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50
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/24e044f8a7054f4880670ac96560a93a.mp3
e86dfe73e20164198f74f058dac2df27
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Title
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Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers.
Copyright Notice:
Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC).
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Thomas, Richard L.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
None
Interview Date
None
Duration
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0:12:03
File name
2013_063_Thomas_RichardL_interview
None
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Richard L. Thomas, undated
Creator
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Thomas, Richard L.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.
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None
Language
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English
English
Type
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Sound
Description
An account of the resource
Richard L. Thomas enlisted in the US Navy in 1953 and served in the Korean War. He was trained to work in the Combat Info Center where a lot of the work was focused on avoiding submarines.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Thomas, Richard L.
Korean War, 1950-1953
Veterans
Personal narratives, American
United States
Interviews
1953
Combat Info Center (CIC)
Cuba
Guantanamo Bay
Korean War
Lieutenant
patriotism
Richard L. Thomas
submarine
US Navy
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https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/016ad9b4879f4bba6acb5247cbb5dcb2.pdf
3358cf76746340071551dc9b982fd3fb
PDF Text
Text
Paul Borowicz
HIS 3823-101
Transcript of Oral History Interview with Ken Shabhaz.
March 13th, 2011
Greensboro, NC
Borowicz: So, you were in the Air Force, correct?
Shabhaz: Yes, I was in the Air Force from 1968 to 1973.
Borowicz: Okay, just for the record, we're interviewing Ken Shabhaz. It's March 13 1\
and we're in his office in Greensboro, NC. As he stated, he was in the Air Force from
1968 to 1973.
Shabhaz: Yes, '68 to '73.
Borowicz: So, roughly, the end of the Vietnam war era?
Shabhaz: Exactly.
Borowicz: Okay, were you drafted or did you enlist?
Shabhaz: I had four draft notices, and went with the Air Force.
Borowicz: So, weren't drafted by the Air Force?
Shabhaz: Well, the army drafts you, but I was trying to get into the Navy. The Air Force
had openings first, so I ended up in the Air Force.
Borowicz: Okay.
Shabhaz: My two armed guards took me to my last physical, or else they would have put
me in the Marines.
Borowicz: Oh yeah, I would have gone for the Navy as well. Where was the farthest you
were stationed from home?
Shabhaz: The farthest from home was Sacramento.
Borowicz: So, that was nice that you got to stay in the country.
Shabhaz: I got to stay in the country in the middle of the Vietnam war, so it was great.
Borowicz: What were your duties during that time? I know you dealt with money and
payroll at some point.
Shabhaz: Well, at first they tried to make a navigator of me, then a pilot out of me, but
they were unsuccessful there, so I ended up a supply officer. I was stationed at
Montgomery, Alabama for most of my tour, where I was the base supply officer.
Borowicz: What did that entail?
Shabhaz: Well, the base supply officer was in charge of anything that was expendable,
so all the parts and pieces that go on at an Air Force base, other that the furniture and
equipment, I was responsible for.
Borowicz: So, what kind of rank do you get for that?
Shabhaz: Well, in the Air Force, it was a matter of so long of a period of time, so when I
went in, I was a Second Lieutenant. I did the 90 day "wonder crash course" at San
Antonio.
Borowicz: What's that?
Shabhaz: Well, that's the basic training for officers. Officers have a couple of routes.
Sometimes, folks are in ROTC or some other activity, but otherwise, they have a basic
training that's 90 days, and you come out a Second Lieutenant. That' s the route I ended
up going, in the middle of winter, in San Antonio, Texas.
Borowicz: Had you already had a college degree before that?
�Paul Borowicz
HIS 3823-101
Shabhaz: Yes. Generally, at that point you had to have a college degree, so I had already
graduated. And, as I said, I already had a couple of draft notices, so I was picking and
choosing where I was going to end up.
Borowicz: I remember you telling me a story when I think you were in charge of payroll
or something ....... when you counted money so long one day, ---Shabhaz: Well, yeah. A lot of interesting things happened. I ended up with special duty
and we had to give a surprise cash count, and it was the day they did payroll at the
finance office. I was a finance officer, so they wanted me to go in there and count the
money.
Generally, at that time, they paid most of the military in cash. So, there was seven
million dollars in cash in small denominations, that me and two other NCO ' s counted for
three hours, and sat there and thumbed through cash.
Borowicz: Wow! That's a lot of cash. I had remembered that you said your fingers
turned green after awhile.
Shabhaz: Yeah, fingers and hands turned green from handling all that money, and
besides that, we had a lot of angry people waiting for their paychecks.
Borowicz: Now, did you have to go through the regular boot camp as well, for regular
training?
Shabhaz: No, no training for the officers was kind of the same, similar objectives as the
basic training of the enlisted but, how do I say this, kind of more book learning kind of
stuff rather that the physical stuff. The Air Force was by far one of the better ones to
choose, at that time anyway.
Borowicz: So, more of classes than training?
Shabhaz: Yeah, classrooms and more of management type things, and how the Air Force
and the military is structured. It' s kind of general information. It kept us kind ofbusy.
On the drill pad, we spent one or two hours a day. That was always lots of fun.
Borowicz: That's one of the things I never understood, the formation drillings. It doesn' t
seem to -----Shabhaz: Well, the idea there is basically discipline.
Borowicz: Obedience?
Shabhaz: Yeah, it's a kind of discipline working as a unit. As officers, we took turns
leading the group. Ifthis was an enlisted group, they' d never be leading the group, so we
ended up taking turns to lead and march a whole squad. I don't remember how many
guys were in it but, when you turned around and saw a lot of people coming at you, right
on your heels.
Borowicz: So, you said this was in San Antonio?
Shabhaz: San Antonio is where I started my basic training. That was 90 days there, then
I was scheduled to go into navigator school, which was in Sacramento. So, they gave me
a couple of weeks off. I went home for a week or so, and then drove from Detroit to
Sacramento and reported out there for navigating school.
Borowicz: And you were stationed on Sacramento for most of the war?
Shabhaz: No. I spent about nine months there, and didn' t pass navigation school, so I
ended up out of navigator school. Then they wanted to send me to pilot school, from the
back seat of the F-4 to the front seat of the F-4. I said, "No thanks", and that' s when they
decided to send me to Montgomery, Alabama, to be the base supply officer there.
�Paul Borowicz
HIS 3823-101
Borowicz: What did that entail? Were there a lot of people involved in the war effort in
Montgomery, because I feel that most ofthe stuff would be on the West Coast?
Shabhaz: Yeah, Montgomery, Alabama was a cushy job to get in the middle of Viet
Nam. It was one base, one command. It was the Air War College, basically officers in
the Air Force that were the rank of Major, that wanted to become Leutenent or higher,
then they basically spent six to nine months there at Maxwell Air Force base to get their
master's degree. Most of them ended up getting their master's degree in business
administration. So we really didn't have any airplanes assigned to our base, there was
over 800 officers there when I got on the base. I had to share my BOQ room for the first
two weeks with a one star general cause that was the lowest rank they could find for me
to share a room with. So it was a rather unusual place to be. I ended up being in charge of
70 personnel, most of them civilians at that base because once again it wasn;t a heavy
war kind of effort. So it was not a bad place to spend the next three years.
Borowicz: Doesn't sound bad at all.
Shabhaz: No it wasn't, I was most fortunate. I ended up, they sent me to Supply School in
Denver, Colorado in the peak of ski season, I'm not a skier but I ended up being the
designated driver when we went to the ski resort. So that was an interesting three months
there. And shortly after returning from that Linda [his wife] and I got married in april of
1970.
Borowicz: Did you meet her in college before?
Shabhaz: Yeah, we had met in college and we were engaged. Part of it when you're
looking at Vietnam is you're uncertain of where you're going to end up at. But when it
looked like I was going to end up at Montgomery, Alabama we decided to get married.
Borowicz: So I assume you guys were able to keep in touch pretty well since you were
here.
Shabhaz: Oh yeah
Borowicz: And with your parents and everything?
Shabhaz: Yeah, I mean writing. Back then most of it was still written communication,
cause telephone was too expensive and the Internet hadn 't come around yet.
Borowicz: Yeah no cell phones or anything yet.
Shabhaz: No, no cell phones just yet.
Borowicz: So most of the stuff, like the supplies, you did on the base, was that for food
and uniforms? Like suppliesShabhaz: It covered everything. It covered mechanical parts although we did have a
large fleet of aircraft assigned to the base, it was a popular place to get your aircraft
repaired. The Air National Guard for example, was real big back then in the South, so
some planes would be brought in from out lying areas, because we had the capacity to
repair them.
Borowicz: I didn't know the National or State Guard had planes.
Shabhaz: Oh yeah, the National Guard had planes, cause we were sitting at that time in
the South, and a lot of the concern was from Cuba and other places as well. It was a
popular place to bring a broken airplane, because we had two of the best golf courses in
the country. So, if you had to spend a couple of days in one place, you could always play
golf.
Borowicz: Yeah, that sounds really nice. What was the food like on the base?
�Paul Borowicz
HIS 3823-101
Shabhaz: The food, well, for an officer. . .I generally ate at the officer' s club, which was
great. It was like going to Greensboro ' s Country Club and having dinner all the time.
Borowicz: So, you said the people there were one star generals or above?
Shabhaz: Well, they were majors or higher, as far as the officers were concerned.
Borowicz: So, most people there were officers?
Shabhaz: Well, the majority of the military were officers, and there were a lot of
civilians as well. Most of the running of the base was done by civilians. I'm not sure
what our population mix was, but we probably only had 25 to 30% military, it was
mostly civilians. Then, the air college itself had a lot of military itself, but once again, it
was major rank or above. That's what all the Generals were around for, it was basically
the teaching. They teach classes, they' d come in and teach maybe a six week period, and
then move on to something else. That's why the officers quarters ended up with a lot of
Generals in them. Then, once Linda and I got married, we basically moved off base,
that' s what we did. So, I had to learn to eat her cooking.
Borowicz: You were stationed there for the rest of your service.
Shabhaz: Yes, ended up there for three and a half years, so was fortunate that part of the
program they offered on the base was from Auburn University, so I signed up for that as
well, and ended up taking some of my classes on base and off base. I had so much to do,
but managed to go to school full-time and be in the military.
Borowicz: Sound like a busy schedule.
Shabhaz: It worked out very well. In fact, when the war started to wind down, they
wanted to give me an early out, but I said "You can't, I still have a semester left". And at
Maxwell, at that point, once again, it was the base that ended up with the prisoners of
war, you know, the POW' s, the one' s that finally got released after the war, because once
again, it had so many amenities, it was pretty much like a country club.
Borowicz: Did you come into contact with any of them, or no?
Shabhaz: No.
Borowicz: Just a different part of the base?
Shabhaz: No, well that happened just after I had gotten out. The war was just ending
when I was getting out, and the prisoner release was three to four months after that.
Borowicz: So, you said it was a voluntary leave at the end?
Shabhaz: Yeah.
Borowicz: Just stuck around and got your education?
Shabhaz: Right
Borowicz: What did you get your degree in from Auburn, did you say?
Shabhaz: I ended up with my Masters Degree in Economics, basically. I had gotten my
Bachelors Degree from Aquinas College in Business and Accounting, so what they
offered was a government administration or business administration kind of classes, so I
took those.
Borowicz: And you said that, or like when you were released, I guess released was a bad
word ...
Shabhaz: No, that' s not a bad word.
Borowicz: Well, when you were done--Shabhaz: Finished the tour
�Paul Borowicz
HIS 3823-101
Borowicz: So, when you finished the tour, was it hard for you to go from that kind of life
to civilian life, or was it like you already said, you were living offthe base with your
wife?
Shabhaz: No, the hard part at the time, was that there were a lot of other folks getting out
of the military at that time, so it was a job situation. So, we spent the next four months
after we got out of the military, traveling around doing job interviews. I got out in, what
was it, December, and so we'd find somebody to pay room and board to for a night or
two, and we'd travel the South in the middle of winter doing job interviews and ended up
in Greensboro, a lot by chance.
Borowicz: Well, I'm glad you're here.
Shabhaz: Thank-you.
Borowicz: Do you still have any close friendships with anyone you served with? Do you
keep in contact with anyone?
Shabhaz: Well, there was one individual that turned out to be most unusual. I don't
know if you remember Father Ken Boyack?
Borowicz: No.
Shabhaz: He was a Paulist priest, and it turned out that he was stationed in the military at
the same time. He was in a different section of the supply area at the same time, in the
equipment area, the heavier items. But, it turned out that he and I kind of knew each
other, you know, we socialized, but then I don't know, what was it, ten, fifteen years
later, he shows up at St. Paul's Catholic Church as a priest.
Borowicz: Wow, was he a chaplain in the service?
Shabhaz: No, he was just another supply officer in the service, and he decided to become
a priest, after or during his service, I'm not sure. I'm not too sure of the situation. But,
he's the only one from military service days I've ever kept up with.
Borowicz: Where's he at now?
Shabhaz: He's up in D.C. We talk when he's down here. We get Christmas cards, and
do that kind of stuff. He's in charge of a lot of their outreach programs ....
Borowicz: Are you in any Veteran's organization of any type?
Shabhaz: No, not really. The Boy Scouts is the closest thing I guess, but I've not
maintained any kind of interest in that.
Borowicz: Well, I think that's just about it. Thank you so much for your interview
tonight.
Shabhaz: You're welcome, it was a pleasure. Thank you Paul.
�
https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/files/original/4cee11b31bc5557d53b378fd22c140e6.mp3
037152c569a2e485cee56bbf5cb58bd4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers.
Copyright Notice:
Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC).
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed.
Shabhaz, Ken
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview.
Borowicz, Paul
Interview Date
3/13/2011
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
0:17:18
File name
2013_063_Shahbaz_Ken_interview
2013_063_Shabhaz_Ken_transcript
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ken Shabhaz, 13 March 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Borowicz, Paul
Shabhaz, Ken
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
5 pages
Language
A language of the resource
English
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Subject
The topic of the resource
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Veterans
Shabhaz, Ken
Personal narratives, American
United States
Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Ken Shabhaz recounts his service in the Air Force as a base supply officer in Montgomery, Alabama. He served for a few years in the Vietnam War and then went back to school for Economics. He never was stationed outside the United States but was moved around to several different cities.
Air Force
base supply officer
Ken Boyack
Ken Shabhaz
Lieutenant
Montgomery
National Guard
POW
US Navy