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An account of the resource
Dean Williams describes his service as a Russian linguist working in Karamursel, Turkey. He was drafted after he finished his undergraduate degree, spent a year in Monterrey, California, studying Russian and then was sent overseas. He describes the work as "boring" but living in Turkey expanded his mind and allowed him to see from a different perspective.
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Text
Lawrence Ryan Ziegler
American Military History
Dr. Judkin Browning
March 13t 11 , 2010
Interview Transcript- Dean Williams, March 1Ot\ 2011
Ryan Ziegler- Alright, this is Ryan Ziegler here with Dean Williams on the 1Oth of March at
about 10 past 2. We are in Special Collections of the Carol Grotnes Belk Library, on the 4th
floor, and it is only Dean and I that are present here in the interview.( ... ) Mr. Williams, can you
please state the branch of the military in which .... in which you served?
Dean Williams- I was in the Air Force.
RZ- OK. And what rank?
DW- Sergeant.
RZ- OK. How long where you in?
DW- ( ... ) 4 years.
RZ- OK. ( ... )Were( .... ) let's see( .... ) were you drafted, or did you enlist?
DW- Both. I finished( ... ) My senior year in college I finished my last exam, went to check my
mail , and there was my draft notice. And at that point (long pause) I decided( ... ) well some time
after that, I decided to enlist in the Air Force rather than go into the Army.
RZ- OK. Alright, where were you living at the time?
DW- When I was drafted ... ?
RZ- Yes.
DW- I was in Erskine College in Due West, SC. And I had come up( ... ) I got caught in the first
draft lottery, and because I was in college, I still had my deferment. But your deferment was
good for one college, and for four years. And so my four years were up, and I had a very low
draft number. I think, anything below 100 and you were, you were sure of being drafted, and I
think, if I remember correctly, I think my number was 54.
RZ- OK. What year was this?
DW- 1971.
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�RZ- 1971. OK.( ... ) Is there any reason that you chose the Air Force?
DW- I had several friends who had gone into the Air Force, and( ... ) they felt like( ... ) after( ... )
after talking to them and some other people, that( ... ) the Air Force took better care of its troops
than the Army did, out in the field( .... ) so( .... ).
RZ- OK. That's a good reason.( ...) Can you say anything about your boot camp or training
experiences?
DW- It was Basic Training, it wasn't really a boot camp. I forget how long it was, it was
supposed to be( ... ) they've( ... ) they have radically changed it, they've lengthened it, and the Air
Force now has a combat component in basic training, we did not have that. ( .. .)See, I went in, in
October( ... ) no, wait a minute( .. .) in Sep ( .... )first of September( ...) and, by the middle of
November, I think I was out of Basic Training. So, it was a lot of time spent marching and
drilling, a lot ofPT, a lot of time waiting in line, filling out forms . It was( .... ) a very quick and
in-depth induction to military culture.
RZ- Alright. OK, so what was your job in the Air Force?
DW- I was a Linguist. After Basic Training, I was sent to( ...) the Presidio of Monterey,
California, to the Defense Language Institute, where I studied Russian.
RZ- OK. How long( ... ) How long where you in that process?
DW- Just a little bit less than a year.
RZ- OK. And( .. .) Let's see( ... ) How did you( .. .) How did you, I guess, utilize that training?
DW- Well.. .. after language school, we went to Goodfellow Air Force Base in Texas, for
technical training, and then, I was sent to Turkey to serve as a Linguist ( ....) at a listening post,
basically.
RZ- OK. Can you say anything about, maybe a couple of your most memorable experiences?
DW- Actually, it was pretty boring. The work was very boring, actually( ..... ) memorable
experiences, I think the most memorable experience was trying to get used to the( ...) to the
schedule. We worked four swing shifts, and then four graveyards in four days, and had three
days off, and your body was constantly trying to adjust, and by the last graveyard, we were in
pretty bad shape, cause we( ... ) it's hard to sleep during the day and there's always stuff going
on. I think that the first set ofmids that I had to work were pretty painful( .... ) but as far as the
work goes, it was pretty tedious and pretty boring, it wasn't much( ...) I'm sure some people had
exciting things, but we didn't.
RZ- (Laugh) Alright. OK( ... ) Let's see( ...) So( ... ) So you were basically listening to people talk
in Russian?
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�DW-Yes.
RZ- OK. Well that's pretty cool.
DW-Well, I guess it could have been, but( .. .) like I said, it was pretty dull stuff( ... ) I worked
with some( ... ) some really good people, and( .. .) made some friends that I've kept up with since
the 70' s. And then, probably the most memorable experience was actually living in Turkey. We
lived on the economy; I didn't have enough rank at that time to live on base. We found a( ... ) a
nice place at the end of one of the towns, and it was quiet and while there were Americans in the
( ...)in the little community, it was mostly Turks. And we found the Turks very hospitable, and
the( ... ) where we were living there was( ... ) we were on the Bay oflzmit, so we spent ... we
swam until we found out that the base had closed the swimming area( ...) because of
contamination in the bay( ...) but then there were mountains and all behind us, so we did a lot of
hiking and tracking around in the mountains( ...) we enjoyed that, plus( ... ) everywhere you go in
Turkey, there's all this history there( ...) everybody passed through there, the Hittites, the
Byzantines, the Romans( ... ) the Seljuk Turks, the Ottoman Turks, the Greeks, so it was( ... ) you
know, there were a lot of ruins, but there were still, there were buildings that had incorporated
( ... )like there were Mosques that had Greek Columns in them, supporting the roof, so that was
always interesting. Plus the( ...) the food was just( ... ) was just amazing, and for someone who
hadn't travelled that much to suddenly be plopped down into such a rich culture was( ...) it was
quite an experience.
RZ- Alright. Sounds interesting, were you able to keep in touch with your family?
DW- Oh, yes( ... ) I was over there 2 1/2 years, but we sent voice tapes, ( ...) this was, of course,
pre-email days, so we sent cassette tapes back and forth, lots of pictures and( ... ) we wrote letters
and my family were great letter writers, as were my wife's, so there was a lot of communication
back and forth.
RZ- OK. Let's see( ... ) you said something about- about how people entertain themselves, I
guess, but( ... ) in Turkey, great place to travel around, I guess.
DW- It was, and it was a fairly inexpensive place to live, and public transportation, while
dangerous, was relatively cheap and you could get anywhere in the country. There were( ... ) of
course, the big busses that ran between the cities, and then there were the small mini busses that
ran to the villages, and then of course taxis. Some people bought cars and I didn't have enough
nerve to really drive on( ... ) on Turkish roads, but it was( ... ) it was pretty easy to get around( ... )
and then there were( ... ) of course there were things on base, there was( ... ) there was a movie
theater, where( ... ) we had, you know, a different movie every night it was just( ...) there was a
base radio station, there was a base bookstore, there was a camera shop, there was an audiohobby shop and guys had a good bit of money and nowhere to spend it, so everybody had just
top of the line audio systems, so( ... .) and then, every few months you could put in your what
they call morale flights from Turkey to( .. .) I believe they went from( ... ) I don't know if they
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�flew from our base, or you had to go to Istanbul, but they were flights to Europe, for guys on
leave, so( .. .) the service members and the dependents could fly on that flight, so a lot of people
went to Europe and travelled on leave. So, there was stuff to do, a lot of people were miserable.
It was a hard place for( .... ) if you were single, because of the culture it was( ... ) it was hard there
was no( ... ) very little interaction between( .. .) between like American men and Turkish women
( .. .)and, some people were very unhappy there, I think, a lot of guys got married, 18, 19, came
over( .. .) divorce rate was pretty high over there, if they had to live on the economy, it was( ... ) it
was hard for people without( ... ) I don't know how you say this, life-skills, dealing with a foreign
language, dealing with a very different culture, dealing with( ... ) a very different attitude, like for
example the town we were in had a water supply, and they'd come around and read your water
meter wrong. My water-meter was broke. It was broke when we moved in and it was broke two
and a half years later, and I always paid, they had the same water bill, and every time we went to
pay the bill, I'd tell the guy that our water meter was- was broke, and he would say "Yes, know
it's broke," and the next month, I'd tell him the same thing, so, a lot of people were frustrated by
the sort of( ... ) the difference in the attitudes like that, and then it bothered some Americans that
the Turks stared at them. Well, of course they would, you know, I mean, just drop foreigners
down into your- into a small town and you're going to be stared at, and, I think some of the
American customs amazed them, like Christmas trees. But, anyway( .. .) I forget what your
question was, I hope I answered it. I kind of wandered off, there.
RZ- Well, it was( .. .) it was, lots of information in there, anyways. (Laugh)
DW- Sure.
RZ- What was your( ... ) what was your experience with officers and fellow soldiers?
DW- I had very little contact with officers. We were on-we did shift work, and( ... ) we were
isolated from the main base, and there was( ... ) there was a flight commander, usually a
lieutenant or a captain (cough) and that was about the only officer I saw on a daily basis, unless I
had to go down on Main Base, then of course, it was crawling with officers. So I really didn't
have that much contact with( .. .) I did make one friend who was an officer and,( ... ) it was at his
own risk that he was friends with me because officers and enlisted men were not supposed to
fraternize, of course. But, he and his wife had been on some of the same trips and same places
that my wife and I had, so we got to know each other. And we're still- we still keep in touch, in
fact( ... ) he's been to see us twice since then( .. .) no three time, since then, so( ... ) And the like I
said, I made some real good friends while we were over there, some very interesting people. I
met people from all over the country. We had neighbors from, let's see( .. .) one fella was from
the Philippines, another was from Texas, one was from Oklahoma, one was from Michigan, so,
we were ( .. .) we had a lot of different parts of the country brought together there and, it's like
anywhere, some people you like better than others, some people you socialize with, some you
don't. So, at work everybody( ... ) well you had to get along, there was no option about that, and
then after work you associated with people you liked and avoided those you didn't, so( .. .)
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�Fortunately, I didn't have to live on base. That was a real plus, I didn't have to live in the
barracks.
RZ- Yeah, I bet.
DW- So I had a( .. .) we had a little place off-base which was nice. So, I avoided a lot of that
mess.
RZ- Well , that's good. Was it because you were married that.. ... ?
DW-Yes.
RZ- OK. Alright. Do you think there's a higher( .. .) out of curiosity, do you think it was a higher
rate of married guys or single guys?
DW- I'd say, there's probably more single guys.
RZ-OK
DW- I can't say for sure( .. .) I don't really know( ... ) I really don't know( .. ... .. ) probably more
single guys. That I encountered.
RZ- OK.
DW- There was( .. .. ) there was a high school on base that( .. .) dependents from other places,
other bases in Turkey were sent there to go to high school. There was also an elementary school
and a kindergarten there. So there were a lot of children, American children on the base.
RZ- I wouldn't expect that.
DW- Oh yes, it was( .. .) and a lot of people had babies while they were there.
RZ- Interesting. Well , do you recall your service ending? I guess what I really want to know is,
what did you do afterwards?
DW- Well, it kind of came to a screeching halt, while we were in Turkey( .. .) Congress was
really upset with- with the Turks going into Cyprus, so they passed( ... ) I don't know if it was an
embargo, or( .... ) I can't remember exactly the legislation. And so, the Turks closed the base, and
they shut down- they shut down our operation, and- and people who had( .. .) a lot of time left on
their enlistment were shipped to other bases, and those of us who were .. . had a few months left
just stayed there, and they found jobs for us, like I worked at the Post- at the base Post Office for
several weeks and then at the base Marina. They just had( ... ) there were so many of us. We
worked every other day at the Marina, and the boss, the fella who was working the Marina said,
basically if you need days off, just let him know, and take 'em, cause .... we did have stuff to do
we had an oil slick move in one night, so we spent a good bit of time cleaning that up from the
base beach and shoreline, but,( ... ) anyway, so I ended up basically( ... ) you know( ... ) not doing
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�(... )well, like I said, you know, working at the Marina, getting boats ready for winter, and then
we just- we did a lot of day trips, during that time. And then the Turks took over the base.
RZ- OK. What year was that?
DW- Seventy-( ..... ) '75 or '76, I cannot... I'd have to look at that.
RZ-OK
DW-It might have been '76. 1976.
RZ- Alright. Did you( ... ) did you go to( ... ) after you got out of the service, did you go( .. .) I
guess, go to work somewhere else, or go back to school, or. ... ?
DW- I went back to school. I went to( ... ) University ofTennessee on the GI Bill.
RZ- OK. What did you study?
DW- Library Science.
RZ- Library Science. And( ... ) Well, you said that( ...) you said that you've kept in touch with a
lot ofthe guys that you served with.
DW- Some of them, yes.
RZ- OK. Even now?
DW-Mm-hmm.
RZ- OK.
DW- One of them( .... ) one of them from Texas has put up a website with a lot of pictures from
when we were in Turkey, and then, somehow a friend of his went back to Turkey just a couple of
years ago and took pictures of how the village is( ... ) the town is now. And we're thinking
photographs of the base( .. .) since it's a Turkish base, there's no getting on it, of course. But from
the hills up above the base, they took some pictures, and you can see some of the changes. The
village has really grown. Well, this wasn't a village, it was a small town. But it's just really
grown, it's changed a good bit.
RZ- What was the name of the village?
DW- Karamiirsel.
RZ- Karamiirsel?
DW- It means "Black Prophet," or "Gloomy Prophet." And while we were there, we had some
friends that had a little girl. And she was a beautiful little blonde-headed, cherubic baby, and
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�they named her "Kara." And the Turkish women were just really upset with them for calling her
that, that such a beautiful child would be given( ... ) would be called gloomy or( ... ) or dark.
RZ- Interesting. Alright, did you join any veteran's organizations?
DW- No, I.. .. No .
RZ- OK. And, so, you studied Library Science?
DW- I did.
RZ-And ( .. .)and you have been a Librarian.
DW- I have worked( ... ) I have worked in the Library( .... ) since 1978, I guess.
RZ- Alright. I guess( ... ) one of the last things I want to ask is( .. .. ) I guess, how( ... ) how would
you say that your service affected your life since then?
DW- ( .... )It's had a major impact( .... ) it did a real good job of getting me away from home,
getting me out. Definitely out of the comfort zone( ... ) you know, the( .. .) that( ... ) small-town,
small-college, living in the same house for years( .... ) exposed me to a( ... ) a very different way
of life, a very different mentality and mindset, and people who've never been in the military just
don't understand it. ( ... )And( ... ) we( ... ) we were supposed to( ... ) go on a( ... ) we were supposed
to go on Flying Status. We were supposed to be( .. .. ) work off an Airborne platform. And( ... ) so
they sent us to survival school, so I spent nearly four weeks at( .. .) four weeks( .. .. ) three and a
half weeks at Fairchild Air Force Base in Spokane, Washington in December, and that was a real
experience. It was( ... ) for me it was a good experience, because I realized how much I could do
and, realized what my limits were, and got to see some really different country up there( ... ) the
first time I ever saw serious snow like that. And then of course the foreign travel. Of course( ... )
Monterrey, California was just was( .. .) very different from the( ... ) from the East Coast. ( ... )
Learned a lot of discipline. I learned( ... ) we went to school 8 hours a day and then came home
and studied anywhere from 4 to 5 hours a night. I learned to appreciate( ... ) a lot of things. And
then( .... .) and of course the foreign travel. We had( ... ) we had guys that desperately fought( ... )
well, didn't fight, but did not want to go overseas, and I was terrified I'd get stationed somewhere
in the States, but, I was glad to get Turkey. So, it worked out really well , but no, it was a very
( .. .. )for me, it was a very positive experience. Like, I said it was( ... ) you know( .. .) I don't know
that I would have joined, ifl had- .. .well , I might have, given the( ... ) given the employment
situation, at that time, but the draft certainly pushed me into it, and so I went ahead and joined
the Air Force, so .... But, like I said, it was( ... ) it was an interesting experience.
RZ- Sounds like it. Well, before we conclude the interview, is there anything else that you'd like
to add, any ..... ?
DW- I can't think of anything else( ... )
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�RZ- Alright. Well thanks for doing this interview.
DW- (Laughs) You're welcome.
RZ- And, I guess that concludes this interview.
DW- Is that what you needed?
(Recorder shuts off)
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�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers.
Copyright Notice:
Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC).
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Williams, Dean
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Ziegler, Ziegler
Interview Date
3/10/2010
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
0:26:54
File name
2013_063_Williams_Dean_interview
2013_063_Williams_Dean_transcript
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Dean Williams, 10 March 2010
Creator
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Ziegler, Ryan
Williams, Dean
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a>
Rights
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Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.
Extent
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8 pages
Language
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English
English
Type
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Sound
Subject
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Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Veterans
Williams, Dean
United States
Interviews
Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Dean Williams describes his service in the Air Force as a Russian linguist working in Turkey. He was drafted after he finished his undergraduate degree, studied Russian in Monterey, California for a year, and was then shipped overseas. He describes his work as "boring" but living in the small town of Karamursel was eye-opening and a very positive experience.
Air Force
basic training
Cyprus
Dean Williams
Erskine College
Karamursel
linguistics
Monterey California
Russian
sergeant
Turkey