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Oral History Project
Interview Conducted By: Bradley McMahan
Interviewee: Michael McMahan-US Navy Veteran
March 11, 2011
Interview Transcript
Bradley- Ok Uncle Michael so this is an interview for Dr. Judkin Browning's American Military
History class and it's being taken place in Black Mountain, NC and I'm Bradley McMahan and
his is my uncle Michael McMahan and Uncle Michael when and where were you born?
Michael-! was born in 1951 in Asheville, NC
Bradley- What branch of the service were you in?
Michael- I was in the Navy
Bradley- What was your rank while in the Navy?
Michael-My fmal rank was aviation ordinance, third class.
Bradley- Where all did you go on duty?
Michael- I went into boot camp in Orlando, FL , from there I went to ordinance school in
Jacksonville, FL, from the there, I went to Alameda, CA, which was my home port during my
first cruise I went from Alameda to Hawaii to the Philippines to Hong Kong to Japan and then
back to CA, back to Alameda. Then on my second cruise I went to San Diego and to San Diego
to further train and I went to again Hawaii, the Philippines, Hong Kong, and Singapore and then
finally Bremerton, WA.
Bradley- And what was your specific duty usually while on your cruises?
Michael- During my first cruise I built bombs from 250 pounds up to 2000 bombs to load on the
planes
Bradley-Ok and are you considered by the Veterans Administration a Vietnam Veteran or just ...
Michael- A Vietnam Veteran yes
Bradley- And did you join the Navy because it was your choice or were you drafted?
Michael- It was my choice
�Bradley- And where were you living at the time you enlisted?
Michael- In Black Mountain
Bradley- What was your driving factor behind it?
Michael- During that time I was ... restless, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I was attending
Asheville Buncombe Tech College. During that time I was going ok where is my life going. I
grew up listening to the stories of my uncles, my father's about all the great places they had seen
in the military and that really appealed to me.
Bradley- And what made you choose the Navy?
Michael- You get to see the world. And fortunately I didn't realize the world was 75% water at
that time.
Bradley- What was it like when you first joined, coming from such a small town in Black
Mountain, you really were on the whole other side of the world?
Michael- Your first experience is always boot camp which is ... quite a bit different from waking
up to your mother asking you to get up nicely ... ! saw a lot of things I never thought I would see.
I was excited. Jacksonville, FL, I had only seen the ocean a couple of times before that and
California I had only seen it in the movies. So it was a great time, it was very exciting.
Bradley- Did you enjoy boot camp or is it ...
Michael-No way
Bradley-Or is it pretty terrible?
Michael- Well you adapt
Bradley- Did you ever regret your decision while in boot camp?
Michael- Oh several times ... several times
Bradley- What do you remember about specifically about boot camp?
Michael- Uh the rigid structure, the numbness of time going by so slowly, of having to pause for
toothpaste, for a tooth brush, I uh sometimes it was the brutality of people getting slapped in the
heads with clipboards and different things, so yes it was not like around where I grew up.
Bradley-What made you finally pull through it?
Michael- Pull through it. .. time ... and that...
Bradley-You just get used to it after a while?
Michael- You get used to it.
Bradley- I've heard you say before you'd watched a lot of John Wayne movies and wanted to go
to Vietnam. Did they talk about Vietnam much in boot camp or was it just. ..
�Michael-No, no they did not talk a lot about Vietnam ... in boot camp a lot of that is just getting
your mind right.
Bradley- So after you went to boot camp, your first assignment was where?
Michael- I went to Jacksonville, FL for aviation ordinance school, that's where I learned how to
build bombs and missiles ... and how to work both and how to do trouble shooting on weapons
systems.
Bradley- And then from there it was off to the west coast?
Michael- From there I was transferred to the USS Ranger ... which was an aircraft carrier, which
had more people on the ship when it was fully loaded than my hometown.
Bradley- So after you went to the USS Ranger, did you enjoy your ... bomb making or.. ?
Michael- Well my first duty on the Ranger was mess cooking which in the Navy unless you're
ranked is what you do. That's where you cooked. I told you the story of meeting your Aunt
Janelle. When I met her at night my job was cracking 1200 eggs ... scramble eggs. Uh ... the
bomb we when out to sea .. .it was bomb making was assembly process it was just like working a
assembly line, screwing things together. And was it enjoyable? No it was work. You worked
twelve, thirteen, fourteen hours and then you would probably stand four hours other duties.
Bradley- When you go on leave, did you ever get a chance to come back to Black Mountain
much, or were you solely on the West Coast?
Michael- I got to come home uh ... twice ... twice ... maybe three times. In the military you get 30
days leave ... so I got to come home before I went to California and then I got to come home
before I was going to head to Vietnam the second time
Bradley- Did you ever get home sick at all on the west coast?
Michael- Uh ... yes ... yes ..l met your Aunt Janelle. You miss family. You know uh people grow
up while you're gone.
Bradley- Once you ... got out to sea did you find pretty monotonous out on the sea. Did you ever
get really bored out there?
Michael- You got uh ... again on my first I was down below decks, I might not see .. .l was
working days down below, I wouldn't see sunlight twenty days, twenty five days. So I stayed
pretty busy when you got time all you want to do is eat and sleep. Umm but uh in down time,
you got bored. It's not today ... you've got all the video games, you got all those things, there
isn't all that type of entertainment. You read a ton of books. You'd stand in lines in read books.
You'd stand in line to eat. You stood in line to do everything.
Bradley- So after you got back off your first cruise, you were wanting to get a Vietnam
assignment?
�Michael - I had been, ever since I had gone on the Ranger, about every couple of months, I
would put in for Vietnam land duty or be stationed. I primarily wanted to be a door gunner on a
helicopter.
Bradley- What was the major changing force and did that happen or. .. ?
Michael- Well, I got my orders, I was put to Cameron Bay, Vietnam ... transferred off the
Ranger, went port for survival school at North Island and San Diego, CA for survival school. At
that time Nixon started pulling troops out of Vietnam and my orders got cancelled, so I stayed in
San Diego for about a month and then I got orders to report aboard the USS Enterprise, which is
a nuclear carrier.
Bradley- Now were you disappointed that you didn't get your Vietnam assignment?
Michael - Absolutely
Bradley- And what appealed to you so much about Vietnam?
Michael- To me, John Wayne movies
Bradley- So none of the bad news reports and anything that ever came back didn't scare you at
all or phase you?
Michael- They actually enticed me.
Bradley- So once you got on the Enterprise, did you find that more enjoyable than the Ranger?
Michael - Uh my duties changed . . .! stayed in the bomb division I worked in the missile
division .. . ! worked on the flight deck. So I did get fresh air .. . sunshine. That was more
enjoyable, yes.
Bradley- Did everybody still talk about Vietnam much while you were on the Enterprise and if
maybe you guys would eventually get to go, or did you pretty much accept that your orders had
changed?
Michael - I pretty much accepted that.
Bradley- You said when the Enterprise sailed out you went through the pickets, what was that
like? Did you feel anything? Were you angry at the people that were trying to do it or ... ?
Michael - It was odd feeling because a lot of them were my age. At the time you were in San
Francisco, Almeda was right off San Francisco and you would go down town and you would
wear your uniform and people would take and there would be protests ... and you were like ok
I'm going overseas and there' s a missing piece. At that time it was angry and were pulling out,
just watching people, the helicopters would hover over the protests little boats and flood them so
they couldn't stop us from leaving. Now I look back at it and I have mixed emotions. They were
right about a lot of things, the protesters were. A lot of boys died needlessly there.
Bradley- Did you know anybody personally that had gone to Vietnam and gotten killed from
Black Mountain, or that you had met, or Naval buddies?
�Michael - Let's see did I know anybody ... personally that went to Vietnam. Yes I knew some
people that went to Vietnam and you know that came back and talked about the good stuff and
then they had uniforms, they looked sharp, all this type of thing, they talked about all their
adventures . .. but there were several from Black Mountain killed.
Bradley- So when you were on the Enterprise, what was the most eye opening experience you
had?
Michael- .. .1 was on the flight deck, there was a F-4 coming in with damage and it got about
two hundred yards from the ship and exploded ... another two hundred yards and it had landed on
the ship, I would have been toast.
Bradley- Was that the first casualty on your boat or had you seen them hit the water before that?
Michael - I had seen right when I went on my first cruise, I saw an airplane, he came in, the tail
hook broke, plane went in the water, it rolled, the pilots ejected and broke their necks .. .I also
saw I guess on the Enterprise, on the flight deck, there was a prop plane that transported mail and
parts and that type of thing, I had thirteen people aboard, it took ... machinery broke it was
carrying the back, it dropped in the sea killing thirteen people ... and that was just part of life.
Bradley- Did it freak you out at fust? I don' t know if it was the fust death you had really seen
but. ..
Michaei-...Did it freak me out? That's a good question . ...there' s a curiosity about it ... you
know at that age you don' t ... you don' t think it's going to happen with you. If it does you' ll go
out in all the glory you know. Go in the retirement home.
Bradley- ... What was your favorite port you went in to?
Michael - ... uh they were all unique. They were all unique and unless you visited them, they
were exotic, they were nothing like you would ever see in Black Mountain, beautiful scenery,
interesting people ... growing up in Black Mountain, working at the service station , you always
had interesting people, so I was always fascinated with interesting people and their cultures ... so
there was not one particular, I would say was the one.
Bradley- Did you enjoy all the time you spent on leave and stuff and in ports? Was it almost to
foreign to enjoy at some points?
Michael- No ... it was never too foreign. I mean you only go around once, so you try and see it
all. You know when a kid from Black Mountain gets to see all this exotic stuff.. . you know the
capitols of the world. You grow up in school and read about them and how exotic they are and
all that, then you find out most of them are just people.
Bradley- Did you ever ... at what point did you realize that you weren' t going to .. . did you decide
whether you would make a career out of it, or what point did you say this is fun now but am I
going to keep doing this after this?
Michael - Well I got married while in the military .. .very high rate of divorce, especially with
Navy at that time because a cruise lasted about nine months ... and then when you were home you
would have sea trials so you weren't home that much so marriage became a real problem and
�also there was sometimes the boredom factor, there's a lot of that, when you're not, when you're
not making missiles or bombs or whatever, it can get boring like anything else.
Bradley- So when you came back in off that last cruise and you had seen the world and
everything were you excited about being done, or did you feel like you were leaving a little bit of
you behind on those ships?
Michael - ... I was very excited to get out. I was coming home. At that point we working in the
Enterprise had gone into dry dock in Bremerton, so all we were doing was chipping paint. I was
very excited. I had a brother that I wanted to see grow up. Best part, big part in the hand. It was
a lot of those types of things that you miss and when you get back home on the flip side ... you
come home and people hadn't been through those experiences, you're different. When you talk
to military people that have seen the world, they have a different view than someone that's
say .. .local. When you join the military, you do whatever see as much of the world you can.
Bradley- So did you do .. .it was four years?
Michael - Four years, yes.
Bradley- And after your four years did you look back and say that that it was well worth it or did
you think you could have maybe been happy without it?
Michael- That's a very loaded question ... first of all it changed my life forever, I met my wife,
set a lot of things into motion ... so that's good. The flip side ... set a lot of things in motion ... a
lot of things change you can't say what I'd have done ifl stayed in school, got my head on
straight and become the attorney I thought I might be one of these days ... but you can't look at it
that way. You really can't.
Bradley- So I'm guessing that you definitely came out with honorable discharge?
Michael - Yes
Bradley- You're ready to move on with the rest of your life and once you got back in Black
Mountain, did you think that, that restlessness had kind of been cured, that you had seen what
you wanted to see, or did it almost just make it harder to be back in a little town now that you
had been to had been to Hong Kong and the Philippines .. now your back to two stop lights.
Michael- .. .I had a job one time, I was a cop here ... to turn off the stop lights(laughter) ... no I
enjoyed being here but I always missed the excitement of seeing the world ... and today I still
want to see the world.
Bradley- And .... once you got out did you think that the Navy made a you more driven with the
structure it had given you ... you said you were kind of restless when you went...just a teenage
kid that didn't really know what he wanted to do ... do you think it really focused you in for the
rest of your life. Some military people say it changed them for the better and some say it
changed them for the worse ...
Michael - It focused me, I grew up in there, accepting more responsibility that was a real
positive .. .I think it was all in all a positive. It turned out to be a positive experience. There were
people I know that went in there and it didn't turn out to be a positive experience for them.
�Bradley- Did you keep in touch with any of the people you were in the service with or when you
got on the plane back, you were on the plane back?
Michael - I was on the plane back.
Bradley- What did you decide to do career wise after you left the military and made that
decision?
Michael- When I come back l. ...this was during a recession in 1974 .. .1 was fortunate enough to
get a job as a policeman. I had a wife to support and jobs were ... not that many of them ... plus I
got to drive a car fast ... so as policeman I knew I needed education so I went back to AB Tech to
finish that and then ... my son was born and then two and a half years late, we moved back to
Oregon .. :out to Oregon, not back.
Bradley- Do you think any of your Navy experience on the west coast, made you want to go
back to the west coast or was that more of a total non military related decision? Or do you think
had you been in Black Mountain, the west coast would have just been another place?
Michael - I think ... if it hadn't been for the military I wouldn't have been exposed to the west
coast. I wouldn't have had the opportunity ... ifmost people go to the west coast, they're there for
a week. The Navy gave me a home there ... where you blend in with the local, you know where to
go to have fun, you know those types of things. There's beautiful places all over the country,
drove across country and all that, there's some very fascinating places, I love the west coast, I
love the east coast, but Black Mountain's home.
Bradley- And once you were on the west coast, you got into the banking industry. Do you think
anything you did in the Navy helped you with the banking?
Michael - Uh ... no actually it put me behind. The reason I say that is at my age people in banking
already had their four year degree, so I was competing against people with a degree. Uh .. .I was
fortunate enough to get a job and work my way up through the company.
Bradley- Do you think .... you went on to be pretty successful in the banking ... do you think once
you got past the four year degree set back and the age difference with some of the people, that
the structure you gained from the Navy helped your drive at all to get to the top of the corporate
ladder or was that just who you were?
Michael- That's just natural ... get it from parents ... my father ... my brother is successful I was
successful .. .ifi had the drive in the Navy, for the example to work on the flight deck, you had to
have drive. It was an automatic given that you had to prove yourself to move up to that level.
Bradley-... Since you've gotten older and experienced some of the benefits of the VA hospitals
and stuff, do you think that that is a very good prospect. ... or selling point I should say of joining
the military for people that don't have a lot of money potentially or to have access to that for the
rest of their lives. Did you take advantage of the GI Bill went you went back to AB Tech?
Michael - What I found looking back and even back then the military and I talked to you about
this one time the military is a way people see of getting their education paid for. The GI Bill was
the most equalizer when it come out of anything happening after WWll all of a sudden it wasn't
�just the rich kids that could go to college, it was the blue collar workers son or the blue collar
worker. That' s the most equalizer; everyone looked at it that way. Unfortunately there' s also a
price to be paid for that. Not everybody comes back from war with all their limbs or the same
mental as when they went in. You can go into the VA hospital and you can see men that have
seen things that no one should have to see. If you go to the VA hospital and look around, most
are trained killers ... at one point in their life, they were trained killers and now a lot them its
impacting them.
Bradley- So when you see these recruiters and the posters that you get your college paid for,
your medical bills for life, you know prescriptions are cheaper ... free .. .they make you feel like
essentially you' re going to live a very covered life for the rest of your life. Do you just kind of
look it and laugh, like it' s kind of a croc?
Michael- It' s first of all when you come, unless you retire you're not under the medical plan.
And there' s some provisions, for example now if you get out ofthe service and you' ve had
combat duty, then you get two years insurance coverage down at the VA, you don' t get three
years, you get two. Unless you get injured, then It's a whole different story. So .. .it' s not quite a
croc but . .. .
Bradley- There ' s a lot of :fine print. ..
Michael- A lot of :fine print, remember they' re there to do a job, they're there to get you in. For
a lot of people it' s the right decision and for a lot ofpeople .... no, it's generally if you look at the
mixture you can go over to the VA now, most are high school graduates or less, most of them
there weren't in the best jobs in the world, you know they worked in the mills, blue collar when
they come out, they had done all the right things, but never made a whole lot of money just
working in the mill.
Bradley- So I guess the tell all question for the whole thing, is looking back now is do you think
that you joining the Navy was a good decision or do you ... if you would have not done do you
think you would be the same person you are now and everything would still be ok?
Michael - I have to answer that in two ways. First of all you don't know what'll happen if you
hadn' t joined. If you change one thing in your life, you change everything. I'm sitting here today
with family, everything is good ... There' s people down at the cemetery that never made it past
my age on account of Vietnam or another war. There' s .. .we have an uncle that fought in WWII,
he came back physically alright but he was never mentally right, he lived that war the rest of his
life, he lived into his late 70' s, early 80' s. So that's the first part of my answer. I can' t change
anything because I'm here so I can't judge. The second side, would I advise someone going in?
First of all it would depend on what their goals were and all that. My answer would be no. If it's
there just to get an education, there' s other ways to get an education. It' s to unequal between the
poor boys, the blue collar boys, the minorities going in, just trying to make it up the ladder.
While you have the other group who because it is an all volunteer, they don' t have to go in
because they have the money to stay out. So in four years, they have their degree, the other kid
comes back out of Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or the next thing, and they' ll be alright or maybe
not. So why take that risk?
�Bradley- Well I think we've covered about everything and thank you for everything and that
concludes this interview on March 11 , 2011 in Black Mountain, NC between Bradley McMahan
and Michael McMahan, for Dr. Judkin Browning' s American Military History class at
Appalachian State University.
�
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/e6bae362c605e1ed0a03f0611c0f1888.mp3
80a0280bfaf7d5aa6d62de1cce8c33bb
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Title
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Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers.
Copyright Notice:
Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC).
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
McMahan, Michael
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
McMahan, Bradley
Interview Date
3/11/2011
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
0:31:27
File name
2013_063_McMahan_Mike_interview
2013_063_McMahan_Michael_transcript
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Michael McMahan, 11 March 2011
Creator
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McMahan, Bradley
McMahan, Michael
Source
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<a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a>
Rights
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Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.
Extent
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9 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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Sound
Subject
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Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Veterans
McMahan, Michael
Personal narratives, American
United States
Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Michael McMahan is interviewed about his service in the US Navy aboard the USS Ranger. He spent the majority of his time as a mess cook at the bottom of a ship, and was never stationed in Vietnam.
aviation ordinance
Black Mountain
Cameron Bay
cruise
Enterprise
GI Bill
Michael McMahan
US Navy
USS Ranger
Vietnam