just made little bitty pictures about 2 by or 2 by 3 or something. And uh she kept it all
this time and I asked her if she'd let me have the picture. She said when I'm dead, says you can have it. I
says well I might die before you go [chuckles]. So she died and her daughter had some made, some
smalls made and sent me two of 'em and I took them and had 'em enlarged like that so they could be a
little bigger.
I: Aw, that's a good picture.
JG: I was about nine years old when that was took.
I: Aw, I bet you're glad to get that.
JG: Oh yeah, I wouldn't take nothirt' for it.
I: Goodness.
JG: I wouldn't.
I: Mm.
JG: I had on a little black hat you see it? You can see it.
VG: That was up here on [inaudible].
I: How long would it take your mother to make a pair of overalls like that?
JG: It would take a month.
I: Did she have an old sewing machine or would she make 'em by hand?
JG: No, she made 'em by hand.
I: Oh and she, where would she buy her cloth?
JG: Go to Eller McNee's (?) store on top of the mountain.
I: Oh yeah, do you know how much it would be back then, the cloth?
JG: Well, it run sometimes 10,15 cents a yard according to what...
VG: Well, you can't put the [inaudible]. [Inaudible] he had surgery on his back twice, got hurt at the
shop. He dropped his [inaudible].
I: Did your mother make her clothes too?
�JG: Mm hm, you had to make your clothes then couldn't go there was nowhere to buy 'em.
l:Hm.
JG: She make 'em [inaudible]. I stayed barefooted Christmas. I never got no shoes 'til Christmas then got
these ol' brogan shoes, ol' yellow shoes with brass rivets in 'em here and brass toes on 'em 'cause if
you're...hard as a rock you couldn't be in 'em, skin your feet all over. You'd have sores all over your feet
and your ankles.
I: Goodness.
JG: It was rough going, I'll tell you.
I: How far did you have to walk to school?
JG: Oh, it's about three miles on the way up there to Howard's Creek where Ralph Greene lives, left at
the rock crusher, and right on up the creek as far as you can go.
I: Oh, really?
JG: Mm hm.
I: How much schooling did you have?
JG: Well, I went to school to the fourth grade but I never did learn nothin'. The [inaudible] didn't have no
dad either I'd look after him. These Tripletts down here all of 'em have a big head and queers(?). They
beat me half to death at school and do things at school to get the teachers to beat me. And uh I couldn't
help it 'cause they'd just double up on me three or four get on me at a time and beat me half to death
'till I got big enough to take 'em apart. I beat two of 'em nearly to death after I got up big enough. And I
broke them and the rest of 'em ain't bother me anymore.
I: They've learned their lesson [chuckles].
VG: They broke once [inaudible].
JG: So uh I was [inaudible] off the road by all the young'uns up them days when I was growing up.
Everybody had well... I was the same about the same as orphans, you know. My daddy's gone, my mama
had to work all the time she couldn't be with me all the time. I wasn't mean; I didn't do nothin' to
nobody. And Stewart Shimens(?) around here can tell you all about my life. He knows everything about
it, knows how people treated me, all these old people around here. And I was treated like a dog, what
you might say all my life. I have been and since I've been married, same thing. People took off me and
beat off of me and you know the same three men got [inaudible].
I: Mm, why do you think they treated you like that?
JG: Well, just 'cause they could get something I had, you know, might [inaudible] borrow it and never
pay it back. Things like that. I've been too easy with people, let 'em go. I ain't doing it anymore, I can't.
�VG: We got a son-in-law that...
JG: Owes me a thousand dollars right now.
VG: Just about a thousand dollars in money now. And we will not I bet you we never as long as live see
every dime of it. They done, you seen that car sitting out here when you was here before. That blue car
that's pushed off down there and I told you that's my son-in-law's. Well, that's the one bless your heart
and they come and got it Saturday.
I: They did?
VG: He told us that his daddy borrowed the money for him and paid cash for that car. And honey, it was
through the American Credit right up here.
JG: He borrowed the money from American Credit.
VG: And went back and borrowed $75 on it besides.
JG: And he's not gonna pay for but he come and got it [inaudible].
VG: But you can tell her to get back on you how you used to walk ten miles a day and work.
JG: Yeah, I walked ten miles a day and worked ten hours and back home, after I go back home by
moonshine.
I: To moonshine?
JG: By moonshine.
I: Oh.
JG: In the woods, you know. Go to the woods, carry wood out, and cut it up-and stow in the woods. In
the summertime, work ten hours and walk five miles this way, I mean ten miles this way.
I: Mm and what were you doing when you were working?
VG: He worked in...
JG: I worked in the furniture shop [inaudible] furniture with my mom. I lived way down on Lenoir Creek...
VG: And then when we was in the Depression though we, we had a terrible time. One of our children
was born.
JG: Me and her during the Depression dug roots and gathered herbs to buy our clothes and groceries
and the baby's clothes.
VG: ...buy our first baby's clothes.
I: Really?
�VG: I went to the mountains this is as long as I could walk.
I: Goodness.
JG: ...crossing the mountains with me, we'd dig roots and gather herbs, sang and stuff.
I: 'Bout how much could you get for that?
JG: Well, it was cheap.
VG: It was cheap then. It wasn't much...
JG: You couldn't get over five cents a pound now for what we had.
VG: No.
JG: And I had to carry it three miles down [inaudible] in the summer. Down the mountain all the way and
carry it two sacks at a time on my back.
I: Was it very heavy?
JG: Pretty heavy, yeah. [Inaudible] I get there.
I: I bet it did [chuckles]. How many children do ya'll have?
VG: We've had nine but two of 'ems dead.
JG: Seven living, six girls and one boy and got two boys dead.
I: You said you had a child during the Depression.
VG: Yes [both talking at once]. I had one good dress and one old ratty thing I'd put on 'till I washed my
good one.
JG: I didn't even have clothes to change in. I wore her overalls [inaudible] my marriage and she could
wash mine. And I dug the ditch and worked the hill and cut the wood for 50 cents a day and had to take
it to mill our flour and a piece of meat or something like that. We couldn't get a dime to [inaudible].
Nothin'...
I: So, uh did ya'll have like a farm or something during the Depression?
VG: No, we just lived in what they called a little sawmill shack. You know where they built shacks
through the mountains, you know, to work a sawmill. And Jim worked the sawmill some after our first
baby is born and then it got down to that Depression. And uh when the next baby come along, and I'd
saved her clothes. If I hadn't saved her clothes [inaudible] went naked 'cause we couldn't buy none.
JG: Two hours a day at the sawmill [inaudible] and saw carrying green lumber and [inaudible] out for 50
cents a day.
�10
I: Mm and was this every day?
JG: Everyday 50 cents a day. That's [inaudible]. You can tell these young people about what it was like
[inaudible].
I: I know it. I've heard too many people say the same thing.
JG: [Inaudible] I couldn't go through it again.
VG: We'd go to people's houses for the raced your own hogs and they'd give us meat skins to season
what little we had to season.
JG: Fry the grease out of it and season your potatoes and beans or something.
I: Oh would, uh were people friendlier during the Depression?
VG: Yeah! We had a few good friends not too many.
JG: The town built her uncle [inaudible].
VG: And then after my baby's born, my aunt give me clothes so I could wear her clothes after the baby.
I: Oh and your uncle what gave you the hog skins and stuff like that.
VG: No, it was another one.
JG: Yeah, he gave us some.
VG: Yeah, he gave us some but there was another one. What was his name?
JG: Dave Frasier gave us some.
VG: Yeah, yeah.
JG: [Inaudible]
VG: We sure had it rough, buddy. And he worked my doctor bill out at 80 cent a day.
JG: Paid half of it on the doctor bill...
VG: ...and half of it to get something to eat.
JG: I stayed away from Blowing Rock for a long time [inaudible].
I: And where was this?
JG & VG: Down in Wilkes County.
I: That's where ya'll were living during the Depression, in Wilkes County?
�11
VG: Yeah.
I: Did it affect many of your neighbors as far as food and things?
VG:Huh?
I: Did the Depression urn affect many neighbors as far as food and things?
VG: Oh yeah, just about everybody.
I: Did the people not have enough to eat?
VG: I don't know but we didn't.
JG: There was a lot of 'em didn't have enough to eat. We didn't make [inaudible]. I was eating, I was
telling you about walking ten miles and working at the furniture shop. I eat oatmeal for breakfast and
worked on it 'till 12 o'clock and maybe make a sandwich, a peanut butter sandwich at dinner time, cold
Cola and work on it 'till night and walk on home.
I: I don't see how you could stand it, could take it.
JG: Well, people couldn't stand it.
VG: People, people at this time now is much as uh we you know have now.
JG: The people...
VG: If it'd come now I don't believe could live.
I: No I don't think so.
JG: Well there'd be a many of 'em starve to death if the government didn't take care of 'em it wouldn't
work. You couldn't get people out here and work for 50 cents a day to save your life now. They wouldn't
do it but I had to do it or starve to death I didn't like the stuff.
I: Did you ever hear about any of the government projects during the Depression like the WPA?
JG: No, well yeah we did too. They give away stuff a lot at Wilkesboro. We never could get nothing of it.
VG: Yeah, we did. We got some blankets and things one time.
JG: One time, yeah one time. I'm talking about food and stuff we never did get that.
VG: We didn't get no food.
JG: And my brother in law, he's [inaudible]. He's got his own farm and he worked for the WPA. And I
signed up don't know 50 times I guess that the WPA and they never would give me a call to work.
I: Hm, I wonder why.
�12
JG: I don't know why they didn't but they didn't...
I: I thought they would let...
VG: I think they just had their picks...
JG: Yeah, just certain ones that would work three days and then the other ones would work three days.
And I finally [inaudible] to call Will and I didn't have any job at the shop. I finally got on a contractors job
up there building that highway to Morganton and Lenoir. I got on that and worked I get to work three
days...
VG: And off three days.
JG: ...and off three days. I think it was a dollar, a dollar and half a day [inaudible]. I worked on that till
they cut me off of it and I finally got me a job in the shop between...
VG: 27 cents an hour.
JG: 27 cents an hour.
I: What were you doing then?
JG: I was working shingling with working with [inaudible] hanging the shingles things like that. Just
anything about if you wanted to know, [inaudible] cut off saw, planters, sanders, two jointers, things like
that. 27 cents an hour and I worked there for nine years. Well for nearly nine years before I ever got a
raise.
VG: Halfway left 'till September we've been married uh, 44 years.
I: Really?
VG: We ain't ever been apart a day in our lives. I mean he's went off to work but what I mean you know
get mad and separate or something.
JG: And since then, people get married and they don't get along.
VG: We don't even quarrel now maybe one of us be a little nervous and might smack one off, you know.
I've got bad nerves. When I was in that wreck, I took I had the epilepse [epilepsy].
I: Oh, have you ever worked any jobs?
VG: Uh uh, nothing only when I was little, I dropped corn and beans and stuff like that for people. And I
take it and butter and milk and take it home to eat for all of us.
I: Yeah, how many were in your family?
JG: Bernie and James.
�13
VG: Yeah but honey, that was after mom married the next last time.
JG: Six of 'em the last time, Carl, Will, Lance, Marie, and Horace. That's six.
VG: Yeah but they wasn't born when I dropped corns.
JG: I know, well there was just three of you. You and James and Bernie.
VG: Yeah there was just three and we had a step dad and he was a terrible man to us. Lord, he'd beat us
for nothin' just beat us like beatin' a dog.
I: Hm, could your mother not do anything about it?
VG: No, she'd try to fight him but he could outdo her.
I: Did ya'll have a farm where you lived?
VG: Yeah.
I: Did you have to work on the farm?
VG: Yeah! He'd give us, if he couldn't find nothin' else for us to do, he'd give us about acre of land to
pick up rock of the bay and we better have that done when he come in or he'd whoop.
I: Why would you have to pick up the rock, where would you put the rocks?
VG:Take 'em off you know pull 'em off the land where was cleared you know. He'd just have us do that
'cause he couldn't think of nothin' else for us to do. And I'd have to get all the wood and carry all the
water.
I: Were you the oldest?
VG: Yeah, yeah I was the oldest.
I: Hm, do you remember...
VG: Pulling drag woods out, drag wood out of the mountains and I'd have to chop it and carry it in.
I: Do you remember any good times when you were little and growing up?
VG: It was a dire some place.
I: You were what?
VG: It was a dire some place. We went out to play, he whooped us.
I: Really?
�14
VG: Yeah! He let one girl, one of our girlfriends, come one time. Asked him if we could goto her house
and play and he told us yeah. We didn't know no better we ain't never went nowhere you know before.
And when we come back, he told us how long to stay, two hours. When we come back, he said you
march right to them woods and get a hickory.
I: Why?
VG: He whooped us for going!
I: Did he tell you you could go?
VG: Yes!
I: Goodness.
JG: He was mean, he was just an old drunk and [inaudible] 'em.
I: Oh, that's just awful.
JG: I'll tell you how we treated my daddy. You know, this white house on the bank down there as you go
out the first one right there. Up on that hill, well Will Willy live there now and he got my daddy to cut
wood for him one time when that hill was there. And my daddy was cutting wood and a log coming
through down hit his shin and [inaudible]. You know what that man done? My daddy went in the house
tied it up to keep it from bleeding. Come over here son and poured on his shin on that skin place and he
had a sore on his leg as long as you [inaudible].
VG: Eat it up! You know carbolic acid will eat you up!
l:Ew.
JG: [Inaudible] And he poured that on his leg and it skinned up like that on my daddy's leg 'til a man
could cure it up. And he had a sore on his leg when he died over there.
I: Goodness.
JG: If I had been big enough and got hold of that man, I would kill him. That's how they treated my
daddy. He worked, the people would work him and they wouldn't pay him for it. They'd say I'll pay you
next week or next day or two or something like that and that'd be the last of it; maybe workin' a week at
a time all he got was what we were eating.
l:Hm.
JG: You couldn't get no 33 and 1/3 cents a day you know what you get out of a day's work then for ten
hours a day. He dug a ditch for people, cut wood, cleared off lands, cut logs for people and roll 'em into
hollers, and burn 'em and everything else, clean off their land for 'em. All these big mountain fields on
top the mountain when you go out, he done the most of 'em.
�15
l:Hm.
JG: People treated him awfully dirty but there's another day coming...
I: Yeah.
JG: ...when they get their part and it hits you.
I: Why do you think they...
[END]
�
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-26
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Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Mr. and Mrs. Jim Greer, June 11, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
James Calvin Greer was born in Triplett, NC in 1908. Vera Greer was born in Caldwell County in 1913.
Mr. and Mrs. Greer both recall very hard childhoods and growing up in the Triplett area. Mr. Greer worked at the local sawmill during the Great Depression. They recall collecting herbs and bark to pay for groceries and clothes.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Weaver, Karen
Greer, Jim and Vera
Source
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<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/11/1973
Rights
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Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
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15 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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document
Identifier
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111_tape74_Mr&MrsJimGreer_1973_06_11M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Triplett, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Greer, James Calvin--Interviews
Greer, Vera--Interviews
Depressions--1929--North Carolina--Watauga
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
barks
Caldwell County
Great Depression
herbs
Jim Greer
North Carolina
roots
sawmill
sawmill community
sawmill shack
Triplett
Vera Greer
Wilkes County
-
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/f3905df2ba703c574ba8227640ecbad0.pdf
444744f7916455869455aa54a4b58318
PDF Text
Text
AOHP #73
Page 1
This is an interview with Mrs. Elizabeth Hartley^ and
her son, William, by Karen Weaver for the Appalachian Oral
History Project in Triplett on June 11, 1973.
(in this transcript Mr. Hartley and "son" are the same person)
Q:
First I'd like for you to give me your name and age
please.
A:
Lizzie Hartley, Elizabeth Hartley and I'm 73.
Q:
Where were you born?
A:
ABout
Q:
Did it have a name?
a mile over up this holler.
Did it have a certain name for the
area?
A:
Arnold's Branch.
Q:
Arnold's Branch?
A:
Yeah, Arnold's Branch.
Q:
How many children were in your family?
A:
Seven.
Q:
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
A:
I had four sisters and two brothers.
Q:
What did your father do for an occupation?
A:
He farmed and worked the sawmill.
I've never heard of that.
�Q:
The sawmill?
Was it around this area?
A:
Yeah,rail around this area.
Q:
Did your mother-was your mother just a housewife?
A:
Yeah, my father was a carpenter.
Q:
Was he?
A:
Built houses.
Q:
So you had a farm?
A:
Yeah, yeah we had a farm.
Q:
Did the children have to help with the work around the farm?
A:
Yeah, the children helped with the work.
Q:
What did you have to do?
A:
Oh, we hoed corn, made a garden, and all such things as that,
What did he make?
Building, he worked at a carpenter's trade.
Is that where you get most of your food from?
raised cattle, chickens and hogs.
Q:
Was it hard work?
A:
Yeah, it was hard work.
Q:
How long did you have to work everyday?
A:
'Bout twelve hours every day.
People worked form sixvo1clock
till six o'clock for 60£ a day0
�Q:
So you rteally felt like you'd earned that, didif'^. you?
A:
Yeah and most everybody lived in a one roomed house.
Q:
The vtiole family?
A:
Yeah, amd we were raised right here in a little ol' log cabin
with-it had three little rooms.
One big one and two little ones.
There wasn't hardly anybody that even had a stove to cook on.
They cooked on fire.
Q:
You had to cook all your food on fire?
A:
Yes.
There wasn't anybody, only just- I bet there wasn't half
a doxon in our community that owned cookstoves.
Q:
Really?
Who were some of the families that had stoves?
A:
My grandmother had one and Mary Carroll had one.
That's the only
two I know of in the whole community at that time.
Q:
I bet living in a small house, did you have alot of fights with
your brothers and sisters?
A:
No, no.
I's the oldest girl in a family of seven and I took care
of the other young'uns.
Q:
Oh, so that's mainly what you had to do?
A:
Yeah.
�Q:
Did your brothers have to help around the house with the housework?
A:
No, they didn't do no housework.
Q:
They just farmed.
A:
Yeah and fixed wood and things like that.
Q:
Have you had any jobs?
A:
Nol
Q:
lfc>u just lived around here on the farm all
A:
Yeah, and people used to gather all kinds of herbs and dig roots
your life?
and all for a livin1.
Q:
Did you all used to do that?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
How much would you make?
A:
Oh you couldn,'t make nothing hardly.
You could a lots a kinds
of roots you could dig 'em and dry them and sell 'em for 2$ a
pound, and people would dry fruit and sell it for 2C a pound,
corn 50£ a bushel and coffee IOC a pound and sugar about 4C a
pound, cloth about If a yard.
Q:
Really?
Some of that cloth now is two and three dollars a yardl
�A:
Yeah.
Q:
What kind of roots and gerbs did you gather?
A:
There way May Apple, Blood Root, Black Cohosh, Blue and Stone
Root, and Quill Root.
Q:
Quill Weed?
A:
Quil Weed, yeah.
Hydrangeas, something that is on the root
list, hydrangeas was then.
Gather pine tips to make Christmas
roping and skin white pine bark.
Q:
What were some of these used for?
A:
Oh, it was all used for medicine.
Q:
Can you still sell them today?
A:
Oh, yeah.
It was 2C a pound.
(Mrs. Greer's neighbor) Beadwood leaves are 15C
a pound green now, 30C for dry.
Q?
What are they used for?
A:
Medicine
Q:
Any particular type of medicine?
A:
(Mrs. Greer) No, don't know what kind.
(Mrs. Hartley)
It's
Oxblood that they use for heart medicine, they sell it up here
at Boone, that medicine for heart trouble made o : of oxblood.
u|
It had a little purple bloom on it.
Star root and Gensang and
�lady's slipper, wild cherry bark, "sassyfat" root bark, that's a
tree.
Q:
What is lady's slipper used for, do you know?
A:
Some kind of medicine, I don't know what.
And Beth Root and
Indian Turnip, sprigmint and angelico.
Q:
I've heard some of these, but some I've never heard of before.
Like I have heard of ginsang and things like that.
They pay
a pretty good price for tinat, don't they?
A:
Dollar an ounce.
(Mrs. Greer)
get hardly nothing.
(son)
Pepper drinks that you but.
Q:
A:
It wasn't back then, you didn't
You take now, you know these Dr.
That's wild cherry flavor.
It is?
Yeah and this here root beer drinks that you buy?
That's sassafras
flavor.
Q:
It is?
I didn't know that.
So they use some of these herbs
for those drinks too?v>
A:
(Son) I think so.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Sassafras and you never see
no drink made with Beadwood do you?
Q:
Is that a herb or root or something?
A:
A little branch.
(Mrs. Greer) just pull the leaves off.
That's
�what we's telling you was 15C a pound, green now.
we are talking about spicewood..
(Mrs. Hartley) Mo,
Them there are beadwood leaves, they
are called witch hazel on the list.
Q:
Yeah, I have heard of that.
Did your family used to use any of
these for medicine, like when you could'nt get hold of a doctor?
A:
Oh, yeah.
Make tea out of them and catnip, catnip tea.
TMey
used to make catnip tea and boneset and lemon balm and another
kind we gathered, bugle weed, and wild horse mint.
What people
hepatitis 'now, wild cherry- tea from wild cherry bark will
cure that in two or -three days.
(Mrs. Greer)-
Lord a mercy, yeah.
I took my, one of my young'uns had it one time, had that for I
don't know how long and I took her to the doctor time after time
and she didn't get no better, just laid there like she's dead
or something.
Little girl came up and she was-well her and
Mizelle was A'sout the same age I reckon and she said, "I had that
stuff and Momma made me some wild cherry bark tea," and said,
"It cured me".
So I said wouldn't j^t, no harm in trying.
ANd
I went down here and got me some and fixed her some and in three
days she's well.
Q:
Did you tell the doctor what you had done?
A:
No, they wouldn^tbelieve you.
it.
He'd say some of his medicine done
�8
Q:
Wild cherry bark, is that what it is?
A:
Yeah (Mrs. Hartley)'
and Balm of Gilead buds you pick them.
I picked eleven pounds one time and took them to Boone and
got eleven dollars for it.
Q:
Really?
Do they fix. them in town or do they send them off
somewhere?
A:
They ship them.
Q:
Did you mother or grandmother used to have any home remedies,
like for Wtan4lvLkids were sick?
A:
Oh yeah, Catnip tea and wild cherry tea, boneset.
If I had to
die or drink boneset , I'd have to die because I couldn't swallow
that.
Q:
A:
That is a bitter thing, oh nasty.
(Mrs. Greer) Corn silk tea's
good for your kidney's if you can get it ciown, but getting it
down.
(Son)
Have you ever tasted any Quinine?
Q:
I have heard of it, but I have never tasted of it I don't think.
A:
(Mrs. Greer)
Well they used to give us quinine when we was little
for a high fever.
Q:
Really?
Did it cut it down?
�A:
Yeah, but it would run you crazy.
(Mrs. Hartley)
was assifidity, you buy it at the drugstore.
That there
You can put that
in a- put that in some kind ofaicokol, it is awful good medicine
for your stomach.
(Mrs. Greer) Yeah, for babies for the cholic.
(Mrs. Hartley) Now you can tell her what you make.
Q:
(To Sofl) What do you make?
A:
Well, few dancing dolls,-and churns, buckets, and lamps.
Things
of that nature.
Q:
How did you get started in doing these things?
Making these
things.
A:
Making them?
Q:
How did you get started making them?
A:
How did I get started?
Q:
Why did you get started making them?
A:
I picked it up myself.
Q:
You just wanted to start making them?
A:
Yeah, well in fact I think I must have been gifted to work
like that because that is what I like.
Q:
You sell these to craft shops?
�10
A:
Yeah to different places.
There's not alot to be made at it
because there is to many in it. Ocaasionally I build a little
machinery once in a while for woodwork as the drill, lathes,
grip saws, ^B^rfLuS. a"d things like that.
Q:
What kind of instruments do you have, do you own that you play?
A:
I have three right now, two guitars and a harmonica.
Q:
You have a dulcimer, don't you?
A:
(Mrs. Greer)
Yeah, he's gonna build him one.
one to build him one.
(Mr. Hartley))
not mine, I borrowed ri.t.
He borrowed that
The dulcimer , that's
I got it and I'm gonna get the pattern
off of it to build one for myself.
Q:
Oh, how long do you think it'll take to build one?
A:
Weil, now I wouldn't have the least idea, because I ha^re never
built one of those.
Q:
Well that makes sense.
A:
Well, no, I just work around home.
craft work.
Do you have a certain job you work at?
I do garden work, I do some
Well, occasionally I'll work away from home <X livrl^j
help somebody finish a house of something like that, but not very
often.
Q:
Oh, so you just stay around home and work mainly and carve all this
�11
stuff?
A:
Well, I have been playing the guitar and other instruments
like that.
I reckon I been where I could play an organ ever
since I coiald walk because they was an organ in the home when
I was born wasn't there?
Q:
Who played it?
A:
The whole family.
Q:
Where did you get it?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley)
(Mrs. Hartley) Yeah.
Roebuck then.
Ordered it fro'm Roebuck, Sears.
(Mr. Hartley)
I am gonna show you.
It was Sears
I have something in a few minutes
It is a 1908 Sears catalog.
Q:
Really?
Is it an original one?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) Yeah.
Q:
Is it one that you all had?
A:
(Mr. Hartley) I found it advertland and I bought it.
In a few
minutes I'll get that out and we will go through it.
Q:
Okay.
What can you remember about the Depression?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley)
Well, I don't remember anything unusual that happened,
Alot of people suffered for something to live on and you would
see people- we lived in Tennessee part of the time at that time
and you would see whole wagon trains going down there and stop
�12
everywhere a wanting potatoes or something to live on.
We made
it pretty good through the Depression, but a lot of people suffered.
Q:
So it didn't affect you all as far as food?
A:
No, as far as food was concerned it didn't bother us.
Q:
Did any of the children leave home during the Depression to
find work?
A:
No.
Through the last Depression, now we went through two- one
±>out 1916 and one about 1930 and the first on I believe was the
worse than the last one.
We skinned pine bark and gathered
stuff and bought food we had to have and o£ course we always
put up a lot of food at home.
(Mr. Hartley) Well the way it
was, I remember just a little bit about it because I was very
young, but the pBople that owned right much property and owned
their own home where they could farm it, they made fairly wellthey growed allftheir own foor, but the people that rented or
depended on jobs- they suffered.
Q:
Were neighbors helpful to each other during this time?
Did
they help each other out a lot during the depression?
A:
Oh yes.
Some did- them that had anything divided with them that
didn't.
(Mr. Hartley)
Well it was about the same way then I
think it is now, there as some people that wouldn't work regardless,
(Mrs. Hartley) and we helped Virgil folks down here out.
had a big family.
They
�13
They didn't have - they owned their own home, but they didn't make
much.
We helped them out a lot.
We always kept hogs , we killed
hogs every fall, had plenty of meat, kept cows and had plenty of milk
and butter and things like that.
And then we growed a lot of corn
and potatoes and beans and all kinds of stuff like that.
Q:
What about -this first depression?
in 1916.
A:
I had never heard about it-
What can you remember about it?
I don't remember to much about that.
remember that at all can you Vear?
But these people- you can't
It was hitting pretty hard on
them, at that time, them that didn't have nothing to live on.
And we gathered pine bark and all such things as that in order
to buy the the things you can't raise like sugar and coffee,
salt and stuff like that.
(Mr. Hartley)
Made no difference
what you took to the store when they ran out of herbs at regular
how much, you never got no money for it.
If you get enough you
get it all up in groceries or whatever you needed.
They wrote
out what they called a due bill.
Q:
A what?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) A due bill.
not a penny.
Wouldn't never give you no money,
People couldn't hardly get enough money to pay
their taxes at all.
Q:
What did they do when they couldn't pay their taxes?
A:
They just let them go until they could pay them.
�14
Q:
Just let it pile up kind of?
A:
Yeah, our tax never did.
We never did have our property advertised
for tax, but the last paper we got there's two whole pages people's
land advertised for tax.
Q:
They advertised it for sell for their tax.
A:
So they could pay their tax they were gonna sell their li'.nd—
A:
Mo they had to pay it with that.
Now a lot of people owns enough
that they pay their tax and never miss it, but they don't want to
you see.
(Mr. Hartley) What's the matter with times now they're
taxing people so high and they're getting sick of it.
(Mrs. Hartley)
They will tax them so high that they CQiA't pay it hardly.
Q:
You said that your father had a farm.
Did he ever take any of
his products into towns to sell?
A:
No not much, well they used to.
Used to take a yoke of oxsns and
a load of Irish potatoes to Lenoir.
Take them about three days to
go «Iown there and back and they would take them a load of Irish
potatoes down there to town and sell them and bring back a load of
flour.
Q:
How would he get it?
Would he get his flour like in
A:
Iibags just like it's bought now, cloth bags.
back a thousand ppund6 at one tirae.
I have seen him bring
�15
Q:
A thousand?
How long would it take you all to run through a
thousand pounds of flour?
A:
Oh, we didn't use it all.
He let other people have alot of it.
I would ruin before we could use a thousand pounds.
Q:
What else could he get besides flour?
When he took his produce
in what else could he bring hack?
A:
Well he never did bring anything , but flour.
Q:
Is that all?
A: .Yeah.
You see they had a little grocery store round here just
below the church and there's one down on the creek and you could
get all things like that, well we could have got flour, but I
remember Wivius_ 4iu/ju. wasn't no flour in the stores, nor no meal either,
Q:
Why not?
A:
They just didn't sell it then.
the flour mills to but flour.
They'd have to go to Lenoir to the
(Mr. Hartley) We raised wheat, lot
of wheat, had to take it to the mill and have it ground.
Q:
Did you have a lot of wheat?
A:
No, not too much.
Q:
Just enough to live off of?
A:
Yeah, we raised wheat and rye, cut it by hand.
�16
Cut it with an old-fashioned cradle.
I bet you've never seen one
one of them.
Q:
A:
I don't know whether I have or not.
Oh they had a blade that long and then a little bitty fingers
on it about- they's little bigger round than your finger and I
guess they was about 40 inches long.
You'd just take that
cradle, swing it around, get you a bundle and just pour it off
of it.
You'd get about a bundle ever lick.
and rye both.
I've bound wheat
Go along behind the cradle and tie it up in shocks
and let it dry and then stack it or thrash it- stack it and then
the thrashing machine come and thrashed it, after there got to
be any thrashing machines.
A lot of people thrashed it out by
hand.
Q:
How would you do that?
A:
Fixed them a thrasing floor and spread that our on it and just
beat that grain out of it.
Q:
Oh, I ' l l bet that was hard work, wasn't
A:
Yeah.
it?
Then you could hold it up and the wind was blowing it'd
blow every bit of the chaff and trash out of it and you just had
clean wheat.
Q:
Isn't there something in the "Bible about the wind blowing the chaff
away.
�17
A:
Yeah
Q:
With all the work around the farm, when did you all find time
to play?
A:
When you were children?
Oh we didn't play none.
I was having to tend to the young'uns
till I got too big to play.
Q:
So you never got to play?
A:
No, No.
Q:
Did your brothers and sisters ever have any little games that
I didn't play none.
No.
they used to play?
A:
Oh yeah.
Played ball and once in a while I could get time to
jump rope or something.
(Mr. Hartly)
Q:
What would you do?
A:
Veil, we'd get out and maybe we'd go somewhere there's a big
a big whole of water- go swimming, or we'd get out in a good
cool place in the voods, set around and talk, find us a good
grapevine to swing on and played with that.
Then after we ' <'
learned to play music we'd get together some of us over the
weekends, get back where it was cool at.
Maybe a whole crowd
of us gather around, play sing, and dance.
sometimes keep as many as four cows
(Mrs. Hartley) We'd
and it's whole lot of trouble
to take care of youTmilk and keep it clean.
�18
Q:
How would you go about doing it?
A:
Well, you'd just milk the cows and then strained your milk and
diurn, make butter.
And we kept four or five old hogs all the
time and we'd feed the hogs milk and now give $1.;35 a gallon
for milk.
Q:
Did you have any kind of ice box or something to keep your milk
and stuff in?
A:
No, but it kept in the spring.
Kept a race below the spring
water ran in it all ihe time.
Q:
Oh, I bet it kept a lot colder, too, didn't it?
A:
Yeah, it kept it good and cold.
We had a spring box down here
when we lived here and we kept our milk in the water.
(Mr.
Hartley) The way we'd do-that we'd get some kind of good wide
board, make a box*
Make it waterproof.
Go right down below
the spring, we'd dig out a space in that branch there that
would fi>^ it so the water would stand about eight inches deep
in the box -and the W^W- hjojld, flow through that box all the time
and that's what kept the milk and butter cold.
Q:
Looks like after a while the water would start to rot the box
or something.
A:
Oh, it won't run under the water at all.
�19
Q:
What the box. wouldn't be under water?
A:
No, not under water, no.
Q:
How long did you have to use it like this before you got an icebox1
A:
I guess about my whole lifetime up until about thirty years ago.
Q:
Really?
A:
About thirty of thirty-five years old.
I guess I was thirty-five,
maybe forty before we ever got refrigerator.
our first refrigerator in '55.
five years old then.
(Mr. Hartley) We got
(Mrs. Hartley) Well,X was fifty-
(Mr. Hartley)) Well, you see we didn't get
ttie electricity until '54, then '55 we got the refrigerator.
(Mrs. Hartley) We didn't have no electricity till about '54.
Q:
Iteally?
A:
(Mr. Hartley)
They didn't nobody around down in here have no
electric til right up around '53.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Electric wasn't
down in here til that time.
Q:
Wasn't that hard not having electricity?
A:
Well you never was used to it, you wouldn't miss it, if you never
knew nothing about it. But now if you were to go back and didn't
have electricity it would be rough.
It would be bad now.
never was a car down here til about '22, 1922.
down here.
There
Not even one car
�20
Q;
Really?
Do you remember if that is that the first time you had
ever seen a car?
A:
Oh, no.
I had rode in a car before that time.
Q:
Wiat did you think about the car when you first saw it?
A:
Oh, I didn't think much about it.
First car I was ever in was
Charlie Watson's, when Roxy and Deity, my two sisters went to
Boone to lave their tonsils out.
and I rode in that car.
taken out.
That was nineteen and eighteen
I went with them to KuVt- their tonsils
But the first car that was ever down in here was
Seymore Carroll's car and they never was a car down in here til
'22.
Q:
Why not?
Just nobody down here had one?
At
No they couldn't get in and out of here.
There wasn't no road.
Couldn't get in and out, no there wasn't no road they could drive on.
Q:
So that's how you traveled before you had a car?
A:
Yeah, walked.
I walSed.
I could walk then.
First time I ever went to Boone
I was eighteen years old before I ever went to Boone.
Q:
How long would it take you getting there wilking?
A:
Oh not long, not too long, no.
Deerfield, that way.
Went up to Jake's mountain through
�21
And the first time I ever went to Boone I went up there to my mothers
sisters, walked up there.
We got back home about two o'clock.
Q:
Did you?
And that is the first time that you had been to Boone?
A:
First time I ever went to Boone I was eighteen years old.
Q:
What did you think about it?
What did it look like when you were
eighteen, what did the town look like?
A:
I don't remember. cThere wasn't too many buildings there.
I remember
Roby Blackburn's, went into see him, she-her son had died and
she went up there to, have , be appointed administrator.
Roby Blackburn up there and he asked me how old I was.
And I saw
I told him
I was ei ghteen and he said I was old enough to begin to court
just a little bit but I wasn't old enough to get married yet.
Now most all the buildings that was up there at town, I would say
fourteen years ago, was torn down.
Q:
Really?
What kind of buildings were up there?
A:
Well, there's some of them was dwellings and some of them was
for business purposes.
Now up at the place where I bought my
first Gibson guitar I ever owned was tore down.
the theater is at?
You know that parking lot just above it?
Right there.
Q:
You know where
That is where it was?
The store?
�22
A:
Yeah, it belonged to Richard Greene.
Q:
Richard Greene?
A:
Yeah he owned it.
He owned the store?
He had his music store in the basement of
his house.'
Q:
And it/s torn down?
A:
He is dead now.
Did he go into another business or what?
I have got the guitar now yet, the one I bought
from him.
Q:
The very first one you bought?
A:
No, it is just the third one but it is the first Gibson.
Q:
Oh, -that is the kind that my brother has.
I think it is a Gibson.
When'did you get your first guitar?
A:
The first guitar I got was in, the first one that I ever owned
I got it in 1936.
Q:
Who did you get it from?
A:
Sears and Roebuck.
Q:
Did you?
A:
Uh huh.
Do you still have it?
I wished I had kept it. A guitar like it today costs
$32.00 and that one costs four dollars and thirty-nine cents.
�23
Q:
What kind was it.
A:
Silverstone.
Q:
Prices have certainly changed.
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) You could get a good cow for $15.00 but you had
to work thirty days to get that $15.00.
Q:
WMit, just doing any kind of work?
A:
Any kind of woirk that you done you just got 50C a day and you had
to go to work at 6:00 of the morning and work till 6:00 of the
evening, for 50C.
Q:
That is the most you could make was 50£?
A:
50C, 50C a day, and people got so they could get a dollar a day
for work and they thought they's going to town.
Women, when they
worked they got 25C a day and the woman would do just as much a«
the man, they got, a man got, 50C a day and that wasn't fair.
Q:
What kind of jobidid the women have to do?
A:
Oh, they would get and work in the fields hoeing corn and working
out like tbat.
Q:
What about the men, what did they do?
A:
They would do things like that too.
Worked in timber and the saw-
�24
mill, cut timber and logs, and I worked in the sawmill. They wasn't
no way to get lumber out of here only haul it out with,* team.
Couldn't
get in here with a truck.
Q:
Either oxen or horses?
A:
Oxens or horses.
Q:
Didn't you say that your father worked wi-fk the sawmill?
A:
Yes
Q:
Would he just cut up the lumber?
A:
He usually logged.
Q:
Logged?
A:
Pull logs into the sawmill out of the mountains.
What would he do, what do you mean by logging?
He'd pull them
with teams and he done a lot of carpenter work, too.
(Mr. Hartley)
He helped build every house that was built in the neighborhood,
until he died.
Q:
He was probably a pretty \\&rd worker then, pulling all that stuff.
A:
Yeah
Q:
How long has it been since you have made a quilt?
A:
I ain't been too long.
four years.
(Mrs. Greer-neighbor)
It's been about
(Mrs. Hartley) I guess it has since we made one.
But I've got some more to make cause I have got some to quilt.
�25
I ain't got nowhere to put them up to quilt.
Ain't got room in here
and it is too hot upstairs in the summer time and too cold in the
winter time.
Q:
Where did you used to quilt them?
A:
We'd quilt them right here but we didn't have as many things in
this room,
(Mrs. Hartley left the room to get a quilt to show me so I talked
to Mr. Hartley about school until she got back.)
Q:
How much schooling did you have?
A:
I went to the fourth grade and then I got sick end had to quit.
Q:
Do you remember your first year of school, the Very first day of
of school?
A:
Yeah, I didn't like it.
Q:
You didn't like it?
A:
Well, I didn't like my teacher awfully good.
Q:
Where did you go to school?
Ai
It was down here.
Why not?
I tell you, you know down yonder where come
down, you know where the church is around there?
Well, you know
where you come on down to that road you turn left to come straight
on down
this way?
Well you remember after you got on down, you
�26
remember that house that's setting over that creek?
Right there
was where the school house was at.
Q:
Really?
How long has it been since they have torn it down?
A:
They te.d the last school house there at the '40 flood.
(Mrs. Hartley returned with her quilt)
Q:
Oh, this is beautiful!
When did you make this one?
A:
It ain?.t been too long since we quilted this one.
Q:
Is this a certain pattern?
A:
Star. (Mr. Hartley)
If she wants to make a certain design in
her quilting, I help her figure her patterns out.
Q:
Do you make up the patterns?
A:
Yeah
Q:
I knew that there were some certain patterns to go by but I
didn't know that you all had made these up.
pretty.
A:
Oh, these are
Now, do you do these by machine or hand or what?
(Mrs. Hartley) I can do it by hand or by machine or either one,
It is quilted by hand.
Q:
Are you ging to go back to quilting?
A:
I don't know.
I don't know whether I could or not.
I've got
�27
I ain't hardly able to do nothing.
A:
(Hr. Hartley)
People used to talk about seeing such hard times
back then, I don't wonder at it.
Took everything they could
rake and scrape to buy buttons with to go on the clothes aad
they was made of brass, and brass never was cheap.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Well, people back then didn't know how to have nothing.
The land
vas worth three times as much as it is now and -they planted about
four hill of corn to the acre.
(Mr. Hartley)
They would plant
•the corn four foot apart each way.
Q:
They just didn't know?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) Didn't know hosr to do it.
take you right now and show you a farm.
(A\r. Hartley) I can
It is in Ashe County
and it is a beautiful farm too and way back, it is a great big
farm about 300 acres was sold for one old hog rifle.
Swapped
for one rifle.
Q:
Really?
Whose farm'-is it?
A:
Cooper's, Cooper's farm.
(Mrs. Hartley) People used to buy all
all the land the land they wanted for $4.00 an-acre.
(Mrs. Hartley)
Sell any kind of old bluff for $2.00 an acre.
Q'i
Why do you think their has been such a drastic change in the prices
of land and everything>else?
A:
Well I don't know.
People has just got to be bigger dogs than
�28
they used to be I reckon.
(Mr. Hartley) and what's run the prices of
land up here in the mountains so much is the people from Florida and
also from the North coming back here, and what I think has really
happened is people has made so much money they either have a farm
or a lot that costs just so they got it.
See they could buy that
land cheaper than they could pay their income tax.
Q:
What do you all think about all these people coming from Florida
aid like from the North coming in and building houses and all these
condominiums and things on top of mountains?
A:
(Hrs. Hartley) Well, I don't exactly approve of that, do you?
(Mr. Hartley) Well, I will tell you what I think about that.
I think we should hold that more or less for the people in our
own state.
a home.
Now say for instance,say you wanted to go buy you
How much more would that home cost you on that account?
A 30, a $25.000 and a $30.000 home now ain't worth over $45.000.
And they will burn you. up building it.
And'the labor costs on
a home now is more than the material to build it.
people wfisn^t work like they used to did.
Because
And most of the contractors
when you build now, they build you a house at costs plus 10%.
Well they don't try to save nothing on that building material.
They don't try to save nothing on the lot.
Now they don't care
how long it takes them to build it, why the more they are going
to make.
self.
(Mrs. Hartley}
Well, built our house practically his
He cut every piece of framing in it but three.
it his self.
He built
�29
Q:
How long did it take you to build it?
A:
Well, in getting my^timber out and having it sawed, it took me a
little over a year.
See, I cut my own logs and had them sawed.
I built this houee for a little less thafa $22.00.
I am thinking
about, I don't know whether I will or not, I been thinking a little
bit about building me another one.
Me and a friend of mine are
going to buy a sawmill, in fact we are going to build us one
a piece.
Yeah, we are going to cut our own timber.
Q: Where would you build it?
A:
I would probably build right around here somewhere and my friends
gonna build one about a quarter of a mile on up above here.
Right
there's where I was born and raised.
Q:
You said awhile ago when I was talking to
you about school.
Do
you remember any experiences that you had in grade school?
A:
Well, not but a very few of them, Matter of fact, what I liked
about school, only it was different than it is now.
We run up with
a problem then in school that you didn't know what to do with, your
teacher, she would come to your seat and sit with you and explain
dt to you and help you, or my teachers would.
She would work with
the whole class like that as long as we had her for a teacher.
learned in school and learned and learned fast.
And my favorite
subject was arithmetic, but today we call it math.
Q:
How much schooling did you have Mrs. Hartley?
We
�30
A:
They just, when I was growing up they was just three months school.
Maybe I would get to go two or three days during the whole term.
never went to school none to amount to
nothing.
I
(Mrs. Greer) She
can out read any body you ever seen.
Q:
Did you teach yourself to read?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
You did?
A:
Well, •-! just got to reading every little thing I could come across.
How did you know how to teach yourself?
(Mrs. Greer)
there?
Q:
You see all them books and things stacked up across
She reads everything in the world.
That is really good.
What about your brothers and sisters, did
they get to go to school?
A:
Oh yeah, they went to school.
Q:
Did your parents go to school?
A:
Yeah, both of them could read and write.
Q:
How many years did £hey go?
A:
I don't know.
They didn't have no school much.
Back then children
didn't get to go to school, they had to work, and their wasn't
no compulsion school laws then.
Q:
I never went to school none hardly.
Do you know what they used'to do Hor discipline in the schools?
�31
A:
Used to whip them.
stand up.
Sometimes make them slay in.
Sometimes make them
I was going to school in an old log cabin, and one
boy, they made him stand up and he fainted.
He was a grown man
just about, Granville Tripplett.
Q:
Who was it?
A:
Qranvilfc Tripplett.
Q:
Do you say you went to school in a log cabin?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Was it one room?
A:
fust one room and they didn't have no glass in them, just open
He is dead now.
windows and a big old fireplace, they kept a fire in it, big old
chimney, kept a fire in.
Q:
Who would keep the chimney supplied with wood?
A:
Well, the students would.
Yeah, they was woods all around it and
and they would cut the wood.
Q:, About how many students would be in the classroom?
A:
They would be about.
I've got a group here of pictures taken,
maybe I can find it.
Q:
What did they used to do for discdpLine when you went to school?
A:
(Mr. Hartley) Well, sometimes they would use a switch on them,
�32
sometimes a paddle or they'd rnark a ring out in the center of the
floor and make them stand on one foot for a certain length of time.
Q:
What if they would fall?
What would the teacher do if they lost
their balance?
A:
Send them back to their seat.
Then alot of times they would make
them mark a ring on the floor and make them hold their arm up
like that for a certain length of time, ot again go up and put a
dot on the board and make them stand on their tiptoes with their
nose in that dot on the chalkboard.
Q:
Just anything they could think of to do.
A:
Yeah.
But I will tell you though, the teacher I had was good to
them but she kept them under control.
Q:
Was she a strict teacher?
A:
Well, the same teacher I went to was my first grade teacher, second,
third and fourth grade as the grades come up for me, why she got up,
she come up and started teaching higher grades.,
Q:
Who was she?
A:
It was Ollie Triplett at that time, it is Ollie Thompson now.
Q:
So she would just move up with you all in the grades?
As you
would move up to another grade, she would move up?
A:
Well, see she would go to school herself when school was out.
She
�33
would build herself up to it,.
She'd teach around here and -then when
school was out she would go to college.
Q:
Well how would the teacher go about teaching if you were all
different ages?
A:
Would he teach you all at one time?
No, they had certain classes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and
7th grades.
Q:
Would they all be in the same room?
A:
Yeah.
Q:
What would the other ages be doing when he was teaching another
age group?
A:
They was, they'd just call them up to class and have them recite
one class at a time.
Q:
What would the others be doing though?
A:
Be studying.
(Mr. Hartley)
I believe folks back then days too
Wis alot stricter with their younguns than they are now.
Back
then it is a possibility that they were too strict with their
family andnow it is a possibility that some of them are not strict
enough.
Don't you believe that a lot of this doping that has got
dnto the college and many different places, don't it start at the
students homes?
Q:
I couldn't really say.
�34
A:
(Mrs. Hartley) No, I don't really believe parents, if they know
that, I don'tAtheir parents would allow it. Of course alot of the
parents are dopes too.
(Mr. Hartley) Yeah, what I mean, I think
alot of times I believe these things begins at home.
Q:
Probably so.
Probably has the roots of it at home.
A:
Or at least in the hometown.
You see, the students that go to
college up there are from all over.
some cases their from other nations.
All over the nation and
I don't know you might not
agree but I think in America, I don't think they should allow
anybody in Boone to have schools but for theJAmerican students.
And you know that as messing up our nations too much and that is
giving other nations the chance to learn too much about our affairs,
Q:
You think they should stay in.their own nations and country and
go to their own schools?
A:
I think that we'd be better off.
Q:
That is interesting.
A:
This United Nations"4Keu have got I don't think too much of fchat.
Because we are paying for all of it and the other nations are
paying for none of it.
Q:
We are paying all the expenses.
You don't think that it is helping keep peace or something with
other countries or anything?
A:
There^ is no way to keep peace with other countries because we have
�35
done found, looks to me we've done found that out.
All they are
doing now, just trying to get everything out of us
that they can
and we are giving it to them.
Now I have had people that stayed in
i
Germany for three or four years andhow I had a cousin, her and her
husband stayed ovet there for four years and she told me that the
German people had any love for Americans they did not.
they hated our guts.
fact.
(Mrs. Hartley)
She said that
And I wouldn't doubt it that ain't about the
Now I think that our government authorities is
just doing the American people awful wrong.
They are taxing them out
of all reason in the world and then sending it to them people over seas
now that is not fair.
I don't think they should do that.
(Mr. Hartley)
Well, now you know when they settled this here peace treaty there in
Vietnam, whenithey went- and signed that peace treaty and they wanted to
i
give North Vietnam so many million dollars, two and and a half million,
I think, and South Vietnam two and a half million , I agree with you
that isn't fair, it isn't fair.
Q:
What, to give them the money?
A:
To give thm the money to build back with.
They was the ones that
started the war and they were the ones tho^" tore up everything.
Vfty not let them fix it back themselves.
Q:
Where would they get the money to fix :it back?
A:
(Mrs. Hartley)
Where did they get all the money to buy all that
equipment for the war?
�36
Q:
Well, that is right.
A:
(Mr. Hartley)
I think to let them whup theirselves, that would
teach them a leason.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students.
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school.
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1965-1989
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Scanned by
Wetmore, Dana
Equipment
Hp Scanjet 8200
Scan date
2014-02-25
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with William and Elizabeth Hartley, June 11, 1973
Description
An account of the resource
Elizabeth Hartley was born in Arnold's Branch, North Carolina in 1900 and lived on a farm where her only job was to collect herbs and dig roots. William Hartley is the son of Elizabeth Hartley.
Mr. and Mrs. Hartley both talk about growing up and childhood activities such as picking herbs, but they both agreed their childhoods were mostly hard. Mr. Harley talks about playing instruments like the organ and his interest in music, while Mrs. Hartley discusses her hobby of quilting. They both reminisce about what it was like living through the Great Depression and such as using electricity for the first time in 1953 and seeing their first car in 1922.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Weaver, Karen
Hartle, William and Elizabeth
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
6/11/1973
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
36 pages
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
document
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
111_tape73_William&ElizabethHartley_1973_06_11M001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Triplett, NC
Subject
The topic of the resource
Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century
Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century
Depression--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County
Elizabeth Hartley
farming
Great Depression
herbs
homemade remedies
instruments
Quill Weed
quilt making
quilts
roots
sawmill
schoolhouse
Triplett
William Hartley